Feywild book

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Do we have any more detailed information on the upcoming Feywild book? More specifically, will the classes and builds in it follow classic 4e or Essentials format? I hope to see more options for old AEDU classes like sorcerers and bards that haven't seen much love since Essentials.
I don't think anything is confirmed yet but you can bet there will be new options for both preE and essentials classes. New classes will most likely be presented in essentials format but that doesn't mean that if there is a new sorcerer build it can't use old sorcerer spells nor that your old sorcerer can't likewise enjoy using the new build's spell options.
I don't know about most people, but I thoroughly enjoy the essentials classes. They feel more role oriented than pre-e classes, which is nicer for people who just want to play the game instantly more than be super customizable. That doesn't mean I only pick essential classes though, just that its good for a fast game.
I don't think anything is confirmed yet but you can bet there will be new options for both preE and essentials classes. New classes will most likely be presented in essentials format but that doesn't mean that if there is a new sorcerer build it can't use old sorcerer spells nor that your old sorcerer can't likewise enjoy using the new build's spell options.



That's not necessarily true since Essentials fighters and classic fighters aren't very compatible for instance.
weaponmasters and knights may share utility powers. a knight who wants a weaponmaster power may get a feat that allows them to exchange a second use of power strike for one. its a bit of a run around but it is possible. so knights/weaponmasters and rangers/scouts+hunters aside classes whos essentials counterparts get to make alot of choices like the wizard (soon to be arcanist) and cleric (now templar) still gain access to those new powers. have you noticed when you make a cleric you can choose warpriest powers? even domain powers! no feat necessary. the old warlock aswell may choose hexblade and binder powers with a few restrictions. none that require a specific pactblade and the power must have a level, so no binder at wills. which basically limits them to binder encounter powers and hexblade/binder dailies. my binder uses a hexblade daily cuz i didn't like the ones in HoS. i have no doubts that if there were a new sorcerer build in the works it would be compatable with the old builds.
weaponmasters and knights may share utility powers. a knight who wants a weaponmaster power may get a feat that allows them to exchange a second use of power strike for one. its a bit of a run around but it is possible.

Thats "not very compatible," yes.

The sorcerer isn't terribly fey, anyhow, more likely we'll see more fey-pact warlock (hexblade) stuff.

There will, of course, be new schools and/or builds for the Mage.


I have no doubts that if there were a new sorcerer build in the works it would be compatable with the old builds.

/If/ there's a sorcerer sub-class, there are no guarantees.  The Sorcerer was a sort of alternate mechanical wizard, before.  It's unlikely to be mechanically similar to the wizard, this time around.  It might have a pre-chosen at will, multi-use encounter, standard daily structure, or it might even spam & modify some basic attack spell.  It might have yet another entirely novel mechanic.  The new design philosophy includes mechanically differentiating classes, afterall.

 

 

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On Amazon its listed as a paperback.  Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?  If so will it be like the Heroes of the... books?  Also, if they went that route then why didn't they do that with HoS?  I expected the fey book to be hardback as well.  Thanks if anyone can answer this.


Gryphonclaw
As far ase new builds are concerned, I asume they are going to do the Druid of Autumn and the Druid of Winter builds for the Sentinel(Druid)...
That would probably be a good idea Obvious_Ninja.  I would like to see those.  However, I am still wondering if it will be in paperback and if it is what Wizards was thinking when they decided to go that route.
That would probably be a good idea Obvious_Ninja.  I would like to see those.  However, I am still wondering if it will be in paperback and if it is what Wizards was thinking when they decided to go that route.



Purely a guess but if you look at the Amazon listing, the page count is 320 pages. This is the same (roughly) size count that the original entry for Hero's of Shadow-- Paperback, physical dimensions were the same as HotFG, RC, etc. It was, of course, adjusted to the hardback size and the page count was adjusted as the book was reformatted to fit the new physical size.

I can only assume they are doing the same... again, just a guess...
Thank you for the info Obvious_Ninja. So maybe it will be a hardback.  Well just time to wait and see.
the book is definetly hardcover. both shadow and feywild books were originally set to be paperback but changed to hardcover.

i'm not sure there will be much mage content in the book. what mage schools might a fey want to specialize in? enchantment? illusion? we already have both of those. perhaps some more spells for those schools but not more builds for mage i'm guessing.

as for sorcerers not being fey? i see your point however to me the sorcerer is a catch all blasty spell caster who's origins can come from nearly any source. i've refluffed dragonbloods into demonbloods and so on. when you're a sorcerer its what kind of magic courses through your veins. so ya i can see a sorcerer with a lil fey blood in him. it's powers may be preselected like all the new warlock builds but who cares odds are old sorcerers can choose those options too because that's the way its been with many essential classes. clerics can choose warpriest powers. wizards can choose mage spells. warlocks can choose some of the hexblade and binder spells too.
Currently, there's no Fey-blooded Sorcerer, egg_thallid_sandwich, and unless they created a new build/subclass that was "feyblooded" or something, they couldn't justify putting the class in the book.  It's not about whether you can reflavour it or not; the standard-assumed flavour is what is important when it comes to determining if it is appropriate for a specific thematic book.

On a separate note, it's come to my attention that A Practical Guide to Faeries has a map of the Feywild, and details several areas of the plane.  While I want a Feywild: Astrazalian and Beyond box set, ordering this might be able to tide me over.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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I have heard people mention a "Bladesinger" class build.
Maybee from a pod cast or something.
On an older thread talking about feywild book most people figured it will be a Bard build.  
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
Bladesinger is going to be in the Neverwinter book, which comes out first.

I suppose it's theoretically possible a new build for the Bladesinger will be in HoF, but I wouldn't count on it.
I pretty much expect this to be half arcane power 2 and half Primal power 2:

- New Bard spells
- New Druid builds/powers
- New Feylock spells (binder)
- New Swordmage spells (Bladesinger) 
- New Seeker evocations/builds(?)
- Warpriest Arcana domain
- New Ranger exploits (hunter/scout)
- Maybe a martial/Primal E-Barbarian? 
I'm hoping for lots of Seeker support (natural fit for a book on Fey magic) and Runepriest (a less obvious fit, but it could be reflavored to fit). I confident about the first and very dubious on the second, but you still gotta live in hope.

Unfortunately, I don't see the artificer getting any love from the Feywild book. It's just not a good fit with that storyline.

Wilden, gnomes, elves, and Eladrin will likely get more support, with the possibility of support for Shifters (although I doubt it).

What I'm really hoping for is a DM's Feywild resource similar to the Gloomwrought set which was released after HofS. Probably somewhere around Feb. 2012.
I expect Eladrin, Elves, Drow, and Half-elves to get about as much feature as Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and Eladrin did in Heroes of Shadow

On the OTHER hand, I expect Gnomes, Goblins, and one other race to be featured in the book.  The third race will almost CERTAINLY be Fey Origin, and almost CERTAINLY be Medium.

I expect the Transmutation School for Mages to be in this book; Faeries like to have fun with Baleful Polymorph spells.  And this school has been expected/10 since Red Box and Rules Compendium included it.  I also expect more Enchantment School and Illusion School spells.

I expect either the Arcana or the Moon domain to be featured for Warpriests, leaning more on Arcana. 

Binders could theoretically get a Fey Pact build here, and Hexblades would love more pact weapons for different courts.

I'm doubtful if Wilden, Seekers, or Runepriests will appear in the book, since these books are chiefly referencing lore that has been since Player's Essentials.  That said, Heroes of Shadow references Warlords, but that's because Class Compendium: Warlords came out before the book. 

Two new builds for the Sentinel Druid (Autumn and Winter) would be nice here, but I don't know if they make SENSE, since Druids relate primarily to the NATURAL WORLD, while this book is about people who draw on the power of the FEYWILD.  Similar for Hunters/Scouts/Seekers.

Bards getting an Essentials+ version would be interesting, and if they want to jump the gun, they can release a new build of Bladesinger in this book, since Neverwinter comes out before it.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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Like I said I only heard the name Bladesinger thrown out. Thank you for letting me know more.
Another good bet would be a feat chain that gives the Fey subtype. 
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
As I've stated before, at the very minimum in FR Archfey can and do function as Primal Spirits, so it's not a stretch to say they could outside of FR.

And the Winter Court of the Fey has had the most material out of any of the courts, and the Unseelie have a traditional connection to Fall and Winter.

So I don't think it would be at all out of place to have the Autumn and Winter seasons for Sentinels.


Unfortunately, I don't see the artificer getting any love from the Feywild book. It's just not a good fit with that storyline.




A bit off topic, and I have said this before, but I'd love to see a "Book of the Machine" or a Book of Black-powder" or something like that, that would deal with a (Martial Controller) Rifleman/Gunfighter and could deal with Alchemists and Artificers to greater detail. (Gun-Mage Artificer, anyone?)
As I've stated before, at the very minimum in FR Archfey can and do function as Primal Spirits, so it's not a stretch to say they could outside of FR.

And the Winter Court of the Fey has had the most material out of any of the courts, and the Unseelie have a traditional connection to Fall and Winter.

So I don't think it would be at all out of place to have the Autumn and Winter seasons for Sentinels.



That's because whoever designed FR doesn't understand the 4e Cosmological Balance of Great Powers.  They gave Primordials deitic portfolios, for Selûne's sake.  No, I don't think you can use FR's as a guide.

In Primal Power, there was a background about Primal Fey, and it talked about how you became a Primal Character because you discovered a place where the boundary between the Feywild and the Natural World was thin, and the arcane "buzz" was slightly replaced by the singing of the primal spirits. 

This is a major flavour statement:  the Feywild lacks the power of the spirits, and rather than having a spirit of nature in every rock, tree, breeze, and brook, is powered by arcane energy itself.  The Archfey are fundamentally different from the Great Elders:  the Archfey are the oldest of the Eladrin and other Fey entities that have become transformed by the magic of the Feywild into God-like beings in their age and knowledge.  The Great Elders, on the other hand, are spirits of nature that have stood since the world was born, representing the first natural formations and concepts.  The Great Elders are intangible entities; they do not exist in physical form; the Archfey are immortal fey being that very much do have a physical form.  These are major differences.  Just because FR made a statement early on in the edition to the contrary does not mean that's how it's meant to be.  The developers of 4e FR do not seem to understand the main concepts of the World Axis and the fundamental assumptions of 4e, mostly because they're concerned with converting FR to the 4e module.  That's okay, but I would NEVER take assumptions from another setting and copy-paste them here. 

It's the same with other settings – you can't copy-paste the flavour-mechanics choices to the Core Setting.  Take Eberron.  The Ancestor Spirits of the Elves are worshipped as a deity there, with it's own religion and domains.  But Ancestor Spirits are ALWAYS a form of Primal Spirit in the Core 4e Setting.  In Dark Sun, Elemental Magic is entwinned with Primal Magic.  As far we know in the Core Setting, Elementals are not the entities that Shamans ever make contact with, because the Elementals are not Primal Spirits, but entities of the Chaos representing builiding blocks.

 

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

so there could never be any new sorcerer builds but there could be a new sorcerer subclass? honestly i'll admit by desire for more sorcerer options is just blind hope. but i still think there's room to expand on old classes without making subclasses.
In Primal Power, there was a background about Primal Fey, and it talked about how you became a Primal Character because you discovered a place where the boundary between the Feywild and the Natural World was thin, and the arcane "buzz" was slightly replaced by the singing of the primal spirits. 

This is a major flavour statement:  the Feywild lacks the power of the spirits, and rather than having a spirit of nature in every rock, tree, breeze, and brook, is powered by arcane energy itself.  The Archfey are fundamentally different from the Great Elders:  the Archfey are the oldest of the Eladrin and other Fey entities that have become transformed by the magic of the Feywild into God-like beings in their age and knowledge.  The Great Elders, on the other hand, are spirits of nature that have stood since the world was born, representing the first natural formations and concepts.  The Great Elders are intangible entities; they do not exist in physical form; the Archfey are immortal fey being that very much do have a physical form.  These are major differences.


Loved this way of distinguishing them.
In Primal Power, there was a background about Primal Fey, and it talked about how you became a Primal Character because you discovered a place where the boundary between the Feywild and the Natural World was thin, and the arcane "buzz" was slightly replaced by the singing of the primal spirits. 

This is a major flavour statement:  the Feywild lacks the power of the spirits, and rather than having a spirit of nature in every rock, tree, breeze, and brook, is powered by arcane energy itself.  The Archfey are fundamentally different from the Great Elders:  the Archfey are the oldest of the Eladrin and other Fey entities that have become transformed by the magic of the Feywild into God-like beings in their age and knowledge.  The Great Elders, on the other hand, are spirits of nature that have stood since the world was born, representing the first natural formations and concepts.  The Great Elders are intangible entities; they do not exist in physical form; the Archfey are immortal fey being that very much do have a physical form.  These are major differences.


Loved this way of distinguishing them.


agreed
lots of things can be retconned between now and then..... and minds changed as what sounded cool two months ago..... may sound like trash now.

anyhoo...
what sounds like might be in the HOF
I agree
the mage illusionist might get a build since the enchanter was in one of the other two books.
a druid sentinel( I hate the sentinel; no wildshape) winter and  or autumn

new swordmage powers would be nice, but being that no other book had any I doubt it as HOS didnt have anyfor it.

fey warlock abilities
fey sorcerer  build
some new mage powers dealing with charm and illusion spells

elf drow eladrin gnome wildling, powers though they got elf,eladrin and drow already did get new write ups
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
lots of things can be retconned between now and then..... and minds changed as what sounded cool two months ago..... may sound like trash now.


Not really - WotC has noted in the past that their development cycle for a new book is in excess of a year, so with 5 months to go the material should be in the late playtest, editing, and layout stages in preparation for going to print a couple months before its release date. There's not a lot they can pull in at this point; the only analogous instance would be the addition of the Vampire and conversion to hardback of Heroes of Shadow which pushed it back a month on the schedule. If Heroes of the Feywild is going to be released in November (as listed by Amazon, et al) then they've only got two or three months left for development on the material. Not enough time to be changing out whole sections of a book.
“If the computer or the game designer is having more fun than the player, you have made a terrible mistake.” -Sid Meier
I expect bard (possibly a e-version) to show up here. I want some swordmage love, and could see a fey inspired build (fey liking teleporting and arcane magice, and swordmage has both). Likely fey pact warlock stuff (hexblade/binder/normal). Feywilds connection to arcane means both wizard and sorcerer could get some love.
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I expect bard (possibly a e-version) to show up here. I want some swordmage love, and could see a fey inspired build (fey liking teleporting and arcane magice, and swordmage has both). Likely fey pact warlock stuff (hexblade/binder/normal). Feywilds connection to arcane means both wizard and sorcerer could get some love.



What exactly is the connection between arcane magic and Feywild? Do arcanists somehow draw power from Feywild?
I expect bard (possibly a e-version) to show up here. I want some swordmage love, and could see a fey inspired build (fey liking teleporting and arcane magice, and swordmage has both). Likely fey pact warlock stuff (hexblade/binder/normal). Feywilds connection to arcane means both wizard and sorcerer could get some love.



What exactly is the connection between arcane magic and Feywild? Do arcanists somehow draw power from Feywild?



More the reverse, usually. Many of the Feywild denizens specialize in arcane magic. Eladrin, Gnomes, and Faeries are all known to use copius arcane abilities, and all originate in the feywild. There are plenty of other denizens that also love to use arcane magic.
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Some things I would like for the Fey:

Wilden, Gnome and I'll say it though I don't expect a Goblin racial revisions/expansions/general love

For the Bard a Courtier with a focus on the sorts of social skills that were always the class prerogative in the past, representing an Eladrin tradition of navigating the Fey Courts.

For the Thief/Scoundrel, a set of fey tricks specific to the Gnomes of the fey groves, reaching behind their own ear to reveal the evil wizards stolen amulet that was around his neck a moment before with a sly grin.

For the Mage the school of Transmutation (a witch of the feywild isn't complete without a copious set of powers that turn enemies into things a la Slimy T.)

For the Druid and the Seeker a selection of new seasons and spirits to call on.

A selection of feats to allow more mundane creatures access to the Fey Courts as a social hierarchy that grants certain powers (A Page, Knight, Noble progression prehaps)

A feyset class similar to Vampire, perhaps a Changeling defender that assumes a defense bonus specific to the enemy it mirrors and a power to knock enemies prone with a Tricker's Mark or Aura.
What exactly is the connection between arcane magic and Feywild? Do arcanists somehow draw power from Feywild?


Arcane magic permeates the entirity of exstence. However the place with the strongest concentration of arcane energy is the feywild. To put it one way, the feywild is an arcane reflection of the world. While not everyone in the feywild is able to access the "arcane power source" nearly everything in the feywild was either born of or draws upon arcane energy. That is why the realm is so fantastical and "magical".
Just as Primal magic surrounds and sustains the natural world, and Shadow magic wells from the darklands of the Shadowfell, Arcane magic permeates the Feywild, and has since the beginning of the plane.  Arcane Leylines stretch across the plane, drawing fonts of magical power.  While Arcane magic exists everywhere, and allows the science of magic to exist, it is most prevalent in the Feywild.  Just entering the plane is like stepping into a richer, more beautiful, more magical version of the world. 

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

lots of things can be retconned between now and then..... and minds changed as what sounded cool two months ago..... may sound like trash now.


Not really - WotC has noted in the past that their development cycle for a new book is in excess of a year, so with 5 months to go the material should be in the late playtest, editing, and layout stages in preparation for going to print a couple months before its release date. There's not a lot they can pull in at this point; the only analogous instance would be the addition of the Vampire and conversion to hardback of Heroes of Shadow which pushed it back a month on the schedule. If Heroes of the Feywild is going to be released in November (as listed by Amazon, et al) then they've only got two or three months left for development on the material. Not enough time to be changing out whole sections of a book.

From interviews and podcasts we know that HOF and Book of Vile Darkness are both not getting the 12+ month development cycle, the books werent even in planning until the dropping of the other 3 books due this year.  
From interviews and podcasts we know that HOF and Book of Vile Darkness are both not getting the 12+ month development cycle, the books werent even in planning until the dropping of the other 3 books due this year.  

Well, given where the other books that had accelerated schedules under the current R&D team (HotFL, HotFK, HoS) fell on the quality spectrum, I'd suggest everyone start setting their expectation level to "abysmally low" Tongue out so that the upcoming books have a chance to come in as better-than-expected. Wink

“If the computer or the game designer is having more fun than the player, you have made a terrible mistake.” -Sid Meier
From interviews and podcasts we know that HOF and Book of Vile Darkness are both not getting the 12+ month development cycle, the books werent even in planning until the dropping of the other 3 books due this year.  

Well, given where the other books that had accelerated schedules under the current R&D team (HotFL, HotFK, HoS) fell on the quality spectrum, I'd suggest everyone start setting their expectation level to "abysmally low" so that the upcoming books have a chance to come in as better-than-expected.




WAY ahead of ya!

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My expectation is that Heroes of the Feywild will follow Heroes of Shadow at least in style.  So where HoS took the opportunity to delve into more horror and anithero material, HotF can did into faerie tales and fantastical adventures.

My hope is that this means more tools for running fairy tale type adventures, especially for kids who have watched Disney movies.  The #1 missing element for me is the ability to play a fairy.  It would be awesome to have a player race of this type.  I mean, look at the product WotC released for kids about the Feywild: A Practical Guide to Fairies!

I envision a Fairy as a small sized creature (shorter than any so far) with wings but who generally doesn't fly very high off the ground.  The schtick could encompass shrinking down to fly around but losing any real combat ability (a-la the good fairies in Sleeping Beauty).
lots of things can be retconned between now and then..... and minds changed as what sounded cool two months ago..... may sound like trash now.


Not really - WotC has noted in the past that their development cycle for a new book is in excess of a year, so with 5 months to go the material should be in the late playtest, editing, and layout stages in preparation for going to print a couple months before its release date. There's not a lot they can pull in at this point; the only analogous instance would be the addition of the Vampire and conversion to hardback of Heroes of Shadow which pushed it back a month on the schedule. If Heroes of the Feywild is going to be released in November (as listed by Amazon, et al) then they've only got two or three months left for development on the material. Not enough time to be changing out whole sections of a book.



and by the time it took to post mine and for you to quote it, you should know that with each passing moment, I'm sure that the book has long finished passing its finishing developmentsmoments.

which makes both mine and your comments redundant.

as I said what sounded cool then may not now, by then I mean when it was first thought of, and by now I mean 4 months down the road from original thought.

and when we get the finnal product it wont matter as there will be people griping about it just the same.

dont deny it, you know it to be true....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
My expectation is that Heroes of the Feywild will follow Heroes of Shadow at least in style.  So where HoS took the opportunity to delve into more horror and anithero material, HotF can did into faerie tales and fantastical adventures.

My hope is that this means more tools for running fairy tale type adventures, especially for kids who have watched Disney movies.  The #1 missing element for me is the ability to play a fairy.  It would be awesome to have a player race of this type.  I mean, look at the product WotC released for kids about the Feywild: A Practical Guide to Fairies!

I envision a Fairy as a small sized creature (shorter than any so far) with wings but who generally doesn't fly very high off the ground.  The schtick could encompass shrinking down to fly around but losing any real combat ability (a-la the good fairies in Sleeping Beauty).



How about this: A Wizard or a Warlock can have an imp familiar, right? Fairy Familiar! That would be cool.

I don't see any reason why there couldn't be a Fey Sorcerer. Sorcerers draw power from their bloodline, right? Well, Fey are notorious cross-breeders. Makes sense to me.

I do love the idea of a Feytouched Rogue. Anywhere from dabbling to a full-on "thief-mage" "Arcane Trickster" style character. 
My expectation is that Heroes of the Feywild will follow Heroes of Shadow at least in style.  So where HoS took the opportunity to delve into more horror and anithero material, HotF can did into faerie tales and fantastical adventures.

My hope is that this means more tools for running fairy tale type adventures, especially for kids who have watched Disney movies.  The #1 missing element for me is the ability to play a fairy.  It would be awesome to have a player race of this type.  I mean, look at the product WotC released for kids about the Feywild: A Practical Guide to Fairies!

I envision a Fairy as a small sized creature (shorter than any so far) with wings but who generally doesn't fly very high off the ground.  The schtick could encompass shrinking down to fly around but losing any real combat ability (a-la the good fairies in Sleeping Beauty).



How about this: A Wizard or a Warlock can have an imp familiar, right? Fairy Familiar! That would be cool.

I don't see any reason why there couldn't be a Fey Sorcerer. Sorcerers draw power from their bloodline, right? Well, Fey are notorious cross-breeders. Makes sense to me.

I do love the idea of a Feytouched Rogue. Anywhere from dabbling to a full-on "thief-mage" "Arcane Trickster" style character. 


i think a fairy familiar already exists, last time i played LFR a player at my table told me he had one. it must be dragon article content. judging by the cover there will be a fairy dragon familiar. i'm with you on the fey sorcerer but not sure how likely that is now that we know that the elemental book is going to have sorcerer stuff. still could happen i guess? your feytouched trickster interests me. isnt the gnome PP called fey trickster though? so this idea needs a new name. cant call it rouge unless its a subclass, that i can see. the more i think about it however the closer i get to fey hexblade so maybe i'll just back off.
Rounding out the Sentinel options would be nice. I'm wishlisting for a Beguiler class (thought that would have been the option in place of the Binder in Heroes of Shadow - though illusion based can equally be as viable as Fey) and maybe a Jester class (Bard subtype maybe).