Warlock Update Playtest Is Up(very minor changes)

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A quick scan shows that they changed Curse damage to 1/turn, and some minor changes to the damage powers deal. Overall very minor changes.
...whatever
They NEED to make dire radiance either con or cha or add another at-will for cha starlocks. Serious.
Does 1/turn curse break Astral Ascendant?
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.



And...which warlock would that be? There's literally no character who shouldn't want a good MBA. Yes, this includes wizards and invokers.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
They NEED to make dire radiance either con or cha or add another at-will for cha starlocks. Serious.



This.

Overall, not totally impressed on first reading. It's obviously not a travesty like the original Templar article in that it castrates an already middle-of-the-road class, but at the same time it really doesn't do a whole lot to improve the class as a Striker. Some damage increases on powers are ... meh. A bump in the number or level of dice here and there don't really make that much of a difference. (Would it kill them to actually make the more damaging Warlock encounter powers half-damage on miss, a la some of the Wizard's redesigned powers?) And for all the minor buffs, Hurl Through Hell getting damage-nerfed really makes no sense.
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.





I was really shocked it did not get a die upgrade (2d6 would be my idea but 1d12 would be fine too)   

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

Even with the control, 1d6 damage on Eyebite, Dire Radiance and Hellish Rebuke(initial damage, extra damage on the second two should stay 1d6) is pitifully low for a Striker.
...whatever
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.



And...which warlock would that be? There's literally no character who shouldn't want a good MBA. Yes, this includes wizards and invokers.



While I haven't really seen an Invoker or Wizard have need of a good MBA, that doesn't mean that Eldritch Blast should be well, a crappy longbow.
They NEED to make dire radiance either con or cha or add another at-will for cha starlocks. Serious.



+1 I can't believe that they did not change that in the update. Seriously, why is it not Con or Cha?
They could of also just made all the Star Pact powers Cha, post PHB1 this is pretty much the stance they took for star pact.
They could of also just made all the Star Pact powers Cha, post PHB1 this is pretty much the stance they took for star pact.



I think Con or Cha would be better to avoid screwing those who already have Con-based Starlocks.
There's no change to the wording on Hellish Rebuke, so the current CS ruling leaves it as one of the most damaging at-wills in the game!

More seriously, I'm also surprised that there was no change to Dire Radiance.

This update is a lot more like the Class Compendium articles for Fighter and Warlord, which really didn't do very much to the classes. The Cleric article's the outlier.

Con or Cha is also a really easy edit and creates no other problems.
They could of also just made all the Star Pact powers Cha, post PHB1 this is pretty much the stance they took for star pact.



I think Con or Cha would be better to avoid screwing those who already have Con-based Starlocks.



True, but shouldnt they then go make most star powers cha/con? I haven't looked at the star pact in years, cause well, its a mechanical mess, but is there enough con star powers for a full level 1-30 character?


That said, Im honestly surprised the at-will damage of warlocks was kept so low.
So, no "find-replace" fix to the class's biggest problem (Star Pact being MAD as hell), and weak striker at-wills (except for masochistic hellocks) left untouched?  Awesome.

Disappointing, but at this point disappointment is not surprising.  Hopefully this playtest is actually a playtest and feedback will be actually used to improve it.  But, of course, I become increasingly accustomed to disappointment.
That said, Im honestly surprised the at-will damage of warlocks was kept so low.



If they increased it there's the risk it could approach the damage output of one of the Martial strikers. I believe this is what they call "The Nightmare Scenario" at Renton.

At least the change to Thief of Five Fates is good.  It seems like a nice solo buster power now.  The vulnerability is probably the least useful part of the power since you can instead use it to apply heavy save penalties.

I think the best use is to delay to immediately before the initiative count of the target so the target can blow all its actions not hitting anything.
Does 1/turn curse break Astral Ascendant?


Radiant Curse (11th level): Your Warlock’s Curse deals radiant damage. You can deal your Warlock’s Curse’s extra damage to a creature affected by your Warlock’s Curse when an ally hits that creature, but still only once per round.



Seems likely that you get your curse 1/turn and you get to tag on an ally curse 1/round, but you might see table variation on that.  It won't nerf any warlock build, even hybrids...although it does make the schtick of my Roglock redundant now.
Changing curse to 1/turn is nice but with poor ranged basics they are a bit down the list for enabling leaders to use them for off turn attacks and they lack many of their own. it's a step in the right directiond though. 

+1 to Star pact needing a charisma option. They even did this for Hellocks a while back who are not intended to be cha primary.  

Nerfed Hunger of hadar but It was abusive with forced movement. Still, it would be nice if it had a damage roll on the zone so it would scale better. at level 5 damage is solid but at paragon considering how easy it is to exit the zone it is a bit lacluster and there isn't a decent replacement power until 15 which uses charisma instead of con so the same characters will not be likely to be able to upgrade it. 
Per turn curse is good stuff... but not surprising...

Would love to see all the at wills get AT LEAST a bigger dice size...

StarPact needs "con or chr" on all their powers.

Not too many major power changes... that's a good thing after the last "fix" errata they did.

I'll look it over harder and send in my opinions.
If you're using Eldritch Blast at all, it's probably because you're an Eladrin or Shadar-Kai who's tacked a ton of modifiers and accuracy boosters onto it.



If whats supposed to the class' core at-will is so bad that its ownly picked when you Op it  through the roof, then something is wrong with the class's core at-will.
There's a school of thought that Eldritch Strike/Blast should be a class feature and the 'lock allowed a choice of at-will other than it's pact-granted power, a la the druid's at-will enforcement. I'm inclined to agree with the idea, if only because having no choice in at-wills at all annoys me. (Sideways glare at the Blackguard)
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
Given e warlocks, I was really expecting O warlocks to get INT to Curse damage and cursing to be a 1/rnd free action. I cannot crunch the numbers on the power changes but it don't see warlocks lifting from the bottom half of striker DPR.

Has anyone run the numbers?

1/turn curse + hellish rebuke secondary = even more profit than usual?
As with the other two similar PHB1 class updates, the point of this "update" seems not to be to change the class, but simply to clean up some minor issues within it. Wording issues were especially prevalent in this update, with all the awkward "Sustain Minor: (Save Ends)" effects. I think the changes seem in line with what the other two similar articles did (again, ignoring the Templar article for now) -- people who are clammoring for the OLock to be drastically modified in this update are naturally going to be let down. As a simple clean-up update, it seems solid enough.
If you're using Eldritch Blast at all, it's probably because you're an Eladrin or Shadar-Kai who's tacked a ton of modifiers and accuracy boosters onto it.



If whats supposed to the class' core at-will is so bad that its ownly picked when you Op it  through the roof, then something is wrong with the class's core at-will.



There is. That's why you get the "make my leader happy 'cause stuff now dies in two rounds less" at-will and don't look back. Eldritch Blast is a flop; There's no use crying over it when it has a replacement.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
1/turn curse + hellish rebuke secondary = even more profit than usual?


Unfortunately not:

If you hit a cursed enemy with an attack, you deal extra damage.


In the original PHB1 it was something like "when you damage a cursed enemy", but this was changed in an earlier rules update/errata.



If you're using Eldritch Blast at all, it's probably because you're an Eladrin or Shadar-Kai who's tacked a ton of modifiers and accuracy boosters onto it.



If whats supposed to the class' core at-will is so bad that its ownly picked when you Op it  through the roof, then something is wrong with the class's core at-will.



There is. That's why you get the "make my leader happy 'cause stuff now dies in two rounds less" at-will and don't look back. Eldritch Blast is a flop; There's no use crying over it when it has a replacement.



Forcing a ranged caster into melee, with a warlord in tow, in order to get their damage up is bad design. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out and hoping for change. A simple fix like making Eldritch Blast a class feature would be nice. Or maybe a line of feats with a bunch of little EB buffs. Something.

I think we got our hopes up when they said that they would use this update to make sure the Warlock was doing competitive damage, or however they phrased it. I know I had my hopes up. But once again, we see that WotC thinks damage comes from die size on powers and from striker features, and not from items, feats, the occasional lvl 16 PP feature, and ways to generate multiattacks (preferably in-class, so the poor cleric doesn't feel so bad). We are never going to see the fundamental changes we want to the warlock unless WotC realizes that all this stuff isn't just a bag of CharOp tricks, but is a natural part of 4e.

I do very much appreciate the cleanup on some powers, though. Some of these warlock dailies are actually usable and fun now.
the only thing i wanted from this was some at-will boosting, my poor eldritch blast doesnt do anything.
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.



And...which warlock would that be? There's literally no character who shouldn't want a good MBA. Yes, this includes wizards and invokers.


True - there's no character who shouldn't want a good MBA - but there are plenty of builds where it isn't worth the feat slot to get it.  Also, not everybody plays with a MBA granting leader.
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.



And...which warlock would that be? There's literally no character who shouldn't want a good MBA. Yes, this includes wizards and invokers.


True - there's no character who shouldn't want a good MBA - but there are plenty of builds where it isn't worth the feat slot to get it.  Also, not everybody plays with a MBA granting leader.



Name one. I feel very very sckeptical about there existing a single build that wouldn't want to considerably shorten encounters. There's such a titanic difference between having a good MBA and not having one that I don't believe you. Unless I'm very wrong, every single leader can grant MBAs.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
all I can say is my (assault)swordmage|warlock defender/striker would love being able to use curse damage with my mark, 4d8+mods, slide 4 is awsome. I might even be grated more attacks ;)
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
If you're using Eldritch Blast at all, it's probably because you're an Eladrin or Shadar-Kai who's tacked a ton of modifiers and accuracy boosters onto it.



If whats supposed to the class' core at-will is so bad that its ownly picked when you Op it  through the roof, then something is wrong with the class's core at-will.



There is. That's why you get the "make my leader happy 'cause stuff now dies in two rounds less" at-will and don't look back. Eldritch Blast is a flop; There's no use crying over it when it has a replacement.



Forcing a ranged caster into melee, with a warlord in tow, in order to get their damage up is bad design.



And you triggered my trapcard. Allow me to be a teensy bit smug here, no offense intended.

Like I said above, literally every single leader can grant MBAs unless I'm seriously off the mark. And no, I'm not talking about "make a basic attack" powers here. For this reason there's really no reason not to want a good MBA, as a competent party can spam all day erryday and get two attacks a round.

And now a quick note: I agree with you guys that Eldritch Blast shouldn't suck. That it should be good. That fishing for an at-will hidden in a minis pack is pathetic. But there's no fix to make Eldritch Blast competitive that doesn't overpower it or fundamentally change what it does. Extra die? Cool beans, you'll still take Eldritch Strike or attack with something else every single round. More range? Yeah, like you're using it. Attacking a weaker defense? Useless when you hit every single other defense turn in and turn out with those encounter powers. "Apply all modifiers twice", an effect that doesn't exist and would make it Twin Strike on roids? Still would make it merely a competitive choice and not a superior one to Eldritch Strike. Eldritch Blast is broken bad, bros. Time to let go and hope the warlock gets new and more abusable at-wills for Twofold Pact.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).


Name one. I feel very very sckeptical about there existing a single build that wouldn't want to considerably shorten encounters. There's such a titanic difference between having a good MBA and not having one that I don't believe you. Unless I'm very wrong, every single leader can grant MBAs.


According to the Compendium, Clerics have exactly four powers that grant (M)BAs. Three of them Daily, two level 5 and one level 19, and the last a level 23 Encounter. If you're playing with a Cleric as your only leader before mid-Epic, odds are pretty good that you don't get granted MBAs each combat.
runepriests do not grant attacks, they just make yours better ;)
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
runepriests do not grant attacks, they just make yours better ;)



EmpactWB not seeing through my veil of lies



Do they not have a single power that pulls, pushes or slides, those two classes? If so I'll concede defeat and lol at the runepriest and cleric.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
O they do but they dont want you to know about them
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
'k, so my point stands. Warlocks still want Eldritch Strike in every situation because lol at encounters when you can pull out two round of attacks per every actual round, or more with the right leaders.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
So its cool for Eldritch Blast to just be a shortranged longbow? I mean, I think this power is a contender for worst striker at-will in the game, and its forced into every lock build who doesnt want to be melee.



And...which warlock would that be? There's literally no character who shouldn't want a good MBA. Yes, this includes wizards and invokers.


True - there's no character who shouldn't want a good MBA - but there are plenty of builds where it isn't worth the feat slot to get it.  Also, not everybody plays with a MBA granting leader.



Name one. I feel very very sckeptical about there existing a single build that wouldn't want to considerably shorten encounters. There's such a titanic difference between having a good MBA and not having one that I don't believe you. Unless I'm very wrong, every single leader can grant MBAs.


I've seen plenty of good builds on these boards that don't have an MBA.  Check out some of LDB's Rogue and Ranged Rangers for a few examples.  As for leaders, I don't think Sentinels can grant MBAs, and there may be other builds too . . . but I'm not up on all the leader builds.  Regardless, not every player who is a leader is going to take the MBA-granting powers even if they are available.  Perhaps they should . . . but that's a different debate.  There can only be a 'titanic' difference under certain specific party conditions, which don't always obtain.

I'm just pointing out that you seem to be assuming that every party member is supposed to optimize around a MBA-granting leader in the party - which is just an over-generalization at best.

Correction: It's a fact. None of those builds are 'best' builds. They're merely good, amazing normal builds. The stuff I'm talking about is very much the Fourth Edition Black Lotus and I invite you to peruse your books for it.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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