Just a sec...What happened to the cleric

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Well i was on the homepage today and i saw a "Cleric (The Templar)" article and i was like, wait, the Templar, isn't that name taken.  Then i looked at it aand saw it was the essentials remake and said, "Okay your not going to like that."  (I don't like the essentials versions very much [or at all])  So i just looked at the errata and said did they give these clerics a boost in anything?  There was not a single stat that increased, not damage, not healing, not support.  This coming right after two articles saying how few people play the cleric.  I think it was them preparing us for them saying "good-bye all you cleric people, we are leaving you, FOR PROGRESS and so more people will hate us"  Tell me your thoughts.
For more information on the topic, check out
 community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...(Templar)

there has been a lively discussion - you can expect a podcast next week regarding the changes.
Well i was on the homepage today and i saw a "Cleric (The Templar)" article and i was like, wait, the Templar, isn't that name taken.  Then i looked at it aand saw it was the essentials remake and said, "Okay your not going to like that."  (I don't like the essentials versions very much [or at all])  So i just looked at the errata and said did they give these clerics a boost in anything?  There was not a single stat that increased, not damage, not healing, not support.  This coming right after two articles saying how few people play the cleric.  I think it was them preparing us for them saying "good-bye all you cleric people, we are leaving you, FOR PROGRESS and so more people will hate us"  Tell me your thoughts.



Actually, Strength Clerics got a little bit of a boost. Some of their Implement powers were changed to Weapon powers so that they would have lesss need to maintain two Items at the appropriate level.

A lot of the powers were "nerfed" with little to compensate for it. In some cases those powers had bursts and / or damage that was too large for their role and level. But they went too far in bringing them down, by making them worse than comparable powers of their role and level, rather than on par.

These changes won't be truly official until they are added to the end of the month update. Just as any other article, modifcations may happen in between now and then.

Everyone with a conspiracy theory about the sinister motives for the nerfs is still a crackpot. The devs are doing what they think is best for the class and the game. They don't want anyone to stop playing Clerics. They may be mistaken about the degree of changes necessary, and the form those changes need to make, but it isn't all part of some sinister plot to sell more copies of Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Anyone who honestly thinks any of the conspiracy theories might be correct are people I can file away into the crackpot box along with the folks who think the attack on the Twin Towers was a Republican plot to ensure George W. Bush's re-election and repeal the term limits on the Presidency or that Obama's birth certificate is simply another piece of the 30+ year long conspiracy to put a black man in the White House and that Obama's parents were chosen to bear this antichrist into the world for just that purpose or that the Bible is very explicit that the Rapture and subsequent Apocalypse will begin this Saturday.

(Yay to living in Oakland where one of the centers of the latter movement is based news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110518/ap_on_re_us...)
Malak:

The conspiracy theorists may be nutjobs I agree, but I don't think it's too much to ask for devs at
Wizards to demonstrate some system mastery. Newer classes/builds are so much worse than older
ones, it's embarrassing!

WOTC should just hire the veteran posters from Char-Op to fix the system already, what a bloody shambles
4E has become.
"You got your Essentials in my 4E!" "Well, you got your 4E in my Essentials!"
Just so you guys know most of my theories there were just for fun.Laughing  anyway, thanks Botanicus for the link, i read through the entire thing, (is that sad?) thanks, keep on talkin.  I love hearing.
They don't want anyone to stop playing Clerics. They may be mistaken about the degree of changes necessary, and the form those changes need to make, but it isn't all part of some sinister plot to sell more copies of Heroes of the Fallen Lands.



FWIW I have probably been the most vocal opponent of the changes on the board.  I assume  incompetence/low system mastery that is responsible for many of the changes. 

On paper the cleric powers looked too powerful, but that is because big dice numbers look more impressive than they really are.  Enthrall got nerfed, but it pales in comparison to the same level warlord power Hail of Steel for damage.  Hail of steel leaves it and the other cleric party friendly powers in the freaking dust for damage, possibly by hundreds and hundreds of points of damage in a well optimized party and that same party might also be pushing, sliding, proning, etc so it can potentially offer more control as well.  And hail of steel was left alone, while enthrall lost most of its area.
As much as I dislike the term 'Low System Mastery' I feel it is appropriate in this case. Speicfically in regards to the Healing Word situation where it was either Unintentionally changed, Intentionally changed without knowledge of the consequences, or Intentionally changed with knowledge of the consequences.

If it was unintentionally changed i'd like to think they would've said something, though that may show up in the Podcast.

if it was intentional and without knowledge of the consequences it strongly indicates not knowing the material they're dealing with.

If it was intentional with knowledge, I frankly don't understand why the choice would be made as it impacts at least 1 feat and 1 paragon path.

Given the age of cleric (PHB1) i think that if it was actually to reflect 'design intent' it would have been handled earlier, such as when Solar Wrath was nerfed. It feel more like someone was upset at a cleric who used Firestorm or Enthrall successfully or that there is a new Design intent - which would have been better phrased as 'bringing in line with current expectations'
WOTC should just hire the veteran posters from Char-Op to fix the system already, what a bloody shambles
4E has become.

I can't think of anything that could make the system worse than doing this.  Except possibly leaving the current mob in charge.

They shouldn't let the charop people in charge, but when they ask for our opinion like they did in the giant thread from a weeks ago they should listen to it.

No one said ranged clerics were overpowered in that thread.
They shouldn't let the charop people in charge, but when they ask for our opinion like they did in the giant thread from a weeks ago they should listen to it.

No one said ranged clerics were overpowered in that thread.


This article is from the cancelled Class Compendium - it was probably finished months ago, well before that thread even existed.

Not that I disagree - but blaming it on WotC not paying attention to their market research is short sighted.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Well putting it mildly, "What happened to the Cleric?"

Generally speaking what happened to the Cleric involves something large, long and jagged being forcefully shoved up the metaphorical rear end of said class, the Cleric.  At least that's how most are taking the news.  I'm kinda with them but then at the same time the changes don't affect anything for since the only cleric I've ever been interested in playing, and already have, is a purely pacifist cleric.  So the biggest change that I noticed was Healing Word but that's apparently going to be fixed because for a change Wizards actually realized they were stupid. 
I don't get the essentials hate. The Warpriest can grant a saving throw while attacking. Oh and this is an at-will power and the saving throw part doesn't even depend on hitting. Sounds useful to me. The Templar can do it from range but this depends on hitting. Still not too bad.
Well putting it mildly, "What happened to the Cleric?"

Generally speaking what happened to the Cleric involves something large, long and jagged being forcefully shoved up the metaphorical rear end of said class, the Cleric.  At least that's how most are taking the news.  I'm kinda with them but then at the same time the changes don't affect anything for since the only cleric I've ever been interested in playing, and already have, is a purely pacifist cleric.  So the biggest change that I noticed was Healing Word but that's apparently going to be fixed because for a change Wizards actually realized they were stupid. 



If it makes any difference, I'm fairly certain the Cleric's Healer's Lore doesn't apply to Healing Word in its current form either.
Well putting it mildly, "What happened to the Cleric?"

Generally speaking what happened to the Cleric involves something large, long and jagged being forcefully shoved up the metaphorical rear end of said class, the Cleric.  At least that's how most are taking the news.  I'm kinda with them but then at the same time the changes don't affect anything for since the only cleric I've ever been interested in playing, and already have, is a purely pacifist cleric.  So the biggest change that I noticed was Healing Word but that's apparently going to be fixed because for a change Wizards actually realized they were stupid. 



If it makes any difference, I'm fairly certain the Cleric's Healer's Lore doesn't apply to Healing Word in its current form either.



Healing Word might not be divine but it is still a 'Cleric Power' as it has the 'Cleric Utility' tag on top so yes Healer's Lore still applies.
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Well and they admitted they were wrong about healing word and hopefully they should be making a change to add the divine keyword back onto it soon.  If not, well again, I just blatantly ignore the messed up changed to Cleric.  Especially given the recent Warlock update where oh...hey what a suprise, the Warlock gets a bunch of damage increases.  Huh, interesting.  They beat the crap out of the cleric, where there really wasn't anything wrong to begin with.  Not to mention axing their healing ability which is really the main point of a cleric regardless of what they say.  And yet, the Warlock gets a power boost.  Yeah, really reasonable Wizard.  Don't care if supposedly Warlocks are on the lower end of striker damage, as I've been told(have a friend who plays a warlock), it's just bogus to boost the warlock but nerf the cleric.  But yeah, I just ignore the cleric changes and all is well really.
The problem with Cleric was that one of the developers runs a Raven Loft Campaign. One Cleric can basically clear any enounter of undead in Raven Loft.

The problem was not the Cleric, but the DM for not using DM fiat to remove the Cleric's Channel Divinity for obvious story and gameplay reasons.
That's a little unfair. Most of the powers that were nerfed needed nerfing.

There's a good argument that they took more whacks with the nerf bat than they needed, and there's an even better argument that the errata robs clerics of much of their secondary controller role without replacing it with enhanced leader/other abilites.

Personally, I'm waiting with baited breath to see Mearls' battle cleric article this month. If it's any good, I may finally forgive WotC for abandoning my avatar's namesake.