Neverwinter = Vaporware? Part 2: Cryptic Sold to China

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This just in, Cryptic, current developer of Neverwinter, has been sold to the Chinese game developer/publisher Perfect World.  No word on whether Atari also sold/leased the rights to publish Dingeons & Dragons to the company, or if they are even allowed to under their deal with Hasbro.
Wow. Hasbeen needs to get their licencing back and sell it to a good company.



I'd suggest CCP, but considering they're the same company as White Wolf, lol. :P


Valve... hmm... D&D: Source?

BioWare is the obvious choice. 
I would think that if Bioware would get any license of D&D, it would be through Electronic Arts instead of being a license exclusive to Bioware. EA would be able to have other great developers do the brand justice as well as have Bioware make NWN3, or take over the Neverwinter game if Atari somehow gets the license yanked.

To be fair, the concept of Neverwinter to be built by the user after finishing the main adventure would be stellar if it could be pulled off. NWN and NWN2, as well as Dragon Age, has a good system to do this with, and to have a persistant would be built up like this would be a worthwhile pursute. I Imagine that Cryptic wasn't really committed to this aspect of the game and was concentrating on the ready made game instead. Atari may not have liked this.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Cryptic sold to China? The Neverwinter game is now officially dead. I hope WotC can get their rights back. This has the potential to get sucked into a lawyer vortex for a long time.
Cryptic sold to China? The Neverwinter game is now officially dead. I hope WotC can get their rights back. This has the potential to get sucked into a lawyer vortex for a long time.



Considering Atari will be back to sitting on the license and doing nothing with it. Daggerdale is hardly an effort.

I really hope WotC does something about this.

*edit*

Bethesda might be another good choice. 
Cryptic sold to China? The Neverwinter game is now officially dead. I hope WotC can get their rights back. This has the potential to get sucked into a lawyer vortex for a long time.



Considering Atari will be back to sitting on the license and doing nothing with it. Daggerdale is hardly an effort.

I really hope WotC does something about this.

*edit*

Bethesda might be another good choice. 



Bethseda would be an absolutely horrible choice.  They just eliminated attributes because they couldn't figure out what the point of Intelligence is.  "Oh,  it only exists to raise Mana,  it doesn't do anything else!"


Never mind the fact that it's supposed to govern...intelligence!  The ability to figure things out,  understand complicated concepts,  etc.  Now I can roleplay a complete idiot who can discuss quantum mechanics and challenge the greatest wizards for supremacy,  while being completely incapable of figuring out how to open a ketchup bottle.


Bethseda hates RPGs.  They love Adventure game,  and they're hellbent on convincing everyone that an Adventure game is an RPG,  while removing anything that even remotely threatens to look like you're taking on a Character's Role.       
Didn't China recently ban such things as Mythology and Fantasy?
I remember they banned something recently... couldnt say what though.

besides, you think they would of learned from us, banning anything and thus making it illegal doesnt always work.


that and they own them now???

hehe, maybe it will be for thew better for cryptic or maybe it wont.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I remember they banned something recently... couldnt say what though.

besides, you think they would of learned from us, banning anything and thus making it illegal doesnt always work.


that and they own them now???

hehe, maybe it will be for thew better for cryptic or maybe it wont.

They banned Time Travel.   Apparently a soap opera not on the state owned channel had become too popular with its Time Travel storyline.
Wow.  I wonder why PWI wanted Cryptic.  Their MMOGs are just fine already.  Perhaps they needed a "redheaded stepchild" or something.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Cryptic sold to China? The Neverwinter game is now officially dead. I hope WotC can get their rights back. This has the potential to get sucked into a lawyer vortex for a long time.



Considering Atari will be back to sitting on the license and doing nothing with it. Daggerdale is hardly an effort.

I really hope WotC does something about this.

*edit*

Bethesda might be another good choice. 



Bethseda would be an absolutely horrible choice.  They just eliminated attributes because they couldn't figure out what the point of Intelligence is.  "Oh,  it only exists to raise Mana,  it doesn't do anything else!"


Never mind the fact that it's supposed to govern...intelligence!  The ability to figure things out,  understand complicated concepts,  etc.  Now I can roleplay a complete idiot who can discuss quantum mechanics and challenge the greatest wizards for supremacy,  while being completely incapable of figuring out how to open a ketchup bottle.


Bethseda hates RPGs.  They love Adventure game,  and they're hellbent on convincing everyone that an Adventure game is an RPG,  while removing anything that even remotely threatens to look like you're taking on a Character's Role.       



I see a lot of nerd rage that makes absolutely no sense here. :P
Didn't China recently ban such things as Mythology and Fantasy?





I know they've baned outspokenness and democratic concepts :P
I wonder how many people realise Perfect World owns Runic Games (of Torchlight fame). Considering how that turned out, I'd say Perfect World knows what they're doing. I'd say PW is looking for more ground in Western markets. Regardless, it's good news for Cryptic Studios though. Leaving Atari and not heading for one of the other Fail Four (SOE, EA, Activision), things can only get better for them.

I think it's a mixed blessing for the fate of Neverwinter. Atari is in a tough spot. If Cryptic is still developing the game and it comes to fruition, it will mean Atari licenses the D&D name to PW/Cryptic. Didn't Atari get sued by Hasbro after something like that with Turbine? Then there's that whole sitting on the license and not doing anything ligitation. I doubt Daggerdale alone would be considered "doing something with the license" (nevermind whether said action was positive or not). Atari was obviously desperate to get a D&D game out quickly, regardless of quality. Worse comes to worst, Cryptic will finish the code for Neverwinter but not get the licensing, forcing them make do another IP like what happened with Champions Online. And then, Atari will probably compel one of the studios they own to rush a mudball of code for a game and slap the D&D name on it.

Doing the licensing is probably the lesser pain for Atari. They need money and the D&D license is one of the few things they have that generates money. Is Atari smart enough to use it? And is Atari aware of their own track record and that putting out enough garbage games might give Hasbro a way to take the license back? Another tough spot for them...

Atari's exclusive license for D&D video games expires 2015. I don't they will wisen up and want quality games made before that time. As much as I'd like to see that license pried off of Atari's rotting corpse earlier, I don't think it'll happen. I can't see Hasbro caring enough about the D&D video game license to buy it off of Atari (nevermind Atari agreeing and both suceeding in the rough negotiations) or even buying Atari again. Waiting it out is so depressing... playing a few hours of Bioware's Neverwinter Nights and Capcom's Shadow Over Mystara cheers me. But then I'm reminded of what could be and I get sad again...
I wonder how many people realise Perfect World owns Runic Games (of Torchlight fame). Considering how that turned out, I'd say Perfect World knows what they're doing. I'd say PW is looking for more ground in Western markets. Regardless, it's good news for Cryptic Studios though. Leaving Atari and not heading for one of the other Fail Four (SOE, EA, Activision), things can only get better for them.



There are two basic types of purchases, when one company buys another.  Perfect World bought Runic as it was peaking, and the synergy between the two allowed the smaller entity to reach a higher potential while the larger was able to make a nice profit from the investment.  This is the same type of purchase as the Microsoft/Bungie purchase, two companies that really have something to offer one another.

This is very different: PWC bought Cryptic in decline.  This is generally not done because the larger company actually want to sponsor the smaller.  This is done because the smaller company wants possession of the assets owned by the smaller company.  Since Cryptic does not own any successful IPs (STO and CO both failed, and Atari is still the D&D licensee) I can only assume they want Cryptic's patent of their character customization system, which has always been the one thing their games always do very very well.
I think Torchlight was horrible, so I can't agree. No multiplayer in a hack and slash RPG = fail. :P
I think Torchlight was horrible, so I can't agree. No multiplayer in a hack and slash RPG = fail. :P



Odd.  I hate most multiplayer and loved Torchlight. 

The only good multiplayer is console multiplayer with people who are family or closest friends. 

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I think Torchlight was horrible, so I can't agree. No multiplayer in a hack and slash RPG = fail. :P



Odd.  I hate most multiplayer and loved Torchlight. 

The only good multiplayer is console multiplayer with people who are family or closest friends. 




I enjoy single player games, too. Just not Diablo style games. Gets very old very fast. I also don't game on consoles. :P
I think Torchlight was horrible, so I can't agree. No multiplayer in a hack and slash RPG = fail. :P



Odd.  I hate most multiplayer and loved Torchlight. 

The only good multiplayer is console multiplayer with people who are family or closest friends. 




I enjoy single player games, too. Just not Diablo style games. Gets very old very fast. I also don't game on consoles. :P



I prefer single player games.  I never played Diablo (I have played and still own and run through Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath).  If I am to play multiplayer, I have to be able to trust that the person I am gaming with will not be a dick, and I can't trust that unless I know them personally.  I enjoy the mindless killing of hack-and-slash, as much as I like to follow storyline and deep characters.  I find that hack-and-slash can be fun by itself, and sometimes more fun with friends.  And I much prefer consoles to computers.  I run into less bugs overall in the games I play.  Computers are only for games I don't have or won't get the system for, or can't afford a system for.  Anything else, consoles will always trump computers for me.  I grew up on NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube, diverging off just slightly to PSX and PS2. 

Also, in a not unrelated note, I <3 Nintendo.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I remember they banned something recently... couldnt say what though.

besides, you think they would of learned from us, banning anything and thus making it illegal doesnt always work.



It works in China,  they either kill you or imprison you for life.  That whole "Human Rights" thing isn't hugely popular there.


I see a lot of nerd rage that makes absolutely no sense here. :P




There's a reason for that.


I prefer single player games.  I never played Diablo (I have played and still own and run through Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath).  If I am to play multiplayer, I have to be able to trust that the person I am gaming with will not be a dick, and I can't trust that unless I know them personally.  I enjoy the mindless killing of hack-and-slash, as much as I like to follow storyline and deep characters.  I find that hack-and-slash can be fun by itself, and sometimes more fun with friends.  And I much prefer consoles to computers.  I run into less bugs overall in the games I play.  Computers are only for games I don't have or won't get the system for, or can't afford a system for.  Anything else, consoles will always trump computers for me.  I grew up on NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube, diverging off just slightly to PSX and PS2.  




It's much less of a problem today.  Hardware specific bugs are very uncommon now,  with DirectX abstracting away the hardware,  and since hardware's consolidated down to a very few companies.  The only major problem today is onboard sound,  since that's usually poorly done in order to maximize profits.


Aside from that,  Software bugs are prevelant on both platforms.  Fable series is a great example,  even on consoles they had game killing bugs.


Doesn't really make a huge difference though,  consoles are computers these days anyways.  They're not custom chips anymore,  they're all designs intended to be used for a wide range of computing projects.  Still can't figure out why neither company will release a mouse and keyboard so gaming can finally be unified.


As far as the Chinese go,  could go either way.  Some companies just try to push out cheap stuff,  some demand perfection,  all depends on which the parent is.  We haven't really seen a Chinese gaming effect yet,  it's up in the air.            
      
I think Torchlight was horrible, so I can't agree. No multiplayer in a hack and slash RPG = fail. :P



Odd.  I hate most multiplayer and loved Torchlight. 

The only good multiplayer is console multiplayer with people who are family or closest friends. 




I enjoy single player games, too. Just not Diablo style games. Gets very old very fast. I also don't game on consoles. :P



I prefer single player games.  I never played Diablo (I have played and still own and run through Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath).  If I am to play multiplayer, I have to be able to trust that the person I am gaming with will not be a dick, and I can't trust that unless I know them personally.  I enjoy the mindless killing of hack-and-slash, as much as I like to follow storyline and deep characters.  I find that hack-and-slash can be fun by itself, and sometimes more fun with friends.  And I much prefer consoles to computers.  I run into less bugs overall in the games I play.  Computers are only for games I don't have or won't get the system for, or can't afford a system for.  Anything else, consoles will always trump computers for me.  I grew up on NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube, diverging off just slightly to PSX and PS2. 

Also, in a not unrelated note, I <3 Nintendo.




I grew up on the original NES and Atari 2600 as well. Consoles can never touch computers in terms of graphics and overall performance, though. Computers are waaaaaay ahead. The bugs you mention are largely non existent now. Unfortunately, most computer games that are nothing but console ports are horribly optimized  for PC (GTA4 is a good example). I'm also a big fan of FPS games, and couldn't imagine playing them without a keyboard and mouse. 

In terms of cost, a super gaming computer is expensive, yes. However, I can build a computer that will blow any console out of the water for under $500. Phenom II x6 1055t overclocked to 4.0ghz and a GTS250 would make any console look foolish, and that is far from high end hardware now. It's very cheap, too.

Back on topic, I think Neverwinter is dead. The weird thing is, I'm not that upset about it. Mainly because I want WotC to do something about Atari, and I had no faith that Cryptic could make a good game.

I think Torchlight was horrible, so I can't agree. No multiplayer in a hack and slash RPG = fail. :P



Odd.  I hate most multiplayer and loved Torchlight. 

The only good multiplayer is console multiplayer with people who are family or closest friends. 




I enjoy single player games, too. Just not Diablo style games. Gets very old very fast. I also don't game on consoles. :P



I prefer single player games.  I never played Diablo (I have played and still own and run through Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath).  If I am to play multiplayer, I have to be able to trust that the person I am gaming with will not be a dick, and I can't trust that unless I know them personally.  I enjoy the mindless killing of hack-and-slash, as much as I like to follow storyline and deep characters.  I find that hack-and-slash can be fun by itself, and sometimes more fun with friends.  And I much prefer consoles to computers.  I run into less bugs overall in the games I play.  Computers are only for games I don't have or won't get the system for, or can't afford a system for.  Anything else, consoles will always trump computers for me.  I grew up on NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube, diverging off just slightly to PSX and PS2. 

Also, in a not unrelated note, I <3 Nintendo.




I grew up on the original NES and Atari 2600 as well. Consoles can never touch computers in terms of graphics and overall performance, though. Computers are waaaaaay ahead. The bugs you mention are largely non existent now. Unfortunately, most computer games that are nothing but console ports are horribly optimized  for PC (GTA4 is a good example). I'm also a big fan of FPS games, and couldn't imagine playing them without a keyboard and mouse. 

In terms of cost, a super gaming computer is expensive, yes. However, I can build a computer that will blow any console out of the water for under $500. Phenom II x6 1055t overclocked to 4.0ghz and a GTS250 would make any console look foolish, and that is far from high end hardware now. It's very cheap, too.

Back on topic, I think Neverwinter is dead. The weird thing is, I'm not that upset about it. Mainly because I want WotC to do something about Atari, and I had no faith that Cryptic could make a good game.



It's about the games, not specifically the graphics. I prefer CRPGs, adventure games, platformers.  I can't find Mario, Link or Samus on the computer.  And unless I want to struggle with the legality of certain games, I can't play Nintendo DS games on the computer.  The only thing I have consistently used the computer for game wise is for games like Civilization.  Until about 5 years ago, I never had anything else.  And I find the interface more unweildly on the PC.

Also, I hate 99% of all FPS games.  Heck the only ones I have are AvP2 and 2/3rd of Fallout 3. ;)  I could play Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy for hours on end. 

Did I mention that I also <3 Squeenix?

Which is who I would pick to make a D&D game.  No, really.  America has had it's run, let Japan see what it can do for us.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
So System war is still not buried these days? I like both for different reasons. Same for products from the west and asia, but i still can't enjoy those mmo grinders.
Did I mention that I also <3 Squeenix?

Which is who I would pick to make a D&D game.  No, really.  America has had it's run, let Japan see what it can do for us.




Ugh, no.  I mean, I love Square Enix and have played every FF game ever made... but D&D doesn't need to be a Japanese grind CRPG. I agree with the others that Bioware would be the best fit. They're the total package for this type of game.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf


 I can't find Mario, Link or Samus on the computer. 


Sure youcan, Mario teaches typing! :P


Did I mention that I also  Squeenix?

Which is who I would pick to make a D&D game.  No, really.  America has had it's run, let Japan see what it can do for us.



Eh they pretty much already did with FF1(original version as I believe some of the remakes decrease some of the D&D elements). Although I suppose that is an older edition of D&D and not 4th edition. Although I personally don't think that SE would be able to make anything particulary good as I haven't been a fan of most of their stuff since the PS1 days(except for Kingdom Hearts which I love).
As much as I love the FF series. With the exception of the graphics involved the last truely good game was 8. #9 was to cartoony, 10 was filled with whiners, and the same goes for 12 & 13. Haven't played 11 or 14 as I hate MMOs.


I really think Boiware is the only company that would be able to do D&D justice.



8 sucked because of the battle system same with 12 they combined the overdrive gauge with the MP gauge then made it where summoning can only be done with a full gauge. So you either popped ethers all day or you didn't use magic or you didn't do summons or you didn't do your special attacks...

I actually played 11. Because of its non-PvP nature it was actually pretty fun. You could solo if you wanted or you could group up in massive 18 player parties. It gets kind of swingy near the top levels (75 max until recently) the players get anal about what your character is wearing and what you are doing, at that point it starts to lose its fun factor and turns into a grind... I stopped playing at level 70 red mage...

13 was ok, but it literally played itself. You told the group what kind of actions you wanted them to do but in battle they picked the actual spell or attack, it has fancy graphics and a decent story but it really gets old grinding and not even telling the characters the particular actions. It'd be like playing D&D and picking your role, but rolling on a random chart when you get into battle to determine your actions:

1. Charge nearest enemy and attack
2. Full Defense
3. Use at-will one
4. Use at-will two
5. Use encounter power (reroll if out of encounter powers)
6. Use daily power (reroll if out of daily powers)

Its interesting for a while, but then it just gets old...

I didn't play 14, but from what I hear it was so bad that they are letting people play it for free instead of paying the planned monthly fee...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.

Bethseda would be an absolutely horrible choice.  They just eliminated attributes because they couldn't figure out what the point of Intelligence is.  "Oh,  it only exists to raise Mana,  it doesn't do anything else!"


Not that I want Bethesda doing a D&D game necessarily, but that choice for Skyrim was actually a good one in the context of how the Elder Scrolls series has always been. Attributes in that series have always reeked of being superfluous.

As for Final Fantasy, X was the last decent one. X-2, XII and XIII are some of the worst games I have ever played in my life. I haven't played XIV but have heard nothing but bad things about it. For the most part, Square has sucked ever since it merged with Enix, really, and I want Squeenix as far away from D&D as humanly possible.
Bioware is a good enough choice, but I would rather see this go to someone with something to prove. 

38 Studios would be an interesting fit, considering that they have RA Salvatore, Todd MacFarlane, and Curt Schilling as the front-runners of the company.

NCSoft would be interesting as well, if everything that we are seeing from them on GW2 is as delicious as it looks.

Celebrate our differences.

Bah FF9 was the last great FF and FF13 was not horrible(around the low end of average maybe).
No, FFXIII was horrible. Most insufferable cast of characters in JRPG history, the game played on auto-pilot and it was plotted on rails far more than even most other JRPGs.
The worst thing about the FF games after 7 is that they are not 7. :P
I actually like IX quite a bit more than VII. VII's solid, but not the God's Gift to Games that everyone makes it out to be.

VI, on the other hand, deserves every bit the praise it gets.
I actually like IX quite a bit more than VII. VII's solid, but not the God's Gift to Games that everyone makes it out to be.

VI, on the other hand, deserves every bit the praise it gets.



IX is a solid third for me in Final fantasy series. FFVII is #1 with FFX and FFXI tieing for #2. FFI and FFII are in the top 10 though...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Bah FF9 was the last great FF and FF13 was not horrible(around the low end of average maybe).



I think the only thing 13 had going for it was the visuals. (if you had a large enough tv to read the text.)
 The game play sucked and the storyline wasn't much better than that.  


I admit it doesn't have the best storyline or gameplay ever.....but they are both a large step up from FFXII.
I admit it doesn't have the best storyline or gameplay ever.....but they are both a large step up from FFXII.



That's like saying getting shot in the head is better than getting beaten to death with a baseball bat.

Personally, I hate XII and XIII more or less equally. They're both two of the worst video games I have ever played in my lifetime.
I wouldn't hand DnD to Bioware, they infuriate me to no end. They original games maybe been fantastic, but most of them since, I've had very little to enjoy. I sort of like Dragon Age, but it's literally the characterization that got me through game. I didn't care for the plot, didn't care for the graphics, nor did I care for even the way combat was handled.

Bethesda, or rather Obsidian Entertainment would be good; they kept thier very RPG nature of Fallout to work in the Bethesda published games.

If I want a company to do something decent with DnD, I'd give it to From Software or Level 5. Or even Atlus, Imageepoch and Marvelous Entertaintment or Vanillaware. I might even think Squeenix would be good, but it would have be paired with another outside source, like Jupiter or once again Level 5. 

As it is though, Cryptic released a trailer for Neverwinter at E3 
Yeah, sorry, anyone who would trust Squeenix over Bioware with D&D has no business saying anything on this topic. Compare Mass Effect 2 to Final Fantasy XIII. I rest my case.
As much as I love the FF series. With the exception of the graphics involved the last truely good game was 8. #9 was to cartoony, 10 was filled with whiners, and the same goes for 12 & 13. Haven't played 11 or 14 as I hate MMOs.


I really think Boiware is the only company that would be able to do D&D justice.



I loved 9, hated 8, was meh about 10, ignored 11, loved 12 (the game, not the characters).  And enjoyed 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 and 1.  2 was an offense against God. 

6 and 4 are my top two Final Fantasies.  9 honors the third spot.  Then would have to be 1, 7, 12, 5, 3, 10 . . . and that's it.  I'd not be able to be paid to play 2 or 8 ever again. 

Though I am basing my vote for Squeenix on my love of more than just FF.  The Seiken Densetsu series, Chrono games, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Actraiser, Illusion of Gaia, E.V.O., Soul Blazer, Terranigma, Star Ocean, The 7th Saga, and the list goes on and on.  Every system I have grown up with that had Square or Enix games on them I played as much as I could.  And if I could get more, I would.  It's the only prevailing theme in my game library, other than Nintendo games.

Also, I think Bioware is busy enough with Dragon Age.  Not to mention their extremely "hit or miss" nature.  Original NWN campaign? Boring.  Jade Empire? Awful.  KotoR was fun but way too damned short.  The Hordes of the Underdark was . . . Sort of interesting.  I can't even recall what the first add-on to NWN was.  Oh, and a few Black Isle games I remember. 

I much prefer Bethesda for Computer based RPGs.  Oblivion and Fallout 3 have kept my attention infinitely longer than any Bioware offering I have ever played.

I also like Level 5's recent work.

Though for a Tactical RPG, I'd rely on Nippon Ichi. 

Lit, I am sure Mass Effect 2 is great for people who love Mass Effect.  Other than that, I was not even interested in trying that one.


Totally unrelated, but I hope Squeenix puts out more Legacy of Kain games now that they have Eidos.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I say we hand Hironobu Sakaguchi a pen and ask him to write a story set in a specific D&D setting, let Mistwalker program the game, and beg Nobou Uematsu to compose the score... but have an American artist, somebody like Larry Elmore, handle the character design.

It would combine the best things about (the good) Final Fantasy games - their story and music - with a solidly programmed system that could easily be tweaked to mimic D&D - from Lost Odyssey - and classic D&D visuals from one of the long time great D&D artists...

Of course, I'm probably the only one that would think it was any good...

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

I say we hand Hironobu Sakaguchi a pen and ask him to write a story set in a specific D&D setting, let Mistwalker program the game, and beg Nobou Uematsu to compose the score... but have an American artist, somebody like Larry Elmore, handle the character design.

It would combine the best things about (the good) Final Fantasy games - their story and music - with a solidly programmed system that could easily be tweaked to mimic D&D - from Lost Odyssey - and classic D&D visuals from one of the long time great D&D artists...

Of course, I'm probably the only one that would think it was any good...



Actually sounds like fun.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Finally got some shots:  kotaku.com/5809694/even-the-giant-flesh+...  
Allow Capcom to regain the license.  "Shadow of Mystera" and "Tower of Doom" were my favorite D&D games and what got me into D&D in the first place.
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