[Archetype] UB Infect (Control and Tezz)

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poison



Archetype UB INFECT


What is UB Infect?

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UB Infect comes in several different forms, but they all use poison as their win condition, rather than having to hit your opponent for 20 points of damage, you half the amount of damage you need. Using efficient creatures like Phyrexian Crusader, you can quickly muster enough damage.

Types of UB Infect


There are two different competitive UB infect decks, whilst they keep the same basic core of Phyrexian Crusader and Inkmoth Nexus, they do vary in the rest of their card choices and in their overall strategy. Below is a breakdown for both sub-archetypes.


UB Control-Infect

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This build uses a  control shell, but rather than using the usual Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine, running Infect creatures like Phyrexian Crusader, Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon, and sometimes Necropede, it doesn’t have to hit the opponent as many times in order to get the win. Along with Inkmoth Nexus, comes a small proliferation package involving Contagion Clasp, and Tumble Magnet. These cards enable control of the board, as well as the ability to clock your opponent without creatures, thanks to Contagion Clasp which also helps keep you planeswalkers healthily stocked.

Card Choices


Creatures

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Phyrexian Crusader – This is one of the best creatures I standard, and a must for all infect decks. His protection and first strike make him great in most match ups.
Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon – Reasonably unaffected by Jace’s Unsummon ability, haste and regeneration make for a mean card that can clock quickly. Since most removal allows regeneration, he becomes very difficult to deal with and often wins the turn you cast him with B mana open.
Necropede – A good little blocker who gets you great 2-for-1 value against a lot of decks, slowing up aggro to help you control the board.
Phyrexian Vatmother – Sometimes main decked, sometimes in the sideboard, this guy can take on most creatures of the same converted mana cost, but ends games quickly when turning sideways. His drawback however can sometimes be quite relevant and make him weak in match ups.

Non-Creature Permanents

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Jace Beleren – A neat card draw engine.
Contagion Clasp – It can kill of small creatures, and provides the deck with inevitability and synergises well with the rest of the deck.
Tumble Magnet – Taps down either attacks or blocker for whatever stage of the game you are in, with the Clasp, it becomes a dominating presence.
Ratchet Bomb – A good source of removal that comes down early and can be tailored to your needs, although it’s often a bad top deck.
Liliana Vess – Just like with regular UB control, Liliana Vess is a good card who can find what you need and eek out card advantage over several turns.
Sword of Feast and Famine – Some decks run this card to improve their creatures and make pushing damage through easier. However in these controlling builds, it’s often less usual.
Corrupted Conscience – More of a sideboard card, this allows the player to neuter an opposing creature whilst generating board position.  A very frightening prospect when you steal a Titan.
Spreading Seas – Once a staple of standard, now it usually sits in sideboards, ready to take away green sources or Valakuts against that particular deck.

Spells

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Inquisition of Kozilek – A great way to open the game, it tells you about your opponent’s strategy and picks a hole in their hand. Able to pick off many relevant cards within standard.
Duress - Similar to Inquisition of Kozilek, it provides knowledge and the ability to take Jace out of people’s hands. Duress is better in the late game, Inquisition in the early game.
Preordain – A helpful way to set your hand, get rid of unwanted top decks and find what you need.
Mana Leak – A very potent counterspell to control how the board shapes up.
Stoic Rebuttal – Another counterspell, this can sometimes be cheaper, but having a few hard counters make the control of the board a lot easier.
Deprive – Once again, a hard counter that is even cheaper and allows you to stop scary threats.
Into the Roil – A cantripping bounce spell that not only can remove blockers, but can mess with people’s tempo and slow them down, pushing the game longer which is a more favourable position for you.
Doom Blade – A brilliant removal spell that hits everything relevant aside from Grave Titan and Creeping Tar Pit.
Dismember - A clearly powerful removal spell.
Go For The Throat – This card fills in where Doom Blade misses, generally you won’t mind playing either, but the ability to artefact creature is more relevant than killing black creatures at present, so Doom blade is the better choice.
Black Sun’s Zenith – A great removal spell that dodges protection, whilst sorcery speed and a little slow, builds with Liliana Vess can reuse it over and over.
Consume the Meek – Excellent removal, instant speed makes it very worthwhile, and it gets around protection nicely.
Spell Pierce – A useful counterspell in control match ups, that can force through important spells.
Negate – A good counterspell, but less so these days with so many creatures, however against decks like Tezzeret, it’s excellent.
Disfigure – A cheap removal spell for smaller creatures, often more of a sideboard choice, it is very efficient for it’s cost.
Virulent Wound – Some decks use this instead of Disfigure, but the ability to hit Goblin Guides, opposing Phyrexian Crusaders and Stoneforge Mystics usually makes Disfigure the better choice.
Memoricide – Generally a sideboard card, it’s an effective way to shut down some strategies.
Flashfreeze – A useful sideboard card that gives you a cheap hard counter against some of the top decks.

Lands

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Creeping Tar Pit – It can kill Planeswalkers, as well as block and make an alternate clock if needed.
Inkmoth Nexus – A brilliant kill condition, and cheap to activate.  Always run four.
Tectonic Edge – Useful, but sometimes the colourless hurts alongside Nexus.
Darkslick Shores – Good mana fixing that helps cast early spells.
Drowned Catacomb - Good mana fixing that helps cast hasty dragons.
Island – Basics are obvious.
Swamp – Obvious again.
Marsh Flats, Scalding Tarn, Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacomb – Fetch lands can be used to give extra shuffles which help with Jace to get better card selection.
Mystifying Maze – A potentially useful way to keep creatures at bay.

General Strategy


Since this is a control deck, you want to spend your cards wisely. Card advantage is key, and when it comes to counterspells, it’s best to use on things that will be threatening you, rather than utility spells of your opponent. A good way to think about playing the deck, is that you will win eventually, just stop your opponent from winning and worry about hitting them for ten later on.


Decklists

Brain Kibler’s, 3rd place SCG Open(Pre-Banning)

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4 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
(10)
4 Contagion Clasp
4 Tumble Magnet
2 Jace Beleren
(10)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
1 Deprive
1 Into The Roil
4 Mana Leak
(14)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Creeping Tar Pit
6 Swamp
4 Island
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
(26)
SIDEBOARD(15)
3 Phyrexian Vatmother
3 Disfigure
2 Doom Blade
2 Flashfreeze
1 Go For The Throat
1 Into The Roil
1 Jace Beleren
2 Duress

Matt Demarino, 4th place TCQ(Pre-Banning)

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2 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
4 Phyrexian Crusader
(6)
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Corrupted Conscience
(9)
4 Preordain
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Black Sun’s Zenith
1 Grim Discovery
4 Virulent Wound
4 Mana Leak
2 Into The Roil
(19)
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
 4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Island
4 Swamp
(26)
SIDEBOARD(15)
1 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Flashfreeze
3 Memoricide
2 Negate
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Vampire Hexmage


:U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B::U::B:

UB Tezz-Infect

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This version places far less stock in the idea of controlling the game, whilst it plays removal and discard with the odd counter, it focuses on making explosive plays thanks to Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. He can turn your two drop Necropede or Plague Myr into a two turn clock, or even your Inkmoth Nexus becomes lethal quickly. This extra potency gives the deck the ability to win on turn four, but it has enough tools to last the long game thanks to Tezzeret, Skittles and other tools.

Card Choices

Creatures

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Necropede – A great creature for taking on aggro, and becomes a monster with Tezzeret.
Plague Myr – This card allows for the tempo boost than can give you turn four wins, or just fielding Jace, The Mind Sculptor first. Also a monster with Tezzeret.
Phyrexian Crusader – This creature is too good to not run, the best infect creature available.
Skythirix, The Blight Dragon – An excellent finisher, with the ability to end games out of nowhere and dodge removal.
Phyrexian Vatmother – A useful creature who can take on aggro effectively, as well as being a fast clock off of a turn two plague myr.
Ichorclaw Myr – Another early artifact infector, however not as good as the myr or necropede.
Pilgrim’s Eye – Some builds use this guy because he can be found with Tezzeret and provide card advantage.

Non-Creature Permanents

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Jace Beleren - A nice little draw engine.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas – Generates card advantage as well as monstrous win conditions.
Contagion Clasp – Can provide an inevitable clock, a blocker with Tezzeret if needed, as well as some removal.
Tumble Magnet – Another card that’s found with Tezzeret, and helps control the board and get hits in.
Mortarpod – Can be found with Tezzeret, helps take out small creatures as well as being a source of poison when equipped to an infect guy.
Sword of Feast and Famine – Obviously ridiculous with Phyrexian Crusader. I see this card as Tezzeret 5-7 in terms of having a way to pump my early artifact creatures into powerhouses.
Throne of Geth – It can have its uses in terms of finishing off your opponents and ramping up your planeswalkers.
Ratchet Bomb – A good source of removal, that can be found with Tezzeret.
Brittle Effigy – A great way of dealing with Titans and Wurmcoil Engines, and can be gotten by Tezzeret.
Corrupted Conscience – A fantastic way to deal with creatures on your opponent’s board, no more than 2 in your 75 cards though.

Spells

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Inquisition of Kozilek – A great way to open the game, it tells you about your opponent’s strategy and picks a hole in their hand. Able to pick off many relevant cards within standard.
Duress - Similar to Inquisition of Kozilek, it provides knowledge and the ability to take Jace out of people’s hands. Duress is better in the late game, Inquisition in the early game.
Preordain – A helpful way to set your hand, get rid of unwanted top decks and find what you need.
Deprive – Once again, a hard counter that is even cheaper and allows you to stop scary threats.
Dismember - Good removal, but this deck is weakest to fast aggro like steel, so it's not so hot here.
Into the Roil – A cantripping bounce spell that not only can remove blockers, but can mess with people’s tempo and slow them down, pushing the game longer which is a more favourable position for you.
Doom Blade – A brilliant removal spell that hits everything relevant aside from Grave Titan and Creeping Tar Pit.
Go For The Throat – This card fills in where Doom Blade misses, generally you won’t mind playing either, but the ability to artefact creature is more relevant than killing black creatures at present, so Doom blade is the better choice.
Black Sun’s Zenith – A great removal spell that dodges protection, whilst sorcery speed and a little slow, builds with Liliana Vess can reuse it over and over.
Consume the Meek – Excellent removal, instant speed makes it very worthwhile, and it gets around protection nicely.
Mana Leak – A very potent counterspell to control how the board shapes up.
Stoic Rebuttal – Another counterspell, this can sometimes be cheaper, but having a few hard counters make the control of the board a lot easier.
Spell Pierce – A useful counterspell in control match ups, that can force through important spells.
Negate – A good counterspell, but less so these days with so many creatures, however against decks like Tezzeret, it’s excellent.
Disfigure – A cheap removal spell for smaller creatures, often more of a sideboard choice, it is very efficient for it’s cost.
Virulent Wound – Some decks use this instead of Disfigure, but the ability to hit Goblin Guides, opposing Phyrexian Crusaders and Stoneforge Mystics usually makes Disfigure the better choice.
Memoricide – Generally a sideboard card, it’s an effective way to shut down some strategies.
Flashfreeze – A useful sideboard card that gives you a cheap hard counter against some of the top decks.


Lands
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Creeping Tar Pit – It can kill Planeswalkers, as well as block and make an alternate clock if needed.
Inkmoth Nexus – A brilliant kill condition, and cheap to activate.  Always run four.
Tectonic Edge – Useful, but sometimes the colourless hurts alongside Nexus.
Darkslick Shores – Good mana fixing that helps cast early spells.
Drowned Catacomb - Good mana fixing that helps cast hasty dragons.
Island – Basics are obvious.
Swamp – Obvious again.
Marsh Flats, Scalding Tarn, Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacomb – Fetch lands can be used to give extra shuffles which help with Jace to get better card selection.
Mystifying Maze – A potentially useful way to keep creatures at bay.

General Strategy


Ideally, you want to disrupt your opponent a little, whilst making big creatures with Tezzeret. Having swords give you extra ways to make your two drop infectors powerful, so you aren’t all in on Tezzeret. Whilst you often chip down with some of your creatures, you can often find yourself killing them in one hit, Tezzeret will almost always be making 5/5’s. When sideboarding, if you remove a lot of artifacts, it’s a good idea to drop a copy of Tezzeret as well.

Here are some useful articles about the deck:

www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/03/crucible-...
www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/02/crucible-...
www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/08/video-art...
www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/07/crucible-...


Decklists


Alexander Lapping, 11th place SCG Open(Pre-Banning)

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3 Pilgrim’s Eye
4 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
(11)
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Throne of Geth
3 Mortarpod
4 Tumble Magnet
(20)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
(4)
4 Creeping Tarpit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Island
7 Swamp
(25)
SIDEBOARD(15)
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Plague Myr
2 Doom Blade
2 Go For The Throat
4 Duress
4 Memoricide

Redzilla, 2nd place Magic League Standard Trial(pre-Banning)

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1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
2 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Plague Myr
(11)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tumble Magnet
2 Adventuring Gear
2 Mox Opal
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
(13)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Disfigure
3 Spell Pierce
(12)
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Swamp
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Marsh Flats
(24)
SIDEBOARD(15)
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Duress
3 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Corrupted Conscience


Cyrus Bales’ Decklist, Undefeated at a 7 round nats Q, and piloted to 5-1-1 by another player at the same event.(Pre-banning)

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4 Necropede
4 Plague Mr
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
(14)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
(14)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Doom Blade
(7)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Island
7 Swamp
(25)
SIDEBOARD(15)
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
3 Memoricide
1 Corrupted Conscience
3 Disfigure
3 Spell Pierce
3 Duress



Cyrus Bales' PTQ Winning Decklist (This is how the decklist currently looks)
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4 Plague Myr
4 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skittles
(14)
4 Tezz
2 Jace Beleren
3 Sword of Feast and famine
(9)
3 Ratchet Bomb
(3)
3 Doom Blade
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Despise
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
(9)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Island
6 Swamp
(25)


SIDEBOARD(15)
3 Memoricide
3 Despise
3 Disgifure
3 Negate
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Doom Blade



Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
This looks ABSOLUTELY amazing, Cyrus.

If I may offer a little criticism, I think a section to show what possible cards from New Phyrexia can be added would be great.  Even if it is simple card choices like Despise.  I would love to see that.

Like I said, great work

EDIT:  Also, Cyrus, I'd take out the results you got from the magic-league trial.  Magic-league trials aren't good enough to show actual results since there are a lot of bad players on magic-league.  Granted, there are a lot of good players, like Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa (he barely plays on magic-league anyways) and others, but there are a lot more bad players.  Unless it is from a magic-league Master, which is 7 rounds cut to top 8, I'd leave out the trials.  Masters show better what the meta is like (6 UW Caw Blade and 2 UB Control XD).
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
Its....beautiful!
looks good (and grats with National Q i see), gonna try a slightly tweeked list of what you used i think at a FNM sometime
want to link single cards or your deck? look at the spoiler
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for 1 card use [c.][/c.] (but then without the dots) example: [c.]cardname here[/c] for a compleet list use [deck.][/deck.] (but then without the dots) example: [deck.] lands: # x name of land1 # x name of land2 And So On Creatures: # x name of creature1 # x name of creature2 And So On Spells: # x name of spell1 # x name of spell2 And So On Sideboard: # x name of sideboardcard1 # x name of sideboardcard2 And So On [/deck.]
This looks ABSOLUTELY amazing, Cyrus.

If I may offer a little criticism, I think a section to show what possible cards from New Phyrexia can be added would be great.  Even if it is simple card choices like Despise.  I would love to see that.

Like I said, great work

EDIT:  Also, Cyrus, I'd take out the results you got from the magic-league trial.  Magic-league trials aren't good enough to show actual results since there are a lot of bad players on magic-league.  Granted, there are a lot of good players, like Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa (he barely plays on magic-league anyways) and others, but there are a lot more bad players.  Unless it is from a magic-league Master, which is 7 rounds cut to top 8, I'd leave out the trials.  Masters show better what the meta is like (6 UW Caw Blade and 2 UB Control XD).



Thanks Halo, I thought it was a curious list, which is why I posted it up here. In terms of NPH cards, I wanted to start a bit of discussion first, so it doesn't seem like I'm trying to dictate what is good to people etc.

For me, the playables for this deck:

Praetors Grip - Possibly a good card to steal Jaces with in control match ups.
Corrupted Resolve - Basically counterspell here, replaces Stoic Rebuttal as the 2-3 of hard counter.
Tezzeret's Gambit - A draw spell that poisons and pumps walkers.
Torpor ORb - Fantastic SB card for a lot of decks, possibly MD in the Tezz builds eve.
Mental Misstep - THe deck is blue, so we'll see if this becomes needed.
Life' Finale - Could be a better replacement for some of the mass removal, since you don't run that much mass removal anyway, and this weakens their draws and stops them from drawing the good ol Sun Titan after you sweep them.
Phyrexia Metamorph - Good in tezz infect, a 5/5 crusader is nice, also he is versatile.
Despise - Another one drop discard, can be used in conjunction with others to make the best 75.
Geth's Verdict - Removal spells are still removal spells, this is quite a good one, even though the life is irrellevant, the BB cost is probably the only reason it won't get played here.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
I know alot of people don't like it, but I really think that Caress of Phyrexia could have a possible place in this deck. It can serve as card draw or a finisher. Possible 2-3 of

Yes it's expensive, yes it's a little clunky. But...how many times have we had our opponent to 7+ poison counters and not been able to seal the deal. With something like this, we could possibly sit back and play defense if we need to, until the coast is clear, and then win.

We proliferate, but at what cost? If we are concerned only about poison counters then CoPhy (Which I hereby dub Coffee...and yes I know it's phi not phee...sue me 8P) would actually be a mana advantage (3 proliferates=12-5 for CoPhy)
"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
Cyrus how can you forget about surgical extraction? That card can be a 4 of in any color deck and personally i think its gonna get run in 90% of control decks when NPH comes out



It isn't nearly as good as you think.
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
Turn one duress, I'll pick jtms and pay 2 life and get rid of the rest! Maybe it's just me who thinks this card is amazing :/
Turn one duress, I'll pick jtms and pay 2 life and get rid of the rest! Maybe it's just me who thinks this card is amazing :/



Thanks, you just got 2-1'd. Also that's a horrible play. They can't even cast jace until they get 4 mana. If your going to use it, wait at least until turn 3 or so. This way they can possibly draw one, and you can hand-**** them a little more. I know the meta is pretty established, but you don't always know what the most relavant threat in the deck is.


In caw blade, I'd rather they tap out for a hawk, tutor them up, then kill it and play SE, Much more value imo, as there hand size just dropped by 3.


The problem, and this has been said in other threads, is that Surgical extraction is inherent card disadvantage. In order to get of the Jace, you had to play duress. To get the rest you paid 2 life (minor cost) and another card. This is inherent card disadvantage. The cards in your deck are not seen or counted as a threat in most situations. Basically, in order for Extraction to work, it has to combo with something else. Even if you see cards in the library as threats, the best you have just done is 1-2'd yourself. What if an opponent isn't running a full 4? then it's a 1-1.5 etc, whatever else.

It is a decent sideboard card, but to be honest I would rather play memoricide because that way I can use 1 card to possibly hit all 4 threats.

Others have stated that bad players will absolutely love this card, and good players will think it's meh but stick it in a SB. It is what it is, but....

(mindtrick)This is not the bomb your looking for /mindtrick



"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
Turn one duress, I'll pick jtms and pay 2 life and get rid of the rest! Maybe it's just me who thinks this card is amazing :/



Thanks, you just got 2-1'd. Also that's a horrible play. They can't even cast jace until they get 4 mana. If your going to use it, wait at least until turn 3 or so. This way they can possibly draw one, and you can hand-**** them a little more. I know the meta is pretty established, but you don't always know what the most relavant threat in the deck is.


In caw blade, I'd rather they tap out for a hawk, tutor them up, then kill it and play SE, Much more value imo, as there hand size just dropped by 3.


The problem, and this has been said in other threads, is that Surgical extraction is inherent card disadvantage. In order to get of the Jace, you had to play duress. To get the rest you paid 2 life (minor cost) and another card. This is inherent card disadvantage. The cards in your deck are not seen or counted as a threat in most situations. Basically, in order for Extraction to work, it has to combo with something else. Even if you see cards in the library as threats, the best you have just done is 1-2'd yourself. What if an opponent isn't running a full 4? then it's a 1-1.5 etc, whatever else.

It is a decent sideboard card, but to be honest I would rather play memoricide because that way I can use 1 card to possibly hit all 4 threats.

Others have stated that bad players will absolutely love this card, and good players will think it's meh but stick it in a SB. It is what it is, but....

(mindtrick)This is not the bomb your looking for /mindtrick






Oh come now... That was a bit harsh. I also must say I disagree with you a bit on the value of the card. So, you rather waste 4 mana and potentially a turn to have your memoricide countered instead of deal with it quickly and efficiently? I don't see the point. While I agree I may use it a bit later than turn 1, I would use it. It's simply efficient. I find hand searching a little less valuable than removal. I would NOT waste removal on a hawk and SE for a grand total of (usually) 3 mana. I lose some board control...
Extraxtion is unplayable. There's an article on Channel Fireball that explains it in detail.
Extraxtion is unplayable. There's an article on Channel Fireball that explains it in detail.



Unplayable in a vacuum, sure. But I disagree that it's unplayable.

This is the list I've been toying with for NPH-

25 Lands

4 Tar Pit
4 Darkslick
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Jwar isle Refuge
9 Swamp
1 Halimar Depths

2 Hex Parasite
4 Spellskite
4 Obliterator
2 Grave Titan

4 Preordain
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 GTTF
1 Doom Blade

2 Sphere of the Suns
2 Mimic Vat
3 Tumble Magnet
4 Tezz
4 Jace TMS

Sideboard
4 Mana Leak
4 Flashfreeze
3 Memoricide
4 Phyrexian Crusader

This has been doing well against valakut, caw-blade, and aggro, though it's weak to a fast KRed hand. Unfortunately, an opposing spellskite is backbreaking.

Photobucket
Extraxtion is unplayable. There's an article on Channel Fireball that explains it in detail.



Unplayable in a vacuum, sure. But I disagree that it's unplayable.



It's unplayable in Standard; but I was posting from my phone so I decided to abbreviate.


EDIT: Article here: www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-deve... 
I know alot of people don't like it, but I really think that Caress of Phyrexia could have a possible place in this deck. It can serve as card draw or a finisher. Possible 2-3 of

Yes it's expensive, yes it's a little clunky. But...how many times have we had our opponent to 7+ poison counters and not been able to seal the deal. With something like this, we could possibly sit back and play defense if we need to, until the coast is clear, and then win.

We proliferate, but at what cost? If we are concerned only about poison counters then CoPhy (Which I hereby dub Coffee...and yes I know it's phi not phee...sue me 8P) would actually be a mana advantage (3 proliferates=12-5 for CoPhy)



The problem with that card, is that if it doesn't kill them, they draw card from it, which is bad. (This is the five mana, 3 poison, 3 life, 3 cards sorcery). Well, basically put, these deck have the card advantage to get those last poison counters on. And in termf of proliferating, it weakens their guys, it gives them poison, it pumps Tumble Magnet and it pumps planeswalkers. These are all relevant things.

If you have JTMS and Tumble magnet out and start proliferating, they basically lose the ability to do anything meaningful in terms of combat, this lock down may seem slow, but easy to assemble, and all the parts are useful in other situations too. Proliferate is a much better use of mana, the clasp can be found with tezzeret, and it's a two mana spell that has relevant effects when you cast it, killing cobra etc, or putting a counter on stoneforge so you can kill it later in response to equip thanks to proliferate.

I think I've summed it up, but if you want more clarification, let me know
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
Extraxtion is unplayable. There's an article on Channel Fireball that explains it in detail.



Unplayable in a vacuum, sure. But I disagree that it's unplayable.



It's unplayable in Standard; but I was posting from my phone so I decided to abbreviate.


EDIT: Article here: www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-deve... 



I've read the article, and the author clearly misunderstands the point of SE. He's saying a 1-mana spell is unplayable against caw-blade because its 4-mana equivalent is too slow to stop a stoneforge. Too bad turn 1 IoK followed by SE forces Caw-Blade to play fair in terms of early game pressure.

But that's not even the point. SE is meant to be an answer to vengevine or bloodghast, and that's largely because R&D miscalculated on the impact vengevine was going to have on standard. They figured this was going to be a healthy rock-paper-scissors format, and the inclusion of hex parasite + despise + beast within was going to force Jace decks into needing an answer for vengevine.

Photobucket
Extraxtion is unplayable. There's an article on Channel Fireball that explains it in detail.



Unplayable in a vacuum, sure. But I disagree that it's unplayable.



It's unplayable in Standard; but I was posting from my phone so I decided to abbreviate.


EDIT: Article here: www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-deve... 



I've read the article, and the author clearly misunderstands the point of SE. He's saying a 1-mana spell is unplayable against caw-blade because its 4-mana equivalent is too slow to stop a stoneforge. Too bad turn 1 IoK followed by SE forces Caw-Blade to play fair in terms of early game pressure.

But that's not even the point. SE is meant to be an answer to vengevine or bloodghast, and that's largely because R&D miscalculated on the impact vengevine was going to have on standard. They figured this was going to be a healthy rock-paper-scissors format, and the inclusion of hex parasite + despise + beast within was going to force Jace decks into needing an answer for vengevine.



He does acknowledge the use as graveyard hate in an offhanded comment, but you and I both know that's not why people think it's good/want to play it. The point of the article is to show why Memoriciding generally is of limited use, and then the real unplayableness of Extraction is because it needs you to already have dealt with it. 
first off, while SE is no where near as good as people are saying, it is FAR from unplayable. i dont think anyone (who is decent at magic) will argue that a turn 1 duress/despise + SE to 86 all jace is a desireable play, it is also not the worst thing you could do ether...and in the end, it will only REALLY shine in MBC (if at all) with a T1 IoK grabbing stoneforge, killing there T2 hawk, then sad-sacing there equipment on T3 and hand hitting them for 3 hawks with SE does NOT suck.

but really, it is nither here nor there, since this thread is NOT for discussing SE's playability in general...i think we are gonna have to accept that some people will play it, even if it hurts the deck. the best ting we can do is say something like "i would run X over SE" and leave it at that when people ask for a critique on lists with it...otherwise this will be a full on thread-jack...and that isnt helpful. also, it doesnt seem prudent to post your non-infect decklists here...

finally, THANK YOU Cyrus...i have been trying to get a UB infect thread up for months (even started a few) and yours is beautiful! i will come back in a bit and post a list (pre and post NPH) for critique...i lost my notebook with the list written down :/ lol

To me, there is no such thing as an evil personality trait or spiritual condition. There is only sin, concrete and deliberate action that is simply wrong. It is what happens when one goes against one's nature. It germinates in the shadow of risks untaken. It ripens in power exorcised. Beings like us can take risks no one else can, and exorcise power no one else has. We have the greatest capacity for sin, through action, or inaction.

57183108 wrote:
56783528 wrote:
Meh, not sure whether this is entirely accurate, at least for concept decks. Sometimes an unrefined idea cannot beat the top dogs at first, but with a few suggestions and heavy playtesting, they might get there. Islands' diamond in the rough lists are a good rebuttal to your statement.
Islands' decks are more gazing into the abyss of madness and madness staring back at you. With Manamorphose.
I think the problem with Surgical Extraction is that if you are using duress and despise as your hand manipulation package (perhaps with hexmages in the sideboard), you are going to be leaving them top decking for the threat you are worried about. The 4 card slots you give up for Surgical Extraction could be used much more effectively for putting in threats of your own, especially when dealing with U/B infect. 

If you are playing a very control version of U/B infect, you would rather have counter spells, or direct removal.

If you are playing a tezzeret version of U/B infect, you would rather be drawing artifact creature threats, or other pieces of your general win condition.

I am not saying that SE is a terrible sideboard play, against certain decks, it's going to be very unpleasant. The problem I see though is that it's reactive to the situation. Which does make Memoricide a better card choice against decks such as Valukut or decks that somehow rely heavily on Jace TMS. For SE to be the broken card that everyone was all excited about, it would have to have a duress ability built in to put a target in the graveyard. As it is, it's a combo card that could do real damage to some decks.  If someone combo'd away my tezzeret for my U/B infect, it wouldn't bother me at all, even though tezz is a really nice part of the deck strategy. It would simply be like me not drawing him, which happens regularly anyway. 

Next post... an infect deck.  

DCI Rules Advisor 06/15/2011

 

I never let my mind wander. It's too small to let it go off by itself

 

CCG achievements Still calls the games CCGs and not TCGs... bah, young 'uns!

Decipher games 2001 North American Continental Champion - Inaugural Hall of Fame Inductee - Responsible for killing Young Jedi CCG (really!)

Wizards of the Coast games Won my one and only Pokemon tournament using only Pikachu and Raichu in the deck - and declaring loudly "PEEE-KAH-CHUUUUU" -- true story. 

DCI Rules Advisor 06/15/2011

 

I never let my mind wander. It's too small to let it go off by itself

 

CCG achievements Still calls the games CCGs and not TCGs... bah, young 'uns!

Decipher games 2001 North American Continental Champion - Inaugural Hall of Fame Inductee - Responsible for killing Young Jedi CCG (really!)

Wizards of the Coast games Won my one and only Pokemon tournament using only Pikachu and Raichu in the deck - and declaring loudly "PEEE-KAH-CHUUUUU" -- true story. 

aranel, I REALLY like this deck build...I also do not have any JTMS's, so my current build looks similar to the above, but with a much more limited card pool (I only started collecting again last month).  While I also would go much more creature heavy (that's just my personal preference...), the META definitely calls for something to be done to get past JTMS, and Distortion Strike looks like a good answer.

My build looks a little like this:

Lands (24)




4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Evolving Wilds
5x Swamp
1x Island

Creatures (20)

4x Phyrexian Crusader
3x Necropede
3x Ichorclaw Myr
3x Plague Stinger
2x Corpse Cur
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2x Hand of the Praetors
1x Carnifex Demon


This is where I run into problems though...my personal card pool is weak...I have 3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas but not the suite of other spells like your build.  I would like to run Mortarpods and Contagion Clasps, but how many Clasps? I do think I'm going to shamelessly steal the Distortion Strike idea, if you don't mind.  I'm not THAT big a fan of Inquisition/Duress, and I'm not 100% sure the META calls for it, especially if you're staring at a turn 4 Tezz, with a Skithiryx behind him.  I like Carnifex Demon as the kill bomb.

I like some other high cost artifact bombs, Contagion Engine & Phyrexian Juggernaut but I feel they are slightly too costly.

I've played UB for years and years starting from Unlimited, so perhaps I just like the feel of this combination.  The deck, UB Tezz-Infect, definitely has that dark feel of Black splash Blue, and I do think it will have a LONG life in Standard.  Great posting.

To me, there is no such thing as an evil personality trait or spiritual condition. There is only sin, concrete and deliberate action that is simply wrong. It is what happens when one goes against one's nature. It germinates in the shadow of risks untaken. It ripens in power exorcised. Beings like us can take risks no one else can, and exorcise power no one else has. We have the greatest capacity for sin, through action, or inaction.

57183108 wrote:
56783528 wrote:
Meh, not sure whether this is entirely accurate, at least for concept decks. Sometimes an unrefined idea cannot beat the top dogs at first, but with a few suggestions and heavy playtesting, they might get there. Islands' diamond in the rough lists are a good rebuttal to your statement.
Islands' decks are more gazing into the abyss of madness and madness staring back at you. With Manamorphose.

Well Torpor orb should be enough to shut down the RU combo deck, along with removal. I guess you could run the new 1(B/PH)(B/PH) killspell since it deals with him for one mana if needed?
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
CyrusBales,

Thank you for getting this thread started. I must admit I have been tinkering with a U/B infect deck since scars and have been updating with the likes from MBS. Here is my deck and at my local FNM I have continuously been in the top 4, for the past 5 weeks.

Land (24)
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Darkslick Shores
5x Swamp
4x Island
3x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacomb 
1x Inkmoth Nexus
Enchantment (4)
4x Spreading Seas
Artifacts (4)
1x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Sword of Vengeance
2x Contagion Clasp
Creature (16)
4x Plague Myr
4x Plague Stinger (Blighted Agent)
4x Phyrexian Vatmother
4x Phyrexian Crusader
Sorcery (8)
4x Distortion Strike
4x Preordain
Instant (4)
2x Regress
2x Into the Roil
Sideboard (15)
3x Contaminated Ground(Evil Presence)
3x Doom Blade
3x Flashfreeze(Corupted Resolve)
3x Mana Leak
3x Marsh Casualties

I have idea's for a few swaps when NPH comes out.

I am going to switch to the cards in perenthisis.
I am White/Green
I am White/Green
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here goes my ideas for a monoblue infect with architect

Lands
20 Island
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Creatures
4 Grand Architect
4 Blighted Agent
4 Viral Drake
4 Plague Myr/Necropede
Artifacts
4 Contagion Clasp
2 Contagion Engine
Tumble Magnet
2 Ratchet Bomb
Spells
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Steel Sabotage

with black Virulent Wound is a must and maybe Grim Affliction or Caress of Phyrexia
ehh my deck does not conform to the said topic, will post another thread :]
CyrusBales,

Thank you for getting this thread started. I must admit I have been tinkering with a U/B infect deck since scars and have been updating with the likes from MBS. Here is my deck and at my local FNM I have continuously been in the top 4, for the past 5 weeks.

Land (24)
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Darkslick Shores
5x Swamp
4x Island
3x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacomb 
1x Inkmoth Nexus
Enchantment (4)
4x Spreading Seas
Artifacts (4)
1x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Sword of Vengeance
2x Contagion Clasp
Creature (16)
4x Plague Myr
4x Plague Stinger (Blighted Agent)
4x Phyrexian Vatmother
4x Phyrexian Crusader
Sorcery (8)
4x Distortion Strike
4x Preordain
Instant (4)
2x Regress
2x Into the Roil
Sideboard (15)
3x Contaminated Ground(Evil Presence)
3x Doom Blade
3x Flashfreeze(Corupted Resolve)
3x Mana Leak
3x Marsh Casualties

I have idea's for a few swaps when NPH comes out.

I am going to switch to the cards in perenthisis.



I don't like the equipment here. I would rather have a Skittles over each of them. Regress should just be a standard creature removal like GFTT or Doom Blade or Dismember (depending on your local metagame). Contaminated Ground and Evil Presence are both terrible and probably aren't worth playing, even against Valakut. I'd replace Mana Leak with Corrupted Resolve, not Flashfreeze (the matchups you want counters, Flashfreeze is better than Leak).

Blighted Agent and Plague Stinger... I honestly don't know which is better. I'm inclined to say Stinger, since you have Distortion Strike, and flying is good on the defence for Inkmoth/Colonnade/Squadron Hawk. 
let me begin by saying im sorry if this comes off as pushy...its early, so i am without my eloquence...

if you are running a deck that is NOT UB infect CONTROL OR TEZZ, you are in the wrong place. it really is that simple. Cyrus made this thread to discuss ub infect control and tezz...it even says that in the name. there is already a thread for all the random infect brews that are not ub control or tezz. there is also a thread for non infect ub decks...it is frustrating to have to wade thru all of the off topic stuff to get to the real information on the archetype you came to look for, if there are a bunch of decks in the thread that are not of said archetype.

To me, there is no such thing as an evil personality trait or spiritual condition. There is only sin, concrete and deliberate action that is simply wrong. It is what happens when one goes against one's nature. It germinates in the shadow of risks untaken. It ripens in power exorcised. Beings like us can take risks no one else can, and exorcise power no one else has. We have the greatest capacity for sin, through action, or inaction.

57183108 wrote:
56783528 wrote:
Meh, not sure whether this is entirely accurate, at least for concept decks. Sometimes an unrefined idea cannot beat the top dogs at first, but with a few suggestions and heavy playtesting, they might get there. Islands' diamond in the rough lists are a good rebuttal to your statement.
Islands' decks are more gazing into the abyss of madness and madness staring back at you. With Manamorphose.
aranel, I REALLY like this deck build...I also do not have any JTMS's, so my current build looks similar to the above, but with a much more limited card pool (I only started collecting again last month).  While I also would go much more creature heavy (that's just my personal preference...), the META definitely calls for something to be done to get past JTMS, and Distortion Strike looks like a good answer.

My build looks a little like this:

Lands (24)




4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Evolving Wilds
5x Swamp
1x Island

Creatures (20)

4x Phyrexian Crusader
3x Necropede
3x Ichorclaw Myr
3x Plague Stinger
2x Corpse Cur
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2x Hand of the Praetors
1x Carnifex Demon


This is where I run into problems though...my personal card pool is weak...I have 3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas but not the suite of other spells like your build.  I would like to run Mortarpods and Contagion Clasps, but how many Clasps? I do think I'm going to shamelessly steal the Distortion Strike idea, if you don't mind.  I'm not THAT big a fan of Inquisition/Duress, and I'm not 100% sure the META calls for it, especially if you're staring at a turn 4 Tezz, with a Skithiryx behind him.  I like Carnifex Demon as the kill bomb.

I like some other high cost artifact bombs, Contagion Engine & Phyrexian Juggernaut but I feel they are slightly too costly.

I've played UB for years and years starting from Unlimited, so perhaps I just like the feel of this combination.  The deck, UB Tezz-Infect, definitely has that dark feel of Black splash Blue, and I do think it will have a LONG life in Standard.  Great posting.



Distortion Strike is just a forgotten card. So many people see it in my deck lists and say... cool, I forgot about that card.  

Duress/inquisition is preemptive play in my meta to remove an early removal or counter spell to give you the ability to play a little more agressively. It's also an answer to Caw Blade in terms of attacking their threats (Duress for Jace, the inquisitions for the blade and birds) - nothing is better than your opponent tapping out to play a turn 2 stoneforge mystic, so you know their sword is in their hand and duress/inquisitioning it. Often, people misplay by throwing duress out there turn one...

My deck isn't quite as synergystic as I really want. Example, if there isn't an artifact for Tezz to 5/5, his +1 is pretty pointless. Therefore, knowing not to play tezzeret is often just as important as knowing when to. Most who use this deck often rush Tezz out. Much like Boros, playing creatures slowly to draw out removal and avoid mass removal or 2-for-1 removal is often the best way to play. Forcing your opponent to day of judgment away your phyrexian crusader all by itself. 

The land fall of adventuring gear isn't my favourite either,... however, I have been toying with using piston sledge instead. It's instant gratification, is re-equipable in dire situations, and while not as reusable as the gear, it's a beast if unanswered, especially combined with distortion strike. 4 mana for +4/+1 and unblockable for two turns - which clearly turns any creature in to a 2-turn kill. 

The deck sometimes asks for more removal. It doesn't really have quite enough, especially in the realm of mass removal. Marsh Casualties does okay. Virulent Wound isn't something I am completely happy with. Again, Caw Blade doesn't like it, and goblins and Boros certainly don't like them - boros can't land fall past the damage. However, there are clear limitatations, and even though it doesn't pop a poison counter, disfigure/clasp and other removal may prove a better play in most match ups.

An under-rated card to have in the side board vs. infect mirror is Guarding Gamazoa.

It has other uses too. Removal light (green) opponents aren't fans of this either. Note: U/W players can make good use of this card as well. It's within Sun Titan's recovery range, it works well with Gideon, and it blocks Phyrexian Crusader indefinitely, even if you have to play a removed one from a mimic vat. 

In terms of your deck. Clasp is a good card and bounces in and out of my deck list continuously. Mortarpod is a really interesting card. It's cost always bothers me though. It pumps only the back end, but much like livewire lash, it turns all cards you play mid-game in to a threat to deal a poison directly. I have never been a fan of hand of praetors, but in decks similar to ours, it could avoid the instant removal which so often becomes its fate. I ran vatmother in that 4 mana spot since its just a lot harder to get rid of. 

Contagion Engine is a viable 1-of. If you get to 6 mana and you have put poison on your opponent, Engine is just a devastating card - much more of a bomb than almost any creature, and you wouldn't balk at paying 6 mana for the ability to put 2 poison on your opponent directly every turn. 
 

DCI Rules Advisor 06/15/2011

 

I never let my mind wander. It's too small to let it go off by itself

 

CCG achievements Still calls the games CCGs and not TCGs... bah, young 'uns!

Decipher games 2001 North American Continental Champion - Inaugural Hall of Fame Inductee - Responsible for killing Young Jedi CCG (really!)

Wizards of the Coast games Won my one and only Pokemon tournament using only Pikachu and Raichu in the deck - and declaring loudly "PEEE-KAH-CHUUUUU" -- true story. 

guys are ur thoughts about Phyrexian Metamorph i mean why play 4 crusaders when u can play 8 same thing for magnets, claps, engines, vatmothers?
 i see alot of potencial in this card  

please guys give me ur thoughts 
guys are ur thoughts about Phyrexian Metamorph i mean why play 4 crusaders when u can play 8 same thing for magnets, claps, engines, vatmothers?
 i see alot of potencial in this card  

please guys give me ur thoughts 



It's fine. 3 mana and 2 life for another crusader... decent. 3 mana and 2 life for another magnet or clasp? hmmm... not great. 

just like any clone, its got its uses.  

In a white infect build, it could be really nice. Duplicates an infect creature, and pumps from tempered steel.  

DCI Rules Advisor 06/15/2011

 

I never let my mind wander. It's too small to let it go off by itself

 

CCG achievements Still calls the games CCGs and not TCGs... bah, young 'uns!

Decipher games 2001 North American Continental Champion - Inaugural Hall of Fame Inductee - Responsible for killing Young Jedi CCG (really!)

Wizards of the Coast games Won my one and only Pokemon tournament using only Pikachu and Raichu in the deck - and declaring loudly "PEEE-KAH-CHUUUUU" -- true story. 

well the thing is that sometimes you wanna draw another magnet rather than a crusader maybe when fighting against caw blade or valakut and a titan is out there. 

of course if i have a magnet and a crusader at the same time i would copy the crusader but something u wanna have another magnet to get rip of the blocker so you can make ur killing hit.

 well when u wanna copy clasp is when u wanna double proliferate or engine when u wanna proliferate for 4 but thats overkill but the option still there!

and last you can copy someone sword of FaF or BaM or the new ****
"Tech":  Phyrexian Metamorph + Liquimetal Coating = copy anything in play. 
Photobucket My Trade Thread: The_Fringer's Mercantile Plane (Updated: 1/13/11)
"Tech":  Phyrexian Metamorph + Liquimetal Coating = copy anything in play. 



Add mimic vat and you've got some sneaky plays available...

Photobucket

I like the metamorph, but my biggest issue is that you have to remove somethign to fit him in. I'm not dropping JTMS, and Tezz is too good to get rid of. So the only things you can remove are the things you want to copy, since dropping any more utility is madness. So he struggles to find a place.

Here's an updated list I'm working on for Tezz-infect:

4 JTMS
4 Tezz
(8)

4 Necropede
4 Plague Myr
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skittles
(14)

4 Despise
2 Doom Blade
(6)

3 Tumble Magnet
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Brittle Effigy
(7)

4 Inkmoth
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Creeping Tar Pit
6 Swamp
4 Island
(25)

SIDEBOARD(15)
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Memoricide
2 Go For The Throat
3 Disfigure
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Corrupted Conscince
2 Inquisition of Kozilek



Currently, the clasp-tumbles package seems better than the double sword ratchet bomb package. I've still got on sword as it acts as Tezzeret number 5 in terms of making my two drop guys important, and about 5 pump effects for them is probably fine. There's a slightly higher artifact count. Whilst I would like to run Tezzeret's gambit, finding space is rather difficult.

The SB is a little rough, since we don't know what people will be playing, aside from caw-go, which is a good match up anyway.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
No comment on the newest build that got first at WWS Anaheim?

Necropede
Phyrexian Crusader
Plague Myr

Creatures [11]

Jace Beleren
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Planeswalkers [6]

Contagion Clasp
Contagion Engine
Doom Blade
Go for the Throat
Ichor Wellspring
Throne of Geth
Tumble Magnet

Spells [19]

Creeping Tar Pit
Darkslick Shores
Drowned Catacomb
Inkmoth Nexus
Island
Swamp

Lands [24]

SIDEBOARD


Black Sun's Zenith
Doom Blade
Go for the Throat
Into the Roil
Memoricide
Mimic Vat
Spell Pierce
Sword of Body and Mind
Tectonic Edge
Virulent Wound
 

I don't get the side deck but the main deck looks amazing.

 


Ichor wellspring is a bad card, sure you can pitch it to throne, but it makes for a terrible waste of two mana unless you have a way of getting rid of it. The lack of one drops, whether it's discard or preordain, seems like a big loss. Sure it looks like it has mroe power cards, but that's because it's missing some of the bread and butter it needs.


 


24 land and contagion engine isn't the best,  and without the ability to shuffle dead cards away or at least keep them out of your hand, that can be an issue. I think I'd like to see a fourth myr, 3-4 baby jace(or JTMS ideally), and some one drop utility like inquisition.


 


Contagion engine is something I've considered, perhaps replacing one of the skittles, but I'm still not sold.


 


As for the board, it's sketchy, I see him losing to RDW all day long.

Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/

 


Ichor wellspring is a bad card, sure you can pitch it to throne, but it makes for a terrible waste of two mana unless you have a way of getting rid of it. The lack of one drops, whether it's discard or preordain, seems like a big loss. Sure it looks like it has mroe power cards, but that's because it's missing some of the bread and butter it needs.


 


24 land and contagion engine isn't the best,  and without the ability to shuffle dead cards away or at least keep them out of your hand, that can be an issue. I think I'd like to see a fourth myr, 3-4 baby jace(or JTMS ideally), and some one drop utility like inquisition.


 


Contagion engine is something I've considered, perhaps replacing one of the skittles, but I'm still not sold.


 


As for the board, it's sketchy, I see him losing to RDW all day long.



This deck has already come in first so your critiques aren't as valid until you test it since it is doing something right. Btw baby jace tends to run better than JTMS since its faster for tempo. As you can see this isn't a control build.

Ichor wellspring is actually a good card in a deck running 4 tezzerets. Ideally you want to poison them but having a 5/5 that drew a card upon entering and leaving play is pretty good in my opinion anyway.  I don't feel you need the extra jaces when you have tezzeret and wellspring giving you extra cards. Now it isn't my build so I cant speak on behalf of him on certain card choices that even I am unsure of but ichor tends to be more useful than preordain or inquisition. I say this because instead of focusing on disrupting them it worries about its own game plan. I havent seen the build get mana screwed so I can't say preordain is needed. I agree side deck looks a bit bleh.
 
However personally I do want to add tezzeret's gambit to it for testing. And lastly Contagion engine why not?

 


Ichor wellspring is a bad card, sure you can pitch it to throne, but it makes for a terrible waste of two mana unless you have a way of getting rid of it. The lack of one drops, whether it's discard or preordain, seems like a big loss. Sure it looks like it has mroe power cards, but that's because it's missing some of the bread and butter it needs.


 


24 land and contagion engine isn't the best,  and without the ability to shuffle dead cards away or at least keep them out of your hand, that can be an issue. I think I'd like to see a fourth myr, 3-4 baby jace(or JTMS ideally), and some one drop utility like inquisition.


 


Contagion engine is something I've considered, perhaps replacing one of the skittles, but I'm still not sold.


 


As for the board, it's sketchy, I see him losing to RDW all day long.



This deck has already come in first so your critiques aren't as valid until you test it since it is doing something right.



I have a large problem with this statement.
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!

 


Ichor wellspring is a bad card, sure you can pitch it to throne, but it makes for a terrible waste of two mana unless you have a way of getting rid of it. The lack of one drops, whether it's discard or preordain, seems like a big loss. Sure it looks like it has mroe power cards, but that's because it's missing some of the bread and butter it needs.


 


24 land and contagion engine isn't the best,  and without the ability to shuffle dead cards away or at least keep them out of your hand, that can be an issue. I think I'd like to see a fourth myr, 3-4 baby jace(or JTMS ideally), and some one drop utility like inquisition.


 


Contagion engine is something I've considered, perhaps replacing one of the skittles, but I'm still not sold.


 


As for the board, it's sketchy, I see him losing to RDW all day long.



This deck has already come in first so your critiques aren't as valid until you test it since it is doing something right.



I have a large problem with this statement.


Why do you have a problem with that? I said that because his first statement was putting down a 4 of in a deck that came in first in a top 16 consisting of 5 Cawblades, 2 Kreds, 3 Rug controls, 1 Valakut, 1 U/W contol, 1 RDW and 1 Vampire. Not that he played all the other decks in the top 16 but for him to put down ichor wellspring without trying it in the build seems premature. Though I may just be sold on the main deck because i have been wanting to run Throne of Geth but didnt know how to include it myself.
I too have a problem with people saying things like it came first, so it's above critique. 

The side board actually makes some sense.  

Black Sun's Zenith
Doom Blade
Go for the Throat
Into the Roil
Memoricide
Mimic Vat
Spell Pierce
Sword of Body and Mind
Tectonic Edge
Virulent Wound

Zenith is obvious, as are the spare doom blades and go for the throats. I get the feeling that in mono black match up, he would side out the doom blades for a go for the throat and an into the roil. Or whatever. It's pretty standard. 

Memoricide must have been the magic bullet for every single match up he had. 

Sword of body and mind is there because of the pro-blue I would assume. Drop it on the Crusader and U/W has a real problem answering it outside of the obvious board wipe.

A single Tec edge seems ... optimistic at best. unblockable crusader and removing all the titans seems to be valakut answer

The wounds are plain and simple Boros/goblin/Caw blade hate. Using it to get a poison on a control player on turn 2 is reasonable. I use them for that reason also. I like them, but as I have discussed in talk of my list... they aren't fantastic... just handy.

In terms of the main deck...

Card advantage is obviously important in a combo deck. Drawing your tezz and a target for the tezz is a pretty important thing. It needs that extra speed. The ichor wellsprings are whimsical plays and certainly not necessarily the best card for the slot. You can certainly allow people to criticise that. 2 mana to eventually draw 2 cards is the same efficiency as baby jace but its yet another combo to be considered a better than average card. I think that was Cyrus' point. 

To be honest, the fact that the deck won implies to me it goes somewhat lucky. Not to say the initial list is a bad build... it's not. It's a very solid build. A build that would go 3-1 or 4-1 in most FNM tournaments.   This is a deck that would need ideal match ups and draws to win a major tournament. That happens all the time. Try building Naya Stoneforge decks (which has won a major tournament) and take it to your local FNM and see what happens. You'll win 1 out of 4 weeks if you are lucky. This deck looks like it may well have won through life loss as often as it won through poison. It likely controlled the field just enough with enough artifacts that tezzeret could easily ultimate for victory especially with 5/5 non infect artifacts wandering around.

Any tezzeret build has enough artifacts that throne of geth can earn a spot in any one of them. Why doesn't it? It's fighting for spots with any number of other cards. Whether thats hand manipulation, creature removal, more infect creatures. Throne of geth is a terrible card if you have no poison counters on your opponent. That deck has every chance of not having a single poison counter on the opponent making all the proliferation in the world irrelevent. 

 

DCI Rules Advisor 06/15/2011

 

I never let my mind wander. It's too small to let it go off by itself

 

CCG achievements Still calls the games CCGs and not TCGs... bah, young 'uns!

Decipher games 2001 North American Continental Champion - Inaugural Hall of Fame Inductee - Responsible for killing Young Jedi CCG (really!)

Wizards of the Coast games Won my one and only Pokemon tournament using only Pikachu and Raichu in the deck - and declaring loudly "PEEE-KAH-CHUUUUU" -- true story. 

I too have a problem with people saying things like it came first, so it's above critique. 

The side board actually makes some sense.  

Black Sun's Zenith
Doom Blade
Go for the Throat
Into the Roil
Memoricide
Mimic Vat
Spell Pierce
Sword of Body and Mind
Tectonic Edge
Virulent Wound

Zenith is obvious, as are the spare doom blades and go for the throats. I get the feeling that in mono black match up, he would side out the doom blades for a go for the throat and an into the roil. Or whatever. It's pretty standard. 

Memoricide must have been the magic bullet for every single match up he had. 

Sword of body and mind is there because of the pro-blue I would assume. Drop it on the Crusader and U/W has a real problem answering it outside of the obvious board wipe.

A single Tec edge seems ... optimistic at best. unblockable crusader and removing all the titans seems to be valakut answer

The wounds are plain and simple Boros/goblin/Caw blade hate. Using it to get a poison on a control player on turn 2 is reasonable. I use them for that reason also. I like them, but as I have discussed in talk of my list... they aren't fantastic... just handy.

In terms of the main deck...

Card advantage is obviously important in a combo deck. Drawing your tezz and a target for the tezz is a pretty important thing. It needs that extra speed. The ichor wellsprings are whimsical plays and certainly not necessarily the best card for the slot. You can certainly allow people to criticise that. 2 mana to eventually draw 2 cards is the same efficiency as baby jace but its yet another combo to be considered a better than average card. I think that was Cyrus' point. 

To be honest, the fact that the deck won implies to me it goes somewhat lucky. Not to say the initial list is a bad build... it's not. It's a very solid build. A build that would go 3-1 or 4-1 in most FNM tournaments.   This is a deck that would need ideal match ups and draws to win a major tournament. That happens all the time. Try building Naya Stoneforge decks (which has won a major tournament) and take it to your local FNM and see what happens. You'll win 1 out of 4 weeks if you are lucky. This deck looks like it may well have won through life loss as often as it won through poison. It likely controlled the field just enough with enough artifacts that tezzeret could easily ultimate for victory especially with 5/5 non infect artifacts wandering around.

Any tezzeret build has enough artifacts that throne of geth can earn a spot in any one of them. Why doesn't it? It's fighting for spots with any number of other cards. Whether thats hand manipulation, creature removal, more infect creatures. Throne of geth is a terrible card if you have no poison counters on your opponent. That deck has every chance of not having a single poison counter on the opponent making all the proliferation in the world irrelevent. 

 


I'm not saying its above critique there are things I am unsure about myself. However you just summed this deck winning up to luck. I disagree with it being luck if there is enough consistency in it. Yes he won games with and without infect. Multiple win conditions arent a bad thing when they arent taking away from the deck. Sure you can say throne of geth is bad but when coupled with infect, planeswalkers,  tumble magnets and ichor wellsprings it gets way better. Proliferation may not matter when they have no poison counters or it may give tumble magnet a counter and tezz and/or jace a counter. It may give you an extra draw a 5/5 and the chance to tap a creature so it can't block. It is an infect deck with more than just infect as a win condition. Also with 4 tezz you always hit them pretty much and then you almost always hit with its +1. Its the weirdest infect build I have seen so I wanted to pick it up before I said "ichor wellspring thats a draft only card wtf". You can say IoK and Preordain are better but tezzeret turns those "bad" artifacts into win conditions. I still want to see how Tezzeret's gambit performs in this deck essentially its throne and wellspring without the possibility of an extra win condition. 
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