Beyond Bodily Brutality: the Basics of Building Battleminds

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Lightning Rush does not say you must move. If you move, you move adjacent. Most of the time, that's a requirement for Lightning Rush because the attack is a melee 1 power. But in this case, your Dreamform is right next to the target.

It isn't useless regardless. It means any time you spend power points, you can automatically use that power at a range of close burst 10. You're next to your mark and doing damage to your focus fire target. Lodestone Lure as an example.



Trigger: An enemy within 5 squares of you targets an ally with an attack

Effect: Before the attack, you move your speed to a square adjacent to the triggering enemy.



Not trying to be deliberately disagreeable here, but the wording is pretty clear in that the power has the effect that you move. Saying you can ignore this effect is like saying that Wizards don't have to damage and daze all targets in their area bursts, for example.

But Dreamwalker is a good PP for defenders, I'll give you that. Combining your dreamform with lockdown powers like LL is pretty nice. Still, the fact that you can't use the encounter or daily power effectively does hold it back.



This has never stopped the Kensei PP, and it won't stop a Dreamwalker considering it actually gives you an encounter power in the form of the 2 PP. So really, you're just down a daily, which is easy to deal with.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
You could just leave your dreamform next to whomever you were defending instead.


But what good does that do? Mind Spike, Blurred Step and Forceful Reversal don't trigger when enemies attack or shift away from your dreamform.

The Swordmage power Glamor Blade works better in this instance, however. The way I read it, all the Battlemind goodies trigger from the duplicate.
I'm looking for the Brutal Barrage optimization section, anyone know where I can find it.
Keep on the Shadowfell Essentials Group 2 - Azigen, Dwarven Warpriest Rise of the Runelords - Pathfinder 4e - Himdur, Dwarven Cleric

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I've been thinking a little bit too much about flying defenders lately, but I've noticed something interesting for Battleminds: if you use Lodestone Lure while hovering 2 squares above the enemy, your target is practically immobilized unless it can also fly. And wouldn't you know, the Battlemind has a paragon path in Storm Disciple that provides him with a way to stay afloat every encounter until he gets hit. The path is rated purple, but I think you should make a short mention of this interaction.

As for build suggestions, a Halfling (for the reroll) with Lodestone Lure, Lightning Rush (as your off-action while you're flying), Windlord theme (for the level 10 utility and boost to flight speed) and high defenses seems like it would be a blast to play.
I hope this isn't considered too self-promoting, but...I think my Battlemind|Paladin turned out pretty well, if you wanted to link to it.
I'm quite new to the DND 4.0 scene, but isn't a flail with flail expertise and an at-will power that slides quite worth investing in? Maybe someone can help me out with this. A permanent knockdown looks nice for stickiness.
It is far far more than just that.  Say you have an at will that slides and you take flail expertise.  Now that power can prone that target instead of sliding.  Take MC Fighter and then take dragging flail.  Your power that slides, now prones, and dragging flail allows you to slide the target 1 when you prone.  Take a staggering flail, say +2 staggering flail, now your at will that slides, now prones, now slides 3(1 from dragging flail, 2 from staggering flail).

So you can knock down any creature, make flying creatures within reach land, and position them where you want.  If you get lashing flail, then if they provoke an OA and you hit, you can slide the target 3 or prone the target, slide the target 3.  I do this with a character I play now which drives a DM crazy.  There are lots of flails that have anywhere from 1d8, +2, off-hand to 2d4, +3, reach that with a feat you can treat as double light blades.
Wow thank you! ^^ I'm going to take a look at my battlemind and see if I can implement this stuff. I found a weapon from the dark sun campaign, that has the same properties as a Longsword, but is a flail. It's called an Alhulak, which you prolly already know ^^
Flails
-Alhulak: 1d8, +3
-Calhulak: 1d8, +2, Reach, Heavy Thrown, Range 3/6, Superior
-Scourge: 1d8, +2, Off-Hand
-Spike Chain: 2d4, +3, Reach, with Spike Chain Training you also consider it to be a Double Weapon Light Blade in addition to Flail, Superior
-Flail: 1d10, +2
-Triple-Headed Flail: 1d10, +3, Versatile, Superior
-Heavy Flail: 2d6, +2
-Kusari-Gama: 1d10, +2, Reach, Defensive, Stout, Double Weapon, 1d6, +2, Light Blade at the other end, Superior
-Net: 1d6, +2, Off-Hand, Heavy Thrown, Range 2/5, Superior
-Bola: 1d4, +2, Light Thrown, Range 4/8, Superior
-Double Flail: 1d8, +2, Defensive, Stout, Off-Hand, Double Weapon, Superior

Flails really came into their own with the addition of Flail Expertise.  They even have a feat that gives you +2 attack if your target is using a shield.

Edit: Forgot a few flails.  Added Superior.  Almost tempted to make a list of flails, heroic powers that can abuse them, ways to abuse slide/prone and feats/features that really allow you to abuse the mechanic but I do not think I have the skills to do it and I know that others can do it better.
^ might want to add which ones are superior weapons, and thus require the investment of a feat.
Im fairly new to D&D (My battlemind is level 7, but im this is my first campaign and still not crystal clear on optimizing things), and I have a question about the Lightning Rush battlemind at-will..

Everything Ive read basically says when I get to level 7, I need to get Lightning Rush. That it is the best thing in the world. At first read, I thought it was amazing because i was under the impression that I could use it when every enemy attacked, but, as i learned in another thread, I can only use one immediate interupt per round. So basically, Lightning Rush lets me move across the board 5 squares to attack an enemy that is attacking my ally, I will probably take AoO's during my movement, and my attack just does damage (no marks, conditions, forced movement, etc) unless I augment it, and I also lose my standard action during my next turn.

I would understand why everyone is so high on this attack if i could use it every time an enemy attacked an ally within 5 squares of me, but since i cant, i dont understand why this attack is so great. What am i missing from this?
Example:
You are just doing damage, you have a different defender.

Enemy within 5 squares is attacking the defender because the defender has the enemy marked.  You spend 2 power points, use lightning rush.  You now move to the enemy and get a 2[W]+mod+rider attack and then you become the target of the attack. 

Congradulations, you just caused the enemy to trigger mark enforcement from the defender.  The enemy takes -2 to hit you and can be hit by the defender's mark enforcement such as a warrior's combat challenge, a swordmage's aegis of assault, etc.  You just got an off-turn 2[W] attack and made the enemy take mark enforcement meaning there is a chance that the tank got an off-turn attack. 

Off-turn attacks are very good things.
Under Themes, Windlord should probably be mentioned, though black. The Encounter Power has flight baked in, which can give you the extra movement to replace a charge with an attack using your primary stat/help mitigate the melee basic problem, but not the main reason to take it. The boosts to Perception and Athletics are also nice as they're skills based on secondary/tertiary stats. The Utility 2 helps improve stickiness though making difficult terrain in a burst 2.


Again, not great, but gives another option early to increase stickiness and a potential basic attack "substitution".  
Sadly... none of us have heard from Dedekine in months. Unless this guide is replaced, I doubt it will be updated. (Pity really, he's a very interesting person.)
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
What sort of Battlemind build is good for a Tiefling? Can one be made to wield a Polearm reasonably well? I'm trying to make a Battlemind for an all-Tiefling party but I'm not sure where to go with it.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
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58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
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63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
I wouldn't go with a polearm build; the stats don't line up well, and Mind Spike wants you to be adjacent, and you're very mobile, so polearms don't line up especially well. What's your goal? If you want to be the primary defender, then I'd recommend being a hybrid (probably with paladin).

For weapon choice, it matters what at-will you plan on spamming (since that's pretty much how psionic classes work). If you're going Intellect Snap, for example, then a mace + Dizzying Mace is awesome. If you're damage-focused (Brutal Barrage), then a heavy blade gives you all the pieces you want. My default choice would probably be a flail, for the +3 prof and some really good control support (flail expertise and dragging flail are both useful on the right build).

Being a tiefling doesn't really matter too much, because they don't have any particular weapon-specific tricks that I can think of, nor do they lock you into any particular play style.

EDIT: Worth mentioning HBO for heavy blades, too. The stat prereq sucks bad, but there are some neat tricks that can be done with it.
I wouldn't go with a polearm build; the stats don't line up well, and Mind Spike wants you to be adjacent, and you're very mobile, so polearms don't line up especially well. What's your goal? If you want to be the primary defender, then I'd recommend being a hybrid (probably with paladin).


Past level 7, Lightning Rush is your primary defender mechanic.

Being a tiefling doesn't really matter too much, because they don't have any particular weapon-specific tricks that I can think of, nor do they lock you into any particular play style.


Here's a thought for a tiefling:

Infernal Prince theme MC Monk/Soaring Blade (fire at F16) + Hellfire Blood + Firewind Blade has some game for a Brutal Barrage spammer.

I'll have to play around with it a bit, not sure how I'm going to go with it.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
I feel like going full blade (which is by far my favorite weapon for the at will opportunities) is really hurting defenses, at level 16 I'm at 32 30 25 31 with imp def, superior reflex and superior will. A shield would give +2 ac, and +2 to will and fortitude with the correct feats. Is the at will retaliate worth the defenses lost?

Other then that, the flavor of the class is off the charts, teleporting to enemies that hit me, rushing to enemies 5 squares away, the "oh you hit my ally with a crit 4d12+20? Go ahead and remove those hit points from your self too" opportunity attack and much much else.
Mindspike is the worse punishment of any defender. Even the cavalier's punishment happens more than once/tier.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
It'll proc a bunch 1-6
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Mindspike is the worse punishment of any defender. Even the cavalier's punishment happens more than once/tier.



Mind Spike triggers more often if your allies provoke OAs.  Or doesn't trigger, and your allies get away OA-free.  Both are nice.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Trading PCHP for Monster HP at 1:1 is a bad trade for the PC.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
It works really well when your DM ups defenses by 4-8
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'm not sure... depending on PC opt level and so on...

PC HP is nominally small.  PCs have Con+12+level*5 or so HP, monsters have Con+12+level*8 hp. (and easier access to a 13 Con, and auto-scaling of Con)

But the expectation is you'll spend about 1-2 surges a combat (yeah, the squishy melee strikers are laughing right now.  1-2?  Ha!  More like 4-6!  But since that's obviously unsustainable across an adventuring day, I'm gonna go with 1-2.  Specifically, 1.5).  So that's effectively (1+1.5/4)*(Con+12+level*5), or around (1.4*Con + 16.5 + level*7).  So that's really rather close to monster HP.  The difference is PCs have a bad habit of losing turns due to unconsciousness... but since you know your HP at the point in time, that's also managable.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Note also that you tend to fight monsters 2-3 levels above you.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Which means that the DPR of a monster attack that auto hits is suddenly rather good. (and then you can likely afford the two surges required to make the math work)

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Trading PCHP for Monster HP at 1:1 is a bad trade for the PC.



Better than trading it for nothing because you *didn't* get to punish the monster and it got an OA.  And some strikers get a mad damage bonus for their OA shenanigans, so the mind spike damage is gravy on that.

My point was, there are situations where that triggers more often.  That's all.


Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
I thought you meant you should deliberately trigger OAs to force punishment.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I thought you meant you should deliberately trigger OAs to force punishment.



Not unless you're getting something from it other than "Mind Spike".

But the threat of Mind Spike, which can easily do as much damage as a Striker at-will, means that the OA can be a lose/lose in a larger way than for many other Defenders.  And sometimes people *want* to trigger OAs, or need to.  Or are more willing to take it because the Mind Spike is bigger than most other punishments.  Or even just appreciate the extra damage more.

Point is:  Am playing a Battlemind right now.  Am finding that Mind Spike is, actually, hard to trigger, and I'm okay with that.  When it goes off, it's generally impressive, and the THREAT of it opens up some additional options. 
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
I am doing the Lair Assault this weekend, and decided to go Defender since I'd never played one before.

The rules are you start at level 10, everything is legal, you get one Level 11 magic item, Level 10 magic item, Level 9 magic item and 4200 gp. No more than 2 Level 10 or lower consumables, and you can take worse stuff if you want.
 
From what I read, it seems to be one single, drawn-out, encounter.

I went with this:


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Warren, level 10 Revenant, Battlemind
Psionic Study Option: Persistent Harrier
Choose your Race in Life: Dwarf
Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much (Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much Benefit)
Theme: Werebear  

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10,
CON 22,
DEX 15,
INT 8,
WIS 15,
CHA 10  

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10,
CON 18,
DEX 13,
INT 8,
WIS 13,
CHA 10    

AC: 27
Fort: 23
Ref: 19
Will: 23

HP: 91 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 22  

TRAINED SKILLS Endurance +18, Heal +12, Insight +12, Intimidate +12  
UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +7, Arcana +4, Athletics +5, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +7, History +4, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +4, Stealth +7, Streetwise +5, Thievery +7  

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Werebear Utility: Bear Shape
Revenant Utility: Dark Reaping
Battlemind Feature: Battlemind's Demand
Battlemind Feature: Blurred Step
Battlemind Feature: Mind Spike
Battlemind Feature: Persistent Harrier
Battlemind Attack 1: Conductive Defense
Battlemind Attack 1: Living Fortress
Heal Utility 2: Iron Resurgence
Battlemind Attack 3: Lodestone Lure
Battlemind Attack 5: Beckoning Strike
Battlemind Utility 6: Psionic Ambush
Battlemind Attack 7: Lightning Rush
Battlemind Attack 9: Shattered Time
Battlemind Utility 10: Battle Aspect  

FEATS
Level 1: Dwarven Weapon Training
Level  2: Wrathful Warrior
Level 4: Mark of Storm
Level 6: Harrying Step
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 10: Polearm Momentum  

ITEMS
Lightning Halberd +2 x1
Rushing Cleats x1
Magic Wyvernscale Armor +3 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Amulet of Protection +2 x1
Tempest Whetstone (heroic tier)
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds

====== End ======





Some logic that went into my choices:


1. I took Werebear because I was feat-starved and wanted a decent MBA. Since it is a single encounter, and the level 10 feature means I get all benefits and no drawbacks, I can spend my first turn on a move, Battle Aspect and Living Fortress, followed up by next turn morphing into bear shape. At that point I will have effectively +3 AC, +3 Fortitude, +2 Reflex, +2 Will, Resist 5 all and Teleport 3 for the enitre lair assault (or until I drop), with an effective MBA that marks (+14 vs. AC, 1d8+8 damage and mark)

2. I went Revnant because they don't die easily, and with Superior Will, I can even get a full turn despite being below 0 hp (and with my background, I get a +1 to the saving throw to end the daze).
 
3. I decided to try to force the polearm momentum, which is what ate my feats. The goal is to drop into Beckoning Stance quickly, and create poor options where if my opponents shift away, I teleport next to them (Harrying Step), if they move away, I pull them back, then slide 2 and knock prone. If they attack someone else, I get an OA or Lightning Rush, which with a slde 2 and prone will end most melee attacks and at least bother many ranged attacks (especially with the OA provided by LR, followed by the mark by werebear's MBA which imposes another -2).

4. I went with Tempest Whetstone because I think there will be minions about, and the whetstone can let me quickly dispatch them.             
It's too floppy and limp?
Why would I use a flail instead? My thinking was Reach 2, and +2 damage from DWT, as well as knocking guys prone. I haven't looked at flails at all
Polearm is dropping your AC/Ref because of no shield, and making you put points into Dex which does you little good overall, you're also less accurate compared to the Alhulak which = less damage. Of course, with DWT you could be using a Gouge or Spear ... no idea why you'd pick Halberd. Revenant also makes little sense to me, why wouldn't you want the minor action 2nd wind as a defender? Planning on needing the undying is just planning on failing.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Advantages of flail:
You don't need to spread your ability scores, you can focus on a primary and secondary.
You don't need to have slide 2.
You don't need to spend as many feats (just Flail Expertise, instead of MC + PM + an expertise feat... though fighter MC will probably happen anyway eventually).

Advantages of polearm:
You get both the slide *and* the prone. This can be countered by the flail, but requires losing the feat advantage (MC fighter + dragging flail).
You get very slightly more damage (+0.5 per [W], more on a crit) if you compare the reach weapons.

Either way, you are definitely doing one thing wrong: your past life should be Hobgoblin, and take Hobgoblin Weapon Training instead of Dwarven. Greatspear is the best thing for PM, and Spiked Chain is the best for flail expertise (if you want to keep reach; triple-headed flail + shield is honestly better though), and you get both of them with HWT (plus more damage post-heroic).

EDIT: I did forget a big advantage of PM which is that it works on pushes and on non-melee weapon attacks. I don't think either of those is likely to matter to a battlemind build, since your best powers will likely meet those criteria, but it's worth mentioning.
Thanks for these ideas. Dropping PM and DWT frees up several critical feat slots. Just sone quick points:
1. I preferred PM because it gave the slide and prone, which can negate a melee attack. But as I can choose the slide with flail expertise, it probably isn't worth the feat cost.
2. Keep in mibd this is for a lair assault, and I have no clue what everyone is playing. I value being incredibly hard to kill higher than a second wind as minor action.  
I can't believe I forgot about Hobs WT feat
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I can't believe I forgot about Hobs WT feat

Well, it hasn't made it into any of the online resources besides the e-copy of the magazine it was published in, so that might have something to do with it.

Excuse me, but is the "Ironwrought" theme a suboptimal choice for a battlemind? Because it is not mentioned/rated in the list of themes.
This guide hasn't been updated since HotEC. Yes, Ironwrought is a great theme for battleminds, though battleminds have their own suite of damage resistence features, the L1 power is good for many classes.