Homebrew Request: The Orc!

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Hello homebrewers!

I was looking at some of the MM races, and I think we can expand them a bit, don't you?
Are there any homebrewed racial feats, updates, fixes or paragon paths for the orc? If not, can we make some?!

Post links, feat suggestions, paragon path ideas and, if you feel like it, a full paragon path based on the orc.

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This is what we got so far (as of 4th of june, 2011), what racial features we're keeping and which one we aren't is still unsure to me, i'll be posting them all here. Call it "display mode", if you will.

ORC

Avarage Height:
 6'0'' - 6'5''
Avarage Weight: 200 - 230

Ability scores: +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom or +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Giant
Skills: +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate
Ferocity: You do not take a penalty to attack rolls for being prone or restrained. In addition, at the start of your turn, you can make a saving throw against each effect currently rendering you weakened. If you fail the saving throw you do not make a saving throw against the effect at the end of your turn.
Combat Sprint: You gain a +2 bonus to speed when running or charging.
Blood Lust: The first time you deal damage in an encounter, you gain 5 temporary hit points. The temporary hit points increase to 10 at 11th level and to 15 at 21st level.
























Warrior's SurgeOrc Racial Power
A roar, an attack, with bestial vigor you keep fighting for as long as you have to.
Encounter Healing
Free Action - Personal
Trigger: You target an enemy with an at-will power.
Effect: If the triggering attack hits you can spend a healing surge to regain hit points equal to your healing surge value.


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FEATS

Show

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Orc Weapon Training
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all simple and military spears. You gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with spears. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.

Fearsome Surge
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, each enemy adjacent to you is marked until the end of your next turn.

Mass Surge
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you use you warrior's surge, one ally within 5 squares of you gains temporary 5 hit points. The temporary hit points increase to 10 at 11th level and 15 at 21st level.

Ruthless Surge
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite:
Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power.
Benefit: When you use your Warrior's surge, the at-will gains the rattling and invigorating keywords.

Improved Surge
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you successfully use your Warrior's Surge racial power you regain extra hit points equal to the higher of your Wisdom or Charisma modifier.

Nameless Feat
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Sureg racial power
Benefit: When the attack triggering your Warrior's Surge racial power misses you still regain hit points equal to the higher of your wisdom or charisma modifier.

Nameless Feat
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power.
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, one ally within 5 squares of you gains a +1 power bonus to his next attack roll and a +2 power bonus to his next damage roll before the end of his next turn.

Unstoppable Warrior
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge to spend a healing surge you can forgo regaing hit points and instead end any ongoing damage or any dazed, slowed or weakened condition currently affecting you.

Nameless Feat
Heroic Tier

Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to speed and attack rolls while bloodied.

Furious Dash
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You do not take the normal attack roll penalties from taking the run action.

Blood Fury
Heroic Tier
Prerequisites: Orc
Benefit: The first time you deal damage in an encounter you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

Improved Blood Lust
Heroic Tier
Prerequisites: Orc
Benefit: You gain 5 extra temporary hit points from your Blood Lust racial feature.

Berserker's Wind
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite:
Orc
Benefit: The first time you deal damage after using you second wind in an encounter you gain temporary hit points equal to the temporary hit points granted by your Blood Lust racial feature.

Roar of the Horde
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you use you warrior's surge, each ally within 5 squares of you gains a +1 power bonus to his or her attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Ok let's fix it first since it's a MM write up and not a PC write up.

I'm seeing +2 Str, +2 Con or Wis, because orc culture rewards those stats, idolizes the classes that use them, and because frankly dex, cha, and int really don't fit. 

 
All right let's see here... Both the existing racial feature and the existing racial power are far too class- and role-specific to make for a good PC race, but we can make some modifications to them and maybe add in a few extras. The difficult part is probably going to be making them substantially different from Half-Orcs. Here's my attempt at an Orc race...





ORC

Average Height:
6'0" - 6'5"
Average Weight:
200 lb. - 230 lb.

Ability Scores:
+2 Strength and either +2 Constitution or +2 Charisma
Size:
Medium
Speed:
6 Squares
Vision:
Low-Light

Languages:
Common, Giant
Skills:
+2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate
Ferocity: You do not take a penalty to attack rolls for being prone or restrained. When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half damage.
Orc Fury: If you selected to gain a +2 racial bonus to Constitution instead of Charisma, then you gain a +1 racial bonus to your Will Defense.
Running Charge:
You gain the running charge power.
Warrior's Surge:
You gain the warrior's surge power.

Running Charge
(Orc Racial Power)
Encounter
Free Action, Personal
Trigger:
You take an action that allows you to move a number of squares based on your speed. (This includes the charge, crawl, run, squeeze, and walk actions, among others.)
Effect:
You gain a +2 bonus to your speed for the duration of the action.

Warrior's Surge
(Orc Racial Power)
Encounter * Healing
Free Action, Personal
Trigger:
Immediately before you make an attack roll with an at-will attack power.
Effect: If that attack roll hits its target, then you can spend a healing surge.





I decided on CHA over DEX because I thought that DEX was just make it too similar to the Half-Orc. CHA may seem weird at first to some people who associate it most with Attractiveness or Diplomacy, but remember that Intimidate is also based off of CHA and that a Barbarian build is as well. I can see an argument for WIS too, but it's just so overdone.

I selected the skill bonuses simply by checking the Monster Manual entry for Orcs. Almost all of the Orcs seems to have listed skill bonuses to Endurance and Intimidate, so it seemed like the logical choice. This is unfortunately identical to the Half-Orc skill bonuses, but as long as we can make the rest of the race different enough, that won't be too big of a problem.

Ferocity is the only "original" feature in the race. I have a bunch of random racial feature concepts stockpiled, and this one seemed appropriate enough.

Orc Fury exists to mitigate the problem that a STR/CON Orc will be behind on defenses compared to a STR/CHA Orc. Basically, it's there for the same reason that the original Warforged got a Will defense bonus while the original Dragonborn did not.

Now, I know what you're thinking: "Two racial encounter powers? That's ridiculous!" Actually, it's really not that bad. Many races have racial features that are basically used once per encounter in addition to their racial encounter power. Heck, the Half-Orc itself is a fine example of this. It really makes no difference whether the feature is actually formatted as a power or not. I simply decided to format this feature as a power because I thought that it would be easier to express this way. As you have probably guessed, Running Charge is based on the feature that the Orcs have in the Monster Manual by the same name. The significant difference here is that it has been made usable by all classes and roles. As a result, it even has expanded uses for weapon-using, STR-primary, melee classes and roles, the only classes and roles that could use the original version of the feature.

And finally, the "real" racial encounter power has been modified so that it can be better utilized by members of any class or role, regardless of accessory, range, or primary attack stat. Again, this has even resulted in expanded utility for members of weapon-using, STR-primary, melee classes and roles.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!

I selected the skill bonuses simply by checking the Monster Manual entry for Orcs. Almost all of the Orcs seems to have listed skill bonuses to Endurance and Intimidate, so it seemed like the logical choice. This is unfortunately identical to the Half-Orc skill bonuses, but as long as we can make the rest of the race different enough, that won't be too big of a problem.



I like everything but this. I see Half-Orcs getting Intimidate because they are savy enough with social situations to flex their scary muscles- but orcs aren't. Orcs are brutes, and don't need the Intimidate bonus (think of Andrea the giant- huge dude, but surprisingly non-threatening, unless he wanted to be). Athletics + Endurance seems like a more fitting bonus for a race that solves all of their situations with brute strength.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
I totally disagree. In fact, Intimidate was the no-brainer for me, not Endurance. I was originally going to do Athletics and Intimidate before checking out the Monster Manual entries. Orcs are scary, plain and simple, and I see no reason to believe they aren't smart enough to know that and to exploit that. A character with an INT of 6 would be smart enough to realize that the very visible threat of violence implied by flexing some muscle gets stuff done.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
To non-orcs? Sure they're scary, and they probably know they should show off their teeth and flex. But in orc culture I don't know that they do alot of communicating that doesn't involve an actual physical contest. I'm no expert though, and am basing this just on my experience with orcs in (just) 4th ed.
Plus (and I think most importantly, design wise), Athletics + Endurance isn't covered by halfoOrcs, goliaths, minotaurs, muls, or warforged. Which gives the orcs a bit more of a unique design space (I'm aware Longtooth Shifters have those same skill bonuses) and reinforces the idea that these guys are brutes.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
Wow, I like what you've done

Orcs are actually quite religious, and all the orc spellcasters you'll find are primal spellcaster that use WIS as their primary. What does STR/CHA give use when it comes to choosing classes? Warlords, Weaponmasters? And STR/WIS? Rangers, Seekers? If we look at the classes the attributes go with we can easily see what attributes we want to use. Like rampant said, their culter and class selection does imply STR CON/WIS or CON STR/WIS.

 "When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half damage." is a nice feature but not very traditional. The rest of the Ferocity feature is nice though.

Change Running Charge into a feature, even though you simply picked the "Power Format" it's still not traditional.
Running Charge: Once per encounter you can make a move action with a +2 bonus to speed.


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Warrior's Surge      Orc Racial Power
Encounter · Healing
Free Action   Personal
Trigger:
 You make an attack roll.
Effect: If the attacks hits you can spend a healing surge.

This can be modified into "You gain a +2 power bonus to the attack roll
html_removed
and you can spend a healing surge if the attack hits.
(wording based on Thief's "Backstab")

Orc fury is wonderful.

Can we talk about feats soon ^^ 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
To non-orcs? Sure they're scary, and they probably know they should show off their teeth and flex.

Exactly. All racial statistics are what you get what you compare a race to other races. Orcs don't get +2 STR because their strong compared to other Orcs. That don't make any sense. They get +2 STR because they're strong compared to other races. Likewise, Orcs ore are more intimidating than other races, and so they should get an bonus to Intimidate. You might say the same thing about Athletics, but I think that's only imagined because of the STR bonus to begin with. Beyond being stronger than other races as a base, I don't see any further reason to assume they're as Athletic as, say, Goliath or Shifter.

But in orc culture I don't know that they do alot of communicating that doesn't involve an actual physical contest.

There are no cultures that operate like that, fantasy or otherwise. Cultures that operate only through physical contest are not advanced enough to be considered cultures or even higher animals.

Orcs are actually quite religious, and all the orc spellcasters you'll find are primal spellcaster that use WIS as their primary. What does STR/CHA give use when it comes to choosing classes? Warlords, Weaponmasters? And STR/WIS? Rangers, Seekers? If we look at the classes the attributes go with we can easily see what attributes we want to use.

I do and always have disagreed with this method of deciding on ability score bonuses. I'm of the opinion that racial ability score bonuses need first and foremost to make sense in the context of comparing a race to other races, not in the context of comparing a race to desirable classes. If we did that, Dwarves would originally have been STR/CON and Tieflings would have been CON/INT, neither of which make as much thematic sense as what they actually had. It doesn't matter because Dwarves operate fantastically as Fighters, Tieflings operate fantastically as Infernal Warlocks, and a STR//CON/CHA Orc would operate fantastically as a Shaman.

Besides, even if you do look at it from a class perspective, STR/CHA has a lot to offer. It would make them fantastic Warlords, the leader class that best fits their flavor, it would make them wonderful Paladins, the only Divine class I see them fitting into very well anyway, and it would expand their versatility significantly in the class that they were and always have been made for: Barbarian.

Like I said, though, I can see the argument for WIS. But I think that if they get WIS, then they definitely NEED to get the Intimidate bonus.

"When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half damage." is a nice feature but not very traditional.
Change Running Charge into a feature, even though you simply picked the "Power Format" it's still not traditional.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't mind if something isn't traditional. If a race isn't going to offer something new, then what's the point?

Running Charge: Once per encounter you can make a move action with a +2 bonus to speed.

This doesn't at all do the same thing as the power. For one, it don't allow the bonus to apply to a charge attack, which entirely negates the point of modeling it after (or calling it) Running Charge to begin with. It's difficult to model that identical mechanical effect with a non-power, but what you have there is objectively inferior, power-wise. If you really want to try to twist the same effect into a non-power, it would look something like...

Running Charge: Once per encounter when you take an action that allows you to move a number of squares based on your speed (this includes the charge, crawl, run, squeeze, and walk actions, among others), you gain a +2 bonus to your speed for the duration of the action.

. . . Which I guess isn't actually that bad, come to think of it. The only problem is that it leads to some action confusion.

Warrior's Surge      Orc Racial Power

Encounter · Healing
Free Action   Personal
Trigger:
 You make an attack roll.
Effect: If the attacks hits you can spend a healing surge.
This is far too strong. Although it pigeon-holed the Orc to an unacceptable degree, the original racial power in the Monster Manual was actually more or less balanced. My version of it was actually already an upgrade, but what you have here is just far too powerful. The reason that I did the trigger the way that I did was because otherwise you could use this power after you already know what you've rolled. In other words, you could simply wait until you roll pretty high on the D20 and basically know that you're going to hit for a garunteed healing surge, which is far more powerful than what the original power allowed. Furthermore, notice that the way that the power originally works, it's pretty much just a melee basic attack without the healing surge thing. I already gave it an upgrade by allowing it to work with at-will attack powers (a necessary upgrade so that implement-users could also benefit), but allowing this effect to apply to powers even more powerful than that is just overboard.

As for racial feats, those should always be worked on after the base racial stat block is completed so that you know everything that you have to work with.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
To non-orcs? Sure they're scary, and they probably know they should show off their teeth and flex.

Exactly. All racial statistics are what you get what you compare a race to other races. Orcs don't get +2 STR because their strong compared to other Orcs. That don't make any sense. They get +2 STR because they're strong compared to other races. Likewise, Orcs ore are more intimidating than other races, and so they should get an bonus to Intimidate. You might say the same thing about Athletics, but I think that's only imagined because of the STR bonus to begin with. Beyond being stronger than other races as a base, I don't see any further reason to assume they're as Athletic as, say, Goliath or Shifter.



Ehh, yeah. What I mean is that the orcs don't practice Intimidate amongst eachother since they fight everything out. Races with the Intimidate bonus are either naturally frightening and unique (e.g. dragonborn, who look like dragons, and warforged, who are frickin' robots) or practice Intimidate all the time (e.g. drow).  Not as Athletic as goliaths or shifters? They live in the same places, and literally spend their entire lives in a constant state of physical training or stress.


But in orc culture I don't know that they do alot of communicating that doesn't involve an actual physical contest.

There are no cultures that operate like that, fantasy or otherwise. Cultures that operate only through physical contest are not advanced enough to be considered cultures or even higher animals.



Orcs are described as being too lazy to manage anything other than simple stone and metalwork. And I never said they operate only through physical contest, I said they don't do alot of communication that doesn't involve physical contest. Orcs settle conflict with fights, or tests of strength, not words (harsh or otherwise).

All of the fluff aside, the only race that gets Athletics and Endurance isn't a "brute" race, like orcs (and goliaths, warforged, and muls), and there are already 3 races with Endurance and Intimidate (including the half-orc). The design space is there to be filled, and the orcs are the perfect race for it.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
> Ferocity: You do not take a penalty to attack rolls for being prone or
> restrained. When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half
> damage.

Theme-wise, restrained makes some sense but prone is a little more difficult to picture. It's also such a common condition that I'd be wary of negating the penalty automatically.

In the case of Weakened, figuring 2/3 is more work than 1/2 and there's nothing else that uses 2/3 like that. I'd be more inclined to borrow what the Kalashtar (IIRC) had: you can save against weakened at the start of your turn rather than at the end of your turn; if that's not quite enough then allow the save to be made even when the condition doesn't normally allow it (like Superior Will vs Dazed).

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> Running Charge: You gain the running charge power.

This seems kind of clumsy, and it doesn't really have anything to do with charging.

I'd be more inclined to give them something similar to one of the HoFL feats: When a combat encounter begins, you gain a +2 bonus to speed during your first turn.

--

> Warrior's Surge: You gain the warrior's surge power.

I'd be more inclined to make this reliable but circumstantial. IE:

Warrior's Surge (Orc Racial Power)
Encounter * Healing
Free Action * Personal
Trigger: While bloodied, you reduce a nonminion enemy to 0 HP.
Effect: You spend a healing surge.

This also gives it a clearer theme: an orc is reinvigorated when he brings down a (nontrivial) adversary.
What I mean is that the orcs don't practice Intimidate amongst each other since they fight everything out.

I don't see any reason to believe that at all. In fact, I see plenty of evidence to the contrary, with pretty much every Orc in the Monster Manual being trained in Intimidate. Even the most primitive of cultures knows that it's better to settle a dispute through psychological and social methods (the most primitive of which would be intimidation) rather than through risky physical altercations that can cause permanent injury.

Races with the Intimidate bonus are either naturally frightening and unique (e.g. dragonborn, who look like dragons, and warforged, who are frickin' robots) or practice Intimidate all the time (e.g. drow).

As far as I know, Orcs are both. They're naturally frightening and it's their primary method of influencing one another in their society.

Not as Athletic as goliaths or shifters? They live in the same places...

Do they? o_O
Fine then. Give them Athletics instead of Endurance. ^_^

I said they don't do alot of communication that doesn't involve physical contest. Orcs settle conflict with fights, or tests of strength, not words (harsh or otherwise).

No, like many primitive races, Orcs settle the majority of their conflicts with the threat of fighting and the threat of physical conflict and the threat of dangerous tests of strength. Again, animals far less intelligent than Orcs realize that there's no reason to take a risk when threats are sufficient.

All of the fluff aside, the only race that gets Athletics and Endurance isn't a "brute" race, like orcs (and goliaths, warforged, and muls), and there are already 3 races with Endurance and Intimidate (including the half-orc). The design space is there to be filled, and the orcs are the perfect race for it.

Then I'd far more easily accept Athletics and Intimidate, a much more unique skill bonus combination.

Hmm... STR // CON / WIS with +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate? Sounds like a fair enough compromise to me. I still dislike that their ability score bonuses are identical to Goliaths and Minotaurs (meaning that all of the STR-primary races would be STR // CON / WIS), but I can live with it.

Theme-wise, restrained makes some sense but prone is a little more difficult to picture. It's also such a common condition that I'd be wary of negating the penalty automatically.

The penalty to attack rolls is far from the only penalty for being prone. A prone character also grants combat advantage to enemies' melee attack, and a prone character can only move by crawling, teleporting, or being pushed, pulled, or slid. Negating the penalty to attack rolls for being prone is not overpowered in the least. As for thematically, I just don't think that a little thing like being prone would stop an Orc from fighting furiously. Heck, it might even lead to the half-orc fighting more furiously (thus negating the penalty).

In the case of Weakened, figuring 2/3 is more work than 1/2 and there's nothing else that uses 2/3 like that.

I have a hard time believing that anybody who in capable of doing enough math to play D&D would really have difficulty figuring out two-thirds of a number, but I digress. I just think that the thematic idea of their mitagating what would normally be penalties to their attack and damage seems appropriate for their reputation of ferocity, but another method of dealing with being weakened could work as well. I just personally dislike repeating mechanics of other races when something original could easily be done instead.

This seems kind of clumsy, and it doesn't really have anything to do with charging.

It shouldn't have anything to do with charging, not exclusively anyway. A racial feature that only benefits charging is a racial feature that's useless to any character that doesn't select a STR-primary, weapon-using, melee class, and that's bad. If a racial feature is going to reference charging, then it sure as hell better also allow for alternative uses so it's not useless to other classes and roles.

I'd be more inclined to give them something similar to one of the HoFL feats: When a combat encounter begins, you gain a +2 bonus to speed during your first turn.

Hmm... Something like that could work, but the problem with triggered speed bonuses is that they're almost never going to trigger when you really want them, which is exactly why my original version allowed it to be used at any time. If the complexity was the issue, then it's a simple matter to make it simpler (though much more powerful) by just changing it to something like:

Running Charge: Once per encounter at the start of your turn, you can gain a +2 racial bonus to speed until the end of your turn.

Warrior's Surge (Orc Racial Power)
Encounter * Healing
Free Action * Personal
Trigger: While bloodied, you reduce a nonminion enemy to 0 HP.
Effect: You spend a healing surge.

I think it's funny that you call this reliable, because this is exactly the sort of power that looks good on paper but that could easily end up being very unreliable in practice. Its trigger is just too restrictive for a power that's supposed to be able to get used in most if not every encounter. The general concept could work if we're okay with straying so far from the mechanics of the original power in the Monster Manual, but I'd broaden it's use to something like...

Warrior's Surge (Orc Racial Power)
Encounter * Healing
Free Action, Personal
Trigger: You bloody and enemy or reduce a non-minion enemy to 0 HP.
Effect: You spend a healing surge.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
> Negating the penalty to attack rolls for being prone is not overpowered in the
> least.

The character can drop prone and freely engage in ranged attacks while having a defense boost against return fire - without needing to stand up each turn, so he's able to use all of his other actions. Ironically, this makes them great snipers, which isn't quite what one associates with 'ferocity'.

-----

> I just personally dislike repeating mechanics of other races when something
> original could easily be done instead.

There's nothing wrong with re-using what works. (Otherwise, why not do something original instead of giving the Str/Con orc a +1 Will boost? That's a mechanic that other races use, isn't it?)

As for the math: halving something is mentally quicker and easier than 2/3ing something, no matter the math talent involved, and the system doesn't 2/3 things anywhere else for that very reason.

Save-at-start-of-turn is (as far as I know) not available to anyone else for Weakened (other than generic saves such as the warden's). The Kalashtar have it for dominate and Superior Will gives it for dazed/stunned, but the orc is still the only one to get it for that particular effect.

-----

> A racial feature that only benefits charging is a racial feature that's

Etc, etc, yes. You've pontificated about this often enough.

I said nothing about making it charge-based, though, only that this feature has a theme mismatch when it's called "Running Charge" and doesn't have anything to do with charging or even with running. It could just as easily be called "Warrior's Wriggle" when you're crawling or squeezing.

Give it a new name, and since it's awkward as-is, replace it with a generic +2 speed during your first turn, or at least write a cleaner version. Even...

Warrior's Rush
Encounter
Free Action, Personal
Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to your speed until the end of your turn.

...would be preferable.

-----

> I think it's funny that you call this reliable,

I call it reliable because it always works when it's triggered, as opposed to the "oops, I missed" version.

I don't mind the trigger conditions being more generous, but since you were concerned about the effect being too powerful, I went with a limited one.
(Off Topic: How are you writing your posts that when I quote you it always just ends up as one big block of texts without any spaces at all? O_o)

The character can drop prone and freely engage in ranged attacks while having a defense boost against return fire - without needing to stand up each turn, so he's able to use all of his other actions.

I don't see any problem with this. You can do the same thing with a level 7 item (i.e., not very powerful). And again, it's not like it doesn't have significant costs. There are few encounters that don't include melee enemies of any kind that would love the combat advantage they gain against such a prone character, and ranged enemies are often very mobile such that only being able to get around by crawling is going to be a pain.

Give it a new name, and since it's awkward as-is, replace it with a generic +2 speed during your first turn, or at least write a cleaner version. Even...

Warrior's Rush
Encounter
Free Action, Personal
Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to your speed until the end of your turn.

...would be preferable.

Looks fine to me. Definitely more powerful than the original version, but not so much that I think that it's problematic. Heck, it's actually functionally identical to what I described in my last post but in power format and with a different name. About the name though, I would reconsider using "Warrior's" twice for once race. How about something like... Savage Sprint? Brutal Rush? Vicious Dash?

I call it reliable because it always works when it's triggered, as opposed to the "oops, I missed" version.

Ah, all right, that makes more sense then.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Wow, now I have NO idea if I think the Orc should be a STR CON/CHA or STR CON/WIS :S 

Neutronium has a point. I too think that ferocity should allow a save against the weakened condition at the start of your turn, even if that condition doesn't normally end on a save. 


4e is "idiot proof", therefor 2/3 doesn't work. If you need a calculator for a class feature, that class feature ain't 4e. Many people play with kids, and those kids should not have to use a calculator to play their race. Just like you want your racial powers to work for everyone I want my class features to be easy to remember and apply.


@ Neutronium Dragon on Warrior's Surge: This is a good way to balance it.


I must agree that orcs should recieve +2 to intimidate. Check their entry in the Monster's Vault. There it states that the only way to befriend a hostile orc is to intimidate him. He will then look at you as a superior or equal and so forth...


@ Crimson: I like how you feel that racial powers should work for every single class.


@ Netronium: You're right. Negating the prone-penalty makes the orc more of a sniper then a mad-fighter.


Just like backstab, my warrior's surge requires you to announce that you'll use it before the attack roll. If you think it's OP I can fix that.
You're right, Running Charge that doesn't allow a charge is stupid. However, run, squeeze, and walk all use a move action.

SO, UPDATES SO FAR:

Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics and Intimidate
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution or +2 Wisdom
Running Charge: Once per encounter you can make a move action or a charge with a +2 bonus to speed.
There, clean and all-purpose.
Ferocity: If you are weakened, you can make a saving throw at the start of your turn to end that effect, even if the effect doesn't normally end on a save.

Warrior's Surge      Orc Racial Power
Encounter · Healing
Free Action   Personal
Trigger: 
You target an enemy with an at-will attack power.
Effect: If the attack hits you use your second wind.
(wording is based on Dwarven Resiliance and Holy Smite)

So, everything cleaned up? Crimson, would you mind editing your Orc to match the updates? 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
What's going on with the forum right now that all of your posts are coming out weird? All of these "html_removed" things everywhere and everything's in weird paragraphs. Are you copy/pasting from a word processor or something?

Neutronium has a point. I too think that ferocity should allow a save against the weakened condition at the start of your turn, even if that condition doesn't normally end on a save.

4e is "idiot proof", therefor 2/3 doesn't work. If you need a calculator for a class feature, that class feature ain't 4e. Many people play with kids, and those kids should not have to use a calculator to play their race. Just like you want your racial powers to work for everyone I want my class features to be easy to remember and apply.

Fair enough.

You're right. Negating the prone-penalty makes the orc more of a sniper then a mad-fighter.

I have yet to be convinced.

Just like backstab, my warrior's surge requires you to announce that you'll use it before the attack roll.

Backstab doesn't work like that and neither does your power. As they are, both can certainly be applied after the attack is rolled and even after the DM tell you whether or not the attack has hit. If you don't believe me, please check with the Rules forum. Elven Accuracy, Wand of Accuracy, Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes, and much more all work this way.

Running Charge: Once per encounter you can make a move action or a charge with a +2 bonus to speed.

There, clean and all-purpose.
I'd disagree that it's clean, but I guess it gets the job done.

Warrior's Surge      Orc Racial Power

Encounter · Healing
Free Action   Personal
Trigger:
 You make an attack roll.
Effect: If the attack hits you use your second wind.
The Dwarf already has a very powerful racial power, and this is arguably better considering that it's a Free Action as opposed to a Minor Action.

This still requires you to decide to use the power before you make the attack roll (RAW). The trigger is "make an attack roll" not "you see the results of an attack roll".

That is not and has never in the history of 4E been RAW.

Crimson, would you mind editing your Orc to match the updates?

I see no reason to. I think that it'd be much better to put it up in the first post.

EDIT:
Ferocity: If you are weakened, you can make a saving throw at the start of your turn to end that effect, even if the effect doesn't normally end on a save.

I feel like this is really underpowered for a racial feature. I mean, Weakened isn't all the common of a condition, and even when it does come up, it's not that detrimental to a character's actions. It was fine when other features were included, but now that it's just this... I just feel like it needs to be more or else it's almost never going to come up.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Sorry, fixed my post. My bad.

I fixed the wording of your original Warrior's surge but since surging as a free action is a bit strong i've limited it to a second wind. If surging as a free action is still too strong. Then I suggest we use Neutronium's version. 

At least but the skill bonuses and the new worded version of warrior's surge into your Orc, just so we feel like we're making progress :D

So, what ability scores did you guys settle on?

Edit:
Yeah, ferocity does feel a bit naked. Can we make it a bonus to something when restrained or grabbed? Perhaps take one from the half-orc and make it give temporary hitpoints when bloodied? Actually, negating the attack bonus for melee and close attacks when prone isn't that big a deal. You still take a penalty for ranged attacks so you have to be close to someone to make use of that feature. This way it cannot be cheesed out to make a sniper :D 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Then I suggest we use Neutronium's version.

Which one? His original or the modified compromise?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Well, I would like to use your original Warrior's Surge with my wording. But if that doesn't work we can change the trigger into "you bloody an enemy (with an attak?)" or "you reduce a non-minion enemy to 0 hit points (with an attack?)"

We could also just have it grant 5 temporary hit points per tier

See my edit above. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Well. I'm going to sleep. It would be wonderful if some of these updates would make it into your post on the first page. Thanks for all the help guys! :D

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
I fixed the wording of your original Warrior's surge but since surging as a free action is a bit strong i've limited it to a second wind.

That's not a limitation. Second Wind is more powerful than just spending a healing surge. For a Second Wind, you spend a healing surge and gain a +2 bonus to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

Perhaps take one from the half-orc and make it give temporary hitpoints when bloodied?

Again, copying features directly from other races sort of defeats the point of home-brewing. If we do that, we might as well just say an Orcs can just be a reflavored Half-Orc. We should be making something original, not patching together pieces of other races.

Actually, negating the attack bonus for melee and close attacks when prone isn't that big a deal. You still take a penalty for ranged attacks so you have to be close to someone to make use of that feature.

This racial feature is then useless to ranged classes and roles. It would be better not to have the feature at all than for it to be exclusively useful only to a relatively small number of character options.

Well, I would like to use your original Warrior's Surge with my wording. But if that doesn't work we can change the trigger into "you bloody an enemy (with an attak?)" or "you reduce a non-minion enemy to 0 hit points (with an attack?)"

Why "or"? Seriously, either of those triggers alone is a lot more restrictive than it sounds. The Vryloka feature has it right, triggering on either killing or bloodying an enemy. Though, comparing getting to spend a healing surge with those effects should give an idea of how powerful it is...

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Crimson: I have no idea what's causing the formatting issues that you're seeing. I'm not seeing them myself.
For what little it's worth, I throw my vote to having WIS as an option somewhere, because of the Eberron druidic sects that Orcs frequently belong to.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
... do we need con?

I mean just because it's in the MM version do we need to use it? 

Str + cha/wis might be fun, and might be more appropriate for the orcish hero archetypes. Orc heroes tend to be religious and/or military leaders: thrall, obould, and such.

 
... do we need con?

I mean just because it's in the MM version do we need to use it? 

Str + cha/wis might be fun, and might be more appropriate for the orcish hero archetypes. Orc heroes tend to be religious and/or military leaders: thrall, obould, and such.

That... I like that... I like that a lot... Yeah, with the Endurance bonus, the flavor of being tough pretty much gets taken care of, and if anybody feels like that point needs to get driven further home, then it can be done so through a racial feature or some sort.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
So far:

· We've decided, that to depict the orc's resistance to the weakened condition getting an extra save is more likely to be accepted by the DnD DM community than upping the "half-damage"-bar to "two-thirds damage". We want this orc to become the homebrewer's official orc race, and having something that most people will nag at makes it not quialify as one. Please change this in your original post since it is just as effective and more official-looking.

· We have three ideas on racial ability score bonuses, which one are we using? This needs to be decided and updated in your post (since that is what people will look at when reading this thread).

· For skills, +2 to Athletics and +2 Intimidate seems appropriate, but if the racial strength bonus becomes optional it should be +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate as mentioned before. You agreed on this so please update it in your original post, even if we have yet to decide the ability scores.

· You said yourself that 65% change of free surging an encounter power was too powerful (although I don't really see why). In your version you still have that, but what I did was simply to limit it to second wind. You can replace "use your second wind" with "spend a healing surge" if you want to keep more of your version intact.

Your racial power:
Warrior's Surge (Orc Racial Power)
Encounter * Healing
Free Action, Personal
Trigger:
 Immediately before you make an attack roll with an at-will attack power.
Effect: If that attack roll hits its target, then you can spend a healing surge.

can be safely replaced with.

Warrior's Surge      Orc Racial Power
Encounter · Healing
Free Action   Personal
Trigger: 
You target an enemy with an at-will attack power.
Effect: If the attack hits you use your second wind.

The "update" does the same thing as yours but balances the surging and uses a trigger that I found on the online compendium (hence the "more official-looking"). This update should make it to your original post, no matter how high your standards are.

If we want to make the orc more durable we can make up fun feats for it (such as "roll twice on endurance tests" or use some of the mul's features). But everything written above can go into your original post. None of these things are actually changes, just superficial changes of the looks of things.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
Orc
Height: Tall enough to see over an elf's ears without getting poked in the eye
Weight: two dwarves plus or minus a gnome

Skills: +2 Endurance and +2 intimidate
Vision: Lowlight
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Language: Common, Giant
Ability Scores: +2 strength, and +2 wisdom or charisma 
Sprint: Whenever you use the run action you gain a +2 bonus to speed.
Blood lust: The first time you damage any enemy in an encounter you gain 5 temporary hp. This increases to 10 temporary hp at level 11, and to 15 temporary hp at level 21.
Warrior's Surge: You gain the warrior's surge power.

Warrior's Surge      Orc Racial Power
Encounter · Healing
Free Action   Personal
Trigger: 
You target an enemy with an at-will attack power.
Effect: If the attack hits you may spend a healing surge to regain hp.

Heroic feat

Reckless dash [racial]
 Requirement: Orc, or just plain stupid
 Benefit: Your bonus from your Sprint racial feature also applies when you charge. In addition you gain an additional +1 to attack rolls when you charge.



That's my suggestion. I'm unsure whether to make Surge reliable, or if that should be a feat.

Language: Common, Is orc a language in 4e still?



Orcs speak Giant.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Ok then, fixed.
Please change this in your original post...
This needs to be decided and updated in your post...
please update it in your original post...
This update should make it to your original post...
But everything written above can go into your original post.

I really don't know why you're going on about my changing my original post. My original post, the third post of the thread, is not the first thing that people will look at when they come into this thread. The first thing that they're going to look at is the first post. Whatever is decided should go into the first post, which I have no control over editing. The remainder of the thread, including my original post, should remain unchanged for archival purposes in case people want to look back at how and why certain decisions were made. Please feel more than free to copy/paste the formatting of my original post if you feel that it looks official enough, but I see no reason to change my original post, which is clearly labeled as my own personal attempt at the race and nothing more.

We want this orc to become the homebrewer's official orc race.

An ambitious endeavor to be sure, but I think that it's a challenge worth tackling.

We have three ideas on racial ability score bonuses, which one are we using?

My personal vote still goes to STR // CON / CHA, but I could certainly settle for STR // CON / WIS contingent on Intimidate being one of their racial skill bonuses. I also like STR // WIS / CHA, but I don't see that being very popular with the community at large.

For skills, +2 to Athletics and +2 Intimidate seems appropriate, but if the racial strength bonus becomes optional it should be +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate as mentioned before.

What? Maybe I missed it, but when did anybody suggest that STR shouldn't be their primary ability score bonus?

In your version you still have that, but what I did was simply to limit it to second wind.

I have already addressed this. This is not a limit. This is an upgrade. It is more powerful, not less. Getting to spend second wind is better than getting to spend a healing surge 95% of the time.

Trigger: 
You target an enemy with an at-will attack power.
I'm concerned that the desired timing of the effect is not explicit enough here. Yes, a perfect understanding of the RAW would lead the power to work as intended, but just as a player should not need a calculator to use their racial power, they should not need a flawless understanding of the RAW to use their racial power. I see nothing wrong with spelling out the intended timing of the effect more clearly.

Sprint: Whenever you use the run action you gain a +2 bonus to speed.

My concern about changing the original feature to one like this is that, while I do of course want to expand its use for more classes and roles, I would also prefer to preserve the feature's original utility and then simply add to that.

Blood lust: The first time you damage any enemy in an encounter you gain 5 temporary hp. This increases to 10 temporary hp at level 11, and to 15 temporary hp at level 21.

I like this. I think that this could work very well. Or if not exactly this then something like this. It's reminiscent of the Half-Orc racial feature, which I like, but not in a way that it doesn't feel unique and original.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I guess I don't understand what the confusion regarding the timing is. You declare intent to use the power after you pick a target but before you roll to see if you hit. Any suggestions for replacement trigger condition text? 

Anyway, what if I change sprint to run and charge?

As for Str + wis/cha, yeah I know dropping the con boost is probably a little radical, but frankly between the endurance bonus, the healing surge power, and bloodlust, the whole "i'm a big tough guy" angle seems covered. 
I guess I don't understand what the confusion regarding the timing is. You declare intent to use the power after you pick a target but before you roll to see if you hit.

Yes, that's how we understand the power, but remember that a lot of people also interpret Backstab or Wand of Accuracy as needing to be declared before the attack roll. Mid-attack triggers aren't as simple as we like to think that they are, especially not to newer players. Therefore, in a case such as this where misinterpreting the power's timing could lead to it being very overpowered, I see no reason not to just come out and say that it should be used before the attack roll. It doesn't alter the effect at all, it doesn't necessarily look any less official or presentable, and it makes the power more clear to less experienced players.

Anyway, what if I change sprint to run and charge?

It still seems too heavily skewed to me. How often does anybody run in combat, especially compared to charging?

As for Str + wis/cha, yeah I know dropping the con boost is probably a little radical, but frankly between the endurance bonus, the healing surge power, and bloodlust, the whole "i'm a big tough guy" angle seems covered. 

I would agree, but again this is one of those accessibility problems that are going to come from people looking a the MM version and then at this one and dismissing it because they can't so the same things that they used to be able to do. =P

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I always saw run's problem as being too many drawbacks for too little pay off. I'm thinking that by increasing the boost, the run option becomes more attractive.

For surge:

Trigger: You target a creature with an at-will attack, before you make the attack roll.


And abilities

Frankly I never read much about individual orcs taking huge hits. The books always present them as being more geared to ignoring lots of smaller wounds better than one big hit. The con boost just doesn't quite scream orc to me. It feels more like the designers just threw it in to be quick.
I updated the first post in this thread, any comments?
Can any1 use their monster manual or monster's vault to figure out that one line of flavour text under "ORC"?

Should we limit warrior's surge to:
Requirement: You must be bloodied?

Should we keep all these racial features?

Can someone start on the flavour text? What we need now is:

PHYSICAL QUALITIES

PLAYING AN ORC

ORC CHARACTERISTICS

Male names
Female names

 

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I wouldn't make surge dependent on bloodying.

However bloodlust needs to be altered, I used "the first time you damage any enemy in an encounter" because i only want it to trigger once. "the first time you damage an enemy in an encounter" could be interpreted to trigger every time you smack someone new.
What about "when you roll initative"?
or "When you hit a creature during the first round of combat"?

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Rolling initiative really doesn't reinforce the whole orcs love killing **** angle. Hitting in the first round is kinda swingy, and their racial power is swingy enough that I wanna keep the other features reliable.

Plus I don't wanna reward lazylords and subtle powers that don't actually do damage. Orcs should hit things. 
This is true, and I agree, but my inner nerd demands that I make the following arguement:

What?! Are you telling me you DON'T connect rolling for initative to annihiliating monsters!?

Is there any way of rewording "The first time you damage a creature with an attack in an encounter, you gain 5 temporary hit points" 

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The first time you deal damage in an encounter, you gain 5 temporary hit points.
Wonderful (that was so simple!), I'm adding it in. Are we done and happy?

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I think the base write up is good.
Some feats would be a good plan, and some fluff, do we wanna do the eye of gruumsh as a PP? 
Let's just start by throwing in ideas :D
The orcs have a chapter in monster's vault, any other books? (I don't have monster's vault on me )

Feats:

· "Roll twice on endurance tests"
·  Many Half-orc feats can be adjusted to fit the orc.
·  look a mul and warforged feats for inspiration.
 

Invigorating Surge
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you use the warrior's surge power to spend a healing surge you can choose to not regain any hitpoints but instead gain temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value. 


Fearsome Surge
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, each enemy adjacent to you is marked until the end of your next turn.


Nameless Feat
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power,
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, one ally adjacent to you gains temporary hit points equal to your strength modifier.


Nameless Feat
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power, any leader class.
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, one ally within 5 squares of you gains a +1 power bonus to his next attack rolls and a +2 power bonus to his next damage roll.


or


Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge racial power, one ally within 5 squares of you gains a bonus equal to your Strength modifier to his or her melee damage rolls against the target until the start of your next turn.


Unstoppable Warrior
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power.
Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge you can forgo spending a healing surge and instead end any ongoing damage or any dazed, slowed, stunned, or weakened condition currently affecting you. 

and stuff like that. Basically "use warrior's surge; get benefit". Benefits might include temporary hit points, bonus to damage and bonus to hit.

What about a "Toughness" feat. I saw one that was a psionic augment. I think it was +3 hit points per tier or something like that. That and a +2 bonus to initative makes up a pretty sweet deal. 


Paragon Paths
· Something berserker-y
· Something gruumsh-y
·

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Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.