Rogue out of turn sneak attack question

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Ok this question indirectly applies to the title of the thread, but when you ready an action and then that action triggers, is it still considered your turn or rather the same turn as you readied said action?
Surely it's... well, whatever turn it actually is.

And even if it wasn't, odds are you haven't used up your Sneak Attack for your turn anyhow. You could only have done so if you spent an action point, or had some way of attacking as a minor.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Surely it's... well, whatever turn it actually is.

And even if it wasn't, odds are you haven't used up your Sneak Attack for your turn anyhow. You could only have done so if you spent an action point, or had some way of attacking as a minor.


You mean like:


...?

Setting up a readied action is a standard action; using a readied action is an immediate reaction (to the trigger defined when you set it up).  Thus, it's not your turn when you use the readied action, it's the triggering creature's turn.

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

If you start doing this your DM can, and probably will, respond by readying attacks for your Defender's turn, negating his mark punishment and allowing him to run away from the Defender easily and beat your squishies into the ground. Your DM has a much larger benefit from readied action shenenigans then players do. Also it slows down combat, complicates inititiave, and makes you sterile.

I made up that last one, but seriously allowed by the rules and a good idea are not always the same thing.
Yeah tichrimo that's exactly my point, why not make a rogue who can deal sneak attack damage for 4 consecutive turns with minor actions and convert each of those standard actions over to ready actions with meaningless triggers to double up your sneak attack damage every round? You have a ranger ally, who also will undoubtably have a very high intitiative as well, If he beats you in initiative he delays a moment until you go. Rogue moves into room attacks enemy that has not yet gone with low slash with combat advantage and readies sly flourish for when the ranger moves into a flank. The rogues initiative would then still be higher then the rangers correct? Like his RA would then reset his initiative from where ever it was to just above the ranger and all following RA's could be triggered on ranger's attacks which would continously reset the rogues inititiative to just above the rangers allowing for double sneak attack until you run out of minor action attacks correct? Even if the the RA reset your intiative to just below the rangers as long as the ranger had a higher initiative mod then the next thing to go he could just re-delay until right after rogue and continue the chain, so i guess that really wouldn't matter.
I disagree alcestis about everything other than the fact that it would probably make you sterile, above example would go very smoothly because it would be like you turn didnt really end and the initiative order would not even change, and if the mobs want to trade standard actions to move away from a defender they can do that on their own turns because defenders only get one AoO a turn anyway. Although yes a ranged mob could ready to attack on defenders turn and avoid AoO and mark punishment, but I don't think thats 100% better then rogues getting near double damage. Also this is most definitely high cheese to the max, but that doesn't make it a bad idea, I was just trying to min max in a creative way I'm not saying I'd ever bring a char like this to a table.
If you were to bust this out in actual play, the DM would likely retaliate in kind, plus some (as Alcestis kindly noted). 

Don't forget the DM's arsenal also includes dazing and stunning monsters (to remove your rogue's ability to use immediate actions) and forced movement (to get either the rogue and/or his flanking buddy out of position)...  


Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

I disagree alcestis about everything other than the fact that it would probably make you sterile, above example would go very smoothly because it would be like you turn didnt really end and the initiative order would not even change, and if the mobs want to trade standard actions to move away from a defender they can do that on their own turns because defenders only get one AoO a turn anyway. Although yes a ranged mob could ready to attack on defenders turn and avoid AoO and mark punishment, but I don't think thats 100% better then rogues getting near double damage. Also this is most definitely high cheese to the max, but that doesn't make it a bad idea, I was just trying to min max in a creative way I'm not saying I'd ever bring a char like this to a table.

Readied actions going off changes init order.
Charge.
Each monster gets it's own turn.
Ranged monsters.
Instant death from all monsters readying an attack on the same PC.

Really. It is clear you don't understand how powerful a DM can make this. I could easily kill any average PC in one round, kill them to dead not just to negative, with a level+2 encounter with errata'd damage expressions with zero possible punishment, reprecussions, or chances to save the PC. Team monster is completely coordinated in the DM's head, this is immensely more powerful for him.  If you do it, the DM will, and you will die.

This isn't the first time this idea has come up. There are dozens of (imo hilarious) stories of DMs playing the readied action game because their players did. Result: dead PC, frequent TPKs. It is not a good idea.
I still don't see how what you guys are saying has anything to do with what I'm trying to point out. If the DM wanted to he could send a level 30 dragon at a group of level 1 chars too and kill them all right then and there? The point isn't that this should be used at a table as I've already said, and yes I did start this thread in the rules Q and A because I didnt know if this could work, but what I'm trying to get at now is, has this been done before? Have people tried building nova's around this, can this idea work to build a dpr king or improve on an existing one, what's with all the negativity haha I'm just trying to bounce around some ideas here.


People have done it. In real games. That is what I'm telling you. The result was the DM also did it. He took standard encounters that, normally, the party could win and using readied action abuse the party died.
This is why people don't do it. And theoretical optimizers only engage in builds that, eventually, have a concept that can be practically optimized. This can't, because it inevitably results in party death.

And no, it wouldn't increase the Thief DPR king build. It already gets an out of turn attack.
You are exceptionally rude and pretty good and making elitest patronizing remarks alcestis, congratz bro, again all I was trying to do was throw some stuff around no idea why you have to be so fierce about what ever you are saying. And what kind of DM just kills off a party because they found a break point in the rules? A lame incompetent one with no imagination and no ability to cook up a house rule or three to get what ever the players are doing back to a reasonable medium. Regardless this has been totally derailed so I'll be moving on now.
You are exceptionally rude and pretty good and making elitest patronizing remarks alcestis, congratz bro, again all I was trying to do was throw some stuff around no idea why you have to be so fierce about what ever you are saying. And what kind of DM just kills off a party because they found a break point in the rules? A lame incompetent one with no imagination and no ability to cook up a house rule or three to get what ever the players are doing back to a reasonable medium. Regardless this has been totally derailed so I'll be moving on now.

/eyeroll.

"Hey guys I have this idea"
"Been done, dozens of times, ends up being a bad idea."
"No really...."
"Really, it is a bad idea. Hundreds of people have thought of it. All of them said it worked out badly."
"You're mean."
Yeah tichrimo that's exactly my point, why not make a rogue who can deal sneak attack damage for 4 consecutive turns with minor actions and convert each of those standard actions over to ready actions with meaningless triggers to double up your sneak attack damage every round?



Maybe I'm missing something.  Can anyone explain how you could deal sneak attack damage for four consecutive turns?  I know you could do it once on your own turn and I can could then see using a standard to ready another action for next turn ... but after that I don't see how it works.  Please enlighten me.  

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Only way is OAs or granted attacks.  One SA on your turn, one SA during your IA.  Any more than two is OAs or granted attacks.

I think what he meant is doing SA damage with minor actions on four consecutive rogue's turns.  So that for four rounds you're getting SA 2/round just by minor action attack + IA readied attack.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I think what he meant is doing SA damage with minor actions on four consecutive rogue's turns.  So that for four rounds you're getting SA 2/round just by minor action attack + IA readied attack.



Okay, I can see that.  Thanks for clarifying.  Hell, I've had rogues do that in my campaigns and I didn't feel it was cheesy or grounds for retaliation above and beyond what the monsters normally do.  IMO, why shouldn't a rogue try to make as many of his attacks as possible deal sneak attack damage?  YMMV.

My wife, as a rogue, frequently uses the minor action sneak attack/delayed standard action sneak attack tactic in a campaign I play in that another guy DM's for and that DM has never expressed any problems with this tactic.  He has plenty of ways of challenging us without punishing clever tactics.  Then again, I see it as clever tactics, you might see it as cheese.  I guess the difference is whether or not you think it gives the rogue some kind of unfair advantage.  I don't think it does.  
 
As a DM, I frequently have monsters pull crap like this on Defenders or anyone else who puts themselves in a bad tactical position.  Four monsters (or even three using the wheel of death) move into flanking with each other, take a standard attack and a minor attack, doing extra damage while having combat advantage (kobolds, for example).  But I do it mainly to scare the hell out of the party, not to intentionally try to wipe them.  No DM I've ever seen has a problem with monsters coordinating their attacks like this in one turn - it's standard procedure.  The alternative is to make every monster take its own turn, then you have to keep track of which monster delayed what action and when.  No one wants to do that.

It's fun to take a PC from full HP to 1 or 2 above Dying in one turn - makes them sweat a little and makes the Leaders work a little harder.  Even taking them to Dying is fun as long as I don't pull coup de graces on them and there's a Leader in the party to help.  I just do it to make them get a thrill from a very dangerous combat.  I almost never intentionally try to kill a PC and I always give them a chance to get raised if it happens - I just want to make them sweat and have fun!

But yeah, if a DM wanted to, they could retaliate in this fashion and ravage the PCs one at a time.  I've just never felt the need to do that yet.  I don't really think the OP's idea was excessively cheesy, but as I said, YMMV.       

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

You are exceptionally rude and pretty good and making elitest patronizing remarks alcestis, congratz bro, again all I was trying to do was throw some stuff around no idea why you have to be so fierce about what ever you are saying. And what kind of DM just kills off a party because they found a break point in the rules? A lame incompetent one with no imagination and no ability to cook up a house rule or three to get what ever the players are doing back to a reasonable medium. Regardless this has been totally derailed so I'll be moving on now.



Alcestis is one of the best helpers I've had on the boards, personally. After reading everything, I didn't think he was coming off as rude at all. . .
Even though the point has been made, I'll reiterate:

What you are saying in the original post is a legitimate tactic and, for all intents and purposes, will work*.
What Alcestis is trying to say is -
A) It will, unquestionaly, slow down combat. Between you "taking two turns" and the DM having to redo the Initiative order everytime on your turn, it will bog down a combat system that already takes longer than most.
B) It will open the DM's eyes to possible tactics regarding this too, and he will (If he was a DM worth his salt) use it against you.
B2) A poster said that no DM would outright kill his characters, or at least "be that mean". It's the DM's job to be a neutral arbiter of the rules. In my experience as a DM, if a monster/group of monsters saw a character pulling a lot of damage on one of their allies, they would direct their attention towards that ally. See below for more . . .
C) The DM would use the same trickery you are using (And as Alcestis said, to greater advantage than you ever could) to avoid Defender penalties and beat your character into a bloody pulp.

(* = Note though that you will go lower and lower on the initiative, and once you hit bottom you cannot ready an action anymore as all readied actions become null and void on a new round.)

Combat in D&D is a gentlemans game. Everyone is aware there are rules to bend, but it is a silent agreement that you do not twist and bend them to your will . . . You do your part respectfully, the DM will do his part. I assure you the DM will always win in his Matrix.

Also, keep in mind a lot of these people on the forums play, or at least discuss as if playing in the weekly Wednesday Wizards events. Sure, anyone can play a home game and cheese it up by the rules, but once you step into the real arena, A) Others won't like your cheese (Assuming you can get away with it) and the DM will beat you down fast, B) You'll lack any real experience regarding other things.

Alcestis was simply offering you sage advice to not go down the rabbit hole you are dancing upon and even backed it up with evidence.
If it wasn't the answer you wanted to hear, so be it, but to me it's a fair answer / warning.
Ok this question indirectly applies to the title of the thread, but when you ready an action and then that action triggers, is it still considered your turn or rather the same turn as you readied said action?


No. As described in the rules for Readied actions, when you take the action, it occurs as an Immediate Reaction - and Immediate actions can only occur when it isn't your turn.
Alcestis was simply offering you sage advice to not go down the rabbit hole you are dancing upon and even backed it up with evidence.
If it wasn't the answer you wanted to hear, so be it, but to me it's a fair answer / warning.


Sage advice and evidence? I don't agree. In my experience there are a few things a DM should never do, and trying to get into an arms race with the players is one of them.

Bad DMing, and I know I'm guilty of it outside 4E and probably at least once in, when players start teleporting enemies into the air or over cliffs; The solution is not to grant the same schtick to the monsters and strand/kill PCs, it's much better to talk to the players and explain the issue. Likewise readied actions if you think it is abusive.


Couple of other points already touched on. Readied actions reset your initiative just before the trigger, you choose the trigger, if you have a buddy up next, the initiative isn't going to change, if you have a minor action attack and a standard action ready, you are making the same number of attacks as if you were acting all on your own turn, you are not taking significant amounts of extra time. You also lose out on your immediate action for the round, this isn't a big downside but is part of a tradeoff.

Personally I don't see it as a problem, I'd go so far as to say it's just another nova attempt. You know all those features and powers that grant a bonus until the end of your next turn? There are a lot of them and they get held in pretty damn high regard. Similar situation, you're gaining increasing benefit from having minor attacks, multiple attacks, immediate action attacks, free action attacks and action points.


Alcestis was simply offering you sage advice to not go down the rabbit hole you are dancing upon and even backed it up with evidence.
If it wasn't the answer you wanted to hear, so be it, but to me it's a fair answer / warning.


Sage advice and evidence? I don't agree. In my experience there are a few things a DM should never do, and trying to get into an arms race with the players is one of them.



...which is why the sage advice was "don't do this, it tends to start an arms race with the DM" and backed that up with the evidence of "this has happened nearly every time a player tries this"
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
...which is why the sage advice was "don't do this, it tends to start an arms race with the DM" and backed that up with the evidence of "this has happened nearly every time a player tries this"


Except it came out as, "lol, you'll get TPK'd for trying".

Reinforcing the idea that a DM should react in such a matter is what I'm objecting so strongly to. I feel whether the tactic is abusive or not would be a much better focus for the discussion.
I usually disapprove of readying action tricks. They bog things down. They evade the way powers and encounters are normally supposed to operate. If a clay scout isn't able to redirect an attack, it's a useless monster that shouldn't be in the fight. And in the end, a DM will be able to do it better than the players.

That said, the rogue ready trick is about the least problematic of the these tricks. The intiative board doesn't change and you go immediately after your turn; it's easy. I've used it before (only for action point attacks though), but I ask the table if they want that cheese. It's pretty much the equivilant of just having the Slaying Action feat (a pretty weak feat - damage is only every other encounter and just once an encounter). Unless you really build out with minor action attacks to push the tactic it's not too much of a problem, but use with caution in that case.

(* = Note though that you will go lower and lower on the initiative, and once you hit bottom you cannot ready an action anymore as all readied actions become null and void on a new round.)


Do you have a rules reference for this point?  As far as I'm aware, a round is the time between a character's turns, you don't lose your ready unless it fails to go off before your next turn (in the same way as you only get one Immediate between each of your turns).  The timing of the end of the round is irrelevant, for the most part, as initiative is cyclical.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

(* = Note though that you will go lower and lower on the initiative, and once you hit bottom you cannot ready an action anymore as all readied actions become null and void on a new round.)


Do you have a rules reference for this point?  As far as I'm aware, a round is the time between a character's turns, you don't lose your ready unless it fails to go off before your next turn (in the same way as you only get one Immediate between each of your turns).  The timing of the end of the round is irrelevant, for the most part, as initiative is cyclical.


That's a throwback to 1e/2e round/initiative tracking, innit?

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

fwiw: I brought up this loophole when the rule first changed. Many of the respondants at that time seemed ok with it, mentioning that the trick is not completely without cost; the rogue needs to use up his immediate action for the round to make the extra attack... and those immediate actions tend to otherwise get used in optimized builds.

I normally assume that a well played rogue is going to try to make everyone one of his attacks a sneak attack: i.e.:
- If he doesn't have combat advantage, he will ready an action to flank
- If he missed with an attack, he will use a minor action or an action point to immediately make another attack.
- If a Warlord can grant him another attack, he will want it to be a sneak attack.
- If he thinks an enemy might provoke, he will try to ensure he has combat advantage when the enemy does so.

etc.

... so when the rules provide a rogue with an opportunity use sneak damage a second time by readying an action, I guess I expect a rogue to use it.

But also: if a smart enemy is getting clobbered by a defender, I guess I expect him to start trying to figure out ways to avoid it with a readied action to act on the defender's turn... and then I'll also expect smart players to figure this out and start coordinating their actions to disrupt his readied action.

Still: if we have a concensus (i.e. simple majority opinion) that rogues really shouldn't be using this tactic, that's something I should probably mention in the forum FAQ. Anyone want to tabulate the 'votes'?
fwiw: I brought up this loophole when the rule first changed. Many of the respondants at that time seemed ok with it, mentioning that the trick is not completely without cost; the rogue needs to use up his immediate action for the round to make the extra attack... and those immediate actions tend to otherwise get used in optimized builds.

I normally assume that a well played rogue is going to try to make everyone one of his attacks a sneak attack: i.e.:
- If he doesn't have combat advantage, he will ready an action to flank
- If he missed with an attack, he will use a minor action or an action point to immediately make another attack.
- If a Warlord can grant him another attack, he will want it to be a sneak attack.
- If he thinks an enemy might provoke, he will try to ensure he has combat advantage when the enemy does so.

etc.

... so when the rules provide a rogue with an opportunity use sneak damage a second time by readying an action, I guess I expect a rogue to use it.

But also: if a smart enemy is getting clobbered by a defender, I guess I expect him to start trying to figure out ways to avoid it with a readied action to act on the defender's turn... and then I'll also expect smart players to figure this out and start coordinating their actions to disrupt his readied action.

Still: if we have a concensus (i.e. simple majority opinion) that rogues really shouldn't be using this tactic, that's something I should probably mention in the forum FAQ. Anyone want to tabulate the 'votes'?

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

LDB and Auspex. It has come up twice in the ask a simple question, get a simple answer thread since the change with similar responses. There was a thread on Enworld (that contained most of the hilarious party-death stories I mentioned) if you can dig that up.

It really is a slippery slope if players start doing it, trivializing encounters is quite doable with a coordinated party, then the DM has to start doing it to rebalance them. But the benefit is so much larger for the DM.

Plus the end result is constantly redoing the initiative board, which just isn't fun.
if players start doing it, trivializing encounters is quite doable with a coordinated party

Well, the point of most all tactics is kinda to 'make an encounter easier' ;), and 4e primarily seems to be a tactical game. My concern though is mainly that if it is an expectation that certain (seemingly normal, unambiguous) tactics not be used, it would probably be useful to communicate that expectation in the forum FAQ. This applies to sneak, defender readying, etc.

the end result is constantly redoing the initiative board, which just isn't fun.

The sneak trick can be done in a fairly routine manner without altering the initiative board, but I can certainly agree with that notion for similar readying tricks.


Sage advice and evidence? I don't agree. In my experience there are a few things a DM should never do, and trying to get into an arms race with the players is one of them.



There is a difference between an arms race and a necessary counter.
For example:

when players start teleporting enemies into the air or over cliffs;



You used this as an example, however:
A) MOST teleport powers (Or maybe the Teleport rules, I don't have the book in front of me at the moment) require the target of the power to be teleported to a solid, stable surface.
B) For powers that do not require it, the rules clearly state that any power (Teleport or otherwise) that forces a creature off of something, the creature gets an automatic saving throw to "grab onto the closest ledge" or some such.

Point is, if the DM puts a cliff or something for people to fall off, it's fair game for the PC's to try to exploit this . . . but likewise everyone gets a fair chance (50/50) to not fall off when pushed, pulled, teleported, whatever.

But the DM isn't going to put a cliff in EVERY encounter. He will, realistically, put enemies in every (combat) encounter. And cheesing it up like that and the DM returning the favor isn't an arms race, but a necessary counter to the increased DPS output (Practically x2 or even x3 in some cases) of a Character who is cheesing up the rules and treading on very loose ground.



A) MOST teleport powers (Or maybe the Teleport rules, I don't have the book in front of me at the moment) require the target of the power to be teleported to a solid, stable surface.

You point out the save rules for teleporting into the air in the post which is correct, so I just want to respond to this point.

Most teleport powers DO NOT require a solid stable surface. It may have been assumed by the designers, but none that I know of actually specify the type of space that can be teleported to.

I used a build up to Epic that since Paragon could fly at will and teleport enemies into the air for falling damage and prone. It's a nice combo, but with a 50-50 chance - dropping off for elites and solos, it's not a reliable gimick and sometimes guaranteeing a repositioned enemy is much superior than going for a little extra damage. 
There is a difference between an arms race and a necessary counter.

That's the way I see it as well. That's why I ask about my own rogue and readying a sneak attack when it comes up in a session. Also that I'm prepared to accept either ruling equally and suit the tastes of the table.

Basically, no.

-clarification ninja'd above-

My understanding is that it can be done with any teleport power, any time you teleport an enemy 4 squares, you instead drop them from 4 squares up, free 2d10 damage. Yes, you're quite right that everyone gets a saving throwing to negate the dangerous movement, however if that fails and if there is a particularly troublesome feature of the area, that's when I'm saying it's going to be generally unfun encounter for the player that gets stuck beneath the bridge, or down the well or in the cage, etc.

Back to the matter with sneak attack, this 'slippery slope' is well... laughably tame. I'm going to use paragon level play as an example, the standard rogue's sneak attack is worth an average 10.5 extra damage on a hit.  Personally I don't agree that is going to trivialise the encounter by any stretch of the imagination. Similar to 2d10 falling damage on a failed save? Similar if the enemy was vulnerable 5 for both of the rogue's attacks that round?
But the entire point of many peoples points is that there is a difference between using a Powers mechanic (Teleporting up in the air to drop for xd10 damage) and using the GAME'S mechanics to your advantage. One is "Oh, cool!" the other is "Jesus Christ, okay, let's readjust everything. Hey, do you want to take your readied action yet? What about now? Okay, let me readjust initiative here."
---
Also, I made a comment about readying an action and it being null at the end of a round. Does this no longer ring true?
I was playing a 4E game with a few friends a while back and readied an action to cast a heal on anyone who needed it. I was second to last on the initiative order and after the last guy went they put me back second to last and said oh well. I assumed those rules still apply. . .
Any clarifications or rules I can show them if this isn't true?
But the entire point of many peoples points is that there is a difference between using a Powers mechanic (Teleporting up in the air to drop for xd10 damage) and using the GAME'S mechanics to your advantage. One is "Oh, cool!" the other is "Jesus Christ, okay, let's readjust everything. Hey, do you want to take your readied action yet? What about now? Okay, let me readjust initiative here."
---
Also, I made a comment about readying an action and it being null at the end of a round. Does this no longer ring true?
I was playing a 4E game with a few friends a while back and readied an action to cast a heal on anyone who needed it. I was second to last on the initiative order and after the last guy went they put me back second to last and said oh well. I assumed those rules still apply. . .
Any clarifications or rules I can show them if this isn't true?


Just look at the rules for readied actions (PH1 pg. 291).  It only mentions that you take your next turn as normal if it comes up before your readied action is triggered; nothing about the end of a round.  (As others have pointed out, once initiative is rolled rounds are cyclical, so the notion of the "end" of a round is somewhat nonsensical.)

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

But the entire point of many peoples points is that there is a difference between using a Powers mechanic (Teleporting up in the air to drop for xd10 damage) and using the GAME'S mechanics to your advantage. One is "Oh, cool!" the other is "Jesus Christ, okay, let's readjust everything. Hey, do you want to take your readied action yet? What about now? Okay, let me readjust initiative here."


Initiative trackers like paizo.com/store/byCompany/o/openMindGame..." title="paizo.com/store/byCompany/o/openMindGame...">this one can help ease the pain of that considerably, and make initiative easier to track in general.

And the fact is, if the rogue's use of such Readying tactics is done ineptly enough to cause him to slip down the initiative list each time, the net result is that he is acting less frequently during that combat, making the tactic less useful.
Ok, I discussed it with several others groups and they also agreed, so I've added the following to the forum FAQ:
"Can a rogue inflict sneak attack damage on his turn, then do it a second time by readying an attack until just after his turn? Although RAW technically permits this, the concensus is that it is unintended (i.e. cheesy) and should not be done. This accord should also apply to a DM using a readied action to avoid certain defender powers or Offering of Justice."
What trigger are you using to ensure that the action actually triggers and isn't lost?
Trigger: I shout 'SNEAK ATTACK'.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

Yeah, you have to be careful that you declare it before the enemy declares any actions on its turn though, or you might lose your chance.  (Assuming its the enemy you plan to target that gets its turn next of course.)

Also ... that feels a bit OotS. 

Ok, I discussed it with several others groups and they also agreed, so I've added the following to the forum FAQ:
"Can a rogue inflict sneak attack damage on his turn, then do it a second time by readying an attack until just after his turn? Although RAW technically permits this, the concensus is that it is unintended (i.e. cheesy) and should not be done. This accord should also apply to a DM using a readied action to avoid certain defender powers or Offering of Justice."


Nitpick I know, but there is no 'technically' about it. Also would it not be more suited under the frequent questions related to readied actions, rather than powers?

Regardless, I stand by my assessment that any damage gained by the rogue is limited and involves a trade off. So can we please get away from the hyperbole, if the monsters want to get around the defender and gank the squishy, often the most they are avoiding here is a single challenge mechanic between them.
What trigger are you using to ensure that the action actually triggers and isn't lost?

"When -the next combatant in the initiative order- so much as twitches"
... assuming your DM doesn't let you trigger off an event like a turn a ending or beginning (some do), or off a free action shout.

Nitpick I know, but there is no 'technically' about it.

Removed 'technically'

would it not be more suited under the frequent questions related to readied actions, rather than powers?

Agreed. Done. Thank you for the suggestions.

The problem with that mvincent is that a readied action is a reaction, not an interrupt.  So it'll resolve after the action that triggered it by causing them to 'twitch'.

And the problem with a free action shout is declaring it before they do anything.  Declare it too early and its still your turn, declare it to late and they've already said what they are doing or started doing it.  In fact, it's kind of hard to time a free action shout to occur any time except after they've already said they are doing something (in which case it's not even a reaction to that something) and actually know its not your turn any more.  Basically, the exact same problem as trying to claim a trigger based on non-in-game mechanical stimuli.