Jace getting the banhammer?

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There's rumblings of Jace being considered for ban all over twitter.  he was in every top 8 deck (granted, 2 decks, but still) apparently there were something like 60 copies of him in top 16, (someone played Boros).

Overall he was the most played card amongst day 2 deck--even more than individual basic lands--at 379. 

Rather than discuss our opinions on whether he should be banned, let's look at the pros and cons. 
And the person who played Boros was running a sub-optimal build because it didn't splash blue for Jace.
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
There's rumblings of Jace being considered for ban all over twitter.  he was in every top 8 deck (granted, 2 decks, but still) apparently there were something like 60 copies of him in top 16, (someone played Boros).


How reliable is Twitter? I've never used it or been to the site. Also, which event was this, or is this pretty common for all events across the board? I think I recall recently seeing a Top 8 deck with blue and no Jace, just Little Jace, which doesn't really count as a Jace anymore.

I'm not very happy about what I payed for him because I simply don't have a control deck. The only place where it can possibly go is in a deck that doesn't want a four mana spell with only 23 lands. Anyway, he is all over the place, but what would really change if he went away? People will just run the other Jace, and the decks would largely (mostly) stay looking something like they currently look. I could be wrong about that, though.

Overall he was the most played card amongst day 2 deck--even more than individual basic lands--at 379.


Jace obsoletes basic lands. On a serious note, though, this is both surprising and unsurprising. It's surprising in that that's a lot of Jaces. It's unsurprising because decks with Jace need a mana base of mostly nonbasic lands. 

Outside of Monocolour decks don't people just fill in with basics once they add all their real lands and need to get to a specified number of lands? That's what I do, but that could be a shameful practice, somebody get back to me on that one.  

Rather than discuss our opinions on whether he should be banned, let's look at the pros and cons. 


I don't know. I don't play with him much, but I seem to be in a bigger minority than I had previously thought. Again, though, even though it's hardly a Jace anymore, people will fill in with Lesser Jace and keep playing.
Jace, really, just compliments a strategy. In and of itself, it is not part of the strategy, rather an enabler like no other. Ever. In the world. I don't think the meta would change too noticeably though.

I don't want him to go. I find it quite interesting to have a card around that everyone is thinking about and asking can they beat it. Again, it's not like he has anything to do with strategy.

On the flip side, he's a utility card, so at the very least it shouldn't be mythic. They should have made it an enchantment or something and called it Jace's [something].

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And the person who played Boros was running a sub-optimal build because it didn't splash blue for Jace.



I LOL'd. Tough one to explain at an IT shop.

Jace is getting a little excessive in presence... and mght be format bending. His unsummon was just too good.... the other 3 abilities were fine. Decks running jace would have a pretty different composition without his access to Unsummon to protect himself.

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Jace is getting a little excessive in presence... and mght be format bending. His unsummon was just too good.... the other 3 abilities were fine. Decks running jace would have a pretty different composition without his access to Unsummon to protect himself.



And people never even bothered with Unsummon. Slap it on Jace, and all of a sudden it's fantastic. That's always been interesting to me.

I don't know if they could, or should, do this, but I think I recall something happening in YuGiOh where you could use a card, but not all of it's functionality. Is that a possibility here?

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58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
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97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
Well people used Capsize, Tradewind Riders, and Evacuation so there is precedent of bounce effects in the quantity of >1 being useful.

I guess to answer Rooster's question... I think if Jace was banned the format would break wide open within the next 7 days and valakut would sift back to the top. Then the only question is whether or not the mystic+sword package would be strong enough to hold Tier 1 play without Jace to help.

I do think there'd be a lot more elbow room for different decks to push their way up. Which would be really healthy instead of spending another summer dealing with JTMS.

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Banning a card before it rotates from Standard is admitting to a very large error on the part of the game's developers.  That could be a significant pro, but it would require that lessons be learned.  That won't happen.  Wizard's approach to the game won't change for the better, and the players won't take a more active role in shaping the game we play. 

Therefore, the greatest positive that can happen is that Jace will be gone - and for many that will be a very large negative.  The downsides will include angry people who invested heavily in the card only to see it be made worthless.  However, see paragraph 1.
Attitude reflects leadership. Vindicated! * HawkBlade is aggro/control! * Post-ban HawkBlade! * Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good! * End-of-Lorwyn TurboFog! ‘Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.’ – André Gide '...but if you're repeating yourself in an online forum, chances are you're just feeding a troll.' - Rat Bastardsen
Granted I haven't played Standard for very long so I'm sure my assessment could be a far cry from the truth, but JTMS has already made it 75% of the way through its Standard career.  I doubt they are going to wait this long before banning it.

I think if it were to be banned, it would have happened already.

Therefore, the greatest positive that can happen is that Jace will be gone - and for many that will be a very large negative.  The downsides will include angry people who invested heavily in the card only to see it be made worthless.  However, see paragraph 1.



I don't think Standard is the only driver for the price of Jace (though it's probably a significant portion). People will still hold on to them for other formats, and they will still become increasingly unavailable because Casuals have no idea that you are allowed to trade Planeswalker cards.

If something happens along the lines of banning, I wonder if that would go over to Extended as well.

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58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.


Overall he was the most played card amongst day 2 deck--even more than individual basic lands--at 379.


Jace obsoletes basic lands. On a serious note, though, this is both surprising and unsurprising. It's surprising in that that's a lot of Jaces. It's unsurprising because decks with Jace need a mana base of mostly nonbasic lands. 

Outside of Monocolour decks don't people just fill in with basics once they add all their real lands and need to get to a specified number of lands? That's what I do, but that could be a shameful practice, somebody get back to me on that one.  


Usually basics have more to do with fetches, nowadays.  tec edge + M11 + WWK + Scars = 16 in a 2 color deck, 28 in a 3 color deck.  So if you want the m11 lands to be any good you ahev to run basics, then fetches demand them, too.

My only point was that jace was the number 1 guy.  We have 4-5 legitimate red decks yet Jace was there more than Bolt.

Financial situations aside, I think the pros would be slightly more diverse blue decks, but the con is negating so many current blue strategies.  Rug becomes a non-deck.  Caw Blade would probably survive but be weaker, and Sun Titan UW control would almost certainly become the best UW deck--perhaps even proliferate lists.  UB contorl would be gone.  

Then you have the shifts due to shifts.  Caw blade tanking means Kut gets better and that negates every strategy with vengevine and most RDW and Boros decks.  The fallout could well go beyond just blue decks. 
It would indeed be a pivotal shift in the current meta.

The thought is pretty exciting, really.

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I think the banning of jace will bring a nice wind of change into the meta. You will see a different approach to the control strategy other than 'splash blue, play jace'. You will probably see the rise of MBC (would be nice, eh, niche?), U/W or even pyromancer ascension again.

What are the cons? A lot of angry vendors who right now are buying jace for $80 apiece and angry players who are buying them for $100+.

I have to admit though I'm getting tired of watching caw blade after cawblade after caw blade as featured match on GGlive.
My guess is the opposite is true. WotC will reprint Jace 2.0 in M12 and he'll stick around for another year+.
My guess is the opposite is true. WotC will reprint Jace 2.0 in M12 and he'll stick around for another year+.



If this is true than I'll definitely quit competitive magic until they realize their mistake and rotate him out.
My guess is the opposite is true. WotC will reprint Jace 2.0 in M12 and he'll stick around for another year+.



This.
In Legacy, Blue is the best color. Let's punish blue, in Modern. And they listened!
I think to ban Jace after a single tournament would be knee jerk. While Jace and Caw-Go are definitely overrepresented (because they are the best card and best deck) , the string of SCG results also show that they don't keep all other decks out. Given how many people were playing Caw and Rug in Texas, the Top 8 is not all that strange.

That said, if they banned Jace I think the format would shift to RPS with Valakut, W/x Control, and red-based Aggro. I think the other decks would be positioned slightly worse than they are now, but not by a huge amount.

I too have a feeling they're going to reprint Jace 2 in M12.
Also, people keep saying that Jace shouldn't be mythic because he's utility and they said they wouldn't do that.

What the hell does that even mean? What is 'utility'? What did Maro mean by utility? Why is Jace utility?

Because it seems to me that there is no card MORE suitable to be mythic than Jace. I find it very hard to believe any other rarity should be appropriate.
Also, people keep saying that Jace shouldn't be mythic because he's utility and they said they wouldn't do that. What the hell does that even mean? What is 'utility'? What did Maro mean by utility? Why is Jace utility? Because it seems to me that there is no card MORE suitable to be mythic than Jace. I find it very hard to believe any other rarity should be appropriate.


We had this discussion a while ago here on the boards.

The basic argument is that card draw is utility (i.e. it doesn't win you the game but allows your other cards to win or solves a problem, e.g. removal).  Since Jace only does utility stuff (aside from his mostly irrelevant ultimate) he shouldn't be mythic, or since he's a walker, should never have been at all.  Not saying I agree, but that's the basic argument. 
Doesn't that definition imply no planeswalker should be mythic? Garruk untaps lands and pumps creatures. Liliana discards and tutors. Chandra removes creatures and Chandra 2 draws cards, venser does nothing but utility.

Unless what people mean is only the terrible 8 mana Timmy fatties should be Mythic, so then they don't have to pay as much.

Sounds like assuming the conclusion no matter how you slice it.
Here's an interesting perspective. This is Forscythe's article on why they banned skullclamp.

www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

Some interesting things to note.

-Forscythe specifically mentions the raw number of clamps that were seen in the top 8 of a specific event.

Let's talk about Standard first. Skullclamp was banned in Standard, frankly, because it was everywhere. Every competitive deck either had four in the main deck, had four in the sideboard, or was built to try and defend against it. And there were a lot more successful decks in the first two categories than in the third. Such representation is completely unhealthy for the format. Your deck has to either have Skullclamps, or have Skullclamp in its crosshairs—a definitive case of a card “warping the metagame.”

Look, for example, at the Top 8 decks from Ohio Valley Regionals. Or at those from the more recent German Nationals. Combined, those 16 decks contained 58 out of a possible 64 Skullclamps. Never in my memory have I ever seen a card show up in those numbers.



Seems kinda interesting that Jace has shown up in an even higher percentage, despite his casting cost restrictions and archetype restrictions.


-Forscythe specifically mentions "format warping" in the sense that top decks were altering their card choices just to accomodate skullclamp. This is the sticky issue, because you can't really make the argument that UB or RUG was even a competitive deck without Jace. Tooth & Nail and Big Red were indeed viable decks, though Tooth & Nail quickly became Elf & Nail just to make use of clamp. Kibler's recent success using baby jace in his UB infect deck may actually be the most damning in terms of whether Big Jace deserves the ban-hammer. Kibler cited the need to get Jace out first as the reason for playing only little jace in his 75.


-Forscythe also mentions attempts by R&D to correct the problem in Kamigawa block development, but opting instead to simply ban the card.


So here's the real question - Was R&D able to correct the jace problem (which is really the 'walker problem) with stuff like Hex parasite and Surgical Extraction?


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Some more thoughts

- It took roughly a month of extreme skullclamp action before WotC announced the banning. But I think there's a longer "leash" on jace TMS, primarily because he's A) More expensive, B) Not colorless, and C) is potentially gone from standard in 7 months.

That last point is extremely weak, but don't be naieve enough to think that the bean counters at Hasbro aren't doing the math on how many players they would lose based on whether or not Jace get's banned. The reality is that you lose players either way. Ban Jace, and you lose a chunk of players that are upset at seeing a heavy investment go to waste. Don't ban jace, and you run the risk of players leaving standard because they don't percieve being able to have a competitive deck without a $400 investment.

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So here's the real question - Was R&D able to correct the jace problem (which is really the 'walker problem) with stuff like Hex parasite and Surgical Extraction?




Hex Parasite in particular really looks like an attempt to provide an answer to planeswalkers.  But they started this standard by allowing Oblivion Ring and Maelstrom Pulse and Pithing Needle to rotate without any functional replacements.  Do we have to conclude that they didn't see planeswalkers as a problem?  Is there any strong evidence that they see them as a problem now?  Thinking in these terms, a Jace ban seems extremely unlikely. 
Attitude reflects leadership. Vindicated! * HawkBlade is aggro/control! * Post-ban HawkBlade! * Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good! * End-of-Lorwyn TurboFog! ‘Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.’ – André Gide '...but if you're repeating yourself in an online forum, chances are you're just feeding a troll.' - Rat Bastardsen
ya know... i get it... they spend so much time making cards with such wow factors, making cards so over the top powerful.... the whole format is build around ridiculous power cards, its been like that now for a few years, just getting more so as time goes on...

however, we're definitely at or getting at a threshold where if one of these many power creeps gets a little too powerful above the other powerful things... then the whole format craps on itself and standard is just a big mess over overpowered crap...

this is sorta where i feel like.  yea jace is ridiculously powerful.... and anyone who printed it like that and didn't think that is an idiot.  banning him would just be an insult though to anyone who has invested in them.  i would literally be bankrupt as far as my magic cards go, that would be a huge douche move to ban him.

furthermore, why would they ban him when a new set is about to come out?

besides... its twitter, who the hell would believe some twit speculation?  i sure as hell don't.

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ya know... i get it... they spend so much time making cards with such wow factors, making cards so over the top powerful.... the whole format is build around ridiculous power cards, its been like that now for a few years, just getting more so as time goes on...

however, we're definitely at or getting at a threshold where if one of these many power creeps gets a little too powerful above the other powerful things... then the whole format craps on itself and standard is just a big mess over overpowered crap...

this is sorta where i feel like.  yea jace is ridiculously powerful.... and anyone who printed it like that and didn't think that is an idiot.  banning him would just be an insult though to anyone who has invested in them.  i would literally be bankrupt as far as my magic cards go, that would be a huge douche move to ban him.

furthermore, why would they ban him when a new set is about to come out?

besides... its twitter, who the hell would believe some twit speculation?  i sure as hell don't.



Haha BF, you really need to read the article I linked.

-R&D is of the opinion that they would rather have a skullcamp situation instead of a Homelands situation, i.e. they would rather go to far instead of not going far enough. So even if jace gets banned, they sure as hell aren't sorry for making a powerful magic card. The beauty of the skullclamp ban was that it didn't have a huge financial impact, and that's certainly not the case for Jace.

- R&D banned skullclamp just before a new set came out, precisely because they knew they weren't able to print a decent answer for clamp. This is the biggest reason why I think Jace won't be banned just yet. Let me explain - printing an answer for something like skullclamp is difficult, because A) You're printing an answer card for a 1-drop, and B) You're printing an answer for equipment, which was at that point a brand-new card sub-type. Planeswalkers have yet to see a single hate card that specifically mentions planeswalkers. Sure, there's maelstrom pulse and vampire hexmage, but there is not a crush variant that works only on planeswalkers. This actually opens up the design space for hate cards for walkers, and it's a big reason why we are seeing something like Hex parasite. Hex Parasite is a crash test dummy. He's the 1st attempt at specific, universal 'walker hate (hexmage is far from universal). I think it's unfortunate that he was printed as a creature, but I can see why R&D doesn't want to print a 'walker hate card that can carry over into every format quite yet.

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In the previous post "universal" must mean "playable in every color".

Attitude reflects leadership. Vindicated! * HawkBlade is aggro/control! * Post-ban HawkBlade! * Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good! * End-of-Lorwyn TurboFog! ‘Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.’ – André Gide '...but if you're repeating yourself in an online forum, chances are you're just feeding a troll.' - Rat Bastardsen

In the previous post "universal" must mean "playable in every color".




Exactly. Pulse forced GB, O-ring forced W, etc. There are plenty of color-specific 'walker hate cards out there, but hex parasite is both the fastest and the easiest to play, albeit the easiest to answer as well.

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yea, i said i hadn't read anything.

they should just print needle again and make trinket mage playable finally.  it just doesn't seem to make sense them not printing it again.  it was so great, so universal, so awesome.

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I'm not the one who calls bans around. I've seen Jitte, I've seen Dark Confidant (lol, but it was true), I've seen entire Faeries, entire Jund... Etc.

Jace IS broken. Game ARE degenerated into "Get Jace out or Stop Jace". If you can afford Jaces, there's no reason to go with any other deck right now. None. Last time a card had such an impact, it was Skullclamp, and it was an artifact whom all colors could use. Jace, while limited to a color, is almost splashed (In RUG, for example. 4 Leaks, 4 Ordains, 4 Jaces don't make a blue deck). There isn't a blue deck out there that doesn't use Jace and there isn't a non-Jace deck out there without a plan to combat Jace.

It doesn't enable a certain strategy -just like Skullclamp before him. Both are just "really powerful cards". T8 is almost entirely Jace. 

Really, if we had a ban now, we'd have a much better format, not with Kut on top but Boros, Vampires being legit strategies again, UB control being a real control deck, mid-range flourishing, in short, we'd have a combo deck, we'd have mid-range, we'd have control, we'd have aggro. Right now, it's Kut over all and Jace over Kut. That's not a fun meta.

Kut is hatable. Jace is not. It comboes with itself (Bounces creatures to protect itself, draws cards to gin board, fateseals to win game). It's a one-card win condition that even disables stuff like Hexmage, because it can just stop you from drawing it at all. 

Admit it, Jace isn't fun to play with or against, Jace decks are basically "Jace ward decks", with Lotus Cobra RUG taking the mana route and Caw taking fliers / mana with SoFaF route to deal with other Jaces.

It doesn't enable a strategy, it's a dominant card. Those two are different. I for one would enjoy a Jaceless format to have variety of decks for a nice Nationals season. Not so much with Jace. 
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I thought Valakut was holding down Midrange more than Jace.
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
Cons: -Friends who have a playset bitching about not being able to play Jace
Pros: +Dumb Asses who shelled out $400+ on a set of Jace get screwed
+Format becomes a struggle between Caw-noun and Valakut, allowing rogue decks one less card to have to dedicate board space to hating
+No more getting milled by a player with zero offensive capabilities (I consider traditional mill cards to be offensive in nature)
jace isn't geting banned, so let's not overreact.  if it was going to happen, it would have already.

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I don't feel like Jace is broken. There are lots of decks with legitimate strategies that beat Jace. He's also an easy card to misplay. I think he makes blue strong and I'm glad to see blue decks (though I don't play the colour myself) in T8. I think seeing Jace decks dominate pro tour T8s shows that pros like playing blue and that the format is still in flux, as it always is. Jace was still around during Worlds and before where Valakut was the boogeyman and Jace decks still died to t4 titan (which they still do). I also feel like playing a Jace isn't the be-all and end-all. UB Control sticking a Jace and beginning to fateseal is increasing their chances to draw a Grave Dad and kill you, but more often than not they're just drawing Preordains and removal. There are no tutors in the format really beyond Liliana and she's well known as relatively bad. I don't know. I don't like the practice of banning cards and I feel as though Wizards would have done it already if they were going to, and I also feel like Jace isn't format warping in the sense that Skullclamp was. Skullclamp was like, you're gonna play a creature deck because of Skullclamp. This format is like, you can play a control deck, and it'll have 4 Jace, and you can play a creature deck with lots of outs to Jace. Lightning Bolt is in the format because of Jace, and I think WoTC telling us they weren't reprinting Bolt is good evidence that Jace isn't being reprinted either.


besides... its twitter, who the hell would believe some twit speculation?  i sure as hell don't.


Maro specifically tweeted that they were discussing it.  So believe it or not...but it's legit.
The primary problem with Jace is that he completely dominates one of the most important CMC slots in Magic... 4-drops, especially over the last few years, have been the "gold standard" by which the rest of the game is judged. At this point, I see Standard as having 4 CMC spots of utmost importance: 1, 2, 4, 6. Now let's break those down:

1: IoK, Duress, SP, Bolt, Oust, etc
2: Squawks, Stone, GFTT/Blade, Arc Trail, Explore, etc
3: ??? - Traditionally this is the spot of Lords, utility removal, equipment, or multiple-card plays, CITP land and 2-drop, or the "best" 3-drops (RWM, Pulse, Thrinax), etc
4: Jace, DoJ (barely), Heros (Oxid almost exclusively at present), Koth, Garruk, Tezz
5: Precursor, Gideon (previously BSA)
6: Titans (previously DBM, etc)

So, why does Jace mess this all up? Simply put, he nullifies half the plays that most of the decks in the format make before turn 4. Goblins and Vampires cannot create enough presence by t3/t4. RDW is trash in comparison to most current decks. Green aggro is crap. "Fish" decks of any kind are running Jace. The 4-drop spot revolves around Jace and ALL THE ANSWERS ARE GONE. While I like what WotC is doing for the most part, I do NOT understand them allowing almost every answer to rotate simultaneously.

Furthermore, a few other people have already noted that his Unsummon was massively underrated at release. I mean, before you had to be 5+ mana to get a removal effect as a PW. But thinking "oh, it's only temporary," R&D failed to realize that it's still too good on a Brainstorm-every-turn Walker.

And I still have no idea if he'll be reprinted or banned. The card warps the format, sure, but every format has a card that does that. The amazing thing about Jace is that he's just good enough to see extensive play in EVERY format but not good enough to totally break any format. 

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I don't feel like Jace is broken. There are lots of decks with legitimate strategies that beat Jace. He's also an easy card to misplay. I think he makes blue strong and I'm glad to see blue decks (though I don't play the colour myself) in T8. I think seeing Jace decks dominate pro tour T8s shows that pros like playing blue and that the format is still in flux, as it always is. Jace was still around during Worlds and before where Valakut was the boogeyman and Jace decks still died to t4 titan (which they still do). I also feel like playing a Jace isn't the be-all and end-all. UB Control sticking a Jace and beginning to fateseal is increasing their chances to draw a Grave Dad and kill you, but more often than not they're just drawing Preordains and removal. There are no tutors in the format really beyond Liliana and she's well known as relatively bad. I don't know. I don't like the practice of banning cards and I feel as though Wizards would have done it already if they were going to, and I also feel like Jace isn't format warping in the sense that Skullclamp was. Skullclamp was like, you're gonna play a creature deck because of Skullclamp. This format is like, you can play a control deck, and it'll have 4 Jace, and you can play a creature deck with lots of outs to Jace. Lightning Bolt is in the format because of Jace, and I think WoTC telling us they weren't reprinting Bolt is good evidence that Jace isn't being reprinted either.



TLDR, just read the first few sentences.

Did you just present an argument that a (potentially)overpowered card is not really overpowered because people could easily misplay him??

I also just checked twitter and rooster is right, MaRo is discussing about banning jace.

This is a pretty big deal. 


They designed the card, it went through development and all vetting processes, and they went ahead and printed it. 

Players were asking for better counter spells, which are usually solid blue commons... and they handed us a $100 mythic rare.


Then they allowed Pithing Needle and Oblivion Ring and Maelstrom Pulse to rotate without any replacements.


And now they're considering banning Jace, a move that will potentially cost many Magic players hundreds of dollars?

Are they even trying to spin this?  Taking any responsibility for their mind-boggling stupidity? 

...

We haven't seen many Infect cards from the next set.  But we've been promised that if we hate Infect, we'll only hate it more as the 2nd and 3rd sets are released.  And the guy who shoved Infect down everyone's throats is busy trying to piss the player base off for entirely seperate reasons?  When are they going to put a leash on this guy?

Attitude reflects leadership. Vindicated! * HawkBlade is aggro/control! * Post-ban HawkBlade! * Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good! * End-of-Lorwyn TurboFog! ‘Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.’ – André Gide '...but if you're repeating yourself in an online forum, chances are you're just feeding a troll.' - Rat Bastardsen

How exactly does banning work?  Do they ban him from Standard only or Extended?  I'm not sure how the blocks rotate I've never stuck around during a rotation.

well if they screw up that badly... you can all be sure you'll be hearing from me... i'd actually probably quit at that point because all my money cards would be immediately gone.... wow, would i be pissed.

maro, you've screwed up enough, don't screw up some more....

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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TLDR, just read the first few sentences.

Did you just present an argument that a (potentially)overpowered card is not really overpowered because people could easily misplay him??

I also just checked twitter and rooster is right, MaRo is discussing about banning jace.




TLDR, just read the first few words. Yes, I presented an argument. I was too lazy to read the rest of your question, sorry dude. 
well if they screw up that badly... you can all be sure you'll be hearing from me... i'd actually probably quit at that point because all my money cards would be immediately gone.... wow, would i be pissed.

maro, you've screwed up enough, don't screw up some more....



Well that's the scary part - is there any sign that he thinks that he's screwed up very much at all, ever?  Who has told him that he has? 

The Bitterblossom confession was a bit twisted.  The Liquimetal Coating concerns are warped.  The state-of-the-games never reveal any regrets.  He interviews himself, and calls it his toughest interview!

I haven't seen any sign that Wizards sees any need to put a leash on him, or any sign that players have let him know we're sick of his crap.  He's got forward momentum, and no sign of anyone working the brakes.  If the player base reacts to a Jace banning in a way that hurts Wizards - a big if - the chances of him screwing something else up should decrease.  For the moment, the chances of the next fiasco are still on the rise.
Attitude reflects leadership. Vindicated! * HawkBlade is aggro/control! * Post-ban HawkBlade! * Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good! * End-of-Lorwyn TurboFog! ‘Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.’ – André Gide '...but if you're repeating yourself in an online forum, chances are you're just feeding a troll.' - Rat Bastardsen
overall you guys just don't get it, jace IS broken.  it is enough to rn around in VINTAGE!!! and since that is where old really really powqerful caqrds go to die, typically if you can get away with playing something there of 4 cost, then yu know it has to be THAT awesome to be worth it.  I know for a fact that people rarely even play 3 costing things in eternal formats because it isn't worth it, so why is it that jace is????  if it was ANY other card, it would normally be to expensive for what it does, however this is basically going out of the way to play a card that costs more.  why do you ask: IT IS BECAUSE IT IS SO GOOD IT ACTUALLY IS WORTH WARPING TO FORMAT TO FIT IT IN!!!

now if jace is easily on par with all of the stuff in eternal formats, then it is DEFINITELY way strong in this one, because it is powerful enough to put up a very very good fight against the best cards EVER MADE! 

Finally all anwsers to jace suck, end of discussion.  the ONLY reason why black is even being played now is because of vampire hexmage, which is probably the best anwser to jace, as well as it kills titans off, with kill spells and the like.  if jace gets reprinted in m12 then you may as well completely kiss goodbye to one of the colors of magic, because of the fact that the main reason why black is even being played is gone with nothing to replace that reason in that color.
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
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63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]