Threats to the Nentir Vale is AWESOME

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I must say that the last two releases have been rock solid from Wizards (Gloomwrought & Nentir Vale MV). The art in the book is mostly of high quality and has a lot of new art. I dig how the monsters are themed for the Nentir Vale. I love being able to play any of the monsters straight out of the box with the provided tokens.

Gloomwraught and MV Nentir Vale shed some redeeming light on the subpar Heroes of Shadow (that book boasts some of the worst art in 4th & the classes are essentially straightjacket essentials material).

My only complaint is actually one I feel strongly about. I HATE the darken, flip bloodied side of the tokens! They are so dark that you can no longer see the art of the monsters (Gloomwraught falls victim to this too). Plus, the naming of each token, combined with the dark art, will pretty much mean I'll never use the bloodied side. What happened with the high quality, gloss tokens from the Essentials Monster Vault?
arggghh no place near me gets it early
I am looking forward to this products arrival with glee.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
My only complaint is actually one I feel strongly about. I HATE the darken, flip bloodied side of the tokens! They are so dark that you can no longer see the art of the monsters (Gloomwraught falls victim to this too). Plus, the naming of each token, combined with the dark art, will pretty much mean I'll never use the bloodied side. What happened with the high quality, gloss tokens from the Essentials Monster Vault?

Are people really looking at it by then though?  I feel like when you introduce a monster, everyone checks it out, oohs and aahs, and then the game moves on.  By the time it's bloodied they probably have a pretty good idea of what it looks like.  But I'm really not a fan of tokens in the first place, so I probably just don't get it.

I am trying to decide if I should pick this up tomorrow or get it cheaper when it hits Amazon.

 Any Edition

I'll add a stop to the FLGS on this weekend's to-do list!
-Realize You are your own source of all Creation, of your own master plan.
I am going to suggest you wait till Amazon. I was not super impressed by this offering. First up, it is not even a boxed set, but a cheap slipcase that holds the sheets of tokens, softcover book, and map. About the mat, one of them is made from an existing tile set that you could just buy and I suspect so is one of the others. But you get the map, no adventure or even an encounter to go with it. The book has some nice art as well as fluff, but that is about it. It is also more expensive than the original monster vault and that even gave you an adventure. I would consider this an offering one might want, but you can wait till it hits Amazon, I wish I would have.
A couple of questions for you guys who have it already:

1 Is the book the same size as the first monster vault? (6" x 9")
2 Same page count?
3 So the box is like the Shadowfell set? Thinner than the first MV? Opens at the top?
4 2 maps or 1?
5 Seriously... no module?  I really liked the module that came in the first one.


EDIT: 
oh, actually im not sure about Cairn of Winter, havent read it yet.  Its Reavers of Harkenwold that I really liked, but that was in the DMs kit.
whhhaaaat no adventure? that sucks bad. whats the point in the map?
whhhaaaat no adventure? that sucks bad. whats the point in the map?

Im a sad panda if its got no adventure, but...

adventure included or not, maps are always welcome in my collection.
A couple of questions for you guys who have it already:

1 Is the book the same size as the first monster vault? (6" x 9")
2 Same page count?
3 So the box is like the Shadowfell set? Thinner than the first MV? Opens at the top?
4 2 maps or 1?
5 Seriously... no module?  I really liked the module that came in the first one.


EDIT: 
oh, actually im not sure about Cairn of Winter, havent read it yet.  Its Reavers of Harkenwold that I really liked, but that was in the DMs kit.



The book is the same size as the Gloomwraught book; it's 128 pages long. The poster map is actually pretty neat. I don't mind that one of the four maps is witch light dungeon tiles in make. I actually prefer to have a sample map using dungeon tiles (one main reason I like the Encounter's maps).

The boxing is different than the Gloomwraught and I rather liked it. But, it is true- it's not ideal for carrying tokens (okay- it can't carry tokens).

This next statement isn't aimed at Andormius_Anthraxus (sorry- I botched your user name).

I thought this was too obvious of a point but I'll make it. This box is more expensive than the Essentials Monster Vault because the E Monster Vault is sold at a loss (cheaper) to help newbie players get into the game. Setting the standard of $29.99 for all that came in the E Monster Vault is sorta stupid.
Several of the monster entries in the book reference the map for potential encounters.
ah thanks antioch that makes more sense. i was hoping for an adventure continuation but i guess they thought 6th level or whatever was too high Undecided
While another adventure would have been awesome, the book is focused primarily on the heroic and paragon tiers, and should provide a solid foundation on building your own adventures. Again, would have been pretty cool, but I'm not too put off by it.
It does seem that all the talent at WotC is working for DM targeted products.

How come it is not at Amazon yet?
How come it is not at Amazon yet?


This is one of the ways WotC helps out game stores who sell their products and run Encounters.  Game shops can't afford to sell WotC's books at the same price as Amazon, so instead they get them 10 days early.

-O
How come it is not at Amazon yet?


This is one of the ways WotC helps out game stores who sell their products and run Encounters.  Game shops can't afford to sell WotC's books at the same price as Amazon, so instead they get them 10 days early.

-O



Yeah, managed to get one yesterday and figured I'd review it on my site. I like it, though if you aren't a token fan it won't be as valuable for you. 
How come it is not at Amazon yet?


This is one of the ways WotC helps out game stores who sell their products and run Encounters.  Game shops can't afford to sell WotC's books at the same price as Amazon, so instead they get them 10 days early.

-O



Meh, I will still buy them from Amazon. FLGSs have rip-off prices.
Meh, I will still buy them from Amazon. FLGSs have rip-off prices.


You mean the cover prices?  ....Um.  Sure.

-O
lll take the 40% off from borders. maybe if my flgs got stuff early and/or ran encounters anymore it would be different
Getting it at a discount will probably make you feel better about the purchase if tokens just are not your thing.
lll take the 40% off from borders. maybe if my flgs got stuff early and/or ran encounters anymore it would be different



To get stuff early they'd have to run events. :P
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I must say that the last two releases have been rock solid from Wizards (Gloomwrought & Nentir Vale MV). The art in the book is mostly of high quality and has a lot of new art. I dig how the monsters are themed for the Nentir Vale. I love being able to play any of the monsters straight out of the box with the provided tokens.

Gloomwraught and MV Nentir Vale shed some redeeming light on the subpar Heroes of Shadow (that book boasts some of the worst art in 4th & the classes are essentially straightjacket essentials material).

My only complaint is actually one I feel strongly about. I HATE the darken, flip bloodied side of the tokens! They are so dark that you can no longer see the art of the monsters (Gloomwraught falls victim to this too). Plus, the naming of each token, combined with the dark art, will pretty much mean I'll never use the bloodied side. What happened with the high quality, gloss tokens from the Essentials Monster Vault?

I would like to note my disappointment with that change to the tokens as well. I don't mind the name on them, although I'd like it to NOT be there so I can use the tokens for a greater variety of monster, but the darkening is way too much. But otherwise YES YES YES! I love the MV, the Gloomwrought set was amazing and I' can't WAIT for the Nentir Vale box.
The book is the same size as the Gloomwraught book; it's 128 pages long.


 
  Monstervault was well over 300 pages and MM3 was a well over 200.  That book is TIIIIIIIINY.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

The book is the same size as the Gloomwraught book; it's 128 pages long.


 
  Monstervault was well over 300 pages and MM3 was a well over 200.  That book is TIIIIIIIINY.


I think the new format makes up for it a bit.
Meh, I will still buy them from Amazon. FLGSs have rip-off prices.


You mean the cover prices?  ....Um.  Sure.

-O



This one is also more expensive than the original monster vault, shorter, without an adventure and with fewer tokens. For some, $35 might seem too much, but its 12 bucks cheaper on amazon. For me, I get free 2 day shipping as well, but even paying for standard is still cheaper. For many, paying list price IS too much now. For people who dont play at the store, they're basically paying extra for little real benefit. /shrug. 

The book is the same size as the Gloomwraught book; it's 128 pages long.


 
  Monstervault was well over 300 pages and MM3 was a well over 200.  That book is TIIIIIIIINY.


I think the new format makes up for it a bit.



The new formatting follows the trends that we saw in Monster Manual 3 and Monster Vault in terms of flavor content. In addition, it also devotes four pages to various regions in the Nentir Vale. A lot of the monsters round out existing entries--gnolls, dragonborn, drakes, hobgoblins, orcs, etc--but there's also some new stuff. Basically, I think it is a great addition for most heroic and paragon tier campaigns, a bit moreso if you use Nentir Vale.
so its less than half the size of the monster vault? i want to make it clear im still buying it but this doesnt sounds like a great value
So how much is general monsters and how much is specific to Nentir?  The previewed villians didn't interest me very much.  I was disappointed in Shadowfell--I thought there would be more general information and new monsters, and instead we got Gloomwrought's Most Wanted.
why are there orcs again? how many monsters in this are already covered in the original monster vault? are they the exact same orcs or are they new ones?
so its less than half the size of the monster vault? i want to make it clear im still buying it but this doesnt sounds like a great value



The new book is the same size as the Shadowfell book so the pages are bigger and can have more info on them.  So it sounds like it's still less content than the MV but probably not less than half.  Yes, $35 is a lot for this, but like you I will probably be getting 40-45% off at Borders (and I have $5 in Borders buck this month).

 Any Edition

i wish i could see a toc for this
so its less than half the size of the monster vault? i want to make it clear im still buying it but this doesnt sounds like a great value



Er...more like, a third. >_>
So how much is general monsters and how much is specific to Nentir?  The previewed villians didn't interest me very much.  I was disappointed in Shadowfell--I thought there would be more general information and new monsters, and instead we got Gloomwrought's Most Wanted.



There are four pages of Nentir Vale content that go over various regions. Some of the monsters are lumped into organizations with ties to the Nentir Vale, but it would be very easy to port them into any setting, really. Of course, you can also just use the monster blocks without worrying about anything at all. The orc organization is a massive collection of orcs, while the dragonborn legion one gives you more dragonborn and a liondrake (or was it dragonlion?). Basically, you can find plenty of use for it even if you want nothing to do with Nentir Vale or the implied setting.
Meh, I will still buy them from Amazon. FLGSs have rip-off prices.


You mean the cover prices?  ....Um.  Sure.

-O



I have no issue paying full price at the FLGS. I'll be damned before I support Amazon.
I stopped by a LGS on the way home from work but I just couldn't spend $35 on it.

 Any Edition

Don't care for more tokens, have enough, don't like them anyway, can't prone them, little pictures hard to tell apart.  2 maps are nice.  Book is quite small at 128 pages, here's the monster breakdown I've seen posted.

Level 1: 4
2: 6
3: 14
4: 14
5: 20
6: 20
7: 18
8: 20
9: 14
10: 15
11: 3
12: 8
13: 4
14: 6
15: 7
16: 3
17: 2
18: 3
19: 2
20: 1
21+: 0

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

i wish i could see a toc for this



Ditto.  Since I already revile anything that is boxed (Shelf space in a one bedroom apartment is limited, and I'm rougher on boxes than I am on paperback books), this would be the only way to measure the product's worth. 

Well, not the only one.  But the only legal and thus vastly prefered one.
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wow not ONE epic creature

i might wait on this one a bit Frown
This book looks cool: I like the idea that it covers actual organizations.  The problem is, I still don't feel like WotC deserves my money.

End result: "yo-ho, yo-ho..."