Beyond Bodily Brutality: the Basics of Building Battleminds

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@erachima

How does the wording "power" change this? Say a wizard attempts to cast an area burst on an ally. You lightning rush and force the Wizard to change its target to you, which is making a different attack. You get an OA. Now if you sent the wizard flying over to you melee striker, the Wizard is still making the same attack (targeted on you, now its just in a different area), so the Striker doesn't get the OA. (I think). However, say you slid the Wizard far enough away on your OA that he can no longer target you, does this bring up any issues? Again this is how I see it, Mommy and erachima (and many others, they're just the two that seem to be the most involved in this disagreement) have more rules experience than I.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
That's not the relevant difference. The relevant difference is the change from "makes an attack" to "uses a power". The trigger "uses a power" has already passed when the trigger "targets an ally" comes up.



I'm not sure that's entirely clear.  Is "using" the power declaring which power you're using?  Or is it the processing of the power?  I don't think it's defined anywhere.  P. 214-215 of the Rules Compendium has the following sequence for making attacks:

  1. Choose an attack power ...

  2. Choose targets...

  3. Make an attack roll...

  4. Compare the attack roll's result to the target's defense...

  5. [Sort out results of attack, repeat for add'l targets]


"Use a Power" on p.251 doesn't define it.  I'm not sure anything does.

The key question is when do you "use" a power?  Is it a single instant the moment you declare it?  That certainly makes sense, but I don't know that it's clear in the RAW.  I can certainly see the argument that "using" the power is the process of executing the power from declaring it through applying damage and effects.  The second interpretation also makes sense, although it leaves a lot more room for cheese (like the cheese discussed here).  In my game, I'd probably rule it as a definite point in time.
[20:53] [SadisticFish] yeah Llamas convinced me
Yes, the Making an Attack sequence is erachima's source for that, and I do agree that "uses a power" isn't a properly defined term.  It could be the choosing of the power, it could be the resolution (step 5 in the list above)...it is left unspecified.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I understand your reluctance to recommend using aug6's, but does the one-turn dominate from Maze of Mirrors warrant a brief mention?  I'm not sure how many elites and solo's can actually be dominated at that level, but given that there's no save, in a combat without very many enemies a dominate on one of them for even a turn or two seems like it would be a big swing.

Someone please correct me if I'm just misunderstanding the way late epic combats work, since I've only played up to 24 and not much at all past late paragon, but dominating one enemy so I can focus on controlling others out of turn seems like one of the more defendery things I could possibly do, and it's a unique ability among defenders. 
The problem with that high augmentation is it utterly zaps your PP. If you throw out an aug6 you lose out on 3 aug2's. So basically, are 3 aug2 worse than a single, one turn dominate?
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
At level 27? The answer's probably 'yes'. Maybe things changed since MM2, but last I checked at that level every monster was either en elite or a solo. Standards were rare. And against those monsters, I'd say getting what is effectively a two-to-five man disable on an OA or as an opening move is gold. It's a gamble, sure, but not as big as it seems.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
A lot of new solo monsters are extremely resistant to effects which remove their actions (dominate, stun, daze).  A great many of them have fixed-initiative out-of-turn attacks which essentially result in the removal of such effects if they're currently afflicted with them.  Elites don't typically have that though.


Endure Pain is listed as a blue skill power and gives you 5+con resist as a daily interupt.  It lasts until the end of your next turn (i.e., less than 1 round), so probably will only affect 1-2 hits.  1 hit at resist 10, which is probably all you can assume in less than one round, is equivalent to 3.3 hits at resist 3.

My concern with Oaken Resilience is that it discourages monsters from attacking you at a point in the game when you're least likely to have the tools required to be sticky.  Endure Pain doesn't have the same problem, since it triggers on a decision to have attacked you already, and (as you point out) doesn't last very long.  This is going to depend on your DM, obviously, but I am probably being too hard on it.


I see what you're saying.  Endure pain however eats up your immediate action, making you unable to defend for the rest of the round.  Both powers should protect from around 1 hits worth of damage in an encounter. 

Low heroic is also the level in which you're least able to take more punishment than the squishies as well.  Your HP are similar, and AC frequently isn't terribly different either.   Of course, you do have more surges than the squishies, but number of surges is rarely an issue for con-based defenders. 

You rate it as purple.  Langeweile rated it as blue.  I think it's probably black.

If it gets a better rating, it should be to black. It really isn't all that useful even at heroic, since you could take the THP Endurance power instead.



The THP endurance power Inspiring Fortitude (which is called Invigorating Presence in the guide for some reason) costs a standard action, your second wind, and you gain no thp from it. 

Endure Pain is listed as a blue skill power and gives you 5+con resist as a daily interupt.  It lasts until the end of your next turn (i.e., less than 1 round), so probably will only affect 1-2 hits.  1 hit at resist 10, which is probably all you can assume in less than one round, is equivalent to 3.3 hits at resist 3.



It also protects your whole party - which is liable to be worth more than Resist 3 on you, for multiple reasons. First, your defenses are going to be high, except for possibly your Reflexes, so there's already a reduced chance of getting hit. Second, you have other resistance options - the WIS Lv. 1 At-Will comes to mind here, in particular. Third...why do you need extra durability? You're not running out of Healing Surges unless you're funneling them into an item. When I look at that power, what I think to myself is "Man, I don't know. I already have 33 base HP, 13 surges, and each of them is worth 12 HP so I've got about 188 HP to throw around. Do I really need to preserve it?". Even if your surge values are at the usual 8, you have 150 HP. Just how badly do enemies have to hammer you to drain your full pool, to the point you might need insulation?



Inspiring Fortitude is better.  I never said it wasn't.  That wasn't my point however.

Not all battleminds take the resistance at-will, for example the power sucks for charisma battleminds. 

You're using a dragonborn to argue about surge use in general for battleminds at level 2?   An average battlemind will have a surge value around 8.  

At any rate, my point was that con-based defenders, at least in LFR, rarely run out of surges unless they're playing stupidly or tanked their defenses.  What is important is the amount of surges you can spend and need to spend during an encounter.  If your leader blows their heals early, and you've second winded, you're pretty well out of luck as far as healing goes.  For example, the last time I played (although not a battlemind) both my defender and the other defender had an encounter in which we had 1-5 hp left at the end, and he dropped twice and I dropped once in the encounter.  Resistance of any kind would have been awesome.     

Opportunity Attack isn't triggered by an enemy making an attack, it's triggered by an enemy "using" a power. You use your power when you expend your action (and the power, if it has limited uses), prior to declaring targets, and as a result, your OA chance has already passed by the time Lightning Rush's trigger comes onilne.



"Opportunity attacks are triggered by an enemy leaving a square adjacent to you or by an adjacent enemy making a ranged attack or an area attack."



Dunno where you dug up that one, but the trigger for Opportunity Attack is currently defined by

"Trigger: An enemy that you can see either leaves a square adjacent to you or uses a ranged or area power while adjacent to you." (HotFL 27)

Nothing about making attacks.



From the Online Compendium under the definition of what an opportunity action is. They use make and use interchangeably even in Essentials as well- example:
Rules Compendium p 247: "If he is still adjacent to an enemy when he makes the ranged attack, he provokes an opportunity attack again."

Not at all sure how you think the difference between uses and make is relevant in any case. If you're next to the enemy before it makes the attack, it is in the process of using a ranged power while next to you because it hasn't completed using the power.

And there is no line about one needing to be present for the entire use of a power, merely that someone uses a power. And they are. 
From the Online Compendium under the definition of what an opportunity action is. They use make and use interchangeably even in Essentials as well- example:
Rules Compendium p 247: "If he is still adjacent to an enemy when he makes the ranged attack, he provokes an opportunity attack again."

Not at all sure how you think the difference between uses and make is relevant in any case. If you're next to the enemy before it makes the attack, it is in the process of using a ranged power while next to you because it hasn't completed using the power.

And there is no line about one needing to be present for the entire use of a power, merely that someone uses a power. And they are. 

Quoting the Compendium, which is not a rules source, and an example of a rule, which is not a rule, is not a good way of supporting your argument. Just saying.

The rule is if someone Readies an action that would provoke an OA, they provoke when it goes off and when they ready it. But that doesn't in any way disagree with the text of the OA power on what does, and doesn't, provoke. "Use" is, I concede, not well defined. But, for instance, in the power rules it says you expend a power when you use it. Given how several powers that allow you to not expend it are phrased in terms of timing, it'd make sense that you use a power when you choose it (step 1 of the attack process).

I don't think your answer is as RAW as you're making it out to be.

Erachima, my sense is that you are parsing this too much.


In everyday life taking a single step while walking is actually composed of hundreds of smaller actions that result in a step. However it’s still just one step. Your argument effectively seems to be that only the first of the smaller actions is actually a “step” in my example.



Erachima, my sense is that you are parsing this too much.


In everyday life taking a single step while walking is actually composed of hundreds of smaller actions that result in a step. However it’s still just one step. Your argument effectively seems to be that only the first of the smaller actions is actually a “step” in my example.





This. To put it in D&D terms, Lightning Rush is a Greater Celerity. Greater Celerity>everything else. Thus, OA. Interrupts are awesome like that. They go first. If they alter something, then you go from there. Otherwise you could kill someone and they'd get a final attack.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
At level 27? The answer's probably 'yes'. Maybe things changed since MM2, but last I checked at that level every monster was either en elite or a solo. Standards were rare. And against those monsters, I'd say getting what is effectively a two-to-five man disable on an OA or as an opening move is gold. It's a gamble, sure, but not as big as it seems.


A lot of new solos will simply outright ignore it and so it's a big gamble if it will even work in the first place. Monster Design has somewhat got over this issue; so it's nowhere near as effective anymore. Not to mention the punishment some creatures will inflict on you for doing it by automatically dominating you instead

On the Lightning Rush argument, I find myself agreeing with Alcestis and erachima here. The OA trigger is when an enemy adjacent to you uses a ranged or area power, when the trigger occurs you are not adjacent and so you get no OA. I agree though that the definition of "Use" is really ambiguous and could mean a lot of things, but I would say that the OA wording is clear enough that if you weren't adjacent initially you don't get it.
I'm not keen on the "I retroactively go before you" approach.  An interrupt does just that: it interrupts.  It doesn't roll back the clock.  You begin the action.  I interrupt you taking the action, and complete the interact before you complete the action.

Not that that has any bearing on the meaning of "use"; I'm just saying the whole "I'm there before you start the action that triggered me getting there" thing is goofy unless there's a new time-traveling battlemind build I'm not familiar with.
[20:53] [SadisticFish] yeah Llamas convinced me






Not that that has any bearing on the meaning of "use"; I'm just saying the whole "I'm there before you start the action that triggered me getting there" thing is goofy unless there's a new time-traveling battlemind build I'm not familiar with.

The bugbear to me is that the OA trigger says you need to be adjacent when the power is used. By the time you are reacting to that with Lightning Rush, the power is already being used and the trigger for the OA (being adjacent when it is used) has passed. I personally wouldn't allow an OA on the attack with Lightning Rush.

At the same time it's incredibly valid to argue you would still get the OA. It's definitely not clear by RAW and probably needs a FAQ.

Erachima, my sense is that you are parsing this too much.


In everyday life taking a single step while walking is actually composed of hundreds of smaller actions that result in a step. However it’s still just one step. Your argument effectively seems to be that only the first of the smaller actions is actually a “step” in my example.





In most practical play situations, the exact order of things is not particularly relevant.

In this case, the exact breakdown matters significantly, so we will discuss the exact breakdown, and you don't get to zen your way out of it just because you dislike the answer that breakdown leads to.

Armisael: Oh wow, you're right, I'd totally forgotten to account for 4e's "greater celerity" rules! Oh wait.



If an action declared after another action can alter the first action's course, then it can alter the action's course. This is prety much ironclad. Unless you believe every monster and player automatically has the Ferocity racial feature, then I don't see how this is disputable.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I'm a bit confused on the Lightning Rush argument.  It's an immediate interrupt that is triggered by an enemy targeting an ally with an attack.  Targeting occurs before the ranged or area attack actually occurs, and the interrupt is occurring before the targeting finishes (since it is an interrupt).

So, as I'm reading it, here is the sequence of events:
* Enemy targets your ally with a ranged or area attack.  This locks the enemy into the action.
* Lightning Rush occurs as an interrupt.  This occurs before the triggering action of targeting is finished (though the enemy is locked into targeting that ally).  You move next to the enemy and make your interrupt attack.
* Enemy makes the ranged or area attack.  The Opportunity Attack is triggered and occurs first, per the rules on OAs.
* Enemy completes the attack if still able to do so.

I don't see anything in the rules preventing two different triggers from occurring.  An immediate interrupt and an OA are similar, but you can do both in the same round, and both occur before the triggering action.  Because the action the enemy uses can be cancelled if the interrupt/OA invalidate the action, it occurs before the power is used.  It may seem odd, but that's the way it is written.
Fedifensor: That's not the point under contention. The triggering condition of Opportunity Attack was changed in the Rules Compendium/Heroes of the Fallen Lands releases. Making an attack doesn't trigger OAs anymore, "using a ranged or area power" does. And you "use" the power at the point where you expend the action and power, prior to targeting.

Really?  Where does the Rules Compendium say a power is used before any aspects of the power are determined (targeting, attack rolls, etc)?

It sounds to me that you're reading the power based on what you want to have happen, rather than what is stated in the Rules Compendium.


That's the issue here. For most purposes, it doesn't make a difference, but it does make a difference in the case of Lightning Rush and in the extreme corner case of creatures with ways of coming back from dead using ranged, limited-use powers (in that they don't expend them because your OA kills them prior to using the power).

Based on what is in the Rules Compendium, I could read immediate interrupts as the power doesn't get used if it is invalidated.  After all, it says the triggering action is lost, not the power itself.

Yes, the rules are somewhat unclear.  But barring any clear language stating that using a power occurs before anything about the power is determined, I'd go with how it has worked before as long as the new wording doesn't specifically prohibit that method.  Game designers are only human, and parsing words becaues you don't like how something works is just going to bog things down.
Arimasael: Events are the currency here, not actions. Using is a distinct event preceeding targeting is a distinct event preceeding attacking is a distinct event preceeding dealing damage. An interrupt can change the course of the event it interrupts and future events, but nothing prior. (A reaction can change the course of future events, but not the event it reacts to or anything prior.)

Fedifensor: That's not the point under contention. The triggering condition of Opportunity Attack was changed in the Rules Compendium/Heroes of the Fallen Lands releases. Making an attack doesn't trigger OAs anymore, "using a ranged or area power" does. And you "use" the power at the point where you expend the action and power, prior to targeting. That's the issue here. For most purposes, it doesn't make a difference, but it does make a difference in the case of Lightning Rush and in the extreme corner case of creatures with ways of coming back from dead using ranged, limited-use powers (in that they don't expend them because your OA kills them prior to using the power).



Using is not a distinct event, unless you consider it an actual tactic to burn off powers by saying "I use X power". Do you? Otherwise, the use is...well, the use. The execution of the power.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Fedifensor: That's not the point under contention. The triggering condition of Opportunity Attack was changed in the Rules Compendium/Heroes of the Fallen Lands releases. Making an attack doesn't trigger OAs anymore, "using a ranged or area power" does. And you "use" the power at the point where you expend the action and power, prior to targeting. That's the issue here. For most purposes, it doesn't make a difference, but it does make a difference in the case of Lightning Rush and in the extreme corner case of creatures with ways of coming back from dead using ranged, limited-use powers (in that they don't expend them because your OA kills them prior to using the power).


Where's your rules cite for this?  Use = expend action/power, and action/power is expended prior to targeting.  That's two different things you're stating as fact, when as far as I can tell they're both just your interpretation.  You're the only person in this entire conversation who's unwilling to admit that it's a huge gray area... but you haven't cited anything.

Where's the rules cite? 
[20:53] [SadisticFish] yeah Llamas convinced me
Just chiming in to say I'm quite pleased with the Handbook so far, Dedekine, though I feel that Brutal Barrage with no investment at least merits a Black, because of the crit-fishing opportunities (which you can exploit for more than just damage), plus prone makes you stickier. Apart from that, it's all good. Keep up the good work!

@WEContact: Hey, I remember that movie! Used to love it as a kid.
I've updated the guide to include most of the comments and suggestions that have been included so far.  If a change hasn't gone into the guide yet, I've either missed it or don't entirely agree.  Either way, post it again, and I'll either apologise or argue! Wink 

The Brutal Barrage rating has been re-done, both to try to make my feelings on it more clear, and to include a section on how to optimise it.  Hopefully this makes it work a little better. 
The Brutal Barrage rating has been re-done, both to try to make my feelings on it more clear, and to include a section on how to optimise it.  Hopefully this makes it work a little better. 



Super, thank you.

Really like how the guide is coming along.

I've updated the guide to include most of the comments and suggestions that have been included so far.  If a change hasn't gone into the guide yet, I've either missed it or don't entirely agree.  Either way, post it again, and I'll either apologise or argue!  



What's the reasoning behind making Iron Tomb red? You might not be able to easily hurt the target as a party once you do it, but it is auto-stun. Great for auto-taking out the elite controller for a round while the party then gets to focus fire on other targets.

Also, Evermeet Warlock is great for all the OA opportunities - as well, as you'll usually be invisible to your mark, you won't provoke when you do Lightning Rush. 

What's the reasoning behind making Iron Tomb red? You might not be able to easily hurt the target as a party once you do it, but it is auto-stun. Great for auto-taking out the elite controller for a round while the party then gets to focus fire on other targets.

Also, Evermeet Warlock is great for all the OA opportunities - as well, as you'll usually be invisible to your mark, you won't provoke when you do Lightning Rush. 

Sorry, yours was one of the posts I missed! Iron Tomb was a mistake in rating in retrospect; I was too hung up on the damage immunity.  Your point is well-taken, even if you can't directly take advantage of the target while it's stunned, stunned itself is worth it.  I've improved its rating.

I've also included Evermeet Warlock now, and improved Inconstant Location to blue.

Didn't see it under your BB optimization, don't forget monk MC and soaring blade can be used to add damage to BB as can the Genasi feat shocking flame.  In fact Genasi (Stormsoul) or Revenant (Genasi) plus genasi soul can be used to add lightning keyword to all attack to combine with the Lyrandar Windrider without a lightning weapon.
I've updated the guide to include most of the comments and suggestions that have been included so far.  If a change hasn't gone into the guide yet, I've either missed it or don't entirely agree.

Inspiring Fortitude (L2 skill power) is still mis-named as Invigorating Presence (Warden L16 utility power).

In your notes on Lightning Rush, you say "You will need to build your battlemind around Lightning Rush to make best use of it, but it is well worth doing so."

What does that entail? Are there feats/powers/items that I should be considering to get the most use out of it? Or is it a matter of battlefield tactics? Party synergy/tactics?  
This is more of a footnote than anything, but Conlocks hybrid very well with battleminds.
Thank you for expanding the Brutal Barrage discussion to include optimization. Things to add to the Brutal Barrage optimization list:

1) As noted above by Taenia, the Monk PP Soaring Blade lets you add your Con mod of [your choice of elemental] damage to each hit. Unfortunately, the rest of the PP is not particularly useful.

2) The Swordmage PP Malec-Keth Janissary feature Primordial Blade (L16) adds 1d4 [your choice of elemental] damage to every hit. As this is a damage roll, I think that this lets all of your normal damage bonuses (e.g. Iron Armbands, your magic weapon enhancement bonus, Weapon Focus, etc.) apply, and thus all of the standard damage optimization tricks become available again.

Also, the additional damage is fire/cold/lightning/thunder, which (I think) lets you do your Frostcheese/Mark of Storm/[insert Fire combo here] without needing a Fire/Frost/Lightning weapon.

While the level 11 features of the PP don't do much for you, the AP feature, which lets you ignore resistances) can come in handy. And though it is unfortunate that the powers key off of Int, they all include teleportation as effects, so they can be useful in rescuing your teammates even if you don't have a very reasonable chance of hitting with them.
Cant say I agree with Dragonborn being dark blue instead of sky blue.

Double stat puts them at dark blue already. The combination of +Con to surge value, +1 to hit while bloodied and Dragonbreath is amazing on a defender. Yes, Dragonbreath feats make up the most of their feat pool, but I dont see a double stat race with arguably the best array of racial abilities as a "second best" choice. They also have access to some very unique PP options (Honorable Blade + Thundering Breath giving them a *second* means to get the thunder keyword on their bursts, besides Thundering Force, for example).

Just my take.
That's absolutely true. Nobody pulls off the HBO tricks off better than a dragonborn on the CHA side of things, and then they get that absolutely incredible bonus to surges on top. Getting a good, easily augmentable power in dragonbreath and a very usable bonus to attack rolls is just icing.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Great Guide!  I especially appreciate the concise section on battlemind strategies.

Two things - I think you missed reviewing the epic feat Strength Through Challenge.  Also, in either the section on multi-classing or under the description for Intellect Snap (or both), I would mention the synergy with that power and the Fighter feat Dizzying Mace.
Great Guide!  I especially appreciate the concise section on battlemind strategies.

Two things - I think you missed reviewing the epic feat Strength Through Challenge.  Also, in either the section on multi-classing or under the description for Intellect Snap (or both), I would mention the synergy with that power and the Fighter feat Dizzying Mace.




That feat is pretty awesome as long as you can find a solution to the OA problem that doesn't involve HBO (half-elf, tiefling with Wrath of the Crimson Legion or whatever). Otherwise, heavy blades are pretty much mandatory.
Great Guide!  I especially appreciate the concise section on battlemind strategies.

Two things - I think you missed reviewing the epic feat Strength Through Challenge.  Also, in either the section on multi-classing or under the description for Intellect Snap (or both), I would mention the synergy with that power and the Fighter feat Dizzying Mace.




That feat is pretty awesome as long as you can find a solution to the OA problem that doesn't involve HBO (half-elf, tiefling with Wrath of the Crimson Legion or whatever). Otherwise, heavy blades are pretty much mandatory.


I was concerned about the OA problem when restricting myself to a Mace and mc Fighter (i.e. no hbo, sudden roots, etc.).  On the other hand, I'm really not concerned about the enemy I hit with Intellect Snap, since it will be dazed with a sizeable attack penalty.  I suppose the problem really only appears when I have a second marked target adjacent to me that tries to move away - then even with melee training I have only a weak OA.  But maybe that's a price worth paying for Intellect Snap + Dizzying Mace.  Not sure though . . .

Edit - I guess the question is this - if I use Intellect Snap + Dizzying Mace as my standard attack, and have Lightning Rush as my immediate at-will, then will it really be much of a problem if I only have a weak OA (as in just Melee Training)?
The real issue with a weak OA is that you now have to defend through only your standard action and maaaaaaybe Lightning Rush. This makes doing your job...problematic to say the least.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
The real issue with a weak OA is that you now have to defend through only your standard action and maaaaaaybe Lightning Rush. This makes doing your job...problematic to say the least.


I was just editing my post when you wrote this.  I was assuming the use of Lightning Rush to punish those who move away (and Harrying Step to follow those who shift away).  I would still be relying on just Melee Training for the OA.
Relying on Lightning Rush is kind of like relying on your top level spell slots in 3.X if you use it for pure defending. The going is good for a while, and then your reserves run out and a really bad day begins. If you want to use Lightning Rush, you're practically committing to employing only unaugmented powers for your standards, Augment 1s at most. This means you're a fighter with no encounter powers AND no Combat Superiority AND no awesome stances. You need some extra tricks somewhere, be it from a Mark of the Storm, a Staggering Weapon to make every OA an attack that chucks the enemy out of the fight for a round...something has to be added to them if it isn't stupid high damage.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
In fairness, lightning rush is a pretty damn fine use of your turn most of the time anyway.
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