[NPH] Spoilers and T2 Applications

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Note: If you don't wanna see spoilers for the new set, stop reading now.

Different from Future Speculation forum, here we'll discuss the spoiled cards' T2 applications. Link to spoiler: http://mtgsalvation.com/new-phyrexia-spoiler.html

White
Elesh Norn - She's a fantastic creature, I'll definitely try to make her of use, despite 7 mana tag. I'm testing a Big White list, and that deck easily hits 8 mana for Emeria anyway, and having this resolve against Caw-Blade is a fantastic game. 

Norn's Annex - It can come down for 3 colorless and 4 life, so it can be run in any deck, but with the premium deck of format being white and no swarm aggro decks being in the format, can't see how this'll be relevant.

puresteel palasin - Just maaaaybe it can work in a mono white Quest deck, since Metalcraft will be easy to enable, and cantriping Mortarpods, free to equip, sounds like a nice little deal. I doubt it'll push the deck in any fashion, but it's still worth to watch out for.


Blue
psychological Surgery - I honestly don't know how good this card is. It can be just a better Arbiter in caw/blade mirrors -fatestealing every time a fetchland goes crack, a Mystic or Hawk resolves, is nice, but those all are early games, and this card can become useless very fast.


Black
praetor's Grip - Funny odd little card. In caw mirrors, UWb is at disadvantage against pure UW, and this card could potentially act like a Thada Adel that doesn't have to attack. Get your SoFaF? Jace? Hell, most people would die for a 3 mana tutor for Jace. Can be a very good sb card if Caw keeps being so popular. 

phyrexian Canceller - This is like reverse phyrexian negator, meaner and angrier. Sure, a GftT kills it, but as a mainly red mage, I can't see how I could get rid of this... beast, without being in severe disadvantage. Issue is it needs mono black tho.


Artifact / Colorless
Karn - I spent last night thinking about how to use this thing and in what sort of deck. One mean way to do it is have a deck with few win conditions, that uses this, controls/prisons everything, starts over and over, and wins 1 game with severe Karn advantage (because each Ultimate makes your next Karn easier to cast. You can even exile a Karn in your hand and then have it be a Vindicate machine next game). I'm not reserved with any judgments on this card yet - but I'll definitely work on it. 

Hex parasite - This is a pw killer and a Gideon Jura response. Jura and not Jace is currently the most broken pw I'd like to play now, and it'll be more and more obvious once Jace rotates. His ability is sick. He's cheap, he's artifact. Goodness gracious.

Screamwhip - First I was like "Meh", then I saw Living Weapon... It's, what? It's a huge, huge fat? And you equip it to phyrexian crusader/vampire nighthawk? Definitely on my watch list.

Spellsplitter - Odd little creature. Effectively, gives all your creatures shroud for a while. Makes them mostly unburnable. Where would it fit tho? What could use it? I have really no idea.
 

Black and Artifact stuff is some of the sickest stuff and it's just 23 cards revealed so far. I can't wait to see some commons and uncommons. I love me some phyrexian love.
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Two amazingly strong in nearly all context black cards... one designed for MBC that is going to have to be acknowledged by the meta?

/twitch 

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I think Elesh Norn is gonna do things to the meta that most people can't imagine... I mean, she shuts down Hawks, Grave Tokens, and pretty much every aggro deck there is. Oh, and pair her with White Son's Zenith for pure nastiness.

Also, I'm thinking that t3 Lich, t4 Canceller is going to be a very strong play for mid-range Black. 

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When I saw Hex Parasite I was like whoa. And I do like the new black cards, Praetor's Grip can be used to strip decks of swords or tutor up Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine which are all sweet cards, you can't really maindeck the thing though, it is basically a blank against aggro.
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
And pretty clear indicators that the next block will have a monocolored theme (or perhaps just M12).  That should make you happy, Niche.


Snap judgments:
Karn is being overhyped and won't be worth the effort.  Yeah you can ramp into him...but why not just ramp into Valakut for cheaper and win sooner?

Puresteel Paladin makes mystic decks stupid and will likely mean the death of cawblade in favor of some Wx/artifact/Tempered Steel beast.

Phyrexian canceller seems dope in MBC and Vampires.

Hex Parasite and Spellsplitter are really good.

Fresh Meat means token decks are suddenly legit.

Metallic Demon makes Kred playable again...maybe.

 
Karn is a colorless re-usable answer for mono black to problem permanents. Granted so is Spine of Ish Tzah but Karn has got a bit more leverage for the same CC.

I'm still stoked over Canceller. Still wiping spittle off my face. I know in the past I've complained about how black has stolen green's piece of the color wheel with undercosted fat... but this one is playable in the extreme and has amazingly potent flavor.

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I definitely agree with you on Karn and Puresteel Paladin. Paladin is one of those "You must answer me." cards, and Karn while pretty good isn't insane or anything like some people seem to think, he most likely will see play though.
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
When I saw Hex Parasite I was like whoa. And I do like the new black cards, Praetor's Grip can be used to strip decks of swords or tutor up Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine which are all sweet cards, you can't really maindeck the thing though, it is basically a blank against aggro.



meh, you could still at least grab a land Tongue out

Phyrexian Canceller is undercosted. It's going to be a "money card" and a staple of mono-black; whether control or beatdown, it fits the bill for both.

Karn will be a fun EDH planeswalker. He's too slow and expensive for Standard. I'm sure some decks will get use out of him, but he won't be in everything.

Hex Parasite is amazing and will be in the sideboards of almost everything.

I like the Screamwhip. It looks like a great 4-drop for mono-black aggro players who cannot afford to buy the Canceller.
Still haven't seen a solid answer for stoneforge-hawks yet, though Karn is pretty damn solid, and might just make Tezz decks viable. Hex parasite is just delicious, especially with the notion that you can pay life as an alternate resource. As scary as it sounds, I would GLADLY pay 16 life to eat a gideon, if it means I can kill their jace and play my own walkers in the same turn.

Canceller is sexy, though I don't see him getting a lot of play until after rotation. He certainly punishes decks for playing inferno, primeval, and grave titan though... Maybe a B/R list running Canceller, Lich, Percy, and Sarkhan the Mad....

Spellsplitter and Canceller seem like hardcore RDW hate cards as well, and RDW isn't even hard to hate on at the moment.

Mark my words - Puresteel paladin is going to make WW quest a solid FNM-level deck, and possibly tourney-competitive if you can get some neat tricks into the mix.

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Still haven't seen a solid answer for stoneforge-hawks yet, though Karn is pretty damn solid, and might just make Tezz decks viable. Hex parasite is just delicious, especially with the notion that you can pay life as an alternate resource. As scary as it sounds, I would GLADLY pay 16 life to eat a gideon, if it means I can kill their jace and play my own walkers in the same turn.


The lifepay is only for the colored part.  There's still an X for colorless mana.
Karn is sickening - He should have cost 9 because he's colourless. That said, he's not broken. Hopefully he'll be the NPH promo mythic because every ramp and every control deck will want at least one. Interestingly, his ultimate is actually among the worst ultimate's printed so far - If you can keep Karn alive long enough to exile relevant cards and pull off his ultimate, chances are you were winning the game anyway, and hence probably didn't gain all that much by restarting it.

I'm coming around on Norn, but I still think she's too narrow to see mainstream play in anything currently in the format. 
Karn is sickening - He should have cost 9 because he's colourless. That said, he's not broken. Hopefully he'll be the NPH promo mythic because every ramp and every control deck will want at least one. Interestingly, his ultimate is actually among the worst ultimate's printed so far - If you can keep Karn alive long enough to exile relevant cards and pull off his ultimate, chances are you were winning the game anyway, and hence probably didn't gain all that much by restarting it.

I'm coming around on Norn, but I still think she's too narrow to see mainstream play in anything currently in the format. 



His ultimate is irrelevant. He's a planeswalker killer, and he has a greater impact-per-turn than Jace or Gideon. Obviously, this is kinda necessary for 7 mana, but when you compare him to Sorin, you begin to see the jump in power. It'll be interesting to see if Architect decks can make use of him effectively, at least before rotation. Mostly-Black-Control could actually become a house if we see a better answer for hawks.

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Phyrexian Cancellor can go into B/R with 4x Lavaclaw, Dragonskull and Blackcleave.  mono B my ass.
Phyrexian Cancellor can go into B/R with 4x Lavaclaw, Dragonskull and Blackcleave.  mono B my ass.



That's why I said MOSTLY-Black-Control Cool. Personally, I would still rather splash blue for preordain, steel sabotage, and spell pierce, but that's just me. If I can find a way to run Canceller and grand architect in the same deck, I'm going to play it non-stop. The biggest problem for canceller is just the same as it was for Percy - Jace and Tumble Magnet.

Also, fun interaction for the EDH crowd - Arena and the Canceller for massive permanent annihilation.

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I dont think you gusy are seeing Karn clearly, hes gonna be a friggin shield, 6 loyalty +4 first turn now he's 10? and you cant really afford to not go at him full on. And dont start teh "well you opponent will discard cards that yeild no advantage" because you are gonna use him on yourself to exile cards you DO want when you restart. 

Even if all you exile is 2 lands thats a huge advantage, think moxes.  but in all likelyhood you will a planeswalker or titan or eldrazi or some other power card which will only force your opponent to tap everythign to kill him leaving them open for retaliation.
Karn is sickening - He should have cost 9 because he's colourless. That said, he's not broken. Hopefully he'll be the NPH promo mythic because every ramp and every control deck will want at least one. Interestingly, his ultimate is actually among the worst ultimate's printed so far - If you can keep Karn alive long enough to exile relevant cards and pull off his ultimate, chances are you were winning the game anyway, and hence probably didn't gain all that much by restarting it.

I'm coming around on Norn, but I still think she's too narrow to see mainstream play in anything currently in the format. 



His ultimate is irrelevant. He's a planeswalker killer, and he has a greater impact-per-turn than Jace or Gideon. Obviously, this is kinda necessary for 7 mana, but when you compare him to Sorin, you begin to see the jump in power. It'll be interesting to see if Architect decks can make use of him effectively, at least before rotation. Mostly-Black-Control could actually become a house if we see a better answer for hawks.



Architect will be unable to use him any better than others; he's not an artifact.
Seems like black already has some of the most useful tools for interacting with jace and tumble magnet; Hexmage and easy use of Revoker.

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I dont think you gusy are seeing Karn clearly, hes gonna be a friggin shield, 6 loyalty +4 first turn now he's 10? and you cant really afford to not go at him full on. And dont start teh "well you opponent will discard cards that yeild no advantage" because you are gonna use him on yourself to exile cards you DO want when you restart. 

Even if all you exile is 2 lands thats a huge advantage, think moxes.  but in all likelyhood you will a planeswalker or titan or eldrazi or some other power card which will only force your opponent to tap everythign to kill him leaving them open for retaliation.



If you don't have to -3 Karn when he comes into play, then either your opponent is topdecking, or you are already winning the game. The Restart is a skill test, and it's a highly situational one, so it's going to happen in similar situations as a Jace Ultimate. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable exiling cards out of my hand in anticipation of a Karn Ultimate, unless it's my ONLY way to not lose the current match.


Architect will be unable to use him any better than others; he's not an artifact.



Architect lets you play artifact ramp for value, so you can land turn 5 karn. Architect + Tezz + Karn + Mindslaver is already getting my juices flowing in terms of synergy shenanigans.

Seems like black already has some of the most useful tools for interacting with jace and tumble magnet; Hexmage and easy use of Revoker.



Meh, revoker is such a terrible card in practice. So easy to deal with, and it requires a lot of support in order to reach potential. The Hex Parasite + Hexmage should be enough for black lists to ensure they won't lose to enemy walkers.

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Architect + Tezz + Karn + Mindslaver is already getting my juices flowing in terms of synergy shenanigans.


If you DO build such a deck and DO take it to a tourney, give me your addy and I'll send you a signed Architect by your's kedi, with "Juice" written all over it.

And also, I think the easiest use of Karn is in the Sharfman UW as a singleton. Vindicate machine gun? Sign me. 
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Architect lets you play artifact ramp for value, so you can land turn 5 karn. Architect + Tezz + Karn + Mindslaver is already getting my juices flowing in terms of synergy shenanigans.



No more so than Valakut, Cobra.dec, etc.

Seems like black already has some of the most useful tools for interacting with jace and tumble magnet; Hexmage and easy use of Revoker.



Meh, revoker is such a terrible card in practice. So easy to deal with, and it requires a lot of support in order to reach potential. The Hex Parasite + Hexmage should be enough for black lists to ensure they won't lose to enemy walkers.



I still think this is because people keep trying to use Phyrexian Revoker as Pithing Needle; something you can play cheaply, name a problem card, and then not worry about it for the rest of the game.

The fact that Revoker is a creature makes a big difference to the way he plays. His role is in an aggressive deck that only needs to disrupt the opponent a little to take the win. For that reason, you should usually only name cards that your opponent is currently using, not the worst-card-in-the-matchup. For instance, it's quite a powerful play to name Everflowing Chalice or Joraga Treespeaker when your opponent actually has them in play in the relevant matchups, even though guys like Tezzeret, Jace, Gideon or Fauna Shaman may be more dangerous in the abstract.


I still think this is because people keep trying to use Phyrexian Revoker as Pithing Needle; something you can play cheaply, name a problem card, and then not worry about it for the rest of the game.

The fact that Revoker is a creature makes a big difference to the way he plays. His role is in an aggressive deck that only needs to disrupt the opponent a little to take the win. For that reason, you should usually only name cards that your opponent is currently using, not the worst-card-in-the-matchup. For instance, it's quite a powerful play to name Everflowing Chalice or Joraga Treespeaker when your opponent actually has them in play in the relevant matchups, even though guys like Tezzeret, Jace, Gideon or Fauna Shaman may be more dangerous in the abstract.



Truth. I lost a few games because my opponent named Llanowar Elves. That simple play completely shut down a god hand and led to my loss a few turns later when I couldn't dig out of the hole.

So, the big cards to get so far:

Hasty, tap down red man: For a midrangey red deck, like Big Red, it makes the archetype viable. This guy is basically a Demigod, that hastes your whole team and makes their guys CIPT, seems good to me, as you can't throw down chumpers. Expect this guy to see play.

Canceller: This guy is pretty unfair, he can stop non Frost-titan titans from attacking, since getting 6-for-1'd is bad. You can happily run him into a caw-blade player, and he'll live if they block, still deal damage and then they lose stuff. This guy is a great answer for Caw blade funnily enough.

Karn: 1-2 of in control decks, recurring Vindicate is amazing, this card basically invalidates Spine for the most part, which is a terrible card anyway, but some people like using it. Giving this effect to all colours though seems like an error. It's annoying that they print a decent planeswalker killer here, but it happens to be an expensive planeswalker itself.

Hexy thing: This guy is ok, but very fragile and control decks can play around it easily enough. It's like a Gorlilla Shaman for planeswalkers really, but obviously not as relevant.
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The Hex parasite nails nearly every planeswalker in one hit, barring Gideon or soon to be Karn. That alone is going to make it sideboard material for a few lists. Phy Canceller is really, really good. I know that most of the titans are must-remove from the moment they hit the board, but Canceller A) Does this on turn 4, and B) Has to be dealt with through non-damage means. Obviously, Jace and tumble magnet are strong reponses, but I'm pretty happy about forcing jace into constant -1 mode.


Whats scary is the impact some of these cards will have on limited. Sunblast Angel and Hoard-Smelter Dragon used to be bombs. How the hell does a deck recover from a T4 Canceller without sandbagging a GoFer?

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The more I think about it the less I like the Hex Parasite. At least with Vampire Hexmage you have to sacrifice the permanent and lose the card. With Hex Parasite you not only get re-use, but ANY color can take advantage of it.

Maybe it won't matter much since it's so easy to kill.

So, the big cards to get so far:

Hasty, tap down red man: For a midrangey red deck, like Big Red, it makes the archetype viable. This guy is basically a Demigod, that hastes your whole team and makes their guys CIPT, seems good to me, as you can't throw down chumpers. Expect this guy to see play.


If red gets any infect, this guy will make BR(G?) aggro infect a deck.
I don't really like the red Praetor.

By turn five, I don't care *that* much about my opponent's creature drops, or about hasting my own guys if I'm playing aggressive red.

If I'm playing Big Red, turn 5 is late to start shutting opposing guys down - against aggro, I wouldn't tap out for this - and I'm not playing *that* many creatures to utilize his haste ability with. Mostly Koth lands (already hasty) and some other big threat or two. Which the Praetor takes away spots from.

I'm just not feeling it, I guess.
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I don't really like the red Praetor.

By turn five, I don't care *that* much about my opponent's creature drops, or about hasting my own guys if I'm playing aggressive red.

If I'm playing Big Red, turn 5 is late to start shutting opposing guys down - against aggro, I wouldn't tap out for this - and I'm not playing *that* many creatures to utilize his haste ability with. Mostly Koth lands (already hasty) and some other big threat or two. Which the Praetor takes away spots from.

I'm just not feeling it, I guess.


Exactly. By turn 4 I had Koth anyway. And only creature relevant with it is Inferno Titan. I'll try it out, but I don't really think it's any good.
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heres my opinions:
 the chancellor is why?  stupidly OP negator is Stupidly OP.

Karn can and will se play as he sees fit. 

the repeata-hexmage doesn't seem too bad.

Red praetor looks very convienant for alot of things, and insta hasty beats is actually very nice.

fresh meat looks good.

the rest look kind of meh to me, including the white praetoe, because of the fact that the white praetor costs to much and karn is alot better in that slot....
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Fresh Meat serves one function only - combo.

It doesn't work as Wrath protection.

There might be some fun Eldrazi Spawn combos out there or something, though, and my guess is that a lot of bad decks are going to pop up in deck help because of this card.
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Yeah, the Canceller might just be the set defining card, sickeningly enough. It's so strong I'm not afraid to call this shot with the vast majority of the set being unspoiled.

Karn is great and all, but his application and relevance will be stifled by his casting cost.

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So Karn is 50$ preorder. Naissss.
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Fresh Meat serves one function only - combo.

It doesn't work as Wrath protection.

There might be some fun Eldrazi Spawn combos out there or something, though, and my guess is that a lot of bad decks are going to pop up in deck help because of this card.


It's great wrath protection, especially for elves.  It is an instant.

And there is already a decent spawn/furnace token deck out there that just needs a bit of help.   I could easily see sacing 4-6 tokens, burning for a few damage, then dropping 4-6 3/3 hasty dudes down.

So Karn is 50$ preorder. Naissss.


save your money, everyone.

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It's great wrath protection, especially for elves.  It is an instant.

And there is already a decent spawn/furnace token deck out there that just needs a bit of help.   I could easily see sacing 4-6 tokens, burning for a few damage, then dropping 4-6 3/3 hasty dudes down.



It's horrible Wrath protection. Which aggro deck would ever just leave four mana open for several turns - only *hoping* that the opponent Wraths, because any other play (Gideon, Jace, BSA, Mystic/Hawk shenanigans) are furthering your opponent's board, while you're holding up mana to protect youself (from a card that the opponent might not even have in hand)?

None. Not even Elves can afford doing this without suffering backlash.

Might be good/decent/whatever as a combo tool, though.
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So Karn is 50$ preorder. Naissss.


save your money, everyone.



BF, you gotta stop this. Put some ****ing content into your posts.

I actually think Karn is warranted as a $50 card, moreso than Tezz. And if Gideon ends up reprinted in M12 as has been speculated, then Karn becomes even more powerful.

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It's great wrath protection, especially for elves.  It is an instant.

And there is already a decent spawn/furnace token deck out there that just needs a bit of help.   I could easily see sacing 4-6 tokens, burning for a few damage, then dropping 4-6 3/3 hasty dudes down.



It's horrible Wrath protection. Which aggro deck would ever just leave four mana open for several turns - only *hoping* that the opponent Wraths, because any other play (Gideon, Jace, BSA, Mystic/Hawk shenanigans) are furthering your opponent's board, while you're holding up mana to protect youself (from a card that the opponent might not even have in hand)?

None. Not even Elves can afford doing this without suffering backlash.

Might be good/decent/whatever as a combo tool, though.


If I play dudes on 1, 2, 3 and my opponent is control (and therefore not playing dudes who can race me) why would I overextend, anyways?  I might drop a guy on turn 4 and cross my fingers, but with 3-4 aggro dudes (who are green, and therefore big) already applying pressure, I just sit and win--unless they wipe.  Now a wipe isn't even backbreaking.
I'm with Rooster. I think Fresh Meat is a good card, wrath protection or not.

It has applications for aggro and combo decks.

Eldrazi tokens holding sylvok lifestaffs...... chain out X*3 life for one mana on the front side... then fresh meat and convert them into 3/3s. This has little meaningful application in the current environment outside of furnace celebration however. Or maybe Pridemate.

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Eh, tho, the only deck that wants a wrath defense is elves and they already have Monuments, which I'd rather have, as it doubles as lord and evasion on matches without a wrath. 
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So Karn is 50$ preorder. Naissss.


save your money, everyone.



BF, you gotta stop this. Put some ****ing content into your posts.

I actually think Karn is warranted as a $50 card, moreso than Tezz. And if Gideon ends up reprinted in M12 as has been speculated, then Karn becomes even more powerful.


would you say this to glux too? 

i wouldn't waste $50 on karn because i don't think he's going to hold value at all close to $50.  i honestly see him dipping below $20 easily.  remember when the eldrazi were spoiled?  they were like $20, 30, 40 or whatever.  are they that now?  hell no.  karn is 7 mana, lets not forget that, colorless or not.  sure, vindicates are nice, but its not like that spine thing has caught on and its abusable too.  its not to say karn won't see play or anything, its just i really get the feeling that most people are overvaluing him already.  who knows, i could be wrong, its just what i'm thinking.  he's sorta like a nicol bolas, ya know?  very, very narrow card.

and to those who think he'll be playable in MBC for some reason, why?  why would he now see play?  you've had all is dust for forever and this spine thing as well as things like ratchet bomb and lux cannon.  yea, they're all slow, but how is karn any different?

karn is an ok utility card in decks that can stomach his mana, but don't go saying he's some sort of godsend.

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