Jandor's Ring

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Jandor's Ring, as printed, has the card discarded as part of the effect. However, the oracle wording has it discarded as part of the cost. The wording of the ability should be:
:2mana:, :T:: Discard the last card you drew this turn. If you do, draw a card.

Sig
Disclaimers
My initial responses to rules questions are usually just answers. If you want an explanation as to why, say so. Just because it says I'm there, I'm not necessarily there. I leave my browser open so I don't have to reload ~30 tabs. Anyone who wants to text duel me through either PM or chat can just PM me with a format (and a time if playing through chat). I don't play standard.
# Card Blind Hall of Fame
3CB
3CB #1 (1/30/11): Won by silasw, with Mishra's Factory, Orzhov Basilica, Vindicate. 3CB #2 (2/13/11): Won by Vektor480, with Mishra's Workshop, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 3CB #3(2/20/11): Joint win between defuse, with Saprazzan Skerry, Scalding Tongs, Energy Field; and Mown, with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Inkmoth Nexus, Sheltered Valley 3CB #4(3/13/11): Won by Mown, with Keldon Megaliths, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Boros Garrison 3CB #5(3/20/11): Won by silasw, with Black Lotus, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
5CB
5CB 1 (3/6/11): Won by Maraxus-of-Keld, with Tropical Island, Thallid, Nether Spirit, Daze, Foil
quotes
56819178 wrote:
So, how would I use a card that has a large in the top half and "sui?l? -- pu?? ?is?q" across the middle?
57031358 wrote:
99113151 wrote:
Winning is not important if: 1. You win by a blowout. 2. You pay billions of dollars in cards to win. If you like wasting money just to win one game, while you could have saved it to lose a few and end up winning more in the future, then it is fine by me.
what? do you ceremonially light your deck on fire after a win?
57169958 wrote:
Or did no one notice Transmogrifying Licid before. (And by not notice, I mean covered their ears and shouted LA LA LA LA )
57193048 wrote:
57169958 wrote:
Hmmm... I think the most awkward situation at the moment is simply the Myr Welder / Equipment / Licid / Aura craziness, but I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.
If the most awkward thing going on right now involves Licids, I declare victory.
56287226 wrote:
We regret to inform you of Trevor Kidd's untimely demise in an unfortunate accident involving a mysteriously blown breaker box and a photophobic creature of unknown origin at his home near Renton, Washington. We at the Wizards Community apologize for any inconvenience or delay, and assure you we'll be preparing a replacement to assume his duties as soon as we finish warming up the cloning vats.
[02:47:46] It doesn't merely "come out of suspend" - you take the last time counter off, and then suspend triggers and say "now cast that! CAST IT NOOOOOW!" [02:47:49] Because suspend has no indoors voice
[10:11:33] !opalescence [10:11:33] Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment. · Reserved,UD-R,Vin,Leg,Cla,USBC [10:11:51] *sigh* [10:12:10] Otecko: Do you have a question about Opalescence? [10:12:17] sure [10:12:23] $10 on humility interaction [10:12:25] :P [10:12:29] :D [10:12:47] humility + opalescence put into play by replenish
Ego
58325628 wrote:
Mage is awesome, BTW.
56967858 wrote:
Dear Mage24365, You are totally awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you are able to dine in Paradise without kicking the bucket to actually get there, and that every dollar you ever make magically becomes two more.
58158398 wrote:
56761258 wrote:
I don't think there are any cards like that. There are things that prevent you from activating activated abilities, things that increase their cost, and things that counter them, but I don't think anything triggers from them specifically. There are things that trigger from targeting, so that might be relevant, but I can't think of anything that triggers from targeting a player. I'm almost positive there's nothing that triggers from damage being prevented.
Rings of Brighthearth; Dormant Gomazoa; Samite Ministration.
56761258 wrote:
Well played.

 

While the colon for activated abilities had been invented by revised, putting things besides mana and the tap symbol in front of it had not.

See Dwarven Weaponsmith for another card with the same "problem." Bottle of Suleiman and Atog had the same template, but have had it updated since in more recent printings.
All Generalizations are Bad
Root, your other examples are (relatively) clear that the other part is also a cost. Other older cards sometimes used "to" to denote the same.

Jandor's Ring, on the other hand, reads much more closely to a standard looter.
Ok, I'll admit that the template on Jandor's Ring is a bit different from the ice age printings of Coral Helm, Krovikan Sorcerer, Stormbind and Nature's Blessing. They all used the word "to" to indicate that discarding the card enabled the ability.
All Generalizations are Bad
Jandor's Ring has much bigger problems: for instance, there is absolutely no rules support currently for identifying the "last card you drew this turn." Moreover the printed text would suggest I could discard any of the three cards I drew from Brainstorm (I "just drew" all of them), whereas the rulings make it clear I can only discard the third.

Let's all be grateful the mana cost is so high it sees no serious tournament play.
Jandor's Ring has much bigger problems: for instance, there is absolutely no rules support currently for identifying the "last card you drew this turn." Moreover the printed text would suggest I could discard any of the three cards I drew from Brainstorm (I "just drew" all of them), whereas the rulings make it clear I can only discard the third.

Let's all be grateful the mana cost is so high it sees no serious tournament play.



It's called "English." That's how we can define "the last card you drew this turn." As for the Brainstorm effect, the "last card you drew" that's still in your hand is at least one of the ones in your hand (depending on what you put on top), and I'm fairly sure any of the ones drawn from the 'storm could be discarded for this effect.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

Jandor's Ring has much bigger problems: for instance, there is absolutely no rules support currently for identifying the "last card you drew this turn." Moreover the printed text would suggest I could discard any of the three cards I drew from Brainstorm (I "just drew" all of them), whereas the rulings make it clear I can only discard the third.

Let's all be grateful the mana cost is so high it sees no serious tournament play.



It's called "English." That's how we can define "the last card you drew this turn." As for the Brainstorm effect, the "last card you drew" that's still in your hand is at least one of the ones in your hand (depending on what you put on top), and I'm fairly sure any of the ones drawn from the 'storm could be discarded for this effect.



The problem with "the last card you drew this turn" is that the game itself doesn't provide you the means to ensure the player isn't cheating.  If you have multiple cards in your hand, you're allowed to shuffle them, order them, etc.  That is, other players aren't entitled to know which card was put into the hand at what time.  So they'd normally have no way of knowing if you actually discarded the last card you drew or some other card.

Now, if you're playing with Jandor's Ring, you can intentionally keep the last card drawn separate from the others.  This isn't something the rules mention, but it would let other players see that you actually are discarding the right card.  However, this only works if you've already been doing that before you decide to activate Jandor's Ring's ability (so if you haven't been doing that, but you then cast the Ring and activate its ability immediately, there's a problem, and if you decide to keep the card separate beforehand, your opponent will only that you intend to use Jandor's Ring).

As for Brainstorm, the point was that the printed text doesn't match the Oracle text.  The printed text refers to "a card you just drew from your library".  For a simpler example, Divination tells you to draw two cards, and it's not at all clear that the second one counts as "a card you just drew from your library" while the first one doesn't.  I suppose it's understandable that they decided to just give it wording that unambiguously points to a single card, rather than try to define what qualifies as "just".

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, though (or if I do understand what you're saying, it's wrong).  The "last card you drew" is the last card you drew; not the last card you drew that's still in your hand.  It refers only to a single card (the third one from the Brainstorm, for example).  If you put that card back onto your library (or played it, discarded it, etc.), then the "last card you drew" is no longer in your hand, so you wouldn't be able to pay the cost.  It makes more sense then to have the discard be part of the cost, since you'd otherwise often get the card without needing to discard anything (and I don't think the printed wording of a card that old is a good enough indication that this loophole is intentional).
It makes more sense then to have the discard be part of the cost, since you'd otherwise often get the card without needing to discard anything (and I don't think the printed wording of a card that old is a good enough indication that this loophole is intentional).



I think "to replace it" makes it clear that even if the discard is part of the effect, the draw only happens if you actually discard. That is, "2, T: Discard the last card you drew this turn. If you do, draw a card."



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