Phyrexian Mana Symbols + Size Change

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Phyrexian mana symbols for the mana cost tags are coming--I'm preparing the images to send in to Michelle for uploading. However, I realized while making them up that they really look better at the 15x15 size that Gatherer uses, rather than the 12x12 size that we currently use for mana symbols here on the forums--they're clearer and less blurry. However, having the Phyrexian mana symbols be a different size than the other ones offends my sense of aesthetics.

So...would anyone be upset if we changed to the 15x15 size for all the mana symbols? I'm probably really overthinking this and nobody will care, but I figured I'd ask your opinion anyway, since YMtC is after all the forum this would most heavily affect.


For comparison, at the 12x12 size the images look like this:

()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()

...Dangit, the Phyrexian ones still look too blocky; I'll make them more rounded if they actually get uploaded. Anyway, at 15x15 they look like this:

IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=x&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=1&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=2&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=3&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=4&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=5&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=6&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=7&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=8&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=9&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=10&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=11&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=12&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=13&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=14&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=15&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=16&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=w&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=u&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=b&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=r&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=g&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=2w&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=2u&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=2b&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=2r&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=2g&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=wu&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=ub&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=br&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=rg&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=gw&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=wb&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=ur&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=bg&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=rw&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=gu&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=snow&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=tap&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=untap&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=WP&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=UP&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=RP&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=GP&type=symbol)

For a comparison card to show what they'd actually look like in use, we'll use Hex Parasite:

Hex Parasite -
Artifact Creature - Insect
: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1

Versus:

Hex Parasite - IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=1&type=symbol)
Artifact Creature - Insect
IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=X&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol): Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. (IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol) can be paid with either IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=B&type=symbol) or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

This is a hard choice. 15x15 makes the mana symbols look nicer, but 12x12 aligns better with the text. Looking at giant mana symbols on regular sized text just doesn't bode that well with me.

I personally would rather keep the 12x12 size, but I wouldn't be too against switching to 15x15.
A little bit of courage is the real magic.
This is a hard choice. 15x15 makes the mana symbols look nicer, but 12x12 aligns better with the text. Looking at giant mana symbols on regular sized text just doesn't bode that well with me.

I personally would rather keep the 12x12 size, but I wouldn't be too against switching to 15x15.


Pretty much this exactly.
Increase default font size to 15 pixels tall.
This is a hard choice. 15x15 makes the mana symbols look nicer, but 12x12 aligns better with the text. Looking at giant mana symbols on regular sized text just doesn't bode that well with me.

I personally would rather keep the 12x12 size, but I wouldn't be too against switching to 15x15.


Pretty much this exactly.



same for me
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I'm leaning slightly toward the 152 ones.
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Awesome wording here, and the addition of conspire is inspired. Very nice.
I think either keep them the same or do what Detek said. having them big and the text small is off-putting.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

Increase default font size to 15 pixels tall.


That could work too :p
A little bit of courage is the real magic.
I'm okay with the smaller ones, though the larger ones are much better looking.
I much prefer having the symbols more in line with the text than prettier symbols at the cost of destroying text-symbol aesthetics. I can still clearly tell what the phyrexian symbol is at 12x12. 

Keep it 12x12.  
The larger symbols are a bit easier to read, especially the snow and phyrexian mana symbols. But I can hang with you either way. If you do go with the larger ones, I definitely agree that the default font size should be made larger so that text can remain flush with the symbols.

Xweetoks = ♥Happiness

I think it's kind of insane to change the entire board's default font size to accommodate our aesthetics, so it's prolaby best to stick with the small ones.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I think it's kind of insane to change the entire board's default font size to accommodate our aesthetics, so it's prolaby best to stick with the small ones.

 


We're important enough to warrant it
A little bit of courage is the real magic.
I love you Zammm just for asking us lol.

I am really split. I agree with all the arguments put out so far for both side. So, sorry, I probably can't contribute to voting either side. Is it possible to have both? Like I mean, use the 12x12 for default [ mc] tag. but make all of them available in "insert icon" or type with something like : u :

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

[spoiler MLP]Congratulations, you've found My Lie Policy: Only when i'm prompted, i might lie. (policy still in the refinement process.) [/spoiler] [spoiler I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.]I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green

[/spoiler]
I really can't stand the look of oversized symbols next to dinky text. As long as I can distinguish what the symbols are, I prefer text and symbol sizes to be equl.

So... 12x12.
Shouldn't this just be a poll?

If it were, I'd vote 12x12 just for aesthetics. I've always hated having to use mtgsalvation symbols whenever the situation required it for precisely the reason that they're too big. (Although Detektor's suggestion would be fine too. :3)

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I say 12x12. The only ones that look off are the Phyrexian ones, and that's a small price to pay for avoiding the horrid line spacing caused by the larger symbols. Phyrexian mana isn't that important.
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The larger symbols are a bit easier to read, especially the snow and phyrexian mana symbols. But I can hang with you either way. If you do go with the larger ones, I definitely agree that the default font size should be made larger so that text can remain flush with the symbols.



If default text size is changed to 15, then big symbols. Otherwise, smaller symbols to keep matching text size.

When I said it wasn't sarcasm, that was probably sarcasm. ~Thor665

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Shouldn't this just be a poll?

Two reasons it's not--first, I'm using this thread to gather feedback, not necessarily to make a decision. If I used a poll, people would feel I was obligated to go along with the majority, but that's not what I'm doing here. While I am listening to what everyone says on the subject and taking it into consideration, I'd prefer to come to a reasoned decision myself rather than be bound to blindly follow along with whatever the majority thinks. Majorities are not infalliable.

Second, this forum software doesn't allow polls in threads anyways.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.


Second, this forum software doesn't allow polls in threads anyways.



I used to lurk around the Dota-allstar (now deceased LOL) forum. And all the hero suggestion there must be accompanied by a binary poll. It was kinda annoying but it was a really rough way to see how well your "hero design" is received. 

Never occur to me we need anything like that here but I wonder why. 

I love-hate that poll-thread system. On one hand, you feel good if you have a really high rating. On the other hand, it's also a popularity contest. When you are well-liked around the forum, made reasonable posts, people will just thumbs you up.

Note: I don't mean we need it here. 

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

[spoiler MLP]Congratulations, you've found My Lie Policy: Only when i'm prompted, i might lie. (policy still in the refinement process.) [/spoiler] [spoiler I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.]I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green

[/spoiler]
I much prefer having the symbols more in line with the text than prettier symbols at the cost of destroying text-symbol aesthetics. I can still clearly tell what the phyrexian symbol is at 12x12. 

Keep it 12x12.  

This, please God this.

With the amount of use the symbols are going to get (ie, heavy for the next three months or so, then more than likely limited to none) I'd really prefer them at 12x12 and maintaining reasonable line breaks etc.
It's easy enough to fix the look of the 12x12 Phyrexian symbols.

Keep it 12x12.
Known as Blitzer on most forums. Despite the username, I am male. Both sex AND gender.
I much prefer having the symbols more in line with the text than prettier symbols at the cost of destroying text-symbol aesthetics.



Because


Hex Parasite -
Artifact Creature - Insect
: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


and


Hex Parasite - IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=1&type=symbol)
Artifact Creature - Insect
IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=X&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol): Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. (IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol) can be paid with either IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=B&type=symbol) or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


totally aren't the exact same freakin' thing.  Right?
Right.
I much prefer having the symbols more in line with the text than prettier symbols at the cost of destroying text-symbol aesthetics.



Because


Hex Parasite -
Artifact Creature - Insect
: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


and


Hex Parasite -
Artifact Creature - Insect
: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


totally aren't the exact same freakin' thing.  Right?



Speaking of which, I gotta demand paragraph reform.

They're bigger on actual cards; why not have them bigger here? (To be consistent you'd have to change hybrid too, I guess.)
blah blah metal lyrics
Wait, I demand an MSE-like app embedded directly in the forum! This would sidestep the issue entirely!
I much prefer having the symbols more in line with the text than prettier symbols at the cost of destroying text-symbol aesthetics.



Because


Hex Parasite -
Artifact Creature - Insect
: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


and


Hex Parasite -
Artifact Creature - Insect
: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


totally aren't the exact same freakin' thing.  Right?


right. they aren't. one has symbols the same size as the text and one has symbols that are larger.

how is this confusing?

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

This is what the font looks like when it is sized at 15px:

Hex Parasite IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=1&type=symbol)
Artifact Creature - Insect {R}

IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=X&type=symbol)IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol): Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed  this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. (IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=BP&type=symbol) can be paid with IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?size=small&name=B&type=symbol) or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


Looks fine to me.
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
This is what the font looks like when it is sized at 15px:

Hex Parasite 
Artifact Creature - Insect {R}

: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed  this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


Looks fine to me.


ew. the symbols fit better but the text is too big.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

12x12... the symbols themselves may look inferior, but the overall feel of a post will be a lot better. Although those 15x15's are looking particularly nice, zammm.

12x12.

ceci n'est pas une signature.

Can't we have the Phy simbols be bigger than the others? Like it happens in real life? Which reminds me, hybrid is also supposed to be bigger than "normal" symbols.
Nothing really matters.
Anyone can see.
I would like to see a better version of the symbols, mostly if it is possible... but i think that it is best to use the 12x12 symbols.

Also the sooner the symbols come, the better. No matter how they looks. 
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card: [c]cardname[/c]-> [c]Vampire Nighthawk[/c] -> Vampire Nighthawk
12x12

It seems that the only thing that's making the phy-mana look blocky is the fact that it's octagonal compared to the others. Can't you just round off the edges to make the phy-mana circular like the other symbols?
It seems that the only thing that's making the phy-mana look blocky is the fact that it's octagonal compared to the others. Can't you just round off the edges to make the phy-mana circular like the other symbols?

Yes; the reason it's like that is that the source image I used had a black background and I didn't quite compensate fully for that. I'll be sure to fix it before sending anything in to Michelle.

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

12x12


I like my imaginary cards to look pretty.

~Wonko the Sane~
Mana Symbol Order
One color - list that color: (ubrg), (w) (brg), (wu) (rg), (wub) (g), or (wubr) Two "ally" (i.e. adjacent) colors - start in the empty space, then move clockwise: (brg) , (rgw) , (gwu) , (wub) , or (ubr) Two "enemy" (i.e. not adjacent) colors - start in the larger of the two empty spaces, then move clockwise: (rg) (u) , (gw) (b) , (wu) (r) , (ub) (g) , or (br) (w) Three "ally" colors (Alara shards) - start in the empty space, the move clockwise: (rg) , (gw) , (wu) , (ub) , or (br) Three "wedge" colors (two adjacent and one away from the other two) - start with the "enemy" color, then move clockwise: (u) (g), (b) (w), (r) (u), (g) (b), or (w) (r) Four colors - start in the empty space, then move clockwise: (g) , (w) , (u) , (b) , or (r) Five colors - start with white, then move clockwise:
I say 12x12. The only ones that look off are the Phyrexian ones, and that's a small price to pay for avoiding the horrid line spacing caused by the larger symbols. Phyrexian mana isn't that important.

About this.

I mean, in two months or so nobody is going to make cards with Phyrexian mana anyway.
While we're at it, can we make copy-pasting text here not look completely awful?
While we're at it, can we make copy-pasting text here not look completely awful?

I've already asked about that, and the answer is apparently that fixing the WYSIWYG editor so it doesn't happen is really hard to do, since they have very little control over what formatting programs attempt to include along with copied text.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

This is what the font looks like when it is sized at 15px:

Hex Parasite 
Artifact Creature - Insect {R}

: Remove up to X counters from target permanent. For each counter removed  this way, Hex Parasite gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ( can be paid with or 2 life.)
Drawn by power, fueled by conquest.
1/1


Looks fine to me.


Oh god the text size is disgusting.

I'd go with 12x12, as someone said earlier in the thread, nobody will care about Phyrexian mana in a couple of months.
I have a sig because it gives my posts better spacing.
You are awesome. I can't imagine the amount of work you put into this forum.

I don't mind with either size.

A neat side effect of the 15-pixel version: If we learn to write the card text in 15-pixel font and other explanatory text in normal font, our posts would actually be easier to read and the main part (the card text) would stand out. 

How about putting an item named "card text" under the Format selection tool?

Although it might be a hassle to switch font sizes within a post... 
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