cleric podcast is up

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dling now
notes so far-the phb design was 'unintended'
"Circle the wagons boys, looks like we're doin some fighten"


Preparation for the fireworks:

- lawnchair
- popcorn
- cold beverage
- spidey sense tingling

Checklist complete!  I havn't this much fun since the online Character builder launched Wink Methinks the 4th of July is early this year.
they say the cleric was changed the most and that (quote) they "knew it would be received negatively by fans". begs the question why do it but i digress
shoe is claiming he personally witnessed wizards being envious of clerics during epic play
he then says that was a big concern that the cleric was 'stepping on the toes of what the wizard should do'

shoe is claiming he personally witnessed wizards being envious of clerics during epic play



They need to read CharOp :P
now he is saying 'maybe its too much [nerfing], not sure yet' regarding astral storm
says the "cleric is just part of a larger effort to getting these effect (daze, stun, immobilize) under control"
shoe is claiming he personally witnessed wizards being envious of clerics during epic play



????? 
[facepalm]


I'm envious of my neighbor's new truck. I hope someone takes a crowbar to it so I don't feel so bad.

re the 'templars' strengths: 'when it comes to healing somebody, nobody heals like the cleric".
says in his personal campaign he referred to the cleric accidentally as a wizard
re pacifist healer: the divine keyword pulled out..last year..in heroes of fallen lands...so as a consequence doesnt work with pacifist/beautific...this is a case of unfortunate timing...but rest assured the intent is for pacifist to use it and this will be rectified "soon"
"soon"





re: turn undead, says its basically 'stunning' a large group of monsters. says it would ruin a ravenloft game. "even though we nerfed the damage its still doing radiant damage. its still a tremendous amount of damage."
"Soon"

Ah, it's like watching a pitcher in baseball hang one right over the plate.

*** KERPOW! ***

It's a beautiful sight, fireworks in May
The whole thing actually sounds pretty reasonable through their words.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

Soon?! How long did it take you to notice the problem for pete sake?!
IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Undrave/facehoof2.png)

The problem with Turn Undead isn't the reduced damage, its that Close Burst 2 is ridiculously small for Epic Play. It doesn't actually have any impact on Heroic tier play so their nerf was more or less useless. If Immobilizing a group of enemy like that is too strong then they should have put it down to 'Slowed' instead but keep the expending size!
58292718 wrote:
I love Horseshoecrabfolk. What I love most about them is that they seem to be the one thing that we all can agree on.
See for yourself, click here!
re divine oracle: felt the daze on a miss was enough to leave it

'we havent technically changed it but we are still looking at it..we were hesitant to make a change that would nullify a character"
Soon?! How long did it take you to notice the problem for pete sake?!


The problem with Turn Undead isn't the reduced damage, its that Close Burst 2 is ridiculously small for Epic Play. It doesn't actually have any impact on Heroic tier play so their nerf was more or less useless. If Immobilizing a group of enemy like that is too strong then they should have put it down to 'Slowed' instead but keep the expending size!




And it still doesn't make them a better leader.
"the big picture..bursts and blasts are getting smaller"

re prophesy of doom-considered making it work only on at wills then ctaches himself and realizes slayer and essentials would break that idea
he then says that was a big concern that the cleric was 'stepping on the toes of what the wizard should do'




Well, clearly that's the basis for the new straightjacket essentials designs. Any class that actually gets to chose their AEDU powers (or even has them!) is stepping on the wizard's toes.

It aint called Clerics of the Coast for a reason.

What I really want to hear is the design rationale behind giving a leader class a bunch of now party unfriendly mediocre damage AE's with no leader riders.
The whole thing actually sounds pretty reasonable through their words.

How dare you utter that word here? 

he then says that was a big concern that the cleric was 'stepping on the toes of what the wizard should do'




Well, clearly that's the basis for the new straightjacket essentials designs. Any class that actually gets to chose their AEDU powers (or even has them!) is stepping on the wizard's toes.

It aint called Clerics of the Coast for a reason.

What I really want to hear is the design rationale behind giving a leader class a bunch of now party unfriendly crappy damage AE's with no leader riders.



This is the problem that has been mentioned time and time again. Some people seem to be blind to this.
re tactical warpriest, says if they were redoing class completely would have made str and wis for all powers. says they didnt flip to str so the warpriest could use it and dint want to ruin for people using it already
While I may not agree with what they're saying here, I do appreciate the fact that they're going through the effort to give us better communication, particularly on design decisions. This is what the forums were begging for and WotC is delivering. Compare this to the situation prior to the launch of Essentials.

The fact this podcast is happening at all is a sign that they're listening to the feedback and care about fan response.

Opinion: They want what's best for the game, which is very reassuring. They're not simply out to make a buck. If they were, every new book and dragon article would push up the power creep. The problem is that what they feel is best for the game is not quite what others feel is best for the game. I get the feeling that the desires of the designers and those of the vocal 4e supporters are diverging quickly. This podcast makes me feel like there's a real push-pull going on between these two groups.
says ritual gentle repose has been dropped from the cleric since the deluxe phb but the intent was to give cleric a choice and thats why no mention
says warlock is being updated 'as part of our regular update, not the class compendium'

says the rogue and wizard are upcoming


*on a personal note, you can bet your bottom dollar the wizard bursts are going bye bye*
re tactical warpriest, says if they were redoing class completely would have made str and wis for all powers. says they didnt flip to str so the warpriest could use it and dint want to ruin for people using it already




So make them str or wis? Problem solved.
and thats it, its only about 30 minutes

i tried to be objective and just quote what they said
re: burst sizes:  Tactical movement is completely unnecessary in a Burst 8.  Most people actually don't keep the characters that far apart.  If you have a Burst 8, even in Epic, it still means you hit everything in the encounter.  They talk about the reduction later on in the podcast.

The larger the burst gets, the more monsters there are in the encounter, there is a huge cost to game play (that many rolls, turns the 1-minute turn into the 10-minute turn).

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

"the big picture..bursts and blasts are getting smaller"

re prophesy of doom-considered making it work only on at wills then ctaches himself and realizes slayer and essentials would break that idea



This one surprised me. It's almost like he hadn't fully thought through the ramifications of what he was saying prior to coming on the podcast. This was a bit of surprise as I would like to think the top designers have it all figured out.

Has the game gotten so big that even the designers can't anticipate all of ripple down effects when changes are made?
bottom line i got from it, the damage nerfs make no sense, the aoe reduction makes partial sense but not coupled with the rest of the nerfs (and they admit as much, maybe some powers will get changed again), the ranger isnt getting updated thank god, but anything with a blast or burst should fear the nerfbat
Just what sorcerers need. :P
The "maybe we went overboard... we'll see and go from there..." sentiments sure make me wonder why they even bother having paytesters, if they view every campaign as a trial ground.

Love how they danced their way around clerics not being as good as other leaders, by saying they still are the best healers.  I'd be hard pressed to call a str cleric that favors cha for riders and needs a decent con for armor proficency, thus not gaining real use of healer's lore to be a better healer than pretty much any other leader.

Looks like the days are numbered for big blasts and bursts, which basically just means parties should only be made up of martial characters.

I wish they would have talk about the nerf to the tactical warpriests mark.

The turn undead nerf seemed to be because of what everyone thought, they played a cleric in an undead campaign, decided it was too powerful, and nerfed it even though most clerics will only use it once per level.
:facepalm:

Consider my speculation confirmed.  They seem to be basing the design decisions based on THEIR OWN TABLES and not from community feedback.

Do these clowns realize that:

1.  The Leader role goes far, far beyond healing.....and in fact the ability to enable extra actions and extra damage >> the ability to heal damage done?

2.  The Inpirational Warlord and Eladrin Tac-Lord heals pretty much just as well as the non-pacifist cleric?  And does OTHER leader things much, much better?

3.  Controlling does not begin and end with area of effect powers?
 

-Polaris             
says warlock is being updated 'as part of our regular update, not the class compendium'

says the rogue and wizard are upcoming


*on a personal note, you can bet your bottom dollar the wizard bursts are going bye bye*


 
  Wizards and sorcs don't have a huge number of bursts over size 5.  Like, count on one hand and have fingers left over sort of thing.  Kinda the point of why they reigned in the cleric.  Dumping out a thousand damage with minor action power because you hit every monster on the board is a fairly rare thing now that Turn Undead is fixed.  And clerics won't be hogging all the play time rolling 20 attack rolls to the fighters 1.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

eh i admit they have a point with a burst 8 slowing down game time, but if game time is a concern why nerf the damage to such pathetic, and i mean pathetic, levels at epic
says warlock is being updated 'as part of our regular update, not the class compendium'

says the rogue and wizard are upcoming


*on a personal note, you can bet your bottom dollar the wizard bursts are going bye bye*


 
  Wizards and sorcs don't have a huge number of bursts over size 5.  Like, count on one hand and have fingers left over sort of thing.  Kinda the point of why they reigned in the cleric.  Dumping out a thousand damage with minor action power because you hit every monster on the board is a fairly rare thing now that Turn Undead is fixed.  And clerics won't be hogging all the play time rolling 20 attack rolls to the fighters 1.



Again, that's fine. Just make that power more party friendly. Have it make the cleric a better leader.
Heh, but I play a Ranged/Melee Dagger Sorcerer. 

Bottom line, the damage nerfs made a lot of sense:  Wizards were dealing less AoE damage.   While Warlocks aren't going through Class Compendium, and thus Rangers, Druids, Paladins, aren't either, the "updates" to Warlocks may be mentioned amongst other updates for all classes. 

The most important thing is that WotC has officially sanctioned players to ignore the problem with healing word combining with Pacificist Healer and Beatific Healer.  You can go ahead and use the feats, and the official change will be made soon, since it's still in the works for a future rules updates (since those feats come from a different source than Player's Handbook).

Finally, the Divine Oracle PPath in the Compendium is not the correct PPath; the correct one is the one in the PDF.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

says warlock is being updated 'as part of our regular update, not the class compendium'

says the rogue and wizard are upcoming


*on a personal note, you can bet your bottom dollar the wizard bursts are going bye bye*


 
  Wizards and sorcs don't have a huge number of bursts over size 5.  Like, count on one hand and have fingers left over sort of thing.  Kinda the point of why they reigned in the cleric.  Dumping out a thousand damage with minor action power because you hit every monster on the board is a fairly rare thing now that Turn Undead is fixed.  And clerics won't be hogging all the play time rolling 20 attack rolls to the fighters 1.



well they nerfed the cleric bursts and blast 5s and a 3 but youve never played dnd before so i dont like to argue w you
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