Wish Lists - To Use or Not to Use?

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One of my long-time D&D friends who now plays with us every two weeks doesn't use or like wish lists, and his take inspired me to write Magic Items: Surprise Me today.

What about you?  Do you or one of your friends simply not use wish lists in 4e?  They do have their pros and cons, as I talk about.

Let me know what your think about them, here or there, as usual.  Thanks!
LEONINE ROAR : Amp Up Your D&D Game : Visit my D&D blog :: FASTER COMBAT : Crush Your Combat Grind
I use them ... or rather, I would like to use them, when I run, however my players rarely if ever submit anything to me when I request them.  As such, I typically just go looking through CharOp guides for good stuff for their classes and distribute that.  I do use Inherent Bonuses as in the DMG2, so I'm usually only giving out 1 magic item per level give or take (4-man party) , so I don't run out too fast ... and they can craft or buy items as normal (I don't use rarity rules).
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I use them ... or rather, I would like to use them, when I run, however my players rarely if ever submit anything to me when I request them.  As such, I typically just go looking through CharOp guides for good stuff for their classes and distribute that.  I do use Inherent Bonuses as in the DMG2, so I'm usually only giving out 1 magic item per level give or take (4-man party) , so I don't run out too fast ... and they can craft or buy items as normal (I don't use rarity rules).



That is the #1 drawback I talk about in the article Salla: many players don't put it or don't have the time to comb throw sourcebooks or the online Compendium to both a) create, and b) continually update and revise their wish lists.

I say it's well worth the time and effort, but it's a sticking point, no question.

I do talk about some time-saving alternatives though, like the Partial Wish List approach.
LEONINE ROAR : Amp Up Your D&D Game : Visit my D&D blog :: FASTER COMBAT : Crush Your Combat Grind
I don't like wish lists and my regular DM doesn't use them, but I like it even less when DMs don't give out useful items.  If no one in the party uses hammers don't give them a hammer with an enchantment exclusive to hammers.  If there aren't any holy symbol using characters, don't give them a sword whose main benefit is that it counts as a holy symbol.  It does not have to be super useful or anything overpowered, just minimally useful and relevant to the party.

And give them enough gold to occasionally let them pick out an item or two if they need it for a character concept or build.
I don't like wish lists and my regular DM doesn't use them, but I like it even less when DMs don't give out useful items.  If no one in the party uses hammers don't give them a hammer with an enchantment exclusive to hammers.  If there aren't any holy symbol using characters, don't give them a sword whose main benefit is that it counts as a holy symbol.  It does not have to be super useful or anything overpowered, just minimally useful and relevant to the party.

And give them enough gold to occasionally let them pick out an item or two if they need it for a character concept or build.



Great, great points GO.  "Major" magic treasure - like most non-wondrous items, for example, and especially weapons, armor and neck items - should definitely have sort of connection to the characters' backstory, motivations, class, race etc.  Or to the player's personality or preferences. 

Once in a while, simpler or more generic magic items (read: Common rarity items) that anyone can use or simply sell as gold is ok, too.  100% item catering?  Too unrealistic.  80% though?  I'm good with that!  haha
LEONINE ROAR : Amp Up Your D&D Game : Visit my D&D blog :: FASTER COMBAT : Crush Your Combat Grind
I like making wishlists for my characters, and getting wishlists from my players. I take them as a inspiration rather than constraint. I have a couple players who don't give me anything to go on, so I tend to give them whatever I think makes sense for the story, bearing in mind the basics of their character. With any luck, they'll see the others synergizing with their equipment and decide they want in on the fun.

My players are, for the most part, not vicious optimizers. If they were, and only listed a one specific item for each slot that they would accept for their "build," I might not be happy, but I wouldn't see that as a problem with wishlists but with the players.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

I do not use wish lists.

As a player? 
I'm not going to write down a list of coveted items & then hope/expect them to just coincidently apear as the loot/reward in whatever adventure the DMs brewed up. 

No, if I have some specific item I want, I'm going to take a much more active role in getting it.  As in I'll have my character do the research on where ____ was last seen, who makes it, go there & dig it up, etc etc etc.
For ex; In our Tue. night game my wizard wants a customized figurine of wonderous power.  This thing doesn't exist.  It's not ever going to be found as loot.  Or even be given to me by the most powerfull NPCs in our game out of their vaults.
But there are craftsmen who make all of the other figurines.  So I've been working with several to make this thing.  I'm going out on adventures to gather the cash/components needed.

As a DM?
You want to write down a wish list & rely upon hope to make it apear?  Then you'd best mail it to the North Pole.....  Because I'm not Santa Clause.
I pick the bad guys treasure based upon A) what I think they should have, B) what I think will make for an interesting/challenging encounter, C) things I want to toss into play, D) and sometimes there's a plot reliant reason x is found.    

Of course if a player is willing to put actual effort into finding the items on their wish list.....  Well, that's the grist for stories & adventures.
But the inititive has to come from the player, in game, because (as I'm not Santa) just writing down a list & turning it in won't get you anything.

Wish lists are a good idea, especially for new players and new DMs, since it's a fairly awful feeling as a group to get a Girdle of the Oxen as the level 5 magic item that represents the capstone of L1 parcels.

Some items are 'more equal' than others, so as DMs gain more experience they can start ignoring wish lists and hand out items that complement the party as well as the party balance.  As PCs rise in level and access to cash and Rituals improves then the pressure is off the DM almost completely to get the magic items 'right'.
@CCS

The only differance between a wishlist and your version is just an additional layer of RP.  A player activly searching for an item is basically a wishlist. 

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

I use them for all "slot items". For wondrous items, I use a pretty decent mix of wish list and my own ideas.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
@CCS

The only differance between a wishlist and your version is just an additional layer of RP.  A player activly searching for an item is basically a wishlist. 

This.

It's actually kinda funny how many time i've seen "i don't use wish lists, but i give the player's what they ask for and/or don't drop useless stuff".

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s to intentionally miss with
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Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
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my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

@CCS

The only differance between a wishlist and your version is just an additional layer of RP.  A player activly searching for an item is basically a wishlist. 

This.

It's actually kinda funny how many time i've seen "i don't use wish lists, but i give the player's what they ask for and/or don't drop useless stuff".

Ya, I think half the problems with Wish lists is that people assume they have to work one way and do not like that that implimentation, when the more natural approach would be good for most groups. 
The players submit a list of items they would like to find. 
The DM loks over these lists, and uses them as a guide for the tpes of items that the players want, and would be useful for their characters. 

The problem as I see it is people thinking that the DM has/needs to give out everything on the wish list. 

I don't use wish lists as a DM only because my players don't have the sourcebooks to make them for me.

Instead I do the following:

1.  Observe how they play - is one character chargining alot in battle? I'll give out some item that has a bonus to charge.  It's up to the players after to decide if that's a good item for them.

2.  Determine their weakness and help fill it - do all the characters have weak Will defense or does no one have anything to help with saving throws?  Here comes an item for them that helps fill that gap.

3.  Where do they want to go - similar to #1, but realize that they may not do XYZ simply because they can't yet.  If the swordmage says that he wants to focus on lightning attacks to match his dragonbreath, I might give a weapon out that gives an extra bonus to attack rolls made with lightning attacks.

4.  Fun stuff - Bags of holding or my own custom magic items (Teddy bear that prevents nightmares)
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
4.  Fun stuff - Bags of holding or my own custom magic items (Teddy bear that prevents nightmares)


Strangely similar... yet opposite of something I've used in one of my games.

All hail Mr. Wooby.  All fear Mr. Wooby.  Mr. Wooby fhtagn!  Ia, ia!
Jackonomicon™ It's not always safe for work, but it's great for play. It's my blog, yo.
I think my favorite system so far has just been "You get a magic item of level X, boot up CB after this session and go nuts."

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I dislike wish lists and don't use them as a DM.

I feel magic items lose their sense of wonder/magic when players are just picking what they want. My preference would be if players weren't even allowed to know what magic items existed so that everything they come across is new and exciting. Much in the same way I expoect (hope) none of my players read the monster manuals.
I also feel that items not being player picked helps a great deal in keeping balance at a level where I want it. No item dependent builds or exploits etc.
I also enjoy as a DM hearing the discussion between players of, "we got this thing. How can we use it? Who would it best fot? Is it better than x? Well what if we swap x and y around?" rather than giving a wish list item and that player saying, "yep that's mine."
I also enjoy watching players adapt to using new magic items rather than just an upgrade of an old item (I never give out upgrades, always different stuff). Part of my enjoyment is in watching the creative use of items with unusual powers/properties rather than "this gives me more damage" items.

I never give out useless stuff like the hammer in a non-hammer wielding party example. I also hand create shops with pre-determined loot for them to pick from. And if they really, badly, wanted a specific item I occasionally throw them a scroll of enchant magic item. Such scrolls are rare though and the choice they offer should be highly valued.

I also dislike wish lists as a player for similar reasons as above.
I think my favorite system so far has just been "You get a magic item of level X, boot up CB after this session and go nuts."



I've considered this, myself, but frequently items are acquired in mid-game and I don't want to have to stop everything for that.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I think my favorite system so far has just been "You get a magic item of level X, boot up CB after this session and go nuts."

I've considered this, myself, but frequently items are acquired in mid-game and I don't want to have to stop everything for that.

I understand what you mean, but he said "after this session". Just because a magic item gets "found" mid-game doesn't mean it has to be described, delivered, and deployed mid-game.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I've always hated wish lists for treasure, and I think the current system has absolutely no need for them... well, except for the whole "common/uncommon/rare" thing.  That kind of ruined everything.  But if we ignore that part of the system, using the Enchant Item ritual you can make whatever item you really want, it's just less residuum efficient then relying on what providence brings you.  Basically, I like to reward players (and as a player, be rewarded for) having non-gear dependant builds (at my table, you actually don't see all weapon users using only superior weapons!  It's a refreshing change).  They just need to make a good way of randomly determining treasure.  Fortunately there are some good third-party tools out there.
I think my favorite system so far has just been "You get a magic item of level X, boot up CB after this session and go nuts."

I've considered this, myself, but frequently items are acquired in mid-game and I don't want to have to stop everything for that.

I understand what you mean, but he said "after this session". Just because a magic item gets "found" mid-game doesn't mean it has to be described, delivered, and deployed mid-game.




Perhaps, but I would kind of irritated thinking 'You know, I'd dearly love to have a magic weapon right now, but I have to wait until the end of the session to get it'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I think my favorite system so far has just been "You get a magic item of level X, boot up CB after this session and go nuts."

I've considered this, myself, but frequently items are acquired in mid-game and I don't want to have to stop everything for that.

I understand what you mean, but he said "after this session". Just because a magic item gets "found" mid-game doesn't mean it has to be described, delivered, and deployed mid-game.




Perhaps, but I would kind of irritated thinking 'You know, I'd dearly love to have a magic weapon right now, but I have to wait until the end of the session to get it'.


True that is a mild problem, though we generally get loot at end anyway, and personally I'd much rather have Hydra plate later than Delver's plate now.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I dislike wish lists and don't use them as a DM. I feel magic items lose their sense of wonder/magic when players are just picking what they want. My preference would be if players weren't even allowed to know what magic items existed so that everything they come across is new and exciting. Much in the same way I expoect (hope) none of my players read the monster manuals.



The only problems with players never reading the MMs or Item books?  They'll never be DMs.  And really, 4th ed really has tried to be the most DM friendly (New DM friendly, in specific) of most games I have seen.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Give unique magic items (combine more than one effect and maybe some form of minor disad) and use wish lists to get an idea the kinds of items they might like (if you can)
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

All of the DMs in my group ask for wish lists, but none of us wants to know exactly what we're going to get. The closest we've gotten to wish listing is to tell our Dark Sun DM to give the non-optimizer an implement he can use, if only to nudge his hit rate up. And the DM did just that.

I can't wait to find out what I'll get next. I've no doubt that whatever it is will be usable for my character, so it's all good!

(That's the one piece of DM advice I'd preserve for all future editions, if I could only preserve one. If nobody in the party uses a battle axe, don't give them a magical battle axe! This isn't Diablo!)
The Wish list has it's place, since more and more character builds tend to require specific items to function. The player knowing what he needs for his build to work properly is certainly an important factor. For the DM it's certainly nice if he can understand what the party uses, what they would want, and what they can use.

I've certainly played in a few games where the DM though it was cool to drop a +3 longsword, and no one in the party used them. Kind of a boring reward for out party. On the opposite side, getting "3 level X items of your choice, pick them out before game next week" might be a useful reward, but it isn't very memorable or interesting.

Each game is different, so the emotional attachment to each item will change depending on the players involved. Your grandfathers ancient frost blade that was crafted with forgotten elven magics has got some story to it, but your cloak of resistance doesn't nessicarily need the same ammount of detail.

How do you keep the reward fulfilling and a surprise, and still make it useful to the player?

Get a grasp of what the players are useing as weapons and armor. When the game starts are the characters introduce themselves, or even before game starts, Figure out what weapons and armor they use. In a game that lasted from level 1 to 10, my DM just realized he didn't know what weapon anyone but the paladin used, and that's because he had to help him build the character. The wizard and bard used magic, but he had no idea what implement they used to cast.

After the beginning of the game, take inventory every so often. When the second season of a TV series starts up, they usually "re-introduce" the characters, albiet briefly. This will let you know what they have, what they use, and you can figure out what they'd like to see next. Missing a waist slot item? then you know what to drop next. Rouge picked up a frost blade despite never really announcing he has ice flavored back-stabs? makes sense now. You can even find out what random armor enchantment your party's fighter is useing that you'd never think of before.

Asking them what they want might just ruin the surprise, but askign them what they've got? just good business. Plus, It's a bit of fun to list off all those tasty powerful items you've collected.
I use wishlists, though like many others, I rarely get anything detailed from the players, and often wind up picking things I would want if I was playing the character(s), and loading that into adventure rewards.

I also use the Inherent Bonuses system (and simply let the enhancement bonuses from that and items overlap [not stack]), so I never feel obligated to hand out magic items except when it generally "works" with the plot (it usually works just fine, given that I heavily favor humanoid and otherwise intelligent opponents), or when somethin really neat is deserved.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I use wish lists too.
Both the groups of players I DM for are mostly good at handing me lists. I keep asking until I have a list.
Both groups optimise and are of the mind set that magic items are so specific in 4e that it is a catastrophe if they don't get just the right item.
So as a dutiful DM I give my players what makes them happy.
However they don't know when they are getting said item nor do they know in what manner it is going to be received.
There are ways and means to make the delivery of the item work in with the module (I'm using the premade modules H1-3, P1-3 and E1-3)
The modules come with their own items but they don't fit the players so I get the people give me there wish list for each module and I fit them in and make adjustments to the module as necessary.
It is working and everyone is happy.
At the end of the day that's all that matters.

In order to save the DM time, 4e encourages the use of wish lists.  There are 1000s of items in the game and your PCs need to be well equipped to keep pace with the monsters.   It’s a shame that the 4e system was designed this way, but it was.   The focus may not be on the items in 4e, but they are still a requirement.     


The problem I found is that if you don’t use wish lists it becomes very difficult for the DM to search through 1000s items and determine which items are best for each PC.      You may toss a magical item in the mix only find that it went to the wrong player.    


With that said, my group hates wish lists.   We feel it cheapens the game.  What is worse is that many of the items in 4e are dull and non-inspiring.     To correct this problem,  we decided to use the inherent bonus system to fix the math.     We then made any item that provided a bonus to be non-stackable with the inherent bonus system.   This gives us the best of both worlds.    It has also allowed us to focus on fewer but more powerful items for the players.       You can also combine powers of several items into one item.  I found that players will are  far more excited to find a single powerful item then many of the cheap 4e “slot” items.


 



To correct this problem,  we decided to use the inherent bonus system to fix the math.     We then made any item that provided a bonus to be non-stackable with the inherent bonus system.

That's how the rules actually are.  Their both enchantment bonuses, and thus, don't stack.

But yea, that leaves you with dropping magic items for their powers/flavor/story/ect...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I allow my guys to exceed the slot limits. Rather than being restricted to 1 neck slot item for example I will allow my guys to have a clock, necklace, amulet, pin etc. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies for the Fort/Ref/Will bonus but they have access to all the powers. The same limit to daily item power use stil applies. It just means that the properties can be ineffect at the same time.

I am going to allow players to transfer powers from one item to another item, with the appropriate ritual. I think this is currently allowable anyway.
I do not use wish lists for my group, I just tell them that they found a common/uncommon item and the level and let them decide what they found. If it is a published adventure I tell them the item but they can exchange it for an item of equal or lesser rarity/value. Sometimes the item they found is better than what they were looking for on their list, sometimes it is not. Either way it is all less work on my part because they decide as a group who gets the next magic item and allows me to worry about other things like story and encounters.
I put an end to any sort of wish list because I had player's essentially building their characters all the way to 30 and selecting the most efficient items to go with that build, then they were expecting to get those items.

If there is a certain item or maybe items that you want then you better have in character knowledge and good a story as to how you might even know about that item existing.  If the story doesn't fit then don't expect to find it. 

This is why I think Magic Items should be a bonus to your character, not a necessity.  Also, magic item shops do not exist in my worlds.
magic item shops do not exist in my worlds


I tried that and had a mutany. Soooooo much wining and whinging about how could there not be magic shops. So I capitulted for the sake of harmony.
magic item shops do not exist in my worlds


I tried that and had a mutany. Soooooo much wining and whinging about how could there not be magic shops. So I capitulted for the sake of harmony.


magic item shops do not exist in my worlds


I tried that and had a mutany. Soooooo much wining and whinging about how could there not be magic shops. So I capitulted for the sake of harmony.






'Magic Shops', the way many people envision them, are a foolish idea anyway.  First, considering the price of magic items, only the occassional wealthy aristocrat or nobleman is going to be able to afford even a Level 1 item.  Secondly, even if they can afford a magic item, there are precious few that a non-adventurer are going to want to buy.  Third, having shelves or racks of even minor magic items would be far to compelling to thieves, and you'd have to invest a lot in security rituals to secure them, or just use traps ... which can sometimes backfire.  You wouldn't make any money that way.

What DOES make sense is a craft-by-commission system.  Some NPC with a knack for it can create items for the PCs, if they bring him the ritual components, or the money for them, up front ... then he charges the PHB's 10-40 percent markup for labor and time.  You give him the gold, then come back later and pick up your shiny new item.  No overhead (because he doesn't create an item he's not about to sell, and he's not out any money if the party decides they don't want the item later), no temptation for thieves to try to pocket a potion here and there.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
magic item shops do not exist in my worlds


I tried that and had a mutany. Soooooo much wining and whinging about how could there not be magic shops. So I capitulted for the sake of harmony.



'Magic Shops', the way many people envision them, are a foolish idea anyway.  First, considering the price of magic items, only the occassional wealthy aristocrat or nobleman is going to be able to afford even a Level 1 item.  Secondly, even if they can afford a magic item, there are precious few that a non-adventurer are going to want to buy.  Third, having shelves or racks of even minor magic items would be far to compelling to thieves, and you'd have to invest a lot in security rituals to secure them, or just use traps ... which can sometimes backfire.  You wouldn't make any money that way.

What DOES make sense is a craft-by-commission system.  Some NPC with a knack for it can create items for the PCs, if they bring him the ritual components, or the money for them, up front ... then he charges the PHB's 10-40 percent markup for labor and time.  You give him the gold, then come back later and pick up your shiny new item.  No overhead (because he doesn't create an item he's not about to sell, and he's not out any money if the party decides they don't want the item later), no temptation for thieves to try to pocket a potion here and there.



That's kinda the way I do it.  For example, I have a shop I created where the guy sells basic implements, potions, and the like, but keeps nothing in stock worth over 50 gp.  However he does have a main list of simple "slot" and "wonderous" items that he can order within two weeks.  Nothing on the list is terribly powerful, but are quite useful, for items that don't exceed level 3.  The shop owner never tells where he gets his product from, but further orders could be placed at his shop if the PCs knew the item they wanted and had the cash to pay up front.  Where this guy stores his money is a mystery to the PCs as well (I'll give you all a hint, it's a chest but it's not usually in his shop.  He can summon it with a certain ritual).

Low risk of actual burglary, medium yield items, and good security.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
That's kinda the way I do it.  For example, I have a shop I created where the guy sells basic implements, potions, and the like, but keeps nothing in stock worth over 50 gp.  However he does have a main list of simple "slot" and "wonderous" items that he can order within two weeks.  Nothing on the list is terribly powerful, but are quite useful, for items that don't exceed level 3.  The shop owner never tells where he gets his product from, but further orders could be placed at his shop if the PCs knew the item they wanted and had the cash to pay up front.  Where this guy stores his money is a mystery to the PCs as well (I'll give you all a hint, it's a chest but it's not usually in his shop.  He can summon it with a certain ritual).

Low risk of actual burglary, medium yield items, and good security.




Excellent approach!  It sounds like the best of the Dragon Age video game's merchants but without the ocassional incredibly powerful magic items some of their merchants sell.

Access to "mundane"/ simple / low-level / common-rarity magic items through merchants makes great sense without being game-breaking or killing the wonder and discovery of the more powerful magic items (i.e. uncommons and rares).

Consumables and potions are especially flavorful and helpful things to include, as are flat-out useful "adventuring" and storage items and gear, like I talked about in a different article.
LEONINE ROAR : Amp Up Your D&D Game : Visit my D&D blog :: FASTER COMBAT : Crush Your Combat Grind
Hi. I had to remove some content from this thread because it violates the Code of Conduct

Please try to keep your posts friendly and avoid personal attacks.
I'm doing Dark Sun so their are no magic shops in my world.  And I limit the number of magic item drops to two per level.  I let the mbuy all the alchemical stuff they want, but magic items I pick and drop at random intervals based on how they've been playing and where I see weaknesses.  On occasion I tailor an item towards a specific character, but mostly I jsut drop generally useful items.

As they advance, and since they have started working with a veiled alliance group now, I might have the leader of that group "enchant" an item or two for them as a reward in the near future.  But I'm playing a very low magic item style world here.

Even if a setting doesn't have magic item shops per se, it certainly has merchants or traders of some kind.  The core rules' magic item availability are based on this notion, and that's why common items are freely available to buy, assuming there's reasonable access to a merchant, dealer or trader in the local area.

It would be a strange world to explain if no one ever sold anything "special," like a smattering of the more familiar magic items to go along with a few typical consumbles and traveling or adventuring supplies.

That said, for the times when I play, I always put down common magic items on my wish lists - moreso as a reminder to pick up these useful items when I have the chance and have the extra gold.  And if some of those consumables or simpler magic items are found in treasure, that's cool with me too!

LEONINE ROAR : Amp Up Your D&D Game : Visit my D&D blog :: FASTER COMBAT : Crush Your Combat Grind
I see a lot of people don't use wish lists because they don't want to always know what they are going to get, or as DMs don't like being told exactly what they are supposed to hand out.

Folks, they are not called "order forms"!

I used wish lists as an AD&D DM. That long ago. And when running Rifts, too. I don't recall if we ever actually called them 'wish lists' but that's what they were. But I treated them as suggestions, not demands. One important use was when a player wanted a character to go in a direction not obvious from prior play; items showing up on the wish list was often how I would learn of the new direction.

I did NOT reliably give PRECISELY what was on the wish list. I varied them to keep the players guessing, and because I knew what was coming and wanted the PCs to have (or not have) certain sorts of gear, and because I thought some requests were overpowered, and several other reasons.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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