New Standard - What do you expect?

127 posts / 0 new
Last post
Well since Jace and Stoneforger is out of standard in less than two weeks, standard will see something different - But what?

I expect Valakut to raise - in popularity at least
I expect pyromancer twin's rebirth - now that we don't have twin blade and splinter twin will be played without jace.

On the other hand i also expect a hell of a lot aggro, as many decks couldn't match the late game of jace and couldn't get in fast enough on the rest of caw blade.

I also expect many new/old engines that never saw their best side as jace was simply better. This will include Dark Turtelag and Pyromancer's Ascention.

But what else? Just come with input you have for the new standard will shape out. 
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
Did we need yet another thread for this? :/

EDIT: Dark Tutelage is awful. It's bad in Aggro because it costs too much and does nothing and you don't play a long game in Aggro, so Sign in Blood outclasses it. It's bad in Control because Control's best cards cost too much so you lose too much life.

In both cases, it is also harder to get rid of than Confidant was when the life loss gets too much. 
Did we need yet another thread for this? :/


Yes, as the other thread is about them being banned, this should be about how the new meta will shape up.. that seems different enough for me.
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
All Shamburglar, all the time.
Slave of Tibalt. Currently trading for foils of my bro. PM me. Tarmogoyf on Twitter. Follow me. Team GFG Guns, Fame, Glory Those that require a sig for the ego simply haven't had enough kind words thrown his or her way. Currently looking for prerelease Plains! People who have mailed me rares:
Show
Malpheas: THANK YOU FOR THE FOIL TIBALT, YOU BEAUTIFUL GUY, YOU! Suudsu2200: Armageddon! Sèance, Dominating Licid, Words of War, Gaea's Anthem, Momentous Fall, Nyxathid PM me to make it happen. Your username will end up here, as the cards you sent me. I reserve the right to order your usernames by the cards I liked the best. Oh, and if you send me some Islands in the package, I'll sign them and mail them back.
Oh, yeah i expect to a lot more green. as they have birthing pod, green sun's zenith and fauna shaman.
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
White Weenie.  Capable of packing anti-exarch/twin plus an infinite life combo.  Looks like a pretty solid choice right now.
White Weenie.  Capable of packing anti-exarch/twin plus an infinite life combo.  Looks like a pretty solid choice right now.


Folds to Pyroclasm, which both Kut and Exarch [can] run.

Oops. 
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
I'm sure niche is cackling somwhere, because MBC or a mostly-black-control variant is (vomit) looking like a viable deck, at least against an established meta. slash a little blue for preordain + countermagic, add in decent disruption and some card draw, and you've got a deck that's going to handle valakut + exarch twin pretty easily, leaving the sideboard for anti-aggro tools (phy crusader, BSZ, etc.)

Aside from that, GW weenie looks decent, as does birthing pod (maindecking anti-valakut tools). Grand Architect might see some tournament play. And there's always vamps, KRed, and RDW.

I don't think tezz is actually going to be making a splash yet, largely because it's a tap-out midrange deck, which is exactly what combo decks prey on.

Photobucket
I'd definitely look out for control decks exploding in performance - if not in popularity - right now. Counterspells, instant-speed draw and some all-round answers. Should be easy to prey on the combo decks that's definitely going to explode in popularity.

@Razorgore: Which anti-Kut tools are you thinking that Pod decks should include? Act of Aggression seems like a solid MD card right about now, but other than that, most anti-Kut cards seem like they definitely shouldn't be played MD...
Photobucket Banner by zpikduM - typo also by zpikduM. =) Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Currently playing Standard: TurboJund Legacy: Zoo Block: Hahaha, good one! 1000th post on August 28, 2009 at 6:08PM
i know people are saying UB control is dead.... but i'm actually look at it as a possible idea now that the JTMS is dead.  beleren, sea gate oracle, into the roil, and jace's ingenuity, along with an improved counter suite are all going to pick up the slack, as UB should have these things going for it:

A) UB control has an advantage over other blue/control decks

B) UB control has a lot of anti-combo/valakut tools, rumored to be the 2 big decks to emerge on top

C) UB control can board heavily against aggro/creature decks and has a proven history of being able to compete

titans become playable again, so grave titan might be good once more in this meta.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

i know people are saying UB control is dead.... but i'm actually look at it as a possible idea now that the JTMS is dead.  beleren, sea gate oracle, into the roil, and jace's ingenuity, along with an improved counter suite are all going to pick up the slack, as UB should have these things going for it:

A) UB control has an advantage over other blue/control decks

B) UB control has a lot of anti-combo/valakut tools, rumored to be the 2 big decks to emerge on top

C) UB control can board heavily against aggro/creature decks and has a proven history of being able to compete

titans become playable again, so grave titan might be good once more in this meta.



If UB Control becomes playable again, I'll be and get rid of my
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
How could it NOT be playable? You basically have answers to everything. I was begging for BF to work on a UB Control post ban and he was like this Justin bieber went emo kid. 

BRING ME A UB CONTROL DECK DAMMIt 
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
Already working on/been working on UB builds. You'll get a final product in short order.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

Shamburglar!!!
Slave of Tibalt. Currently trading for foils of my bro. PM me. Tarmogoyf on Twitter. Follow me. Team GFG Guns, Fame, Glory Those that require a sig for the ego simply haven't had enough kind words thrown his or her way. Currently looking for prerelease Plains! People who have mailed me rares:
Show
Malpheas: THANK YOU FOR THE FOIL TIBALT, YOU BEAUTIFUL GUY, YOU! Suudsu2200: Armageddon! Sèance, Dominating Licid, Words of War, Gaea's Anthem, Momentous Fall, Nyxathid PM me to make it happen. Your username will end up here, as the cards you sent me. I reserve the right to order your usernames by the cards I liked the best. Oh, and if you send me some Islands in the package, I'll sign them and mail them back.
Can UB go almost-all Instant speed? Seems good to never tap out against things like Valakut and Twin. I think the answer is no, but it's worth trying to be the metadeck that beats the Top 2 but loses to other things.
Can UB go almost-all Instant speed? Seems good to never tap out against things like Valakut and Twin. I think the answer is no, but it's worth trying to be the metadeck that beats the Top 2 but loses to other things.



Don't you just scoop to Vengevine?
Slave of Tibalt. Currently trading for foils of my bro. PM me. Tarmogoyf on Twitter. Follow me. Team GFG Guns, Fame, Glory Those that require a sig for the ego simply haven't had enough kind words thrown his or her way. Currently looking for prerelease Plains! People who have mailed me rares:
Show
Malpheas: THANK YOU FOR THE FOIL TIBALT, YOU BEAUTIFUL GUY, YOU! Suudsu2200: Armageddon! Sèance, Dominating Licid, Words of War, Gaea's Anthem, Momentous Fall, Nyxathid PM me to make it happen. Your username will end up here, as the cards you sent me. I reserve the right to order your usernames by the cards I liked the best. Oh, and if you send me some Islands in the package, I'll sign them and mail them back.
MGE I assume will be coming back with Kut for a time at least.
I truly and honestly believe that a Tezzeret/Venser deck will be a top contender.  The interactions between the 2 and the artifacts are unbelievable without jace and stoneforge around.
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
I truly and honestly believe that a Tezzeret/Venser deck will be a top contender.  The interactions between the 2 and the artifacts are unbelievable without jace and stoneforge around.


Maybe at a local level. I can't see it beating Twin and Kut reliably. 
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
I truly and honestly believe that a Tezzeret/Venser deck will be a top contender.  The interactions between the 2 and the artifacts are unbelievable without jace and stoneforge around.


Maybe at a local level. I can't see it beating Twin and Kut reliably. 



Agreed, too many slots, not enough disruption.

Also, MGE is a bad deck, and will continue to be one.


If you want to run Tezz, I think it's fine, but you need to build is black heavy with disruption. I think I'll sit back with Tezz-infect for a while, since Tezz's Gambit is a valid replacement for JTMS in that deck.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
White Weenie.  Capable of packing anti-exarch/twin plus an infinite life combo.  Looks like a pretty solid choice right now.


Folds to Pyroclasm, which both Kut and Exarch [can] run.

Oops. 



White weenie has brave the elements and refraction trap. But I dont think WW is fast enough to beat valakuts main plan.  Aggro decks do NOT fold to merely pyroclasm, but the combination of undisruptable main plan AND delaying effects like clasm and walls. This is why clasm is stronger in valakut than Exarchtwin. Inferno titan is also gg.

ontopic: I do agree that first tournaments after the bannings will show a lot of valakuts. Shrine red is propably the best aggro deck. Tempered steel is a viable option but will fall short before valakut goes off or plays clasm/slagstorm. MGE is a bad choice in aggro-filled meta, even though it has a chance against valakut itself due to being faster ramp. Infect trips over its own feet as always. Shaman-vengevine is too slow for valakut. Elves doesnt fare well as long as shrine red is present. UB Tezz, I dont think it has weapons to slow down valakut long enough. White quest remains a viable albeit unconsistent option.

edit: Forgot vampires dammit, a strong contender. Its problem is that it isnt as fast as the other 3 strong aggros (red, steel, elves) so it has to rely on its disruption being effective.
"And the word my father taught me that evening, the word meaning 'the strongest', was mage." - Tezzeret the seeker, Test of Metal
I'm gonna look at mono white. I've been advocating white low costs for a while now, although it did run Mystic, that's easily replaced. Use stuff like Kor Hookmaster, Honor of the Pure, Hero of Bladehold, Brave the Elements. I was running a version with 20 lands up until a few days ago.

Decks
Standard: Mage-Blade EDH: Rafiq of the Many

The format will look like it was just prior to Caw/Blade's appearance, with the exception of Twin being in the format. Many serious players who quit will return to the format with crappy decks saying "With Caw/Blade gone it will be my turn to shine" said people will be knocked out in the second round, because that's the way these people roll.

One deck will stand out among the others and will rise to become the next 500 lb gorilla in the room. Everyone will bitch and moan and the format will suck again. UB Controls will return, nearly a similar decklist as before -JTMS. UW Control will be back as well, but it will be the grandparent in the room ("Back in my day..."). Valakut will be on top for a short while, but also will fail to reach former glory because everyone will be gearing to play against it. The color White will vanish from decks for the first few weeks, as SfM was the dominating reason to run it.

I have no problems, I could just use a bit of time.
Valakut will not last to the aggro game plan. Since Scars is full released aggro has gotten the tools it need's to be ridiculously fast out the gates.  With Bloodthrist coming for M12, and U looking like it's going to get some decently fast CA engines. I expect to see another UW aggro deck that will behave like Caw-Blade but be a completely different list. I do not think it will be the top deck, but I think it will crush any chance of Valakut being the top deck.

Vamp's will be ridiculously strong again. It's already one of the strongest deck's, and races just as fast as the Puresteel Octane build's from block constructed. It's a good time to be a standard player. Everything can hit the ground running to see who is the fastest now that the dragon has been slain by the great overlord's of spell slinging.

Yes, I'm actually excited to play standard again. Even if i can't use the SFM into Batterskull anymore. Baneslayer with a Sword is just fitting though.
As you can see, people are excited about these alternatives that simply weren't an option while Mr. and Mrs Banned were still in the room(Go on, Shoo! We dont want you here!). I know many people will be disappointed in their inability to beat valakut, but such is the nature of the beast. Valakut was not, and will not, ever be as dominating as cawblade. After all it has a chance to lose to its own bad opening hands, something that almost never happened to cawblade.
"And the word my father taught me that evening, the word meaning 'the strongest', was mage." - Tezzeret the seeker, Test of Metal
Yes, I'm actually excited to play standard again. Even if i can't use the SFM into Batterskull anymore. Baneslayer with a Sword is just fitting though.


Me too... been a really exciting morning, eventhough it meant that half of my testing has been useless.

MBC is on the rise^^ with three months of chaos, a deck well equiped to deal with most decks is going to be good... now i will just need to find something relevant against KUT.
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk

The format will look like it was just prior to Caw/Blade's appearance, with the exception of Twin being in the format. Many serious players who quit will return to the format with crappy decks saying "With Caw/Blade gone it will be my turn to shine" said people will be knocked out in the second round, because that's the way these people roll.

One deck will stand out among the others and will rise to become the next 500 lb gorilla in the room. Everyone will bitch and moan and the format will suck again. UB Controls will return, nearly a similar decklist as before -JTMS. UW Control will be back as well, but it will be the grandparent in the room ("Back in my day..."). Valakut will be on top for a short while, but also will fail to reach former glory because everyone will be gearing to play against it. The color White will vanish from decks for the first few weeks, as SfM was the dominating reason to run it.




Lol so you eliminate all of the discussed decks from contention, yet fail to specify your projection of the meta? /trollface

@birthing pod tools - maindecked leonin arbiter, acidic slime, spellskite, despise, act of aggression, and hero of oxid ridge. Obviously, you aren't going to be able to play all of them, but testig will determine which colors give the most reliable options.

As for the metagame itself... Previous posters had the right idea regarding UB control - nearly all instant-speed, including jace's ingenuity, tons of disruption, 2 maindecked memoricide, lots of removal, spellskites, with grave titan and tar pits as finishers.


Photobucket
But UB control is just a control deck, it can't game defining. But if it does becomes a tier 1 or tier 2 deck then the format should be rather healthy.

So much stuff is in the air. 
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
Just as a casual reminder MBC Sad Sac/Memo builds walked all over valakut. Run as 4/3 or 3/2 splits you almost couldn't lose to them. This same deck seems just fine against Twin decks.

And now it has some ridiculous wincons that don't have to worry about JTMS; Phyrexian obliterator and Wurmcoil Engine over G-****... simply because they eat Aggro and don't get bounced. Woo-ha. And they're ridiculously relevant against valakut.

This *might* just be a summer of darkness.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Ok here's my shameful double post:

4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Lashwrithe
2 Wurmcoil Engine

2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Duress
3 Doom Blade
3 Go for the Throat
4 Sign in Blood
3 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Memoricide

24 Swamp

SB: 3 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 3 Grasp of Darkness
SB: 3 Liliana's Specter
SB: 2 Mimic Vat
SB: 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 1 Memoricide

This feels pretty good.

You can mix up G-**** with Wurmcoils per your local meta, but I think Wurmcoil is the way to go because DoJ will be the white answer for Oblit, with Journey backup. They only have so many Journeys to go around.

At least this is where I intend to start on July 1st.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Don't even toy with obliterator - tumble magnet is coming back, and dismember + GoFor basically make obliterator a "whatever" card for a lot of decks. Grave **** is still better in nearly every way, though the lashwrithes are cute. Focus more on disruption + CA. Ragers instead of gatekeepers (at least for the main), despises instead of duress, and I'd drop sad sac entirely for possibly some spellskites (play around with spellskite against valakut, it's hilarious).

Photobucket
I don't understand why Tumble Magnet is returning back. It's marginally useful against Kut and Twin, if that. 
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
You would be incorrect to remove Sad sac for Spellskite. Spellskite against valakut? Cool i'll take 1 damage off every time you try to dome me for 3. I still lose. That is actually hilarious though every time I thought about how terrible it is there.

I don't see Tumble magnet going into the combo decks... and no one is going to add tumble magnet to interact with kut/twin because all its going to do is buy you a turn at best. If tumble magnet does pop up, wait, Duress is helpful to intercept it.

Dies to removal is a terrible argument, but the deck is using 4 Duress/2 IoK to protect the Obliterators. Plus if you're not running a combo deck the maindecked hate (sad sac/memo) removes your removal or counters. Basically anything that would try to stop your difficult to answer wincon.

G-**** is fine, I already said that. I suggested you mix and match per your meta.

Despise instead of Duress is completely incorrect. We just lost JTMS. Obliterator and Wurmcoil jump in front of aggro all day with their buddy gatekeeper. The deck above has 4 keepers, 6 instant removals, 2 Inquisition, and Obliterator+Wurmcoil to handle aggro. That's really darn good.

I don't think you thought this through, but I can almost see where you're going. You're basically using different slots to achieve the same thing I'm doing at different casting costs than you're envisioning. The end result however is you're going to be trying to win on Phyrexian Ragers and Grave Titans... which make you a lot slower when a little speed is necessary... plus Rager is just a 3cmc cantrip that will never trade with anything. Dusk Urchins were better, but not by a lot.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

If they really want to shake up the meta, they should ban Valakut the land. 

Outside of the obvious valakut list with naturalize and Gaea's Revenge main deck (to handle twin, skites and control decks right off the bat) you will see Vampires, mono white artifact aggro, twin builds that are trying to work, Black control, U/B control, W/U control, you MAY even see some people try and bring Elves back - especially if Valakut can be brought under control. And of course you will see U/B, G/B, and other versions of infect trying to get in there. Boros may attempt some return, but realistically, I don't think the meta will be willing to let it succeed.  

DCI Rules Advisor 06/15/2011

 

I never let my mind wander. It's too small to let it go off by itself

 

CCG achievements Still calls the games CCGs and not TCGs... bah, young 'uns!

Decipher games 2001 North American Continental Champion - Inaugural Hall of Fame Inductee - Responsible for killing Young Jedi CCG (really!)

Wizards of the Coast games Won my one and only Pokemon tournament using only Pikachu and Raichu in the deck - and declaring loudly "PEEE-KAH-CHUUUUU" -- true story. 

What's wrong with the current tempo Vamp's? It's fast and will get you there within 8 turn's even with bad draws. The only response would be slagstorm and day. I don't see either one of those being enough with how fast the tempo'd version of Vamp's can take over the board and win even after either a Slag or Day. I'd rather play a Persecutor with a Seer as the sac method, or a GftT.

Personally I think the Obliterator route is going to be too slow now. Everyone is going to go the straight aggro route now that Caw is gone. The control list's I have seen are two slow, and don't take care of all of the threats that Vamp's and the G list's can keep out there. The only good removal is in B now, and it's not the best for recurring critter's like Bloodghast and VV. Not to mention that W has some very good token generator that used to be only for G. Hero and Kha are both workable in WW. 

From what I can see only U/B Control has a chance.

From what I can see only U/B Control has a chance.


How do you see that, it sounds very subjective. I know that Kut and MBC will run either main or sideboard board wipes. I am quite certain that Vampires will have a hard time dealing with MBC as it is shaping. I am pretty sure that red has at least a decent match-up against vampires... and other tells that vamps really isn't that great, it is overhyped and isn't it's former standard. 


Do you think anyone could get the idea of bringing Eldrazi green back, that would be fun^^ 
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
UB control will return to the top tables, i'll make sure of that

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

UB control will return to the top tables, i'll make sure of that


I will be looking forward to it =)
How to Autocard
card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
You would be incorrect to remove Sad sac for Spellskite. Spellskite against valakut? Cool i'll take 1 damage off every time you try to dome me for 3. I still lose. That is actually hilarious though every time I thought about how terrible it is there.

I don't see Tumble magnet going into the combo decks... and no one is going to add tumble magnet to interact with kut/twin because all its going to do is buy you a turn at best. If tumble magnet does pop up, wait, Duress is helpful to intercept it.

Dies to removal is a terrible argument, but the deck is using 4 Duress/2 IoK to protect the Obliterators. Plus if you're not running a combo deck the maindecked hate (sad sac/memo) removes your removal or counters. Basically anything that would try to stop your difficult to answer wincon.

G-**** is fine, I already said that. I suggested you mix and match per your meta.

Despise instead of Duress is completely incorrect. We just lost JTMS. Obliterator and Wurmcoil jump in front of aggro all day with their buddy gatekeeper. The deck above has 4 keepers, 6 instant removals, 2 Inquisition, and Obliterator+Wurmcoil to handle aggro. That's really darn good.

I don't think you thought this through, but I can almost see where you're going. You're basically using different slots to achieve the same thing I'm doing at different casting costs than you're envisioning. The end result however is you're going to be trying to win on Phyrexian Ragers and Grave Titans... which make you a lot slower when a little speed is necessary... plus Rager is just a 3cmc cantrip that will never trade with anything. Dusk Urchins were better, but not by a lot.



The decklist you posted is never getting out of swiss rounds without losing 1-2 rounds to aggro. No crusaders, no BSZ, no vapors, no way to recover from swarm-based aggro (which is the only type of aggro worth playing). Valakut WILL be playing Koth, and despise hits basically every business spell in that deck save for STrap. The bottom line is that I don't think you're really grasping what the meta is going to look like when the bannings actually go into effect. Mark my words, Obliterator is not going to be in any successful MBC list.

Photobucket
Ya'll almost make me want to play Valakut just to prove that I'm right.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

I'm too busy laughing about Obliterator not going to be in any successful MBC lists to post a reply. Sry.

K, here's the best I can do for you.

The deck I posted has 17 'good against aggro' cards. It has 6-8 'ok against aggro' cards. Bloodghast and Sad Sac do not interact with aggro in a meaningful fashion. That's 7 cards. I didn't even count SiB because the card is just great.

I guess 24 lands don't interact with aggro. You got me. So 24 lands, 7 bad cards... Ok, 51% of the deck is bad against aggro. You are right. The deck is terrible and won't get through rounds 1-2 versus aggro.

Or we could come back to reality and realize I'm pretty good at making decks, in particular mono black. You're pretty good at sniping in a fashion that is easily defeated when responded to in detail. Phew, I love reality.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes