6/21 Update - Official Discussion thread

74 posts / 0 new
Last post
Use this thread to discuss today's DDI Update.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
I'm just hoping the new marketplace is better than the old one. It burns my soul everytime I use the f*@&#@ thing. I'm also looking forward to the new racial ability bonuses. Gotta get me a warforged artificer ASAP.
I too am looking forward to the new Marketplace.

Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

OSR Fan? Our Big Announcement™ is here!

Please join our forums!

Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

Chomping at the bit to test out the new Marketplace. 

When do the updates usually roll out?  I'm thinking 9:00am Pacific... about now!   But maybe it was noon... can somebody please remind me, so I don't have to keep loading and then closing the CB.  ;)

Can we get an update on Monster Builder? On April 19th we were told:
Looking Ahead
Now that we have synched up our digital and paper releases, in May we will have the normal Dungeon and Dragon content update as well as the content from The Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond. We also have some big changes coming to the inventory system of the Character Builder in a future update, and a substantial Monster Builder update that adds a number of new features and functionality. We'll keep you informed through forum posts and broadcasts when we have specific update details and dates.



That information has not been provided. There was mention two months ago that some answers would be tracked down. No word since.

I mentioned here just how painful things have been. It has been nearly half a year since we were told that we were about to get an online Monster Builder "similar in functionality to its classic, downloadable counterpart."

Adventure Tools again feels like it has dropped off the face of the earth, with no support. Has the vision changed for the software? Should we start looking to third-party solutions? Can the Community be given some guidance as to what has happened here?

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

New Compendium (83) is up.
Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"
Thanks Paolo for the update !

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Huzzah, finally rolling out new stuff even though there's a bug.  Thank you, definitely the right decision.

... still waiting to get a charisma bonus for my deva plsthx... 
ooh Compendium is the new hawtness, nice update.  now to go poke it 'til something breaks 






what? i promise to bug report it!  
 

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

Character Builder (238) is live.
Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"

The new 'Get Equipment' screen is a huge improvement over the old.  I can see weaons with which I'm not proficient, and there is no sub screen to buy things.  It's all handled with tabs now. 

The one thing I've been expecting that we haven't got yet is the breakdown of hit and damage for all of our powers.  I'm not sure where they'd display it, and I know that it's already there for powers that we can SELECT.  I know these things take time, but I need to be sure that MBAs, RBAs, etc are calculated correctly.  Right now, if you can't choose it on the '6: Select Powers' screen, you can't check the math.  Is this even on the radar? 

Why is the Mage listed as Mage (Arcanist) instead of Mage (Wizard) and the Thief is listed as Thief (Scoundrel) instead of Thief (Rogue)?
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
Why is the Mage listed as Mage (Arcanist) instead of Mage (Wizard) and the Thief is listed as Thief (Scoundrel) instead of Thief (Rogue)?



It's a known issue, we'll fix it with the next release.
Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"
Why is the Mage listed as Mage (Arcanist) instead of Mage (Wizard) and the Thief is listed as Thief (Scoundrel) instead of Thief (Rogue)?



It's a known issue, we'll fix it with the next release.


Sounds good.  I was just confused when I saw it.
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!

Alright so first impressions of the equipment changes:

1. I like the paper doll for equipping. I assume this was the solution for the off-hand problems you've been having. Barring any bugs I haven't seen, this is cool. I think it would have been nice to keep the old way as well as the new screen since I didn't have to click on another tab to equip stuff but it's a pretty minor quibble. I think the most important thing is to get this stuff working as expected.

2. The most obvious change is the sell section at the bottom. This is a very nice feature now. It's exactly where I would expect it to be and I don't have to click another screen to find it. I think it would be cool if we could manipulate the data sheet directly though. As above, this is a minor quibble and as long as it works, I'm cool.

3. The search. I have been a very big proponent of search. I really like the advanced option given. Again, I'm not a fan of it being a seperate tab. I like the tab added outside of the market though so I don't have to go in there.

4. I'm disappointed the marketplace itself doesn't seem to have changed much aside from the removal of the sell screen and the addition of the search. I'm not sure what I was expecting but as it is, it feels... clunky. I'm not entirely sure how to fix it. It might be cool to have links on the paper doll equip page corresponding to the different slots. Those links can lead directly to the section of the marketplace they correspond to. I think that's a more intuitive interface.

So all in all, the changes were very good. My minor quibble (which comes with a mild suggestion) is that there are too many tabs all over the place that I have to navigate to. I think an easy solution would be to keep all the tabs as is (for more in depth and easier to navigate manipulation of equipment) but also allow the data sheet that shows the equipment to be editable directly. So if I want to equip a piece of equipement from my master inventory listI can click the "equipped" cell and choose where to equip it from a dropdown list or if I want to I can adjust the quantity directly and then a dialog box pops up that asks if I want to "sell or remove" for lower numbers or "Buy or Add" for higher ones. If you can do this across all of the various lists and charts (including the paper doll to marketplace link I mentioned above) you would have a very robust and easy to use equipment section.

It's a known issue, we'll fix it with the next release.


You mean it's not a cheeky poke at the "Essentials is invalidating 4e!" conspiracy theorists? ;)
"There's an old saying that all it takes for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing. I've always had a problem with that. If you do nothing to oppose evil, then how are you 'good'? To turn aside and allow evil to flourish is to collaborate with it. You ask for mercy. You claim you have done nothing. That 'nothing' is why you deserve no mercy." - Lorian Karthfaerr, drow paladin of Avandra Robin Laws says I'm a Storyteller:
Show
You're more inclined toward the role playing side of the equation and less interested in numbers or experience points. You're quick to compromise if you can help move the story forward, and get bored when the game slows down for a long planning session. You want to play out a story that moves like it's orchestrated by a skilled novelist or film director. Storyteller 92% Tactician 83% Method Actor 75% Butt-Kicker 67% Power Gamer 67% Specialist 58% Casual Gamer 8%
The "level range" filter is broken.  If I use the default 0, 0 I'd expect to see only non-magic items, but that does not happen.  I even tried 0, 1 but still got what seems like the entire list of magic items.
It's a known issue, we'll fix it with the next release.


You mean it's not a cheeky poke at the "Essentials is invalidating 4e!" conspiracy theorists? ;)

That would be hysterical if that were the case.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
So did they roll back any of the Templar changes? What did they re-update?
I'll build one but I have to admit that I didn't pay attention to most of the changes when they happened so I'm not sure if I can be very helpful (I don't play clerics).
So did they roll back any of the Templar changes? What did they re-update?

Turn Undead seems to be back to original except that the damage scale is the same as the update. 
So did they roll back any of the Templar changes? What did they re-update?

Turn Undead seems to be back to original except that the damage scale is the same as the update. 



Heh, cool. I wonder when they'll post the update-to-the-update article. I expect soonish. 
The templar was re-examined and some of the changes were altered. The updated PDF will be posted soon (I'll add a note here when it's live). I'll leave it to all of you to decide whether "rolled back" is the correct description. 

We asked Shoe and Jeremy to provide some context for their re-examination of the templar, and here's what they provided:

Q. How much effect did forum feedback have on the decision to make additional changes to the templar?
A. We look at forum and email feedback for articles each month. The templar article generated a significant amount of feedback, some of which pointed to valid reasons for softening or rolling back a few of the changes. For example, a number of players are using the Tactical Warpriest paragon path to serve as secondary, or even primary, defenders in their games. The feature was already “defender-lite,” since the mark applied only when the cleric hit with an at-will attack. Because changing this feature would dramatically affect those players, we determined the change was not worthwhile at this time and undid it. The feedback also pointed to a desire for new cleric options, specifically ones that broaden the class’s nonhealing capabilities. The new article “Battle Priest Options” is part of our response to that desire.

Q. What design considerations guided the latest version of the class?
A. As we discussed in the podcast a short time ago, we recognized that, in some cases, we’d changed certain powers (such as turn undead) in more than one way and could possibly achieve our game-balance goals by changing fewer elements in such powers. For some of those powers, we rolled back changes.
 
Q. The remaining two Class Compendium articles, on the scoundrel rogue and the arcanist wizard, are now marked as playtests. How will that work?  
A. These articles will function like other playtest articles. The playtest articles will go up, we’ll look at the feedback, and then we’ll make any warranted changes to the articles before they are made official.

Steve

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

It's a known issue, we'll fix it with the next release.


You mean it's not a cheeky poke at the "Essentials is invalidating 4e!" conspiracy theorists? ;)

That would be hysterical if that were the case.



Agreed!

Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

OSR Fan? Our Big Announcement™ is here!

Please join our forums!

Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

Looks like the Compendium is giving me an error, when i try to Examine a Class.

Type in Ardent, Wizard, ect and use the Class Filter, then try to view it, and you get an error.
We're putting the team on it.

Steve

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

We're putting the team on it.

Steve



See also Paladin for the same error being thrown up.

As well as mage, psion,


Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
This appears to be the same bug that's affecting rituals, which means it will also be fixed with next Tuesday's interim update.

Steve 

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

Just wanted to throw in a "thanks for the communication".  Also throw some thanks toward the designers... I'm much happier with the revised Cleric changes... even/especially if the Divine Oracle nerf in the compendium (but not the earlier document) makes the final document.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Not sure if this is new to this update or not, but in the Compendium, selecting "Items" and then applying any sort of filter to it (like for example if I wanted to see all wonderous items level 1 to 10, or just items 1 to 10 etc or any other options in the filter) returns no results.

You can still search within "Items" for items with a given word (without a filter), but applying any sort of filter causes it to return zero results.

Other categories (paragon paths is what I tested with) seem to work just as I would expect (and as they have in the past).

I'm about to file a bug report with this but thought I'd put it here too.
Hoping it's not too soon, but here goes. If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at?

Drew Sheneman, an award-winning, nationally syndicated editorial cartoonist, sent us this:


 

Steve

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

That is awesome.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
EPIC
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

Hoping it's not too soon, but here goes. If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at?

Drew Sheneman, an award-winning, nationally syndicated editorial cartoonist, sent us this:


 

Steve



hahahahaah lol Thanks Steve, I needed that! 

~Teo
Thanks Steve for the update and the laught. Smile 
This Adbendum is a bit better too.  Our Thanks to R&D for the revision.

Now can't the Battle Cleric Options Article  !

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

i have a bug its telling me i have 1 more skill to pick but wont let me
Awesome so far!  I'm really liking what the DDI Team did with the Marketplace and Finally we have the much anticipated Ability Bonuses applied to the remaining PC races!! I'm definately a happy Camper about this! Cool

Unfortunately, while testing out the Cleric (Templar), it won't let me pick Alchemical Items for a Cleric that takes Alchemist instead of Ritual Casting and our game is tomorrow (yup 1st encounters then mostly non-encounters/mixed home game)!  The ritual caster rituals list pops up instead.  When I did the opposite (just to test), it showed up as houseruled when I was able to add an alchemical item from the inventory tab, but still gives me a ritual list



~Teo

After further testing picking the Achemical Feat prompts me to pick Rituals, and when I do, it doesn't Houserule it.

~Teo
Is anyone else getting chainmail item names in red text (ie. cannot use) on a Templar (Cleric)?  I can still make the character equip it though, so it's weird.

Racial Modifiers on the Character Sheet are Listed as "@" instead of numbers.  I've checked: cleric, multiclass cleric, and hexblade.  So, it doesn't seem to be a cleric thing.



~Teo