06/08/2011 BoaB: "Suicide Phyrexians"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I dont mean to troll but.. this article sounds a little fishy. He ends his turn cast duress and ends it again hmm. and then he sideboards in 4 of his 3 vampire nighthawks against the vamp matchup um okay?


This. My current build of the deck (I count it as close enough to the same thing, at least) is a U/R deck that I built before NPH. I'll need to look into getting some Moltensteels in the deck, I'd considered them before and I think they'd work well as backups for when you don't get Fiends or Souleaters. Spellskite is also a definite possibility for anti-removal tech.
Rules Nut Advisor
Yeah I actually first saw the list using Death's Shadow, Immolating Souleater, and Kiln Fiend in the Daily Deck feature, and I've built a pretty fun version.  I had a couple Turn 3 kills in testing last night, and could have won another game if I'd blocked so I didn't go down to 2 life (couldn't cast Apostle's Blessing to get through).
Another hilarious card in this, maybe in the sideboard, is Not of this World; people will usually wait for you to pump to cast removal on the Souleater, and you can pump in response anyway, clearing the 7 power hurdle for a free counterspell.
However, I haven't seen anyone attempt to build a version of the deck that is more combo-driven and less worried about having a plan B.

Because clearly, a good combo deck means one that's less versatile and more vulnerable.

People everywhere hear the term "budget version" and think "inferior knockoff," but here comes good old Jake to show them all why they're absolutely right.
Would hardly call spellskite budget, but okay.

I would have run mutagenic growth over flame slash. It seems to me you are saving yourself from unkicked burst lightning, and giving yourself a broader windwon to win with immolating souleater + assault strobe (allows you to win at 17 life, not just 19 life).
aaaawwww, I was hoping the deck would be something with Rage Extractor and Soul Conduit or something :P
Why not run birthing pod/ fauna shaman and necrotic ooze? I use a fairly similar deck that puts vector asp/pestulent souleater immolating soul eater and tresspassing souleater/spikeshot elder into my graveyard and combo out the ooze it's a lot of fun and people rarly expect it.
Would hardly call spellskite budget, but okay. I would have run mutagenic growth over flame slash. It seems to me you are saving yourself from unkicked burst lightning, and giving yourself a broader windwon to win with immolating souleater + assault strobe (allows you to win at 17 life, not just 19 life).

Because Spellskite can redirect the Mutagenic Growth.  They would be sitting there in your hand waiting until the Spellskite is gone before you can use them.  I fought an opponent that used a BG Infect deck.  At the end of the game he still had three pump spells in his hand because I had a Spellskite on the board.

Flame Slash is intended to get rid of Spellskites.  There are probably better ways to deal with Spellskite, but Flame Slash works well enough.

As to the article, why would Kor Firewalker prevent damage from an attacking Immolating Souleater any better than any other chump blocker?  the souleater isn't red so the Firewalker would die.  Other than that, it was an ok article.
Nice article,

I'm was playing  since the NPH online realease a red version of this with, Klin Fiend, Souleater 4 fling and 4 Assault Strobe. But i was thinking playing some disruption to increase my chances to combo.

This deck is a real fun! I play alot in casual and tournament practices, but i don't beleive that it has good chances in a champ.

Gonna try a RB black version soon =) thanks for the tips..
I think the best version is the one that has Kiln Fiend, Souleater, and Dragon all in the same deck...all of which you can go all-in on for the win.  Beyond that, the rest of the deck is just support.  Either U or B provides the best support for a deck like this because you either want targeted discard or counters to protect your combo.  Other people have already tried the B version, so I would have liked you to try something different.  I'm torn as to whether counters or targeted discard is better in a deck like this.  Versus other combo decks or control decks, I'd rather have targeted discard.  Verus aggro, I'd rather have counters because they can also play a defensive role.  Black doesn't really add much else.  Death's Shadow is cool, but win-more.   If you are going all-in on a souleater or dragon then you should win that turn with it, meaning death's shadow is irrelevant...and you sided it out both matches anyway.  Black removal is unnecessary when you have burn and frankly in this deck reach is better than black removal.  Tainted strike is cool, but fling and assault strobe have the same function.  Black is fun, but doesn't really add anything that you need.  Blue provides counters and much needed card draw.  I'd prefer to see a UR deck with: 4x Fiend, 4x Souleater, 4x Dragon, 4x Fling, and 4x Assault Strobe as the combo pieces.  5-6x Counters, 5-6x Burn, 5-6x Draw as support.  I think this deck would be a lot more versatile.  It would be equally as likely to get a 3rd turn win as the RB version.  Except this one could also play a traditional control role, with a decent amount of burn and counters as defense, card draw, and a big dragon to finish.  Personally, I think it is important for combo decks to have a plan B and this one would have a better plan B than most combo decks out there.   
I criticized JVL, most of his last articles were just poor for me. But I like this one, I see it as a improvement. Seeing some deck building(I choose this, but it was bad, than I choose that..) like the old BoaB was a nice thing. Now if only we could get some walkthroughs in Li...

The deck is cool, he gives us more about the process of building it, say some advice about acquiring dual lands, and suggestion about substitution of some of the cards.
A lot of people had complained because he was only making budget decks. So, now we have a deck.

Spellskite isn't exactly budget, but is an absolute must for this deck. Ideally at 3 or 4. I would take out the Death's Shadow to get you up to 3 and put the 4th in the sideboard. Next, I'd drop Moltensteel Dragon down to 2, with 1 or 2 sideboarded. Then, I'd add 4 Kiln Fiend.

For the removal, I'd pull Assault Strobe out, drop Fling to 3, and go for 3 Go for the Throat over any Doom Blade's. That way, black is more dedicated to handling other creatures when there is a resolved Spellskite on your opponent's board.

Here is my list.


Main Deck

60 cards

2  Akoum Refuge
4  Blackcleave Cliffs
5  Mountain
4  Smoldering Spires
8  Swamp

23 lands

3  Kiln Fiend
4  Immolating Souleater
2  Moltensteel Dragon
3  Spellskite

12 creatures

4  Duress
4  Flame Slash
3  Fling
3  Go for the Throat
3  Inquisition of Kozilek
4  Lightning Bolt
4  Tainted Strike

25 other spells

3 Apostle's Blessing
3 Arc Trail
2 Crush
1 Moltensteel Dragon 
2 Shatter
1 Spellskite
3 Vampire Nighthawk

I like the idea of Not of This World in place of Apostle's Blessing. However, until I can play test to see how often I use Apostle's Blessing when I'm not in the red zone with a pumped creature, I'll leave it out. Its a dead card until you pump.

The deck has more creatures, to make it a little more reliable to get the damage in so that any hits you take won't weaken your combo as significantly. The deck does get a tad slower on the removal side,  but rarely becomes noticeable. I pulled Burst Lightning completely out of the sideboard for the simple fact that this deck is almost never in a position to kick it. If you ever are, your in more trouble than just having to axe a 4 toughness critter.

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

I pley against this deck last night on MTGO ,(was it you?) , Anyway I was playing U/B infect which should have been a great match up for it, but i still won 2-0 . It's easy to stablize against and a bit predicable
However, I haven't seen anyone attempt to build a version of the deck that is more combo-driven and less worried about having a plan B.

Because clearly, a good combo deck means one that's less versatile and more vulnerable.

Yeah, I thought that was kind of weird. Taking a decent aggressive deck and turning into a combo deck is not the usual way to go. It'll work about as well as shooting the moon. As we saw in the Batterskull matchup, you can sometimes outrace combo or control decks, but against any aggressive deck you'll very rarely be able to attack unblocked and pay a lot of life.
aaaawwww, I was hoping the deck would be something with Rage Extractor and Soul Conduit or something :P

Yeah, that would be cool. Soul Conduit  is probably too comboish for this column these days, but there's probably a good deck to be built around Rage Extractor. It's like a one-sided Pandemonium, except it works with more than just creatures. Only problem is it's hard to play before the fourth turn, and by that point you're probably in trouble, especially if you've been casting things with Phyrexian mana.
As to the article, why would Kor Firewalker prevent damage from an attacking Immolating Souleater any better than any other chump blocker?  the souleater isn't red so the Firewalker would die.  Other than that, it was an ok article.

Probably because it can't be killed by most of your removal (I see seven cards in this deck that can remove Kor Firewalker  without costing you a souleater, and that's counting some things that you'd really rather use differently, versus 18 that can remove some other hypothetical weenie blocker) and the lifegain will make up a little of what they lose.
Kiln fiend could be good but I would definitely run furnace scamp in a deck like this. On the play a first turn furnace scamp can soften up our opponent making it easier to go in for lethal with a souleater. On draw I'd sideboard in the kiln fiends. I would also play vault skirge for early lifelink, either sideboard or maindeck or perhaps both.
JvL.. F*** YEAH!!! I am 100% behind your choice of decks.  To all the 'haters', he wants 1.. I repeat 1 Spellskite.. In paper that is about $10.  I would recommend 3.  It is no different than the Mono Green Poison wanting Inkmoth, except if you get 3-4 Spellskite, those will last you all season.  

The daily deck, the one with 4x Death's Shadow, that deck was the definition of  boom/bust.  Either you had the nutz draw or you were fishing.  The Moltensteel is a nice budget addition

Anthony Eason's deck from May 25th's Daily Deck
Qty   Name                           Price   Total

4Blackcleave Cliffs
4Dragonskull Summit$4.38$17.52
1Marsh Flats$8.85$8.85
2Mountain (SOM)$0.25$0.50
6Swamp (MBS)$0.03$0.18
2Verdant Catacombs$9.38$18.76

4Death's Shadow$0.67$2.68
4Immolating Souleater$0.37$1.48
4Kiln Fiend$0.35$1.40
15 creatures
2Apostle's Blessing$0.35$0.70
3Assault Strobe$0.37$1.11
2Duress (7th)$1.22$2.44
2Fling (AR)$0.38$0.76
4Gitaxian Probe$0.36$1.44
3Gut Shot$0.33$0.99
4Inquisition of Kozilek$3.26$13.04
4Lightning Bolt (U)$1.31$5.24
26 other spells
1Apostle's Blessing$0.35$0.35
3Dark Tutelage$0.61$1.83
2Duress (7th)$1.22$2.44
4Go for the Throat$1.08$4.32
4Mental Misstep$3.57$14.28
15 sideboard cards

Total Deck Price: $140.22

Now JvL's build:

2Akoum Refuge$0.47$0.94
4Blackcleave Cliffs$2.23$8.92
5Mountain (SOM)$0.25$1.25
4Smoldering Spires$0.50$2.00
8Swamp (MBS)$0.03$0.24
23Living Lands (4th)$0.28$6.44
2Death's Shadow$0.67$1.34
4Immolating Souleater$0.37$1.48
4Moltensteel Dragon$0.88$3.52
11 creatures
1Assault Strobe$0.37$0.37
2Doom Blade (M11)$0.48$0.96
4Duress (7th)$1.22$4.88
3Flame Slash$0.31$0.93
4Fling (AR)$0.38$1.52
1Go for the Throat$1.08$1.08
3Inquisition of Kozilek$3.26$9.78
4Lightning Bolt (U)$1.31$5.24
4Tainted Strike$0.26$1.04

Total Deck Price: $59.42

 I wanted to do this so others can see how much JvL's cuts save you $'s.  Worth saying though, you gain synergy when you have 4 Death'sShadows, and you let a fetchland chill, because it is a +1/+1 waiting to go off.  The other cards are meta dependent.  I've tested it and going to 1 Assault Stroke is fine.  I hate the card more than Tainted Strike, but it counts as the 5th.  Go for the THroat is a better call vs Spellskite bearing decks too.
I cannot for the life of me figure why you would want Akoum Refuge.  It lets you swing for an extra damage with Souleater, sure, but it seems a bit goofy to me. If somebody could explain that bit to me, I'd be thankful.

Your god hand is having a Souleater down t3, with a Duress and any of your combat tricks (Tainted Strike, Strobe, Fling) and going for it if Duress shows no permission or removal. As was said before, Kiln Fiend is a really great choice, especially with Apostle's Blessing and Mutagenic Growths.

However... It's really quite unstable. T2 G Infect decks can be had for cheaper or around the same price with the more stable opportunity to "Whoops, I won the game."

Despite that, I love the Phyrexian Sligh archetype, and I think a deck of about equal budget can be had focusing the deck around Death's Shadows. Hex Parasite may be left off the list, but chucking a bunch of Phyrexian mana spells in to get to your 13/13 friend. Gitaxian Probes are an appropriate substitute for Inquisitions if you're really that worried about budget, and probably find a way into the deck anyway. Add Apostle's Blessings, Mutagenic Growths, and Dismembers for our friend Spellskite, even Baneslayer and Obliterator! This way, you can still go to face with Souleater, given the right conditions. If not, you ping yourself down to a comfortable life total, say 6 or 8, and go beatstick with Death Shadows and Apostle's Blessing to get through blockers and removal or Fling just to be plain fancy about it. On top of all of this, you can just have a Kiln Fiend on the side getting beefy and Fling him too.
My quick attempt at a Rage Extractor deck:

Everflowing Chalice lets me cast the Extractor on turn three. Dismember, Tezzeret's Gambit and Phyrexian Metamorph all seem like no-brainers for this deck, and once I had the Gambit I wanted some way to use proliferate, so I went with Pith Driller over some other creature that might be better in a vacuum. Vault Skirge and Basilisk Collar on any of the other creatures let me recover some of the life I'll be spending as mana.

Obviously, the mana base is not balanced there, but I think you need at least some of each color so you have the option of paying normal mana rather than life. You could go a ton of ways with Phyrexian mana - that's the whole point, the off-color thing. At first I used green for Elves to accelerate, but in this case they wouldn't be faster than the Chalice. As a bonus, Chalice works well with Tezzeret's Gambit. You might prefer Apostle's Blessing  and Cathedral Membrane to play more defensively until the Extractor comes out, or make a more controllish deck with Norn's Annex  and Surgical Extraction  or Noxious Revival, or just play go-for-broke Timmy-style with Moltensteel Dragon  and Thundering Tanadon...

EDIT: Took out Probes, put in Moltensteel Dragons and more Spined Thopters. The higher CMC is actually an advantage with the Extractor, you need creatures to survive long enough to do everything else here, and the Gambits should provide enough card-drawing anyway.
LSV drafted a Rage Extractor deck.

hi there i pretty love this deck, first his a building on a budget and second i tried it 11 june and i finishing 6th easy.yes the deck is vulnerable, all deck are no? so my point is the deck is for someone want to play has casual deck we are here to have fun i loved how he explain the choice of the card... has i say early i finish 6th that not bad vs 30 oppenent. when i began the game day no one know what kind of deck i play and i easy pass trough caw-blade,tempered steel, venser deck, valakut deck and others.... they are all dead at 3turn of the games that means that deck have hes chance in the format. imagine you playing this deck in champs and kill all ur oppenent with a deck cost 60$ max and u beat deck cost 100$++++ so thank you for this deck list and continue
ive made myself an amazing casual, common only version of this deck, that regularly wins on t3

4x immolating souleater
4x fiery hellhound
4x molten ravager

4x assault strobe
3x fling
3x burn the impure
3x flame slash
4x lightning bolt
4x bull rush
3x thunder strike

im fairly new to the game but ive been doing well with this
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