04/29/2010 TWTW: "Getting to the Core of Commander (or, Cheating to Jin)"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's The Week That Was, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I'm almost amused by the the claim people will allow Karn's ultimate to go off, "just because everyone will want to have been part of the experience".

I'm really missing the desirable experience here; He just undoes everything, then allows his player to win the game. (Barring some really fast responses). Commander games can turn into a prolonged epic struggle, which is part of the fun. Karn undoes everything about that. Where's the fun?

Seeing Karn on any table will provoke the same reaction in me as any post-Lorwyn non-Sarkhan planeswalker has: Kill it first, then get back to enjoying the game.

I'm not that sure about Gitaxias, though he also seems a little over the top. Drawing seven is fine, wiping hands is fine, but putting both on a wrath-dodging instant basically turns it into Coalition Victory.
Methinks Wizard's "brilliant plan" to design cards specifically for EDH is going to backfire into designing cards immediately banned in EDH while being laughably terribad everywhere else.
This. I don't think the current way of 'designing for EDH' is the right way. Jin seems kinda overpowered, and Karn doesn't seem fun at all.

2 mistakes:
-Green always had ways to kill something like Debtors' Knell cheaply and quickly.
-Torpor Orb does not render Solemn Simulacrum utterly vanilla.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Triumph of the Hordes in your deck.  Giving all your creatures +2/+2, trample, and infect will be a game breaker.  I expect it to be either banned in the format right away or the single card that will be responsible for incresing the number of poinon counters needed to defeat an opponent from 10 to 20.
I have to agree with sentiments posted here. Both Karn and Jin are really powerful cards that will warp the game in 'unfun' ways once they hit play. I'm not quite sure what is so fun about 'resolve an instant speed answer or lose'(For Jin, I mean). That's fine in constructed, but not in casual, which is what Commander is about in my opinion.

I think part of the appeal to the format is that your deck plays differently every game, and allows a lot of room for creativity at the same time. Cards that are too powerful and demand an answer right away will make this difficult. (So is playing a hundred million tutors, Mr. Mormir)
Honestly it doesn't look like he'll even be fun to control; I mean, sure, you win, but in a very un-interactive way.  

All of a sudden it turns from a fun game against one or more people into....just a Goldfish deck test where the goldfish gets a couple more permanents than ususal.  Hooray, that's so much fun

Yeah, I know there's ways of dealing with him.  That doesn't change the fact that you basically have to have those ways out on the field, or in instant-form in your hand with mana open, right then. Suddenly not having a hand really crimps the ability to deal with problems.  Especially 5/4 problems that draw their controller lots of answers of their own.
I concur.
I like control, but Jin and the new karn don't look fun to play with. Cards that basically shut other players out of the game like these do are not multiplayer friendly.
I like control, but Jin and the new karn don't look fun to play with. Cards that basically shut other players out of the game like these do are not multiplayer friendly.


Jin doesn't seem all that damaging to the opponent, actually. By the time you cast it, your opponent's hand is probably between zero and two cards already on an average turn. All you make them do is discard their empty hand. That clause is probably mostly there just to make the card impressive.
I like control, but Jin and the new karn don't look fun to play with. Cards that basically shut other players out of the game like these do are not multiplayer friendly.


Jin doesn't seem all that damaging to the opponent, actually. By the time you cast it, your opponent's hand is probably between zero and two cards already on an average turn. All you make them do is discard their empty hand. That clause is probably mostly there just to make the card impressive.



Or hurt people who draw a lot of cards.  Finding a way to get him out early leads to even worse situations.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
Jin doesn't seem all that damaging to the opponent, actually. By the time you cast it, your opponent's hand is probably between zero and two cards already on an average turn. All you make them do is discard their empty hand. That clause is probably mostly there just to make the card impressive.



First turn reanimate and EDH.
Jin doesn't seem all that damaging to the opponent, actually. By the time you cast it, your opponent's hand is probably between zero and two cards already on an average turn. All you make them do is discard their empty hand. That clause is probably mostly there just to make the card impressive.



First turn reanimate and EDH.


The empty hand this still applies to EDH and the whole point of reanimator decks is to break cards that shouldn't be in play when they are.
The empty hand this still applies to EDH and the whole point of reanimator decks is to break cards that shouldn't be in play when they are.



Those hands won't be that empty. At the very least the reanimator part thus shows that clause isn't just ornamental.  
The empty hand this still applies to EDH and the whole point of reanimator decks is to break cards that shouldn't be in play when they are.



Those hands won't be that empty. At the very least the reanimator part thus shows that clause isn't just ornamental.  



I'm just saying, it barely comes up when the card is used as intended. They probably let it stay for the sake of symmetry because of that. Of course it could be broken wide open, but we say that every preview cycle and we're right about 10% of the time. 
The empty hand this still applies to EDH and the whole point of reanimator decks is to break cards that shouldn't be in play when they are.



Those hands won't be that empty. At the very least the reanimator part thus shows that clause isn't just ornamental.  



I'm just saying, it barely comes up when the card is used as intended. They probably let it stay for the sake of symmetry because of that. Of course it could be broken wide open, but we say that every preview cycle and we're right about 10% of the time. 



Well that depends on what's actually 'intended' =p Argentum Armor is said to have been created just for Godo, Bandit Warlord. Wizards is doing more for that format lately. I do think Jin is designed/intended for EDH.

The ability also works against reactionary instants, like counterspells, as it will be harder to have any on hand against Jin.

I'm just saying that I think it will matter a lot in the games it'll be played. The kind of games/decks that play it will be select however, indeed.
Well that depends on what's actually 'intended' =p Argentum Armor is said to have been created just for Godo, Bandit Warlord.


I would kind of like to believe that.
Well that depends on what's actually 'intended' =p Argentum Armor is said to have been created just for Godo, Bandit Warlord.


I would kind of like to believe that.



Ah, here it is:

www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...


"I am often asked if we design cards for the EDH format (a.k.a. Commander on Magic Online). The answer is yes. Argentum Armor, if my memory serves me, was designed by Ken specifically to put into his Godo, Bandit Warlord deck."


 

Well that depends on what's actually 'intended' =p Argentum Armor is said to have been created just for Godo, Bandit Warlord.


I would kind of like to believe that.



Ah, here it is:

www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...

"I am often asked if we design cards for the EDH format (a.k.a. Commander on Magic Online). The answer is yes. Argentum Armor, if my memory serves me, was designed by Ken specifically to put into his Godo, Bandit Warlord deck."



The funny thing is, I know I've read that exact line. It just never registered how deranged that is before.