4th edition version of Vecna: I don't like it!

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I know this is going back some, but I was reading Open Grave the other day and I came across Vecna and his history I had forgotten how terrible they made him with regards to who he was.  It talks about how he used to help people and that made my head begin to hurt.  Why they decided to rewrite the history I don't know, but they could have done a lot better.  What do you think?
I don't care about Vecna, have never cared about Vecna, and will continue to not care about Vecna.

You don't like it, change it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Vecna in my D&D world is the lich form of a dire ferret. Or rather, several dire ferrets doing a balancing act.

Their phylactory is their water dish. 
"Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” ~Mark Twain
I know this is going back some, but I was reading Open Grave the other day and I came across Vecna and his history I had forgotten how terrible they made him with regards to who he was.  It talks about how he used to help people and that made my head begin to hurt.  Why they decided to rewrite the history I don't know, but they could have done a lot better.  What do you think?



You donot have to follow the lore to a T. I know its usually a pain when you change rules, but the lore is a whole other thing. My players and I play aorund with the lore alot....just use his old back story in your campaign. Problem Solved!

 its propaganda thats completely made up, how could you not notice this? and besides vecna used to be an annoying idiot that messed up a bunch of other campaign settings.
Vecna in my D&D world is the lich form of a dire ferret. Or rather, several dire ferrets doing a balancing act.

Their phylactory is their water dish. 




hahah pure evil!
guys i really miss the old lore about half-elves and half-orcs not having souls? is there anyway to correct this? i feel this was real essential to D&D. id also like to have  kender back? i think they were the best race. Maybe a skill challeneg could help?

In all seriousness op, how did you figure out how to like type and stuff and find yoru way onto a website.

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I know this is going back some, but I was reading Open Grave the other day and I came across Vecna and his history I had forgotten how terrible they made him with regards to who he was.  It talks about how he used to help people and that made my head begin to hurt.  Why they decided to rewrite the history I don't know, but they could have done a lot better.  What do you think?



You do realize that story about how he used to be a good guy is just the story told by members of one sect of his, right?  Are you familiar with the literary device called the "unreliable narrator"?  It's pretty much that.

You do realize that story about how he used to be a good guy is just the story told by members of one sect of his, right?  Are you familiar with the literary device called the "unreliable narrator"?  It's pretty much that.

And why should we believe you??  Should we just take your word for it? 


Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
Xun, you fail to realize something, allot of the past Vecna lore is tied to the Greyhawk setting, and the Ravenloft setting. 
THis version in the books is from the PoL version of Vecna. It is a different Vecna, in the same way that the PoL Bane is different from the FR Bane.  
You do realize that story about how he used to be a good guy is just the story told by members of one sect of his, right?  Are you familiar with the literary device called the "unreliable narrator"?  It's pretty much that.

And why should we believe you??  Should we just take your word for it? 





Considering I was awarded "The Foundation For Not Lying Honesty Award" in '97, '02, 05 and '10, yes.

Xun, you fail to realize something, allot of the past Vecna lore is tied to the Greyhawk setting, and the Ravenloft setting. 
THis version in the books is from the PoL version of Vecna. It is a different Vecna, in the same way that the PoL Bane is different from the FR Bane.  



I am very much aware of the twin brother's and sister's of the different gods and goddesses who are not related in any way.  I have never liked this no matter what edition was current at that time. 


Vecna himself would be proud of this thread.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
Vecna himself would be proud of this thread.



Yes very much so. Now only if there was that extra eye of Vecna lying around here somewhere...I could...have some major fun with that.

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Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.

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Vecna himself would be proud of this thread.



Yes very much so. Now only if there was that extra eye of Vecna lying around here somewhere...I could...have some major fun with that.




The brown eye of Vecna.  You don't want to know what powers it gives you...
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 
I just found a head on a pedestal in the corner if anyone wants it.
"Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” ~Mark Twain
I just found a head on a pedestal in the corner if anyone wants it.



Is it Vecna's by chance? I have his eye, another guy guy has his brown eye. Now just to find his damn hand!!!!
I just found a head on a pedestal in the corner if anyone wants it.

Is it a little head?  I've always wanted a little head.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 


Because it is lore? It may be bits and pieces of lore, but it is lore.

As for your original post, you have taken the obviously labeled untrue story told by some cult and assumed it was correct. Others have mentioned that before.

Really, though, I'm not surprised you don't like it. I haven't seen you say anything positive about any aspect of 4E, ever. So of course you don't like the lore regarding Vecna, even though you can change it to whatever you'd like for your campaign. If you're absolutely and resolutely opposed to making stuff up for yourself, you can use the lore given in previous editions that you did like. 
Resident jark. Resident Minister of Education and Misinformation.
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 



Are you expecting the full story of Vecna from beginning to end?  Because really, he's the ****ing god of secrets.  You should know that any story that is told about him is seeded with lies.  If you need more than the basic lore, bits of it are scattered in Dragon (the Vecna divinity article a few months back), as well as bits and pieces about where he lives and what he does in the Plane Above and Manual of the Planes books.

Or you could use the old edition flavour, whatever that is. 

Or you could make it up your own self, filling any percived gaps with your own creative spirit.

Which is, really, the beauty of a P&P RPG system.  Unlike a novel or a video game or a movie, you can change the "canon" and have no problems whatsoever.  Well, other than those few people who will probably claim you are "doing it wrong".  But they'll say that no matter what.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Okay Xun, here's what we do. We get you your own sticky. Your very own sticky! Name it "Things I don't like about 4e- Thoughts by Xun". Then, whenever something new sets a bee off in your bonnet, you can run on over to the thread and makes sure Wizards know that they are doing it wrong!
Okay Xun, here's what we do. We get you your own sticky. Your very own sticky! Name it "Things I don't like about 4e- Thoughts by Xun". Then, whenever something new sets a bee off in your bonnet, you can run on over to the thread and makes sure Wizards know that they are doing it wrong!




Hopefully we will have a thread like that soon enough before they start design on 5e.     

 
Okay Xun, here's what we do. We get you your own sticky. Your very own sticky! Name it "Things I don't like about 4e- Thoughts by Xun". Then, whenever something new sets a bee off in your bonnet, you can run on over to the thread and makes sure Wizards know that they are doing it wrong!




Hopefully we will have a thread like that soon enough before they start design on 5e.     

 



I sure hope not. Taking advice from fans on the internet? Really? While I think we have some very intelligent and reasonable posters, people like Xun are surely the vast majority. Fans are idiots; internet fans are the king idiots.
As for Vecna I do recall a Ravenloft module with him in it.   Not sure how much of that lore was lost either.
While I definately think it's true that there is alot of "stupidity" about the internet, you see the same thing all around in real life too.  I wouldn't dismiss fans as "idiots" or "king idiots" and make general statements like that quite so freely.  

Fans of anything by definition are more attached to whatever they are interested in, more invested financially, intellectually and emotionaly in their hobbies than casual players, etc.    You can get some extremes of behavior (and speech) as a result. 


That doesn't mean that fans, they are people remember, should be dismissed out of hand.  Fans represent a portion of the larger audience for whatever hobby you might talk about.  Sometimes the hardcore fans represent the general population more or less, sometimes just a niche social group. 


I guess what I'm trying to say is that fans of any hobby are more diverse than stereotypes lead people to suspect.  And blanket statements can be a little simplistic.       
I know this is going back some, but I was reading Open Grave the other day and I came across Vecna and his history I had forgotten how terrible they made him with regards to who he was.  It talks about how he used to help people and that made my head begin to hurt.  Why they decided to rewrite the history I don't know, but they could have done a lot better.  What do you think?



I need to review that, but if I recall that was most likely a lie so that people would worship him more.
I sure hope not. Taking advice from fans on the internet? Really? While I think we have some very intelligent and reasonable posters, people like Xun are surely the vast majority. Fans are idiots; internet fans are the king idiots.

Yeah, but some people just have nothing better to do in life other than to follow those fans around calling them names.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
Okay Xun, here's what we do. We get you your own sticky. Your very own sticky! Name it "Things I don't like about 4e- Thoughts by Xun". Then, whenever something new sets a bee off in your bonnet, you can run on over to the thread and makes sure Wizards know that they are doing it wrong!



Why don't you ever post something that is productive?  Taking hits at me is the only thing you seem to be able to do.
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 


Because it is lore? It may be bits and pieces of lore, but it is lore.

As for your original post, you have taken the obviously labeled untrue story told by some cult and assumed it was correct. Others have mentioned that before.

Really, though, I'm not surprised you don't like it. I haven't seen you say anything positive about any aspect of 4E, ever. So of course you don't like the lore regarding Vecna, even though you can change it to whatever you'd like for your campaign. If you're absolutely and resolutely opposed to making stuff up for yourself, you can use the lore given in previous editions that you did like. 



I guess you don't read much on these forums do you.
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 


Because it is lore? It may be bits and pieces of lore, but it is lore.

As for your original post, you have taken the obviously labeled untrue story told by some cult and assumed it was correct. Others have mentioned that before.

Really, though, I'm not surprised you don't like it. I haven't seen you say anything positive about any aspect of 4E, ever. So of course you don't like the lore regarding Vecna, even though you can change it to whatever you'd like for your campaign. If you're absolutely and resolutely opposed to making stuff up for yourself, you can use the lore given in previous editions that you did like. 



I guess you don't read much on these forums do you.


Far more than I should. By all means, prove me wrong. I can wait.
Resident jark. Resident Minister of Education and Misinformation.
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 


Because it is lore? It may be bits and pieces of lore, but it is lore.

As for your original post, you have taken the obviously labeled untrue story told by some cult and assumed it was correct. Others have mentioned that before.

Really, though, I'm not surprised you don't like it. I haven't seen you say anything positive about any aspect of 4E, ever. So of course you don't like the lore regarding Vecna, even though you can change it to whatever you'd like for your campaign. If you're absolutely and resolutely opposed to making stuff up for yourself, you can use the lore given in previous editions that you did like. 



I guess you don't read much on these forums do you.


Far more than I should. By all means, prove me wrong. I can wait.



If you are so interested then you go and find it. I'm not doing your work for you and I don't really have anything to prove to you.
Stuff
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 


Because it is lore? It may be bits and pieces of lore, but it is lore.

As for your original post, you have taken the obviously labeled untrue story told by some cult and assumed it was correct. Others have mentioned that before.

Really, though, I'm not surprised you don't like it. I haven't seen you say anything positive about any aspect of 4E, ever. So of course you don't like the lore regarding Vecna, even though you can change it to whatever you'd like for your campaign. If you're absolutely and resolutely opposed to making stuff up for yourself, you can use the lore given in previous editions that you did like. 



I guess you don't read much on these forums do you.


Far more than I should. By all means, prove me wrong. I can wait.



If you are so interested then you go and find it. I'm not doing your work for you and I don't really have anything to prove to you.


Thought so.

Care to address the rest of my post?
Resident jark. Resident Minister of Education and Misinformation.
Stuff
Are we talking about the scroll of Mauthereign?  That's dogmatic writings to justify any act in the name of their "obviously" superior god.  Now if you want his actual lore, look under Vecna Lore on page 212.



I've read that and it's only bits and pieces. I don't even know why they call it lore. 


Because it is lore? It may be bits and pieces of lore, but it is lore.

As for your original post, you have taken the obviously labeled untrue story told by some cult and assumed it was correct. Others have mentioned that before.

Really, though, I'm not surprised you don't like it. I haven't seen you say anything positive about any aspect of 4E, ever. So of course you don't like the lore regarding Vecna, even though you can change it to whatever you'd like for your campaign. If you're absolutely and resolutely opposed to making stuff up for yourself, you can use the lore given in previous editions that you did like. 



I guess you don't read much on these forums do you.


Far more than I should. By all means, prove me wrong. I can wait.



If you are so interested then you go and find it. I'm not doing your work for you and I don't really have anything to prove to you.


Thought so.

Care to address the rest of my post?



Thought so what? If you actually cared to read the posts here then you would see that I have spoken well of 4th edition.  Just like I have already admitted that like Pathfinder better and I make no secret of it.  I do like Pre-E 4th edition but there are lots of things about it I do not like.  There is no secret about that, also if there is something about 4th edition I do not like then I will say it.  If there are 27 things about the game I don't like then I will say it.  I am not one of these people who keep their head in the sand and keep my mouth shut because I am afraid of what others might say.  If you value my opinion then that's great, if you don't then that's great too. 

This is a forum about the game and how the game is judged from all levels.  If you came here to only expect praise for the game then your expectations are too high for these forums. 

The problem with changing things you don't like gets rather old when you start changing so much you wonder why they even make books.  If I don't like something then I have every right to come here and complain about it.  I don't like the way they wrote Vecna and I want to give my opinion as to why.  Giving a productive argument as to why Vecna's lore is fine the way it is is fine, but arguing about me saying nice things about 4th edition is just a waste of my time.  Either argue about the topic at hand or please don't visit my thread.
I have closed this thread for VCL review.