My Gloom Pact Hexblade just can't find a stand out weapon...

16 posts / 0 new
Last post
It's entirely possible that I'm missing something, but I can't find a really stand out implement for my Gloom Pact Hexblade that is lvl 7 or 8. I mean, there are good ones, I just don't see any that stand out as particularly good for Gloomblades.


Anything I should be doing differently?

Also, I'd prefer a rod, since I really like the Rod Expertise Feat, and the character had a rod before changing pacts, and I'd like to keep the look and feel at least somewhat similar.

Note: the hexblade guide doesn't have an equipment section yet, and I didn't want to bog down the discussion in that thread, or have my question lost in all the other stuff being discussed.

Right now, it's looking like a generally damage bonus is really all that's really cool for him.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
The general lack of decent rods for anyone who doesn't either have Warlock's Curse or divine powers is a known issue, though no less annoying for that. The Rod of Stolen Starlight isn't terrible for a gloomblade. The Curse-based property is useless, but being able to turn your necrotic damage into radiant at will is very useful if you expect to face undead, and hexblades don't mind the minor action cost as much as other warlocks do. The Rod of Deadly casting is also pretty good, if boring. The Rod of Malign Conveyance can be fun, and plays to the gloomblade's controller side.

Really, though, I'm more of a fan of orbs for gloomblades, since the Expertise feat synergises nicely with their forced movement powers.
"There's an old saying that all it takes for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing. I've always had a problem with that. If you do nothing to oppose evil, then how are you 'good'? To turn aside and allow evil to flourish is to collaborate with it. You ask for mercy. You claim you have done nothing. That 'nothing' is why you deserve no mercy." - Lorian Karthfaerr, drow paladin of Avandra Robin Laws says I'm a Storyteller:
Show
You're more inclined toward the role playing side of the equation and less interested in numbers or experience points. You're quick to compromise if you can help move the story forward, and get bored when the game slows down for a long planning session. You want to play out a story that moves like it's orchestrated by a skilled novelist or film director. Storyteller 92% Tactician 83% Method Actor 75% Butt-Kicker 67% Power Gamer 67% Specialist 58% Casual Gamer 8%
The general lack of decent rods for anyone who doesn't either have Warlock's Curse or divine powers is a known issue, though no less annoying for that. The Rod of Stolen Starlight isn't terrible for a gloomblade. The Curse-based property is useless, but being able to turn your necrotic damage into radiant at will is very useful if you expect to face undead, and hexblades don't mind the minor action cost as much as other warlocks do. The Rod of Deadly casting is also pretty good, if boring. The Rod of Malign Conveyance can be fun, and plays to the gloomblade's controller side.

Really, though, I'm more of a fan of orbs for gloomblades, since the Expertise feat synergises nicely with their forced movement powers.



Hrm...I might look into orbs. I'll take a second look at those rods, as well. Thanks for the advice.

I'd have to change my mc to get orb implement, or take implement proficiency (ugh), but if it's enough of a difference, it may be worth it.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Also, for gloompact hexblades that mc assassin (with a reach weapon, it's not that hard to move three squares in most turns, so cursed shadows is pretty cool) there are a couple decent ki focuses. Didn't look that closely at those before.

Shadow Master Ki Focus could be good for stealth focused hexblade/assassins of any pact, and Abduction Ki Focus is pretty nice for Gloomblades, since it gives you a free action one square slide against any enemy you hit with a melee basic attack, which means you can slide one square twice every time you hit with your pact at will.

If your game hasn't changed the mc assassin impliment prof yet to only include ki focuses, the Flail of Winds enchantment does about the same thing as the Abduction Ki Focus, in the end. You can get it in scourge form, so you can put it in your off hand.

Of course, that has the downside of being stuck with flail expertise. Oh wait...

Bloodthirsty Ki Focus has a damage bonus against bloodied enemies, which will stack with the one from ki expertise, if you like your damage bonuses to not come into effect until the enemy is already half dead... :P

So, I've got to decide if I want more control, or more damage output...
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Isn't there a rod that is also a mace?  Using that you can add a shard of a mage to it no problem (and then you could add a different shard to your flail if you like).
Isn't there a rod that is also a mace?  Using that you can add a shard of a mage to it no problem (and then you could add a different shard to your flail if you like).



Hrm....is there a shard that helps necrotic damage?

also, thank goodness my group isn't that into fighting lots of undead.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
For starters, Shard of the Mage adds untyped damage to implement powers. Since every power you have has the implement keyword, that should be the automatic shard of choice. And I think the Mace/Rod that was mentioned is called Rod of Dispater. Apparently, Dispater is a level 28 medium immortal humanoid (devil) solo controller. Have fun with that, although asking him nicely to borrow his mace for two levels couldn't hurt (much). Now, onto the ki focus topic....

A ki focus will make things... complicated. You can't hold a ki focus so you're still going to need to hold a second implement in your hand so that you can manifest your pact weapon and to attack with. Second, since there is no errata (yet) to the Assassin and Monk multiclass feats in the compiled update changes, you can technically use any weapon you are proficient with as an implement (for now). This may be the discussion you were referring to in the Hexblade guide which we were having sometime last week.

Also, it should be noted that the Abduction ki focus adds a slide to your MBA, rather than increasing your existing sliding ability. So, it may not be compatible with Flesh Rend. However, a superior ki focus with the Forceful property would be quite useful. The Iron and Mountain ki [enter preferred form of plural focus here] both provide that property, and there are other interesting options for an enchanted ki focus.

And lastly, having access to a ki focus means that you are able to benefit from the magical properties of the ki focus and your implement whenever you use Flesh Rend or any of the other powers that have both the weapon and implement keywords. So, instead of shopping for just one implement, you really should be shopping for two (a ki focus plus another implement) and see if there any that complement each other if you do pick up a multiclass with access to ki focus implements.

If you are unsure on how a ki focus will work with a Hexblade (and Hexblades have a lot of grey rules area), you can check out the following discussions:

Implement and Weapon keywords plus ki focus - Hexblade Guide
Monk/Assassin multiclass feats and implements they provide - Hexblade Guide, Rules Q&A

Or, you can save yourself and your DM the brain hemorrhage and just stick with a rod/wand.
For starters, Shard of the Mage adds untyped damage to implement powers. Since every power you have has the implement keyword, that should be the automatic shard of choice. And I think the Mace/Rod that was mentioned is called Rod of Dispater. Apparently, Dispater is a level 28 medium immortal humanoid (devil) solo controller. Have fun with that, although asking him nicely to borrow his mace for two levels couldn't hurt (much). Now, onto the ki focus topic....

A ki focus will make things... complicated. You can't hold a ki focus so you're still going to need to hold a second implement in your hand so that you can manifest your pact weapon and to attack with. Second, since there is no errata (yet) to the Assassin and Monk multiclass feats in the compiled update changes, you can technically use any weapon you are proficient with as an implement (for now). This may be the discussion you were referring to in the Hexblade guide which we were having sometime last week.

Also, it should be noted that the Abduction ki focus adds a slide to your MBA, rather than increasing your existing sliding ability. So, it may not be compatible with Flesh Rend. However, a superior ki focus with the Forceful property would be quite useful. The Iron and Mountain ki [enter preferred form of plural focus here] both provide that property, and there are other interesting options for an enchanted ki focus.

And lastly, having access to a ki focus means that you are able to benefit from the magical properties of the ki focus and your implement whenever you use Flesh Rend or any of the other powers that have both the weapon and implement keywords. So, instead of shopping for just one implement, you really should be shopping for two (a ki focus plus another implement) and see if there any that complement each other if you do pick up a multiclass with access to ki focus implements.

If you are unsure on how a ki focus will work with a Hexblade (and Hexblades have a lot of grey rules area), you can check out the following discussions:

Implement and Weapon keywords plus ki focus - Hexblade Guide
Monk/Assassin multiclass feats and implements they provide - Hexblade Guide, Rules Q&A

Or, you can save yourself and your DM the brain hemorrhage and just stick with a rod/wand.



I think I might just ignore the whole Ki Focus + other impliment issue (for now, to keep things simply), whether I use a Ki Focus or not. And my group worked a fix out for not being able to hold a ki focus a while back. We've decided you can, put simply.

:P As for the Rod of Dispater, as a DM, I would just allow a character of appropriate level to buy/select the item as normal.

My reading of Abduction Ki Focus is that it allows you to slide a target that you hit with an MBA. I figure that means that the power lets me slide, and then the item property allows me to slide the target. I could be missing something, though. Let me know.

And yes, that is the discussing of which I was thinking. As interesting as it is, using both seems like it is probably not RAI, so I'm not sure I want to mess with it just to end up losing it later as the rules are clarified, if that makes sense.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
:P As for the Rod of Dispater, as a DM, I would just allow a character of appropriate level to buy/select the item as normal.



His creature card says he's wielding it, but the compendium shows that it is an uncommon item, which implies that multiple versions of it could exist. *shrugs*

My reading of Abduction Ki Focus is that it allows you to slide a target that you hit with an MBA. I figure that means that the power lets me slide, and then the item property allows me to slide the target. I could be missing something, though. Let me know.



I do not believe that is RAW since both slides would trigger at the same time. You might be able to find a discussion on Mark of Storm dealing with slide powers (Footwork Lure, Overwhelming Strike) to see how those played out. I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading something on that topic and this would be the same situation.

And yes, that is the discussing of which I was thinking. As interesting as it is, using both seems like it is probably not RAI, so I'm not sure I want to mess with it just to end up losing it later as the rules are clarified, if that makes sense.



I'm sure some things occured with the Hexblade that they did not intend. However, it seems pretty clear that they intended to add both the weapon and implement keywords. Every pact has them, and the Gloom pact was initially released with just the weapon keyword on their pact weapon powers. The fact that it now has both seems to show a clear intention that you are indeed attacking with both your weapon and implement.

What probably wasn't intended was gaining access to a ki focus and having access to more than one magical enchantment when making the attack, although I'd imagine the developers would be aware of multiclass interactions when designing a class that is usable with all 4e content. But, if you're intent on holding a ki focus via your houserule, it doesn't matter since your pact weapon will share the magical properties of your ki focus. Although, I can't see how that house rule is beneficial at all (except maybe to the DM, because he can now seperate you from your implement). To each their own, I guess.
:P As for the Rod of Dispater, as a DM, I would just allow a character of appropriate level to buy/select the item as normal.



His creature card says he's wielding it, but the compendium shows that it is an uncommon item, which implies that multiple versions of it could exist. *shrugs*

My reading of Abduction Ki Focus is that it allows you to slide a target that you hit with an MBA. I figure that means that the power lets me slide, and then the item property allows me to slide the target. I could be missing something, though. Let me know.



I do not believe that is RAW since both slides would trigger at the same time. You might be able to find a discussion on Mark of Storm dealing with slide powers (Footwork Lure, Overwhelming Strike) to see how those played out. I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading something on that topic and this would be the same situation.

And yes, that is the discussing of which I was thinking. As interesting as it is, using both seems like it is probably not RAI, so I'm not sure I want to mess with it just to end up losing it later as the rules are clarified, if that makes sense.



I'm sure some things occured with the Hexblade that they did not intend. However, it seems pretty clear that they intended to add both the weapon and implement keywords. Every pact has them, and the Gloom pact was initially released with just the weapon keyword on their pact weapon powers. The fact that it now has both seems to show a clear intention that you are indeed attacking with both your weapon and implement.

What probably wasn't intended was gaining access to a ki focus and having access to more than one magical enchantment when making the attack, although I'd imagine the developers would be aware of multiclass interactions when designing a class that is usable with all 4e content. But, if you're intent on holding a ki focus via your houserule, it doesn't matter since your pact weapon will share the magical properties of your ki focus. Although, I can't see how that house rule is beneficial at all (except maybe to the DM, because he can now seperate you from your implement). To each their own, I guess.




It's beneficial because I can use a Ki Focus with my pact weapon this way, without having to do weird things, which is enough for me. I suppose I could (for as long as the update to monk/assassin mc rules fails to be put into place) hold a non-magical weapon in my offhand, and use the ki focus through that. Could I just hold a nonmagical implement in my offhand and use the ki focuses enchantment through that?

Abduction:

Property: Whenever you hit an enemy with a melee basic attack using this ki focus, you can slide the target 1 square as a free action.

Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier necrotic damage, and you can slide the target 1 square.

(copy pasted for convenience) I am thinking that it's RAW, since the slide from the power is part of the action of using the power, and the weapon property is a free action triggered by (and thus occurring after) the attack.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
On Ki Foci, you can hold those in your off-hand and use them as an implement that way.  Also, you can get the Reaching property on one of the Superior Ki Focus, and melee something 3 squares away.

Alternatively?  Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blade), MC Fighter, Polearm Momentum, wield a Staggering Glaive in the off-hand for an implement.  Now you use Flesh Rend, you slide the creature 2 or more squares, knock it prone, and give it that -2 penalty to attack rolls.
On Ki Foci, you can hold those in your off-hand and use them as an implement that way.  Also, you can get the Reaching property on one of the Superior Ki Focus, and melee something 3 squares away.

Alternatively?  Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blade), MC Fighter, Polearm Momentum, wield a Staggering Glaive in the off-hand for an implement.  Now you use Flesh Rend, you slide the creature 2 or more squares, knock it prone, and give it that -2 penalty to attack rolls.



About ki foci and Assasins:
IMPLEMENTS

Assassins focus their shadow energy through a ki focus, which is not an object they wield but a reservoir of magical power within themselves. When using a ki focus, an assassin taps into the power of shadow magic and channels it into both implement and weapon attacks.



If there's a rule that allows you to hold a ki focus, I'm not aware of it.

As for your suggestions, you could do both if you go with Traveler's Harlequin, and then pick up Cursed Shadow for the Shadow Walk class feature as a bonus.

If someone figures out how to make at-will hide checks on a Hexblade, let me know. I have a fey pact that is trying to figure it out. Right now, I can do 4 hide checks per encounter, but would rather dump the restriction and free up some utility choices (almost all of them are invisibility powers).
If there's a rule that allows you to hold a ki focus, I'm not aware of it.


PHB 3, P.203 under Ki Focuses.  Also in HoS, P.159.
"Once you have attuned yourself to a ki focus, you must either wear or hold it to use it as an implement."
If there's a rule that allows you to hold a ki focus, I'm not aware of it.


PHB 3, P.203 under Ki Focuses
"Once you have attuned yourself to a ki focus, you must either wear or hold it to use it as an implement."



Ah ha, perfect. I lack a PHB3.
I ran a session that used my hexblade character as a macguffin, and it went very well. He started  as a halfling white well hexblade, and is now a revenent gloom pact hexblade. The players ventured into the shadowfell, met Drasek Riven (demi-god of Shadows and former chosen of Mask) who is now my character's patron, and fought through shadar-kai agents of netheril and some wraiths to get into the Shadowkeep.

Lots of fun. One character considered murdering my character while he was recovering from the whole death/ressurection in a new body thing, but my character talked him out of it.

I took the feat that allows you to use your old race's racial power, which kind of means that there's little actual difference between the character now and before, as far as race goes, but it works fluff wise, so I went with it.

Anyway, thanks for the help here. Finnan mac Marwolaeth (son of death) appreciates the guidance.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
The general lack of decent rods for anyone who doesn't either have Warlock's Curse or divine powers is a known issue, though no less annoying for that. The Rod of Stolen Starlight isn't terrible for a gloomblade. The Curse-based property is useless, but being able to turn your necrotic damage into radiant at will is very useful if you expect to face undead, and hexblades don't mind the minor action cost as much as other warlocks do. The Rod of Deadly casting is also pretty good, if boring. The Rod of Malign Conveyance can be fun, and plays to the gloomblade's controller side.

Really, though, I'm more of a fan of orbs for gloomblades, since the Expertise feat synergises nicely with their forced movement powers.




Wow...SO glad that I came across this thread and saw your point about the Rod of Stolen Starlight...so  that means you could use that Rod's power to change the necrotic damage of an Infernal Hexblade's Soul Eater power into radiant, right?