05/23/2011 Feature: "The Mechanics of Magic 2012"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Feature Article, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Dies is thumbs up for increasing available space in rules text on cards.

Hexproof is thumbs up for keywording the abilty and major thumbs down for execution. Dumb, dumb name. 
4. Don't speak dumb, or you'll be struck dumb. Remember, the name of the game is heads I win, tails you lose.
Hexproof is a cool key word. Nice that the shroud variant get its own keyword.

Not sure how I feel about dies. It does remove a lot of text, just I'm not sure I like the ring it has. Meh, I'll get use to it.

Bloodthirst was rumored to return, just wish the preview card was a Vampire. 

Yay @ finally giving trollshroud a name

Boo @ dies. MAJOR boo @ dies. I feel like we are slowly moving back to one of the worst things about early magic; flavor took precedence over mechanical clarity. What next, reprint of Raging River?
Now my creatures can die? =/
Hexproof is a welcome addition but has a dumb name. That said, I can't really think of a better one that's distinct enough from "Shroud." "Hexward" is the best I can come up with off the top of my head.

"Dies" is nice, but will feel a bit weird on artifacts and similar things. In a world where a slug can wear a hat, I guess that's a small price to pay for an extra line of text. 
Hexproof is a crappy name. Could they really not think of anything that's a noun?

"Dies" sounds stupid to me now, but I'll probably grow to like it.
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Hehe Dies hehe

...

Seriously, this is going to be so much fun. "Oh no, when Child of Alara dies, he destroys all my permanents!"
"So they die too?"
"Yep."
Seems like "dies" might lead to as much confusion as what it replaced -- try convincing a new player that something removed from the game didn't "die"... (edit: as was pointed out below, "removed from game" was, well, removed from the game some time ago, so this isn't much of an issue).

I find hexproof disappointing, not because it's confusing or anything but because it's my absolute least favorite mechanic in all of magic, and the keyword suggests we'll be seeing more of it.
Dies will only be used to refer to creatures. From the article:


Cards will continue to use the current terminology if they refer to cards that aren't on the battlefield, objects that aren't creatures by default (for example, enchantments), or groups of objects that might include some creatures and some noncreatures (for example, permanents). They also won't use "dies" if they refer to cards being put into a specific graveyard, as Nim Deathmantle does.

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I personally like "dies," hexproof, and pretty much everything in this article. Not getting a new Sorin is a little disappointing but I didn't really expect one after that video revealed a Gideon Jura reprint in M12.

Also, a note to Raemon. Non-creature permanents will still say "put into a graveyard from the battlefield."

"Dies" is shorthand for "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" that's used exclusively to refer to creatures.



Edit: Sarnath'd. 

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

I'm kinda glad to see Sorin included in this set. With the next set sure to have a dark theme, he may be more useful. Don't forget Batterskull, Sword of War and Peace, infinite life combos, etc. Sorin's second ability is looking pretty sweet.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

Personally, I like "Hexproof". It works well enough, and it's a fun word.

I don't know how to react to "dies". I know I use the exact same word all the time, even when I'm explaining highly technical (okay, moderately technical) rules questions to people, but it sounds bizarre to actually have that be the official word for it. I'm sure it will be fine, though, once I've had time to acclimate.
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Those 2 keywords really are awkward.  The former does not even fit linguistically with other established abilities.  "Hexproof" makes it sound like it is more like "indestructable," being a quality, where it should be more along the lines of Shroud as an ability.
Seems like "dies" might lead to as much confusion as what it replaced -- try convincing a new player that something removed from the game didn't "die"...


You mean when they're exiled? Because I think people can understand the difference between something that is exiled and something that dies.
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Hexproof should've been Hexshroud, but whatever. I can see where they're coming from with that name. Thumbs up for keywording it; it's used often enough to warrant the keywording.

I don't know about "dies" though. It certainly saves space, but having two terms refer to the same thing generally leads to some sort of confusion. I suppose time will tell. 
Hold on a second, just realized something. Will cards like Privileged Position get errata like "Other permanents you control have Hexproof", or will they keep their unkeyworded wording? Will Leyline of Sanctity give you Hexproof?
Rules Nut Advisor
Hold on a second, just realized something. Will cards like Privileged Position get errata like "Other permanents you control have Hexproof", or will they keep their unkeyworded wording? Will Leyline of Sanctity give you Hexproof?


Yes, in the same way that Crystalline Sliver and Ivory Mask got changed when shroud was created.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

Grave Pact

"Whenever one of your creatures dies, each opponent sacrifice a creature"

Fresh Meat

"Put a 3/3 Beast creature token for each creature you control that died this turn"

Go for the Throat

"Kill target non-Artifact creature"

Drudge Skelletons

"B: regenerates (if this creature would die this turn, instead it doesn't, becomes tapped and is out of combat)"

I really dislike the Hexproof name for troll shroud. It sounds really 'thought up'.

Dies is a bit icky but I know I'll get used to it from day one of playing with it. It sounds really natural.
I must be a hypocrite cuz I dont like seeing 'dies' on a card, but thats how I always say it.
hexproof is dumb, they shoulda just went with trollshroud, just like 5 years ago when we wanted them to name shroud "untargetable"
Go for the Throat

"Kill target non-Artifact creature"

They aren't changing 'destroy' to 'kill'; they're just changing "goes to the graveyard from the battlefield" to "dies."

You are Red/Blue!
awesome!

seems pretty cool

bloothirst seems like a nice core mechanic, thought it defintiley seems a little complicated at first- i think it will turn out similar tot scry and be fine,

not really sure about "dies" either though, i think it was nice to keep "once goes to the graveyard" universal with all cards, it really wasnt taht bad, i guess we'll ahev to see how it turns out

cool overall, just not feeling the "dies" keyword so far, hexproof can silde, but "dies" just doesnt feel right, compared to "destroyed" seem too similar to have on have a graveyard effect, eh
still cool though

edit:
really dies does seem to be more complicated, for people who dont know, and new players id imagine, "when goes to the graveyard" seemed just finded and explainatory. eh again idk, guess we'll c
i really hope destroy target creature doesnt bceom kill target creature :o 
I for one, will continue to call it "Super Shroud" which is what it's referred to at the stores I play at and with the groups I play with.  It's too close to shroud to have been given such a different name.

First they change "from play" to "from the battlefield"  and now they're using "dies?"  what style of card could possibly warrant such a blatant shortening of terminology? 
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Or they could just send Squirrel's. They would take out the Eldrazi and Phyrexia no problem.
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Hexward and hexshroud are both better than hexproof. I could have gone for veil, cloak, covert, immunity, resistance, mage armor, or basically anything ther than hexproof. Just sounds dumb.

And I'm not sure how much design space there is in bloodthirst but it's cool I guess. 
Thumbs up for all three changes.

It's nice to have trollshroud keyworded and the name will certainly get better with age.

"Dies" certainly saves some space, and I like that they previewed a card that has both "Die" and "Exile" in it. Here's hoping they can find short-hand for other things: bounce, mill, taking cards from the graveyard to your hand, etc. I'm surprised that they didn't make a version for non-creature permanents: say "When [this card] is destroyed" instead of "When [this card] is put into a graveyard from play" Next time?

The bloodthirst theme for red looks fun. Hopefully there's a "+1/+1 counter matters" theme in the set as well.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Grave Pact

"Whenever one of your creatures dies, each opponent sacrifice a creature"

Fresh Meat

"Put a 3/3 Beast creature token for each creature you control that died this turn"

Go for the Throat

"Kill target non-Artifact creature"

Drudge Skelletons

"B: regenerates (if this creature would die this turn, instead it doesn't, becomes tapped and is out of combat)"



Throat and skeletons are wrong. Try to avoid disseminating misinformation.
"Hexproof" is a dumb name.  They're using it to mirror "shroud," when it should be used like "indestructible," since linguistically it's similar to "fireproof."

So they have two options for, say Privileged Position:
1. Other permanents you control have hexproof.
2. Other permanents you control are hexproof.

1. is stupid because it doesn't feel grammatically correct.  We don't say, "The firefighter's vest has fireproof."
2. is stupid because it doesn't match shroud, yet the ability does.

As someone mentioned, "hex shroud" would have worked a lot better.  Also, this would have expanded the ability like "cycling" and "kicker" - hex shroud would be considered a form of shroud, and they could have done "creature shroud" and "artifact shroud" and "X gets +1/+1 for each permanent you control with shroud" with all of the above counting towards the bonus.

Fail, fail, fail.



"Dies" is great, though.  People already say "dies to X" and new players often say "It dies?" when questioning whether a creature is destroyed.  Now one can confidentally answer, "Yes."
This is GARBAGE. Welcome to a new era of Pokemon Magic.

Keywording Troll Shroud only took how many freaking years? Fail.

No one likes Bloodthirst. Fail.

'Dies'? Do I even need to say any more? Fail.

And on one other (less important) note: why does this article even bothering mentioning Planeswalkers? "There's gonna be planeswalkers in M12!?!?!? No way, dude!!!111!!11!!1"
Two problems with 'Hexproof':

1. It sounds like it means that counters can't be removed from it, a la Vampire Hexmage or Hex Parasite. (Of course, there's also the old card, Hex, but in that case, 'hex' refered to the number six.)

2. It is really a specialized form of shroud, and so would have benefitted from a name with 'shroud' in it.

What would I have argued for if I'd been at that meeting? Either 'Hateshroud' or 'Elusive'.
This is GARBAGE. Welcome to a new era of Pokemon Magic.

Keywording Troll Shroud only took how many freaking years? Fail.

No one likes Bloodthirst. Fail.

'Dies'? Do I even need to say any more? Fail.



I keep trying to quote your post, but I guess it doesn't matter because all five iterations have been worthless.
Also...

"Planeswalker cards will appear in the Magic 2012 Core Set and subsequent card sets.
Planeswalker characters will appear in Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012."

REALLY? That sounds like a pretty good indication that Duels still won't include any planeswalker cards.... If so, that's pretty disappointing news. That was something a lot of us had been hoping for. Of course, I'm still really excited for the game, and will definitely buy and play it, but still.
Yeah, when I first saw that Hexproof would be a keyword, I instantly thought that the creature would be something like Melira (no counters on it).

But, they couldn't have made it Trollshroud - 20 years from now, would anybody remember that the first  creature with Hexproof was a Troll?

It can't be Asceticism either.
"Dies" is a terrible idea.  It's going to create way more confusion than the saved 4 or 5 words of text will ever be worth.  Welcome back "bury all creatures" Wrath of God... I mean... "All creatures die?".  100% MEH.
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This is GARBAGE. Welcome to a new era of Pokemon Magic.

Keywording Troll Shroud only took how many freaking years? Fail.

No one likes Bloodthirst. Fail.

'Dies'? Do I even need to say any more? Fail.



I keep trying to quote your post, but I guess it doesn't matter because all five iterations have been worthless.


My apologies for that; I kept changing my mind about what I wanted to say. I think it's good now though.
I actually like all three things.  Bloodthirst is great, as always, and I am getting really excited for Furyborn Hellkite.  A 6/6 with Bloodthirst 6 is crazy in red decks.  Besides, with New Phyrexia, you can give it haste with Urabrask, and pump it out early with Priest of Urabrask and Geosurge.  The "dies" will look awkward on cards at first, but I feel that saying it is way more natural than what we had before.  Hexproof is cool for giving Troll Shroud a name, and hopefully means that we will see it more now that its evergreen. I am not sold on the name though.... Dungrove Elder is going to be an insta-playset for me, by the way.  The Archon of Justice reprint is amazing as well.  All in all, we are looking good so far for M12.

This is GARBAGE.

This must be undone. Forever.

I fought the "battlefield", "casting", and "this turn" on creatures (which still makes no sense: just read the bloodthirst wording), but this is just going way too far. Welcome to a new era of Pokemon Magic.


Troll less badly?

Two problems with 'Hexproof':

1. It sounds like it means that counters can't be removed from it, a la Vampire Hexmage or Hex Parasite. (Of course, there's also the old card, Hex, but in that case, 'hex' refered to the number six.)

2. It is really a specialized form of shroud, and so would have benefitted from a name with 'shroud' in it.

What would I have argued for if I'd been at that meeting? Either 'Hateshroud' or 'Elusive'.



Personally when I hear the word Hex i think of the spells witches casts on something, so I think it works. It is interesting that the "Hex" creatures are currently have remove counters. I don't think many people caught that.

I do agree that as a better shroud it would have been better to have shroud in the keyword, but I don't think that is that big an issue.
Well, showing sorin markov would seem to strongly suggest that the M12 walkers are reprints (whereas many have speculated new planeswalker cards.)

Unless that was already confirmed or something. 
Is anyone else excited for Dungrove elder i mean, he is crazy huge with primeval titan. I hope green gets a lot of love here since all the green from scars block is crappy infect.
Troll less badly?


You mad?
Well, showing sorin markov would seem to strongly suggest that the M12 walkers are reprints (whereas many have speculated new planeswalker cards.)

Unless that was already confirmed or something. 



Gideon was confirmed in a video (I think the same one as at the bottom of the article? Maybe not, but an official trailer of some kind) to be Gideon Jura, and Sorin Markov is obviously confirmed by this article. There's some speculation about which Jace, Garruk, and Chandra we will get, but it's probably Garruk Wildspeaker, Chandra Nalaar, and Jace Beleren (it will not be Jace, the Mind Sculptor. The same preview video showed only the edge of the card, but Jace has a 3-ability frame, not a 4-ability one).
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