LSV tells you how Mythics are better than Rares in Limited Play !

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For those of you who think this post states something obvious I "apologize", this post is however needed for some other posters in these forums, evidenced by these threads:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

With this post I want to show how the mythic rarity raises the variance-lvl of Limited play compared to the situation pre-mythics, and thus lowers the games' ability to reward the higher skilled players game-win-wise.

The below is taken from LSV's prewiev of the SOM-set where he evaluates the cards for limited play, putting numerical values to the cards' estimated power-lvl. I have compared his numbers for Mythic and Rare: (card-names are not all correct or full name, but identifiable I hope Smile)

MYTHIC
4 - Elspeth Tirel
4 - Indomitable Angel
2.5 - Quicksilver Gargantuan
4 - Geth, lord of the Vault
4.5 - Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
4 - Koth
1 - Liege of the tangle
4 - Venser
2 - Lux Cannon
2 - Mindslaver
5 - Molten Tail Masticore
1.5 - Mox Opal
1 - Platinum Emperion
4.5 - Sword of Body and Mind
4.5 - Wurmcoil Engine
.......................................48.5 / 15 = 3.233

RARE
3.5 - Kemba Regent
1 - Leonin Arbiter
4.5 - Sunblast Angel
3 - Tempered Steel
4 - True Conviction

4 - Argent Sphinx
1 - Dissipation Field
4 - Grand Architect
2 - Inex Tide
0.5 - Shape Anew

4 - Carnifex Demon
3.5 - Hand of Praetors
0 - Memoricide
3 - Necrotic Ooze
0 - Painful Quandry

4.5 - Cerebral Eruption
4.5 - Hoard Smelter Dragon
4 - Kuldotha Phoenix
0 - Molten Psyche
4.5 - Spikeshot Elder
0.5 - Tunnel Ignus

1.5 - Ascetism
1.5 - Engulfing Slagwurm
3 - Ezuri Renegade Leader
4 - Ezuris Brigade
2 - Genesis Wave
3.5 - Putrefax

2 - Argentum Armor
3 - the...
3 - 5
3 - different
3 - dual
3 - ...lands
4 - Chimeric Mass
4.5 - Cont Engine
3 - Darksteel Juggernaut
3 - Etched Champion
1 - Grindlock
2.5 - Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 - Liwevire Lash
3.5 - Mimic Vat
3.5 - Myr Battlesphere
1 - Myr Propagator
1.75 - Myr reservoir
3 - Nim Deathmantle
4 - Precursor Golem
1.5 - Prototype Portal
3 - Ratchet Bomb
0 - Semblance Anvil
4.5 - Steel Hellkite
3 - Stratha Scyte
1 - Tower of Calamities
0 - Vensers Journal
.......................................139.25 / 53 = 2.627

3.233 / 2.627 = 1.23

This means that according to LSV the average som-Mythic is 23 percent better than the average som-Rare, for limited play. The wotc-cardmakers dont miss by 23 percent without knowing it, the mythic rarity is supposed to contain more powerful cards than the traditional rare-rarity.

As Ive said in other threads earlier; I can understand WotC's wish to make more money on their product (chase cards for constructed), but I think it is very very important to point out how this affects limited (tournament) play which prolly is WotC's largest seller.
There's some pretty shifty math going on here.

Orzhova Witness

Restarting Quotes Block
58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
Your post is missing too many data points to be meaningful.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
If LSV says so...

Man he's such a god.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

Mythics and rares take up the same slot in packs.
How is having an extremely powerful mythic any different than having an extremely powerful rare? your chance of opening both is still incredibly narrow and both will be extremely strong in limited.
Who's to say those cards wouldn't exist if mythic rarity didn't exist? Things like Swords and Planeswalkers were printed at rare before mythic. 
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
A few issues with the original post:

1) The sample size is too small.
2) The given data is biased.
3) The percentage you came up with is incorrect (off by a margin of approximately 10-20%), and even if correct would be meaningless in its current context.
This is a pretty well known phenomenom. That Mythics on the whole are better than rares, in terms of limited power levels, and that in a sealed pool environment, the person who opens the best Mythics and Rares will typically win. My last online sealed pool was won by a person who opened Batterskull and needed little else to build an effective deck. Another opponent's deck was a dog, until it got Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite into play. After that point it was unbeatable.

I myself recently opened a killer sealed pool without Mythics, with Phyrexian Rebirth and Strata Scythe But I nearly got taken out by a deck with Glissa, the Traitor
Another opponent's deck was a dog, until it got Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite into play. After that point it was unbeatable.


Did nobody else in the event have any removal in their pool or what?
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Common Level removal in N-M-S is pretty weak. You basically have Spread the Sickness to take care of the problem. So, if you are playing control black, you might be in good shape. Otherwise, you are relying on the uncommon pool. Uncommon removal does not pop up consistantely in packs enough to be a reliable way of removing Elesh Norn from play.

So, yeah,  the game pretty much is over for all but dinosaurs if Elesh resolves.
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Another opponent's deck was a dog, until it got Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite into play. After that point it was unbeatable.


Did nobody else in the event have any removal in their pool or what?



Elesh Norn is yet another card I've never seen beat. Much like Massacre Wurm, but worse, because the effect is doubled and lingers from turn to turn. Even if you are in fine shape before it resolves, your creatures that don't die from the initial effect are 1/1s and 2/2s staring down 3/3s at the minimum. And they have to block or you just lose on damage. If I remember correctly, the only removal I had in my deck was Arrest, which wouldn't fix the problem.
But Mike Lopez says most mythic rares aren't as powerful as Thrull Wizard.
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Where's the fun in that?
I'm not sure how the OP intends to prove that making the bigger, bombier cards show up less often in packs increases variance and reduces the skill element of Limited.  If anything, wouldn't it be better to move all the potential Limited bombs up to Mythic?
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
I'm not sure how the OP intends to prove that making the bigger, bombier cards show up less often in packs increases variance and reduces the skill element of Limited.  If anything, wouldn't it be better to move all the potential Limited bombs up to Mythic?

My post intends to show that Mythic-Bombs are better than Rare-Bombs - difference in power-lvl between the two rarities.

As for moving all limited bombs from rare to mythic ? Yeah, I would like that.
But most of all I would like to have no mythics at all in limited play. (Sure, I also would like to have mythics removed from MtG alltogether (constructed), but thats a different (unrealistic) topic).

If Sunblast Angel was printed at Mythic rarity it could easily read like this instead:
Sunpierce Angel - 4/5 - Flying.
Comes into play with two pierce counters.
0, remove a pierce counter from Sunpierce Angel: Destroy target creature.
Sorcery-speed, use only once a turn.

- we have mana-screw/flood variance
- draft/sealed pool variance
- you name it variance...

Why not have mythic variance too ?

There is a limit to just how much variance one can have before the game becomes one big lottery.

One of the best skills a MtG-player can have is the ability to fight variance; In the draft-portion, in the deck-construction and in the game-play. With Mythics in the mix it becomes alot harder for the game to reward those players.
I'm not sure how the OP intends to prove that making the bigger, bombier cards show up less often in packs increases variance and reduces the skill element of Limited.  If anything, wouldn't it be better to move all the potential Limited bombs up to Mythic?

My post intends to show that Mythic-Bombs are better than Rare-Bombs - difference in power-lvl between the two rarities.



And how do you show that?  Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, a Mythic bomb, is rated as 4.5 on your chart.  Steel Hellkite, a Rare bomb, is rated as 4.5.  It looks like it doesn't matter whether it's a Rare or a Mythic, a bomb is still a bomb.

The fact that the average Mythic is more likely to be a bomb than the average Rare is meaningless, because you don't get to choose whether you want a Mythic or a Rare.  When you get right down to cracking packs, you still have X% chance of opening a bomb and a Y% chance of not opening a bomb.  The 12.5% chance of getting a Mythic is irrelevant, because the individual card is more important than the color of the symbol.
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
I'm not sure how the OP intends to prove that making the bigger, bombier cards show up less often in packs increases variance and reduces the skill element of Limited.  If anything, wouldn't it be better to move all the potential Limited bombs up to Mythic?

My post intends to show that Mythic-Bombs are better than Rare-Bombs - difference in power-lvl between the two rarities.



And how do you show that?  Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, a Mythic bomb, is rated as 4.5 on your chart.  Steel Hellkite, a Rare bomb, is rated as 4.5.  It looks like it doesn't matter whether it's a Rare or a Mythic, a bomb is still a bomb.

The fact that the average Mythic is more likely to be a bomb than the average Rare is meaningless, because you don't get to choose whether you want a Mythic or a Rare.  When you get right down to cracking packs, you still have X% chance of opening a bomb and a Y% chance of not opening a bomb.  The 12.5% chance of getting a Mythic is irrelevant, because the individual card is more important than the color of the symbol.


Not_able_to_see_any_kind_of_math........... in the great wide universe of mtg - its all laughs and neonlights.

Its huge fun initially, and still should be for the experienced player. But you know, ppl usually start caring about the patterns, math and structures of a dci rated match once they experience the tremendously entertaining world of organized tournament play - which is what my concern is about, to not impact it negatively.

Limited + organized tournaments = 50 percent of of WotCs income ? 60 ? 70 ?
How exactly do Mythics factor into the math? Making a subset of rare-slot cards show up less often doesn't make them inherently more valuable in Limited.  The only time the mythic rarity becomes important is when people start looking for full playsets for their Constructed decks.

When you need a specific card and nothing else will work in its place, then you will obviously have to spend more time/money when that card is Mythic.  Koth of the Hammer fills a very specific role in a constructed deck, and substituting some other card won't work.  But when you're dealing with a small, sealed pool of cards and making the best of limited resources, the specific card doesn't matter.  A Sunblast Angel or a Wurmcoil Engine are both good picks.  There is no inherent value in the red/orange rarity symbol.
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok

in the great wide universe of mtg - its all laughs and neonlights.




I am going to use this, but as a reference to everything, not just Magic.
All Sunblast Angel says is "You know what? We're not even going to try to be fair with our sweepers anymore."

<-Has declared Sunblast Angel to be my new favorite sweeper when playing white. My favorite red/black sweeper is still Larry's Disk, though, just for the "destroy all enchantments" possibility.
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Mirrodin Besieged - Mythic
Hero of Bladehold - 4
Consecrated Sphinx - 4.5
Massacre Wurm - 4.5
Hero of Oxid Ridge - 3.5
Praetors Counsel - 1
Thrun, the last Troll - 4
Glissa, the Traitor - 3.5
Tezzeret - 4.5
Blightsteel Colossus - 0
Sword of Feast and Famine - 4.5
34/10 = 3.4


Rare
Mirran Crusader - 4
Phyrexian Rebirth - 4.5
Victorys Herald - 4.5
White Suns Zenith - 4.5
Blue Suns Zenith - 3.5
Crytoplasm - 4
Distant Memories - 2
Mitoic Manipulation - 0
Black Suns Zenith - 4.5
Phyrexian Crusader - 4
Phyrexian Vatmother - 4
Sangromancer - 4
Galvanoth - 2
Hellkite Ignoter - 3.5
Red Suns Zenith - 4.5
Slagstorm - 4
Green Suns Zenith - 2
Creeping Corrosion - missing data
Phyrexian Hydra - 3.5
Bonehoard - 4.5
Darksteel Plate - 1
Decimator Web - 1.5
Knowledge Pool - 0
Magnetic Mine - 0
Mirrorworks - 1.5
Myr turbine - 4
Myr Welder - 3
Phyrexian Revoker - 3
Psykosis Crawler - 2.5
Shimmer Myr - 3.5
Spine of Ish Sah - 4
Thopter Assembly - 4.5
Titan Forge - 1
Contested War Zone - 0
Inkmoth Nexus - 4
101 / 34 = 2.97

3.4 / 2.97 = 1.14    ---> Mythics overall 14 percent better than rares in limited play.
New Phyrexia - Mythic
Karn - 5
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - 4.5
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - 0.5
Phyrexian Obliterator - 1
Sheoldred, Whispering One - 4.5
Urabrask the Hidden - 4
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - 2
Batterskull - 4.5
Etched Montrosity - 3
Sword of War and Peace - 4
33 / 10 = 3.3



Rare
Blade Splicer - 4
Chancelor of the Annex - 3.5
Norns Annex - 0.5
Phyrexian Unlife - 0.5
Puresteel Paladin - 2.5
Chancelor of the Spires - 4
Phyrexian Ingester - 4
Phyrexian Metamorph - 4
Psychic Surgery - 0
Xenograft - 0
Chancellor of the Dross - 4
Glistening Oil - 2.5
Lifes Finale - 4
Praetors Grasp - 3
Surgical Extraction - 0
Bludgeon Brawl - 0
Chancellor of the Forge - 3.5
Invader Parasite - 3
Molten Steel Dragon - 4
Slag Fiend - 2.5
Birthing Pod - 2.5
Chancellor of the Tangle - 2.5
Fresh Meat - 3
Melira, Sylvok Outcast - 1.5
Phyrexian Swarmlord - 3.5
Caged Sun - 2
Hex Parasite - 3
Lashwrithe - 3.5
Myr superion - 0
Omen Machine - 0
Soul Conduit - 0
Spellskite - 3.5
Torpor Orb - 0
Unwinding Clock - 0
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer - 3.5
78 / 35 = 2.23

3.3 / 2.23 = 1.48 ---> Mythics overall 48 percent better than Rares in limited play.
M12 - Mythic
Angelic destiny - 4
Gideon Jura - 4.5
Sun Titan - 4
Frost Titan - 4
Jace, Memory Adept - 4.5
Time Reversal - 0.5
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth -  4
Grave Titan - 4.5
Sorin Markov - 4.5
Chandra, the Firebrand - 4
Furyborn Hellkite - 4
Inferno Titan - 4.5
Garruk, Primal Hunter - 4.5
Primeval Titan - 3.5
Primordial Hydra - 3.5
58.5 / 15 = 3.9


Rares
Aegis Angel - 4
Archon of Justice - 4
Day of Judgement - 3.5
Gideons Avenger - 3.5
Grand Abolisher - 2
Honor of the Pure - 3
Mesa Enchantress - 1.5
Personal Sanctuary - 0
Djinn of Wishes - 4
Jaces Archivist - 3.5
Lord of the Unreal - 2
Mind Unbound - 1
Phantasmal Image - 3
Redirect - 1
Sphinx of Uthuun - 4
Visions of Beyond - 1
Call to the Grave - missing data
Cemetary Reaper - 4
Monomania - 2.5
Royal Assassin - 4
Rune-Scarred Demon - 4.5
Sorins Vengeance - 3.5
Sutured Ghoul - 1.5
Vengeful Pharaoh - 4
Chandras Phoenix - 3.5
Flameblast Dragon - 4.5
Goblin Chieftain - 2.5
Grim Lavamancer - 4
Manabarbs - 1.5
Scrambleverse - 0
Warstorm Surge - 3.5
Reverberate - 1
Arachnus Spinner - 4.5
Birds of Paradise - 3.5
Doubling Chant - 0
Dungrove Elder - 3
Elvish Archdruid - 3
Garruks Horde - 3.5
Rites of Flourishing - 0.5
Skinshifter - 3.5
Adaptive Automaton - 3
Druidic Satchel - 4
Pentavus - 4
Quicksilver Amulet - 1
Solemn Simulacrum - 4
Sundial of the Infinite - 0
Throne of Empires - 4
Worldslayer - 1
the - 3
five - 3
different - 3
dual - 3
lands - 3
143 / 52 = 2.75

3.9 / 2.75 = 1.42 ---> Mythics overall 42 percent better than Rares in limited play.
The math is already sketchy to begin with, but once you factor in cards rated zero it's pretty obvious how meaningless your percentages are. Is a card rated 2 twice as good as one rated 1? Is any other rare really infinity% better than one that's rated zero?

The stats are interesting, but your interpretation is pointless. Breaking it down by set would be interesting (are you more likely to get a bomb in pack one or pack three?). Breaking it down by color would be very useful (if I'm committed to Green what are my odds of getting a bomb in my color?) but breaking it down by mythic vs rare doesn't really affect anything, since you can't anticipate whether you're getting a gold or orange symbol on the card. Odds are meaningless unless you can use them to make a useful prediction about an event.
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
How exactly do Mythics factor into the math?

Ill clarify on this.

Someone in another post pointed out that the more luck-factors a game has the better the chance is for them to even out. This is true, although it ignores a certain thing.

That thing is the impact of any certain variance factor. If me and my opponent roll a 6-sided die 10 times each during each game odds are that things even out. But once my opponent gets to roll a 10sided die on one/several of those rolls things change - stuff becomes unbalanced in that game/match.

Although, even this balances out in the long run, and there certainly isnt anything unfair about it. What bombs DO affect is the pace at which the game needs for evening out the odds. If you Pro-Tour draft you have three booster cracks for 3 matches, not for each game/match. In GP you have six cracks for 9 day1 matches, and so on...

The longer it takes to even out the odds;
A) The faster ppl get tired of it, and
B) The less matches are decided by skill/exp.

Remember the fundamental and needed part of this game which is the draw. ManaBase stuff is a huge winner for this game - but also remember that it comes with a price: screw and flood. What we dont need is OP limited-bombs to wreck those games where the draw hasnt been favouring one player significantly more than the other.

Weve always had limited bombs - Im pointing out that the mythic rarity makes for the impact of this factor to become larger than it was pre-mythics.

One other thing: the rarer a card is, the less suitable it is for factoring that particular card into the "meta-game" of a limited format. While drafting you might take gravy-card 2 over gravy-card 2.5 because it sets you up for anticipated uncommon gravy cards 3 and 4 later on. No sane limited-player try set himselves up for a 2nd/3d pack Mythic.

(Ive suggested in an older thread of its own that Mythics could appear in the token-card slot of a booster. When a mythic is cracked the player pockets it (not limited legal) and then proceed to pick one of the 15 game cards of the pack. This way wotc can keep chase-cards for constructed in their boosters.)
Last draft I was in I wrecked a guy who had two mythics (black and green titans) and two copies of Cemetery Reaper with a deck with one rare in it. A rare that hit the board once and was never relevant. I won on the back of 4 Mana Leaks, 3 Cancels, and a pair of Volcanic Dragons.

Tell me again how mythics are auto-wins.

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I think foils are substantially better than non-foils in Draft and foils are strictly better than non-foil counterparts.

No.

Seriously.

I kinda actually have a problem with that, but I don't like the solution where the foil replaces a card of equal rarity over a common.
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Except your math and your complaint are two different things:
Your math (sketchy or not) is trying to prove that Mythics are, on average, better than rares. Nobody's claiming that Mythics are worse than rares.
However, your point is that the presence of bombs that show up only occasionally and are massively better than the rest of the cards results in drafts being won by whoever opens the most/best bombs. 

The arithmetic mean is the wrong number to use in this situation. To prove your point, you need to find the standard deviation of power level of cards and show that, statistically, only a small handful of cards are worth pulling. The important thing here is not whether rares or mythics are more powerful, but whether there are a small enough useful number of cards to give any player that pulls one a significant advantage.

In fact, proving mythics are all good on average works AGAINST your point: Since all mythics are worth playing, it doesn't matter which one you pull since it will be useful anyways. Once again: The important point is the TOTAL occurance of bombs, not the specific occurance of any specific bomb. 
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
I disagree with the notion that Mythic rarity balances limited. First, I don't remember feeling "God, this Limited feels so much balanced that the previous bigger sets. I still have bad memories of so many drafts ruined by Umezawa's Jitte". But enough with anecdotes:

First, the mythic rarity aggravates the very problem it is supposed to resolve just by existing. More scarce mythic rare means more frequent regular rares so the swingy rares would have simply been scarce enough before to be an issue. Now that they are more abundant, upping them to mythic is a necessary compensation rather than an upside.

Second, that doesn't mean swingy regular rares don't happen anymore. For any Titan or Sword, there is a Martial coup or a Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief that gets to ruin the games more often.

Third, the defining feature of Mythic rares over regular rares is the constructed playability, and limited is only a cover-up for these policy. As enjoyable that Limited may be, it is never a valid reason to sacrifice the quality of the constructed formats, no matter how much pros claim.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
More scarce mythic rare means more frequent regular rares so...



Really? So, all those boosters I opened with one rare in them should have had 2?

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Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

More scarce mythic rare means more frequent regular rares so...



Really? So, all those boosters I opened with one rare in them should have had 2?


Despite the seeming absurdity of his claim, he is correct in a way: At the same time they added in Mythic, they also cut set sizes. Compare Lorwyn and Shards of Alara: Lorwyn has 80 rares to Shards of Alara's 54.

7/8 (Chance of rare instead of mythic) *1/54 (Chance of a specific rare)=.016 in Alara instead of 1/80 or .0125 in Lorwyn.

Granted, this is still irrelevant: Mythic Rares being introduced and smaller set sizes, although they happened simultaneously, are not the same thing although it's definitely not a coincidence they were rolled out at the same time.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
Despite the seeming absurdity of his claim, he is correct in a way: At the same time they added in Mythic, they also cut set sizes. Compare Lorwyn and Shards of Alara: Lorwyn has 80 rares to Shards of Alara's 54.



But it in no way has an impact on the frequency of rares as a whole in any limited event.

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Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

I think foils are substantially better than non-foils in Draft and foils are strictly better than non-foil counterparts.

No.

Seriously.

I kinda actually have a problem with that, but I don't like the solution where the foil replaces a card of equal rarity over a common.



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