D&D in the News - Neverwinter co-op D&D RPG revealed

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D&D in the News
Neverwinter co-op D&D RPG revealed

2011 June 8
by Alice O'Connor

A new co-op-oriented Dungeons & Dragons game named simply Neverwinter was announced by Atari back in August 2010, but the publisher had very little to say about it after that. Now, fresh out of E3, Atari's released screenshots, a trailer, a website, and new details for Cryptic's RPG.

Talk about this news here.

 
i dont play a lot of vid games, ive basically been addicted to counter strike for over a decade, but this looks cool
They revealed a premade video... I did notice some of the characters looked different and wore different armor so maybe they'll do it right, who knows maybe this will be Cryptics big break?

Generally if it is just Neverwinter Nights (1 not 2) recreated using todays technology without the bugs and with easier to use editors I can see this taking off. If it is just another hack and slash fest with a map editor, then no it'll tank...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
They revealed a premade video... I did notice some of the characters looked different and wore different armor so maybe they'll do it right, who knows maybe this will be Cryptics big break?

Generally if it is just Neverwinter Nights (1 not 2) recreated using todays technology without the bugs and with easier to use editors I can see this taking off. If it is just another hack and slash fest with a map editor, then no it'll tank...



The editors in NWN 1 were quite easy to use, and as I have noted in other posts to you, many of the bugs in both the original and its sequels have been fixed. Its obvious you donot know much about the games outside their initial releases. NWN that was released in 2002 is not the same game it was than, it is a different game.
the game will tank.... just wait and see
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
They revealed a premade video... I did notice some of the characters looked different and wore different armor so maybe they'll do it right, who knows maybe this will be Cryptics big break?

Generally if it is just Neverwinter Nights (1 not 2) recreated using todays technology without the bugs and with easier to use editors I can see this taking off. If it is just another hack and slash fest with a map editor, then no it'll tank...



The editors in NWN 1 were quite easy to use, and as I have noted in other posts to you, many of the bugs in both the original and its sequels have been fixed. Its obvious you donot know much about the games outside their initial releases. NWN that was released in 2002 is not the same game it was than, it is a different game.



Actually I do, I even made some modules for it and every once in a while I pull the dics out dust them off and get all the latest patches.

The deal is without the bugs on release it probably would have dominated the RPG market. With the bugs many people couldn't even install or play the game until they patched it up. After that point it became the shining game it is now, but it is nonetheless less popular than it could have been...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
They revealed a premade video... I did notice some of the characters looked different and wore different armor so maybe they'll do it right, who knows maybe this will be Cryptics big break?

Generally if it is just Neverwinter Nights (1 not 2) recreated using todays technology without the bugs and with easier to use editors I can see this taking off. If it is just another hack and slash fest with a map editor, then no it'll tank...



The editors in NWN 1 were quite easy to use, and as I have noted in other posts to you, many of the bugs in both the original and its sequels have been fixed. Its obvious you donot know much about the games outside their initial releases. NWN that was released in 2002 is not the same game it was than, it is a different game.



Actually I do, I even made some modules for it and every once in a while I pull the dics out dust them off and get all the latest patches.

The deal is without the bugs on release it probably would have dominated the RPG market. With the bugs many people couldn't even install or play the game until they patched it up. After that point it became the shining game it is now, but it is nonetheless less popular than it could have been...



There is no denying that this post I actually agree with. You are right that the bugs turned off people, but the game did pretty decently though as it wasnot a flop, but your point is quite valid. While I love NWN with a passion, I do have an issue with games that are shipped buggy and than get patched earlier on though. Yes its contradicting my earlier statements, but I think NWN is different as it was not just the fixed bugs that changed the game but the community which while much smaller is still active. But your point is valid. Thats why say a game, Two Worlds was buggy as all hell, and I heard it was patched quite well afterwards. A game should not come with that well should we say problem

By the way, as for NWN, I never beaten the main campaign, I could not get it. The game is one of my favorites due to the Hordes and Kingmaker expansions and the hundred of fantastic fan modules, and the campaign I ran a few years back. If the game was more popular, than maybe the model of it would of been adopted. For me NWN is the way online multiplayer for a RPG should be....

For me NWN is the way online multiplayer for a RPG should be....

Agreed 100%.  If Cryptic is able to capture the same magic that NWN did, and improve or amplify that same magic, Neverwinter will be a rousing success.  From the looks of it, they are really focused on the community aspect of it, integrating the community module search/ranking features right into the game itself.  To me, this is a very positive sign that they "get it."

Celebrate our differences.

For me NWN is the way online multiplayer for a RPG should be....

Agreed 100%.  If Cryptic is able to capture the same magic that NWN did, and improve or amplify that same magic, Neverwinter will be a rousing success.  From the looks of it, they are really focused on the community aspect of it, integrating the community module search/ranking features right into the game itself.  To me, this is a very positive sign that they "get it."




Exactly. And thats why NWN to us, is revolutionary and still one of a kind game. Even NWN 2 imo did not capture the magic of the original. And I hope your right. The reason I praise NWN is that it did MP right. For one, it is to me the closest you can get to DnD. To me buying NWN was equivalent to buying the PHB, DMG and MM. From there on you had all the content from the community and the premium content. It gave you the flexibility to play the game you saw fit. You could co op through the main campaign if you wanted, or through the different modules available. You could go PVP, go into tournament battles, have capture the flag matches. You could play chess, and the best part run a campaign traditional DnD style. You could group together and play a variant of classic DnD. Have  a dm run a conversion of a mod. It was MP with a point,w hich I find lacking in the current MMO format. WoW and other MMOs, are nothing but lets grind for no point...you have too many people in the world, everyone is a hero, that unique aspect of being a hero, a lone hero is gone. Your in a world of heroes, and waiting for the dungeon to respawn....because in a world of heroes, nothing is accomplished. A world with a few heroes is a world for me, and thats how NWN feels...there are hundred of MP games, but each one is different and thes ones you and your friends create, are the ones that are the best to you.
For me NWN is the way online multiplayer for a RPG should be....

Agreed 100%.  If Cryptic is able to capture the same magic that NWN did, and improve or amplify that same magic, Neverwinter will be a rousing success.  From the looks of it, they are really focused on the community aspect of it, integrating the community module search/ranking features right into the game itself.  To me, this is a very positive sign that they "get it."




Exactly. And thats why NWN to us, is revolutionary and still one of a kind game. Even NWN 2 imo did not capture the magic of the original. And I hope your right. The reason I praise NWN is that it did MP right. For one, it is to me the closest you can get to DnD. To me buying NWN was equivalent to buying the PHB, DMG and MM. From there on you had all the content from the community and the premium content. It gave you the flexibility to play the game you saw fit. You could co op through the main campaign if you wanted, or through the different modules available. You could go PVP, go into tournament battles, have capture the flag matches. You could play chess, and the best part run a campaign traditional DnD style. You could group together and play a variant of classic DnD. Have  a dm run a conversion of a mod. It was MP with a point,which I find lacking in the current MMO format. WoW and other MMOs, are nothing but lets grind for no point...you have too many people in the world, everyone is a hero, that unique aspect of being a hero, a lone hero is gone. Your in a world of heroes, and waiting for the dungeon to respawn....because in a world of heroes, nothing is accomplished. A world with a few heroes is a world for me, and thats how NWN feels...there are hundred of MP games, but each one is different and thes ones you and your friends create, are the ones that are the best to you.



I am always amazed when people have a good time in any multiplayer game that expands beyond their family and close circle of friends.  Mainly because I have had only negative experiences in that field.  But I am glad that this will be a fun game for someone.

Edit: I feel the need to mention that my close circle of friends numbers about 5 people, total.  All at least 2 hours from my current location.  And my family are the only ones I could find to play D&D, and only because they live close.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I am always amazed when people have a good time in any multiplayer game that expands beyond their family and close circle of friends.  Mainly because I have had only negative experiences in that field.  But I am glad that this will be a fun game for someone.

Strangely enough, I can only say the opposite.  Maybe I have been lucky, maybe I am just more selective with the strangers I approach in game.  I have seen a lot of what you are talking about, particularly in MMO's, but rarely experience it firsthand.

Neverwinter Nights really doesn't cater to the MMO mindset, though.  You usually gather up in a group of like-minded individuals before you even start a module/campaign.  Anyone still playing NWN today, and there are still a lot, are probably more serious/mature about the game.  I expect Neverwinter will be similar, with instanced "hubs" to gather and meet people to adventure with.  Just be selective.  If someone starts acting childish or offensive, make a note not to adventure with them later.

Celebrate our differences.

I am always amazed when people have a good time in any multiplayer game that expands beyond their family and close circle of friends.  Mainly because I have had only negative experiences in that field.  But I am glad that this will be a fun game for someone.

Strangely enough, I can only say the opposite.  Maybe I have been lucky, maybe I am just more selective with the strangers I approach in game.  I have seen a lot of what you are talking about, particularly in MMO's, but rarely experience it firsthand.

Neverwinter Nights really doesn't cater to the MMO mindset, though.  You usually gather up in a group of like-minded individuals before you even start a module/campaign.  Anyone still playing NWN today, and there are still a lot, are probably more serious/mature about the game.  I expect Neverwinter will be similar, with instanced "hubs" to gather and meet people to adventure with.  Just be selective.  If someone starts acting childish or offensive, make a note not to adventure with them later.




I can say that on both aspects strangers and friends and family I have had good experiences. Heck I even made friends playing games like Halo: Reach or Call of Duty: Black Ops lol! NWN is no exception!
I am always amazed when people have a good time in any multiplayer game that expands beyond their family and close circle of friends.  Mainly because I have had only negative experiences in that field.  But I am glad that this will be a fun game for someone.

Strangely enough, I can only say the opposite.  Maybe I have been lucky, maybe I am just more selective with the strangers I approach in game.  I have seen a lot of what you are talking about, particularly in MMO's, but rarely experience it firsthand.

Neverwinter Nights really doesn't cater to the MMO mindset, though.  You usually gather up in a group of like-minded individuals before you even start a module/campaign.  Anyone still playing NWN today, and there are still a lot, are probably more serious/mature about the game.  I expect Neverwinter will be similar, with instanced "hubs" to gather and meet people to adventure with.  Just be selective.  If someone starts acting childish or offensive, make a note not to adventure with them later.




I can say that on both aspects strangers and friends and family I have had good experiences. Heck I even made friends playing games like Halo: Reach or Call of Duty: Black Ops lol! NWN is no exception!



I must be a jerk magnet.  The best multiplayer experiences I have ever had were all with family or friends.  Established friends.  Random people online have never been a good match. 

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I am always amazed when people have a good time in any multiplayer game that expands beyond their family and close circle of friends.  Mainly because I have had only negative experiences in that field.  But I am glad that this will be a fun game for someone.

Strangely enough, I can only say the opposite.  Maybe I have been lucky, maybe I am just more selective with the strangers I approach in game.  I have seen a lot of what you are talking about, particularly in MMO's, but rarely experience it firsthand.

Neverwinter Nights really doesn't cater to the MMO mindset, though.  You usually gather up in a group of like-minded individuals before you even start a module/campaign.  Anyone still playing NWN today, and there are still a lot, are probably more serious/mature about the game.  I expect Neverwinter will be similar, with instanced "hubs" to gather and meet people to adventure with.  Just be selective.  If someone starts acting childish or offensive, make a note not to adventure with them later.




I can say that on both aspects strangers and friends and family I have had good experiences. Heck I even made friends playing games like Halo: Reach or Call of Duty: Black Ops lol! NWN is no exception!



I must be a jerk magnet.  The best multiplayer experiences I have ever had were all with family or friends.  Established friends.  Random people online have never been a good match. 




Yeah, you must have had some weird statistical anomoly. I've been playing online games with strangers and generally they are actually pretty friendly and not jerks. Now occassionally you'll run into a jerk that wants everything their own way but overall people will even help you out...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I am always amazed when people have a good time in any multiplayer game that expands beyond their family and close circle of friends.  Mainly because I have had only negative experiences in that field.  But I am glad that this will be a fun game for someone.

Strangely enough, I can only say the opposite.  Maybe I have been lucky, maybe I am just more selective with the strangers I approach in game.  I have seen a lot of what you are talking about, particularly in MMO's, but rarely experience it firsthand.

Neverwinter Nights really doesn't cater to the MMO mindset, though.  You usually gather up in a group of like-minded individuals before you even start a module/campaign.  Anyone still playing NWN today, and there are still a lot, are probably more serious/mature about the game.  I expect Neverwinter will be similar, with instanced "hubs" to gather and meet people to adventure with.  Just be selective.  If someone starts acting childish or offensive, make a note not to adventure with them later.




I can say that on both aspects strangers and friends and family I have had good experiences. Heck I even made friends playing games like Halo: Reach or Call of Duty: Black Ops lol! NWN is no exception!



I must be a jerk magnet.  The best multiplayer experiences I have ever had were all with family or friends.  Established friends.  Random people online have never been a good match. 




Yeah, you must have had some weird statistical anomoly. I've been playing online games with strangers and generally they are actually pretty friendly and not jerks. Now occassionally you'll run into a jerk that wants everything their own way but overall people will even help you out...



Well it depends on the game I think your playing. While I have made friends with Halo and other such games, I have run into my share of jerks as well. NWN I donot see that many jerks, even in the early days when it was packed some what, but not much. But in games like Halo, Counterstrike, and others, I have ran into my fair share of them as well. I donot think its a jerk magnet think, I think it differs from game to game.

I think it helps a lot of you spend some time on the message boards of the game itself.  If you post what you are looking for in the game and what kind of players you want to play with, you will most assuredly get responses of like-minded people.  And if the game attracts a majority of immature, uncivil jerks (I'm looking at you, HoN), then it's probably not a game you should look to play multiplayer.

Celebrate our differences.

Whoopie! yet another real time button masher! Good thing no one's making a D&D game with turn based combat, that uses the 4E ruleset to it's full potential - that would be dangerously unique!



Get the troika folks back, retool TOEE using the current ruleset, Turn Based Combat, of course. Release in December then follow up with expansions covering Against The Giants, The Scourge of the Slave Lords. maybe DLC for the one shot's like Ghost Tower of Inverness, White Plume Mountain, etc. Using the same engine, could throw the Dragonlance folks a bone or two with faithful adaptations of the first 3 mods of that series. Then when it looks about like the engine's run it's course release an adventure editor/builder expansion sort of like the old Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures.
Whoopie! yet another real time button masher! Good thing no one's making a D&D game with turn based combat, that uses the 4E ruleset to it's full potential - that would be dangerously unique!


have you seen this?  perhaps not ideal, but it does have some of the elements you seek.
I can guarantee me and mine will be checking it out closely. The DM being able to do custom content for his group.. and good character customization all are on my short list.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Whoopie! yet another real time button masher! Good thing no one's making a D&D game with turn based combat, that uses the 4E ruleset to it's full potential - that would be dangerously unique!


have you seen this?  perhaps not ideal, but it does have some of the elements you seek.




No I haven't seen that.
Ideal would be something along the lines of troika's TOEE, but this looks promising.
- thanks for the heads up man :-)
Get the troika folks back, retool TOEE using the current ruleset, Turn Based Combat, of course. Release in December then follow up with expansions covering Against The Giants, The Scourge of the Slave Lords. maybe DLC for the one shot's like Ghost Tower of Inverness, White Plume Mountain, etc. Using the same engine, could throw the Dragonlance folks a bone or two with faithful adaptations of the first 3 mods of that series. Then when it looks about like the engine's run it's course release an adventure editor/builder expansion sort of like the old Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures.
Somehow, I am doubting there will be a DM client.  The vault is an interesting idea, so everyone makes adventures that others can go through similar to what the fans did in the past.

My ideal game system would be multiplayer coop, DM client, easy to use editor, turn based and 4E ruleset.

That Facebook App looks interesting to me.
Somehow, I am doubting there will be a DM client.  The vault is an interesting idea, so everyone makes adventures that others can go through similar to what the fans did in the past.

My ideal game system would be multiplayer coop, DM client, easy to use editor, turn based and 4E ruleset.

That Facebook App looks interesting to me.



Yeah I have not read anything on the DM client in this new game. I heard about content creation and thats about it. The DM client is a brilliant idea that needs to be done more and more so. Seeing something done like the original NWN with 4e rules would be great as you said.
Wait, hold up. Has the system for this game been discussed yet? I haven't see anything, but I might be missing something...Is it using the 4E ruleset? I hope it is, I was really looking forward to a NWN experience, but with 4E instead of 3.X <_<.
I read somewhere that it's the 4E ruleset.  Couldn't find it on the official website easily though.
I read somewhere that it's the 4E ruleset.  Couldn't find it on the official website easily though.




Its been confirmed through several game news sites such as Gamespot, IGN and others....it is 4e.
Wait, hold up. Has the system for this game been discussed yet? I haven't see anything, but I might be missing something...Is it using the 4E ruleset? I hope it is, I was really looking forward to a NWN experience, but with 4E instead of 3.X <_<.



It said it in the description on the old site that it's the first video game fully based on 4e rules.

 
Wait, hold up. Has the system for this game been discussed yet? I haven't see anything, but I might be missing something...Is it using the 4E ruleset? I hope it is, I was really looking forward to a NWN experience, but with 4E instead of 3.X <_<.



It said it in the description on the old site that it's the first video game fully based on 4e rules.

 



The key word is 'based'. They also claim that Daggerdale is 4E when really its just an arcade action game with level mechanics tacked on. The powers have the same names as the ones in 4E, but that's about where the resemblance ends...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
The key word is 'based'. They also claim that Daggerdale is 4E when really its just an arcade action game with level mechanics tacked on. The powers have the same names as the ones in 4E, but that's about where the resemblance ends...

Are you seriously comparing Neverwinter to Daggerdale?  No seriously, let us know, because that is like comparing an Astin Martin to a tricycle just because it has wheels.  And yes, I know that Neverwinter has yet to be released, but it doesn't take but even a glance at both to recognize the glaring differences and the completely different mindset the developers of the two games have.

Cryptic gets D&D.  Their Wednesday nights consist of multiple sessions of the pen and paper game going on in the board room.  They are D&D geeks like most here.  Daggerdale is a steaming pile.  Neverwinter could flop and be a pile of trash and it would be light years better than Daggerdale.

Celebrate our differences.

The key word is 'based'. They also claim that Daggerdale is 4E when really its just an arcade action game with level mechanics tacked on. The powers have the same names as the ones in 4E, but that's about where the resemblance ends...

Are you seriously comparing Neverwinter to Daggerdale?  No seriously, let us know, because that is like comparing an Astin Martin to a tricycle just because it has wheels.  And yes, I know that Neverwinter has yet to be released, but it doesn't take but even a glance at both to recognize the glaring differences and the completely different mindset the developers of the two games have.

Cryptic gets D&D.  Their Wednesday nights consist of multiple sessions of the pen and paper game going on in the board room.  They are D&D geeks like most here.  Daggerdale is a steaming pile.  Neverwinter could flop and be a pile of trash and it would be light years better than Daggerdale.



While what you said is true, even neverwinter nights which claimed it was supposed to use the 3.5E ruleset was nowhere near it. That is until the community got a hold of it and literally programmed it in... If they aren't careful I see a similar thing happening with Neverwinter it'll vaguely resemble and remind you of 4E but it won't be 4E...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
While what you said is true, even neverwinter nights which claimed it was supposed to use the 3.5E ruleset was nowhere near it. That is until the community got a hold of it and literally programmed it in... If they aren't careful I see a similar thing happening with Neverwinter it'll vaguely resemble and remind you of 4E but it won't be 4E...

That may or may not be be true, but fortunately, it doesn't have to be to be a great gaming experience.  

Celebrate our differences.


While what you said is true, even neverwinter nights which claimed it was supposed to use the 3.5E ruleset was nowhere near it. That is until the community got a hold of it and literally programmed it in... If they aren't careful I see a similar thing happening with Neverwinter it'll vaguely resemble and remind you of 4E but it won't be 4E...



Neverwinter Nights was 3.0, not 3.5, and there were a number of changes made in order to adapt it to realtime but it was not so different as to be unrecognizable.  It definitely is not fair to say it was "nowhere near it."

The biggest differences between Neverwinter Nights 1&2 and their pen and paper antecedents are the result of taking a turn based RPG game and making it into a real time action game.  A lot gets lost in the translation just going from a platform where anything imaginable is possible to one where if it's not programmed and animated already then it's not doable.  You lose even more when you have to interact with NPCs who don't have a living person speaking for them, and when enemies have exactly two possible reactions to anything the PCs might do: attack or cutscene monologue.

Put that all together and you could say that any game that takes a turnbased PnP RPG ruleset and makes a realtime action game out of it is "nowhere near" the original.  But although the experience is radically different the ruleset was still there holding it all together and quite in evidence.

While what you said is true, even neverwinter nights which claimed it was supposed to use the 3.5E ruleset was nowhere near it. That is until the community got a hold of it and literally programmed it in... If they aren't careful I see a similar thing happening with Neverwinter it'll vaguely resemble and remind you of 4E but it won't be 4E...



Neverwinter Nights was 3.0, not 3.5, and there were a number of changes made in order to adapt it to realtime but it was not so different as to be unrecognizable.  It definitely is not fair to say it was "nowhere near it."

The biggest differences between Neverwinter Nights 1&2 and their pen and paper antecedents are the result of taking a turn based RPG game and making it into a real time action game.  A lot gets lost in the translation just going from a platform where anything imaginable is possible to one where if it's not programmed and animated already then it's not doable.  You lose even more when you have to interact with NPCs who don't have a living person speaking for them, and when enemies have exactly two possible reactions to anything the PCs might do: attack or cutscene monologue.

Put that all together and you could say that any game that takes a turnbased PnP RPG ruleset and makes a realtime action game out of it is "nowhere near" the original.  But although the experience is radically different the ruleset was still there holding it all together and quite in evidence.



Not really, they got the combat part to be recognizable but not the same, but the skills and feats and non-combat parts really didn't resemble 3.5E very much... It was the second or third best 3.5 adaptation with the PSP game "D&D: Tactics" coming in first. Still even D&D:Tactics being a simulation of Tabletop D&D wasn't even exactly right.

I'm not saying that it didn't remind you of 3.5E when you played it, but it didn't adhere to it very close. I remember people made mods so that you could actually do crafting and various other mods that added in the out of combat stuff back in. Are you sure your not remembering the game after the mods?

In general with AI nowadays there is no excuse for 'fight or chat' scenarios. They could have run and set trap scenarios, run and alert other monster scenarios, they could have highly cooperative tactics, as well as on the fly conversations in the fight. They could have enemies that use items to teleport out of a fight when it looks as though its not going to be won causing the player to have to hunt them down somewhere else in the dungeon. What is now possible because of the advances in AI is wide open. Now they could decide just to not put in the effort and hope the game sales because of the name branding both the D&D and being a sequel to Neverwinter Nights. This of course would be a mistake. The branding on both is wearing thin...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I personally did a great deal of development using the NeverWinter Nights 1 engine, my friends created and maintained a persistant world based on the Scarred Lands universe for several years, mainly for ourselves but we did have it open to the public.  We used it to run traditional dungeon crawl adventures that were DMed. 


From an experiance perspective it certainly was different than a standard pencil and paper RPG as a whole, a definitly it had a lot of differences from the core rules.  I mean you couldn't use the players handbook for example to find out how the PC game worked.  It had many of its own custom rules and rules adaptations, but in my mind their was no question it was D&D and it was unmistakenly 3rd edition.


With NeverWinter Nights 2 while the tools became deeper and offered a great sense of control, the complexity level jumped to high and while I did make some modules alone for that game it was too tough for most of my other friends so we never did a second collaborated project under that toolset like I hoped we would.


I think the big lesson for the upcoming game is that number one, the large majority of your support is going to come from the modding community.  If they fail to support them, the game no matter how good in the campaign is will be short lived just like any other PC game.  Moddability is the key to the longevity of a game, its why we still see games made on the Half-Life engine for example... give the tools to create to the community and if done right you can rest assured the talent will grab it and make something wonderful with it.


Secondly I think the toolset has to be considerably simpler yet, more adaptable.  Simple things like automation of activities in a game world like patroling as an example really need to be scriptless.  In fact the less scripting required the better as the scripting language was the big hurdle for a lot of people. 


Finally the game needs to think about the implmentation as a pencil and paper RPG tool.  If its got the D&D title, that is what people are looking for.  Its foolish to think the community will accept a hack and slash D&D version, they want the detail, they want the story and they want the controls.  That should be the number one priority.              

"Edition wars like all debates exist because people like debates"

http://www.gamersdungeon.net/

The scripting was a hurdle, I agree, but it was also the most powerful aspect of the engine.  With it, you could do just about anything.  Just to give you a hint of what a novice like me could accomplish...  I wrote a script that enabled us to have hex-based maps with automatic transitions as well as a rather polished player tool that gave them access to all the D&D skills (not just the subset in the game) and the DM to incorporate those skills into their modules.

Celebrate our differences.

The scripting was a hurdle, I agree, but it was also the most powerful aspect of the engine.  With it, you could do just about anything.  Just to give you a hint of what a novice like me could accomplish...  I wrote a script that enabled us to have hex-based maps with automatic transitions as well as a rather polished player tool that gave them access to all the D&D skills (not just the subset in the game) and the DM to incorporate those skills into their modules.



Oh I completetly agree, I scripted all kind of stuff people told me was impossible to do but I have the luxary of being a programmer.  The issue however is the dependcy on scripting to acomplish even basic tasks that really should have been automated.


Personally I would have loved it if they just used C# instead of some homebrew scripting langauge


I think if they create a nice healthy library of scripts where its easy to find the scripts your looking for (the existing ones in the previuos game where tough to find)  and a script building tool that would be a good place to start in trimming the fat.  As it was in particular in NeverWinter Nights 2, scripting to make a module was practically a requirement.       

"Edition wars like all debates exist because people like debates"

http://www.gamersdungeon.net/

Random Question:  Is the Neverwinter Nights community still active? I haven't played in years, but all this talk makes me want to pick it up again. I would gladly run it just for the single player, but if I can get the multiplayer out of it, that would be even better!
Random Question:  Is the Neverwinter Nights community still active? I haven't played in years, but all this talk makes me want to pick it up again. I would gladly run it just for the single player, but if I can get the multiplayer out of it, that would be even better!



Maybe not as active as it was back in the heyday, but there are still tons of persistent worlds out there to play on.  One of my favorite PWs (Folderol) shut down recently due to lack of players.  That's too bad but there are still tons of them out there and you can always host your own games on LAN or over the Internet.  Also, it's free after you've bought the game and the two expansion packs, which you can get for a total of about $20 now.  And it runs great on older machines too!

Regarding NWN1, I think it's the closest you can come to playing 3E multiplayer on a computer that can get.  NWN2, pretty much the same thing for 3.5.  If you want the most accurate representation of 3.5 without the multiplayer, then get ToEE (yes, it was buggy on release but has since been fixed very nicely by the Circle of Eight fan community).

I'm conflicted about Neverwinter, the new game.  It looks like it could be fun and it's great that you will be able to create your own adventures to some extent within the limitations of what you can host on public servers (no custom content), but I'm going to miss the DM client.  I said this when NWN2 was near release and there was talk about not releasing a DM client (it did get released as a somewhat buggy download the day the game was released, but it got much better).  I said that if there wasn't the ability to have a Dungeon Master, then it's just not DnD, regardless of branding, game elements or multiplayer capability.  To me, no DM client = it's not DnD.  It may be a fun CRPG, but it's not really DnD.

If you want to get an idea of how this game is going to work, just take a look at Star Trek Online.  From what I can tell the co-op aspect will be very similar.  You'll be able to play online-only either multiplayer or single player and you'll be able to create your own "delves" with the assets they give you, but there won't be any DM and all the great stuff a DM could do in NWN1/2.

I'm not holding out hope for a DM client this time around though.  To me, without a DM client, it's going to be more or less the same experience as DnD Online.  And that's fine, but it's not following in the tradition of Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2.

Will I buy it?  Part of it depends on the pricing scheme.  I won't pay a subscription, period.  But if it's buy once and play forever and maybe only pay for optional expansion packs (like Guild Wars) or for in-game addons (like DDO) then I will probably give it a try.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Random Question:  Is the Neverwinter Nights community still active? I haven't played in years, but all this talk makes me want to pick it up again. I would gladly run it just for the single player, but if I can get the multiplayer out of it, that would be even better!



Yes it is very active suprisingly. There are still some excellent modules, infact here is a link, a mod for the original NWN that has just recently made it to the Hall of Fame.

nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=modules.De...

While what you said is true, even neverwinter nights which claimed it was supposed to use the 3.5E ruleset was nowhere near it. That is until the community got a hold of it and literally programmed it in... If they aren't careful I see a similar thing happening with Neverwinter it'll vaguely resemble and remind you of 4E but it won't be 4E...



Neverwinter Nights was 3.0, not 3.5, and there were a number of changes made in order to adapt it to realtime but it was not so different as to be unrecognizable.  It definitely is not fair to say it was "nowhere near it."

The biggest differences between Neverwinter Nights 1&2 and their pen and paper antecedents are the result of taking a turn based RPG game and making it into a real time action game.  A lot gets lost in the translation just going from a platform where anything imaginable is possible to one where if it's not programmed and animated already then it's not doable.  You lose even more when you have to interact with NPCs who don't have a living person speaking for them, and when enemies have exactly two possible reactions to anything the PCs might do: attack or cutscene monologue.

Put that all together and you could say that any game that takes a turnbased PnP RPG ruleset and makes a realtime action game out of it is "nowhere near" the original.  But although the experience is radically different the ruleset was still there holding it all together and quite in evidence.



I donot think NWN was exactly real time. It was kind of a strange hybrid, but certainly not purely real time.Infact having recently played the game characters move in a iniative order, and what not. Its hard to see since the action is fast paced, but real time ala, Dragon Age 2 or something of that sort it is not.

Now the difficulty is that I want it now, but no stores carry it so I have to order off of Amazon... I hate waiting...
I donot think NWN was exactly real time. It was kind of a strange hybrid, but certainly not purely real time.Infact having recently played the game characters move in a iniative order, and what not. Its hard to see since the action is fast paced, but real time ala, Dragon Age 2 or something of that sort it is not.




This.  It was realtime in a sense but there were turns and number of attacks per round behind the scenes.  You'd click on an enemy and when your turn came up your toon would attack, then take his second or third attacks when the right segment came up.  This resulted in what some called "the dance of death" as you'd click on an enemy and your toon would stand there and dance around in circles a bit until his turn came up.  And yes, there were opportunity attacks, etc. based on positioning.  Also, as I remembered it, you could move at any time, but doing so might cause you to lose a chance to attack on your turn or put you in position to get sneak attacked or opportunity attacked as you did so.  So yeah, it used turns and initiative, but it all happened very quickly.  All in all, the system adapted turn based rules to a realtime game very well I think.

I love this game.  I think I'll play some more today.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

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