New to D&D

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Im sorry im really new to D&D and i was just wondering if these two things were real or did someone make them up:

www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dragonslayer_(3.5e_Class)

www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dragon_Slayer_(3.5e_Class)

If either of these are real I think this is what i would pick, they seem fun and interesting

Those are both what is known as a homebrew class. Basically someone made them on their own, and put them on the internet for people to use for free.


Many groups and DMs play with a lot of homebrew material and if you like the look of that class, ask your DM about letting you use it.


**OP edited to simply have one class.

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"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

Sorry i had problems with the link, but both are up again. So these are some made up stuff that someone made? It seems like a few things are missing once you reach a lvl higher than 20 how would i fix that later on?
The links you included are for D&D 3.5, which only lists things up to level 20 for most classes.  4th edition, which is what these forums focus on, does include material up to level 30 but you won't be able to use the material from those links in 4th because the rules are completely incompatible between the two.

To confirm, which edition are you going to be playing?  3.5, or 4?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
honestly i have no idea. I really am noob when it comes to this. How long does it usually take to even reach lvl 20 or 30?

Also it seems that the one where you are turned into an elemental has stuff up to lvl 30. Maybe it would be easier to use. Though i would love to play as the other one just for breathing fire and eatting it lol
You have to determine which version you are playing before you design a character. Do you have a group to play with yet? They should know. Or, if everyone is new to the game, you should just pick one.

In that case 4e is probably easier since that's the current one and thus the easiest to get rulebooks for. 
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
Any books that you might have will say their edition on the cover.  We won't be able to give too much specifically useful information unless we know which version you're asking about.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
hmmm let me see if i can get a hold of my friend...most of us our new except for maybe one of them. They just asked me to play with them the other day, i was kinda reluctant at first, but they said it would help me with my fictional writing so i agreed. Now i find myself kinda getting into it lol
Ok i just got a response from him and he said it is its 4 since it is the most recent one
Ok i just got a response from him and he said it is its 4 since it is the most recent one

Cool.

You'll probably find that the class you linked to may not be able to be perfectly reproduced in 4th Edition (4e), but you can certainly make a very similarly themed character.

One way would be to play a Dragonsoul Sorcerer. This is a class that is in the 4th Edition Player's Handbook 2. It is mostly a spell casting type of character, with elemental types of attacks. There are some options to use a weapon and some powers can be used as weapon attacks. Nothing unarmed though. Monks are the most useful unarmed fighting class, but they lack the spell casting aspect. So you might try one of those two classes. There are some homebrew classes around online (there is a homebrew forum here too) but I really don't know what you'll find there.

Have fun!
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Would there be someone who could help me recreate one of those for 4? How would you go about doing that anyway? do you make up the moves and damage? or is there a procedure that you have to go through? What classes would you recommend for a new player like me?
Would there be someone who could help me recreate one of those for 4? How would you go about doing that anyway? do you make up the moves and damage? or is there a procedure that you have to go through? What classes would you recommend for a new player like me?

Well, the best way to learn to create 4e classes would be to play a bit and study the rules. It is hard to describe what the design process would be like without referencing specific game elements.

Every class in 4e has basically 2 main components, powers, and class features. Class features help define how a character of that class basically operates, they are things every member of that class gets. Powers are things you can choose at different levels, like spells, or attack routines, etc.

First though you would decide what power source your class used, Arcane, Martial, Divine, or Primal. That provides a general theme (IE is the character a wizardy sort of guy, a warrior, a devotee of the gods, or a nature type guy). You also pick a primary combat role, Striker, Controller, Leader, or Defender. That helps define the sort of job you do in combat within the adventuring party. Strikers focus on damage, controllers manage the battlefield, leaders heal, debuff the enemy, and buff allies, and defenders generally act as front-line guys that protect other party members.

Again though, you're probably best off reading at least Player's Handbook 1, and playing some. There is no specific process for designing classes, you kind of have to play some and get to understand how they work.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Would there be someone who could help me recreate one of those for 4?



If you're actually interested in trying to make your own class (something I do not recommend for a beginner to the game) you could try the homebrew forum.  Class design is really complex and doing it right requires a very, very thorough understanding of the rules and how the game plays.


 How would you go about doing that anyway? do you make up the moves and damage? or is there a procedure that you have to go through? What classes would you recommend for a new player like me?



The sorceror, which has already been recommended to you, is not a bad class for a newbie.  It's a damage-dealing class that relies on static damage bonuses, so there's no marking/cursing/quarry mechanic to keep track of, something I find that newbies often have a hard time managing.  The slayer is a really simple class that does a lot of damage and is easy to play, it's in Heroes of the Fallen Lands.

i was looking at the different classes and i saw someone make a dragon born Sorcerer. His stats help out the dragon breath skill on top of his attacks being much stronger cause of the extra str bonus. Also being dragon born he is able to have a higher defense than most other sorcerers.
i was looking at the different classes and i saw someone make a dragon born Sorcerer. His stats help out the dragon breath skill on top of his attacks being much stronger cause of the extra str bonus. Also being dragon born he is able to have a higher defense than most other sorcerers.

Yes, Dragonborn is a very good racial fit for sorceror if you take the dragon magic or cosmic magic class features.  It's not the only good race for that class, though. Drow make very good wild magic or storm magic sorcerors, and humans are good at any kind of sorcery.
Even if you pick a race that's bad at it, like say.. a warforged sorcerer (possibly descrbing thigns as flamethrows, lightning arcs, bombs and rockets), you can still play an effective (and possibly more fun) character.  Not as effective as the dragonborn, but still able to hold it's own in a group.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

what do you mean by flamthrowers, bombs, and rockets?

*EDIT: Also what are some fun builds that are really rediculous, as in just unusual and fun (Race and Class please)

Mechanics don't necessarilly dictate the description.

A sorcerer power (like Chaos Bolt) has a default description.  that description is there to give you a place to start from or a common point of reference if you'd like, but A chaos bolt need not be a bolt of chaos.

Looking at the mechanics, it hits one target then may hit another, then may hit another, and so on.  If i want to go with a "bolt of chaotic magic" like the book says, I can, but if I decide that my wand is... say... a pistol instead, then that power could easily be a lucky shot that ricochets off my enemies to strike another.

(for example) 
Jackonomicon™ It's not always safe for work, but it's great for play. It's my blog, yo.

what do you mean by flamthrowers, bombs, and rockets?




4E has done quite a bit to separate mechanics from fluff. Powers do what they say they do, but you are free to describe them in any way that makes sense to you.

One of the PC races is the Warforged. Originally developed for the Eberron campaign setting, Warforged were constructs of wood and metal, given life and, accidentally, sentience via magic. They were specifically created to fight in the 100 Years War. After a century of battle, Eberron now finds itself in a time of relative peace. The Warforged were ordered dismantled, until someone realized that they had free will. So instead, the Warforged were set free, and now they attempt to find a place for themselves in a world largely at peace when they were built for war.

In other worlds, Warforged can be whatever you please. I have made Warforged who are carved from a single dead tree and animated by a powerful Druid to protect the forest, I have made Warforged who are delicate clockwork machines forged by a mad, but brilliant, Dwarf Artificer, I have made Warforged who are actually the disposessed souls of a city that lies on the edge of the Elemental Chaos, who were implanted into bronze statues and animated by magical lightning.

By the same token, powers can be refluffed. The flamethrowers, bombs and rockets could be the result of that mad Dwarf Artificer. Rather than being innately magical or magically trained, the Warforged is a Sorcerer because it is the class that most closely mirrors the abilities implanted within him by his creator.
So let me see if i got this right. Lets say early on i use dragon spray for a dragon sorcerer (ice type) since its a short range muti person hit move (i think if i read it right). Can i say something like "He gathers ice power into his fist and punched the first guy, and when he did it spread to everyone around"??? Or am i just being dumb now? lol
So let me see if i got this right. Lets say early on i use dragon spray for a dragon sorcerer (ice type) since its a short range muti person hit move (i think if i read it right). Can i say something like "He gathers ice power into his fist and punched the first guy, and when he did it spread to everyone around"??? Or am i just being dumb now? lol



Sure you can. you might want to wait until you have made the attack rolls before describing it thus, as the actual results may differ from your description if you wind up missing the guy you "punched," but still hit everyone else in the area.

For me, most of my Dragon Soul Sorcerers are much more Dhalsim (Yoga Flaaame!) than Ryu (Hadoken!).

Edit: Thanks Red-Jack. It's been a while since I played Street Fighter. I forgot the name of Dhalsim's move, I just remembered what it looked like.

Sounds totally cool to me...


Hrm.  who made the thread about the fist wizard? 


Important thing to remember about changing the descriptions:
1.  Your DM really has the final say.  Hopefully they'll understand the importance of encouraging your imagination and let you go with it.
2.  The rest of the group also has some say in it.  For instance if you described the same power as "magical farts" then some of the players might feel it was a little silly and they weren't totally comfortable with it.  Reember that the same applies to you, and you should look for more ways to explain why their description fits the mechanics than why it "can't."  Keep an open mind and you'll usually get the same in return.
3.  Your changed description shouldn't change the mechanics, and you shouldn't expect it to.

Say I made a dex/charisma based sorcerer with a bunch of blast spells, and decided to use a description like yours.  Just because I am describing it as a punch doesn't mean that I should get to (or expect to) add strength to my damage because maybe I punched them.


EDIT: Yoga flaaame. 
Jackonomicon™ It's not always safe for work, but it's great for play. It's my blog, yo.
hahaha nice that would make each skill sound much cooler ^_^. The reason i said ice was cause in any kinda RPG i play i always find that fire usually has the strongest attack, but most monster and bosses usually have the most resistance to fire. I also like this build i found on the website here that is a combination of ice and lightning which just sounds bad ass haha. Here is the link the build is the very last one on the first post:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
hahaha nice that would make each skill sound much cooler ^_^. The reason i said ice was cause in any kinda RPG i play i always find that fire usually has the strongest attack, but most monster and bosses usually have the most resistance to fire. I also like this build i found on the website here that is a combination of ice and lightning which just sounds bad ass haha. Here is the link the build is the very last one on the first post:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Yeah, when they designed 4e they kind of went against that tendency. Cold is actually a pretty highly optimizable damage type, fire... not so much. That being said there are a couple ways to make a 'pyromancer' that is pretty good. There is a feat, Arcane Admixture, that lets you modify damage types too, so you can for instance turn your fireball into an 'ice ball' when you want to for example. This can be pretty handy if you have say a cold based damage optimized character and want to use a good power that does some other damage type.

That is not dead which may eternal lie
Sounds totally cool to me...


Hrm.  who made the thread about the fist wizard? 


Important thing to remember about changing the descriptions:
1.  Your DM really has the final say.  Hopefully they'll understand the importance of encouraging your imagination and let you go with it.
2.  The rest of the group also has some say in it.  For instance if you described the same power as "magical farts" then some of the players might feel it was a little silly and they weren't totally comfortable with it.  Reember that the same applies to you, and you should look for more ways to explain why their description fits the mechanics than why it "can't."  Keep an open mind and you'll usually get the same in return.
3.  Your changed description shouldn't change the mechanics, and you shouldn't expect it to.

Say I made a dex/charisma based sorcerer with a bunch of blast spells, and decided to use a description like yours.  Just because I am describing it as a punch doesn't mean that I should get to (or expect to) add strength to my damage because maybe I punched them.


EDIT: Yoga flaaame. 



1. ill make sure, though these guys are pretty laid back so they should allow it
2. same as 1
3. Of course i cant just go and make up whatever i want. Ill make sure to keep it within reason. Since i know its a magic spell i wont make it based on str...though doesnt a dragon sorc use str and charisma as its two main stats anyway?

Also if im carrying a dagger or some other weapon can i still technically punch? I mean in real life i know it's possible, but in the game is it?

One more question as well; is that build used for 4 or is that an older version too?



Also if im carrying a dagger or some other weapon can i still technically punch? I mean in real life i know it's possible, but in the game is it?



You are always free to make an unarmed attack, but it's almost never a good idea, as you will get no proficiency bonus and the damage is terrible (d4).  the dagger at least grants you a proficiency bonus to hit.

One more question as well; is that build used for 4 or is that an older version too?



Sorceror is a 4E class, and dragon magic is a class feature open to that class.




Also if im carrying a dagger or some other weapon can i still technically punch? I mean in real life i know it's possible, but in the game is it?



You are always free to make an unarmed attack, but it's almost never a good idea, as you will get no proficiency bonus and the damage is terrible (d4).  the dagger at least grants you a proficiency bonus to hit.

One more question as well; is that build used for 4 or is that an older version too?



Sorceror is a 4E class, and dragon magic is a class feature open to that class.




well i wasnt talking about a regular attack i kinda ment more along the lines of how one of my magic skills might look, but i guess if i am making up how the skill looks it shouldnt matter really ^_^

and alright then i think that might be the build i will go with first then


One more question as well; is that build used for 4 or is that an older version too?



It is a build for 4E, but it no longer works as described in the Original Post.

Since the OP, the Daggermaster Paragon Path has received errata. The expanded Critical range now only works for Rogue and Daggermaster powers, so Sorcerers receive almost no benefit from the Daggermaster Paragon Path.

Depending on when the last post in that thread was, there may be an updated build that tries to get similar results after the errata.

But the Dragon build doesnt have daggermaster in it...it is a "Dragon Sorcerer/Dragonsoul Heir/Demigod"
But the Dragon build doesnt have daggermaster in it...it is a "Dragon Sorcerer/Dragonsoul Heir/Demigod"



Missed that you specifically called out the last build, which is the only one in that post that doesn't use Daggermaster. ;)

Nothing in that build screams out to me that it has been errata'd. It should work as written, barring an in-depth analysis.

Nice then Cold and Lightning FTW!! haha I think my friends will be suprised at how much ive learned in such a sort time. I think i will enjoy my first time playing haha
oh another question i had is how can you play when multiple people wan2 be different um....whats the word im looking for idk some wan2 be good and some wan2 be evil. Like out of my 6 friends one wan2 be chaotic evil another wan2 be nuatral evil, one wan2 lawful good, another wan2 be nuatral good, and the others wan2 be nuatral. How can we play a game when everyone is different?
oh another question i had is how can you play when multiple people wan2 be different um....whats the word im looking for idk some wan2 be good and some wan2 be evil. Like out of my 6 friends one wan2 be chaotic evil another wan2 be nuatral evil, one wan2 lawful good, another wan2 be nuatral good, and the others wan2 be nuatral. How can we play a game when everyone is different?



Have a nice, long conversation with the people who want to be evil, and find out why they want to be evil.

More often than not (often enough that it has become a cliche), a player wants to play an evil character because they want to be a jerk, and they think that "I'm just roleplaying" gives them a reasonable excuse to be as disruptive as possible and suffer no consequences for their actions.

4th Edition is REALLY not set up for the kind of player vs. player conflict that will arise from this behavior (not might, WILL).

Evil characters can work, but only if the evil characters have a reason to be part of the group and want to be part of the group. If they are going to screw the group over and call it "roleplaying," they needn't bother to show up at the table, as far as I'm concerned.

(BTW, there are only five alignments now. Lawful Good, Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil and Unaligned. I'm willing to bet that if everyone works together to create a group of friends with different personalities that want to adventure together, the lion's share of alignments will actually fall into Unaligned. And your first characters should be made as a group. Everyone making their characters in isolation carries a strong possibility of the first party consisting of "five lone wolves with no ties to or cares for anyone but themselves," a healer and a paladin.)
hmmm...yea i wan2 see what happens. If they start making the game horrible i think i will just get up and leave. No sense with dealing with pointless quests and unbareable actions.
So what is a cool "for fun class?" Something that is really odd but really fun to play with
In draganomicon there is a dragonslayer prestege, but unless you k ow your going to be fighting alot of dragons I don't suggest it to you. So many more useful classes.
Well it doesnt have to be a dragonslayer kinda build...just something that would be funny and cool to play XD
Well it doesnt have to be a dragonslayer kinda build...just something that would be funny and cool to play XD

There are so many, it is hard to say. Truthfully people tend to go for the more combat-effective builds, so those tend to start to get well-used. The more esoteric builds thus also tend to be on the lesser end of combat effectiveness. That doesn't mean they're less worthwhile, or even a lot less powerful, but some players get annoyed when someone comes along with a less effective character.

Anyway, that being said, you can do things like a melee sorcerer (use Arcane Implement Proficiency to use a greatsword/fullblade as an implement, you'd also need some stuff from a Dragon article a while back), a dwarf hexhammer warlock (lots of CON, Hammer Rhythm, Infernal Pact, only really gets going on Paragon but you can play a more traditional build up to that point, dwarves make good conlocks). You'd do well to ask about this in charops or the character building forum.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
So what is a cool "for fun class?" Something that is really odd but really fun to play with

Personally i think the avenger is the most fun class, and i favor actions over numbers (i'd rather do some cool things for 10, rather then somethings straight forward for 20), but everyone's different, and some prefer to hear "you killed it" then "you knock it down the pit".

So... I tend to play complex classes/builds with complex mechanics.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Hmmm ill go look up things for the avenger then. I should also go read some of the rules too before i start to play. I was also thinking that maybe, if they still wan2 play evil characters, that i could try being the DM. Last night while on the computer i was thinking of things that could be done with evil and good characters. I ended up thinking of a race. Both teams are trying to get the treasure in the middle of the same castle but they enter at two different side, but meet either similar or different monster and traps as they go through. What do you guys think?
Hmmm ill go look up things for the avenger then. I should also go read some of the rules too before i start to play. I was also thinking that maybe, if they still wan2 play evil characters, that i could try being the DM. Last night while on the computer i was thinking of things that could be done with evil and good characters. I ended up thinking of a race. Both teams are trying to get the treasure in the middle of the same castle but they enter at two different side, but meet either similar or different monster and traps as they go through. What do you guys think?

There's been campaigns like that.

The main issues of doing that is timing, so you have to make sure one team isn't waiting too long while the other goes.  The other is that 4e isn't set up for player vs player.  But it's certainly doable.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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