Dragon 397 - Class Compendium: The Warlord

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DnDi_Large.pngDragon 397
Class Compendium: The Warlord


Get the most up-to-date version of the warlord—the marshall—right here, right now!

Talk about this Article here.

What feats?

On a more positive note, at least it mentions the Marshal can take warlord powers.
Very happy that almost nothing got changed. Few Updates and some puff in the fluff.

Mr. Warlord got a new haircut and shiny new shoes and now can go clubbin' on wednesday nights.

Thank you WoTC for all of what you didn't do to it.
What feats?

On a more positive note, at least it mentions the Marshal can take warlord powers.


Um, why on earth wouldn't it be able to? It is the frigging warlord. Or were you worried it would get a build that murders out the encounter and daily powers? Thankfully that was never the intent.

It does make me acknowledge canceling the CC was a good idea: It was pretty much nothing new and would have had howls for blood of "IT'S JUST 4.5!!!" even more. Releasing this as a free update is pretty awesome.
What feats?

On a more positive note, at least it mentions the Marshal can take warlord powers.


Feats come later. Like Aegeri said, of course it can take Warlord powers. I also like that is free.Money mouth
I'm newer so bare with me, but is there really a difference between the Warlord and a Marshal?  It looks like it just got some errata done to it.  Even the differences between the mage and the wizard were more noticable than this.  I like what can be done with subclasses (or whatever you want to call them), but it doesn't looke like much was done here.
I'm newer so bare with me, but is there really a difference between the Warlord and a Marshal?  It looks like it just got some errata done to it.  Even the differences between the mage and the wizard were more noticable than this.  I like what can be done with subclasses (or whatever you want to call them), but it doesn't looke like much was done here.



It was detailed in a fighter preview for the originaly book.

The Marshal is the old warlord class.

The Warlord is now an Archetype, who's only class is Mashal.

The Fighter Archetype, as previewed, has the following classes:

Weaponmaster (the original fighter)

Knight

Slayer.

So, instead of the Knight/Slayer being weird 'builds' of the fighter that have nothing in common but feats/utiltities, they are all classes under the hat of the "Fighter"i dea.
I'm newer so bare with me, but is there really a difference between the Warlord and a Marshal?  It looks like it just got some errata done to it.  Even the differences between the mage and the wizard were more noticable than this.  I like what can be done with subclasses (or whatever you want to call them), but it doesn't looke like much was done here.


That's because the PHB1 Warlord is now called the Marshal. They are the same thing for all intents and purposes. It's not a new Subclass, but it is a subclass on the newly minted Warlord Class tree. 
I'm newer so bare with me, but is there really a difference between the Warlord and a Marshal?  It looks like it just got some errata done to it.  Even the differences between the mage and the wizard were more noticable than this.  I like what can be done with subclasses (or whatever you want to call them), but it doesn't looke like much was done here.


And thank goodness for that!

The Warlord works just fine overall.  This is basically a reprint with clarifications, flavor text, and errata.

-O
I think I get it now.  Seems unnecessary, but I get what they're trying to do.  I can also see why this book was cancelled.

Ok so let me see if I have this straight, we have:

Fighter

The Weaponmaster encompassing the Guardian, Greatweapon, Arena, Battlerager, and Brawling Builds

The Knight

The Slayer

Ranger

The Ranger encompassing the Two Bladed, Archer, Beastmaster, Hunter, and Marauder builds

The Hunter (Contoller version)

The Scout

More class along the same lines...


Is this about right?  If so, Holy Crap, I thought there were a lot of class choices in Rift.

Ramius

58074418 wrote:
I strive for the freedom from expectations so many enjoy here; I fear I have a long journey to that level of spiritual creaminess.

Ok so let me see if I have this straight, we have:

Fighter

The Weaponmaster encompassing the Guardian, Greatweapon, Arena, Battlerager, and Brawling Builds

The Knight

The Slayer

Ranger

The Ranger encompassing the Two Bladed, Archer, Beastmaster, Hunter, and Marauder builds

The Hunter (Contoller version)

The Scout

More class along the same lines...


Is this about right?  If so, Holy Crap, I thought there were a lot of class choices in Rift.

Ramius



Pretty much. Though I'm hoping that they split the Beastmaster off into it's own Ranger Subclass, if only for the purposes of overhauling.
still funny that the battle captain 16 feature has a bonus to attack that scales with INT MOD, which.... seems rather crazy.
First:   'Marshal?' Really? We have to bring that up?

Aside from that, like the 'Weaponmaster' preview (exactly like that preview, really, including getting a dumb name), there are few substantive changes, all available (happily) in a separate update file, they include:

- Tactical presence got 'clarified' (meaning it's official, not debateable), to yes, only affect ONE attack in the triggering standard action.  Rangers, Wizards, and other multi-attackers are no longer the Taclord's best friends.  Given that, it could have updated the bonus to hit equal to INT bonus.  Seriously, it's just one attack.  :shrug:

- Commander's Strike OTOH, less nerfing than expected. Just the obvious one: it's explicitly a Free Action for the ally. Not made a power bonus or anything. There are a number of powers that recieve a 'free action' clarification, which is fine.

- Own the Battlefield not sliding into hindering terrain makes sense. Reducing it to close burst 5 doesn't, not at that level.  Changes it from a power you might use early to model 'tactical positioning' to one you'll only  use when your party is mixing it up... making it, what, really?  The fluff text is not helpful, it makes it sound like the warlord is somehow giving his enemies commands.  Could've been better executed.

- OK, Stir the Hornet's Nest probably deserved it.

The other powers changed weren't egregious nerfs or entirely uncalled for.  Some things - like Knight's Move - could have been updated to be close burst/single-ally, instead of OA-provoking 'Ranged.'   But, WotC tends to errata only things that are too powerful or very unclear (or wizard encounter powers).

We'll see how the Weaponmaster and Marshal stack up to the re-toothed Warlock rumored to be coming, and the already errata'd-to-be-more-powerful Wizard, who is also receiving 6 new builds in Essentials+.


Finally, one critical question. Is this Warlord considered 'Essentials +' content? Will there be a 'Marshal' (hrrmph) pre-gen at the next season of D&D Encounters? Will it even be allowed there?

 

 

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The Warlord is now an Archetype, who's only class is Mashal.

'Archetype?'  Are you just making that up for clarity (if so, good job, it's helpful), or is it official new terminology?

 

 

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The Warlord is now an Archetype, who's only class is Mashal.

'Archetype?'  Are you just making that up for clarity (if so, good job, it's helpful), or is it official new terminology?



It's not official, though I had used the same word in describing Essentials back in the first Heroes of Shadow thread before it got shut down.
Yeah, I checked the article, and it never uses Archetype - and also never uses /build/ (well, it does, in a bit of fluff text somwhere but not in that context).  It very clearly refers to both the Warlord and Marshal as a class.

So you're a Warlord (Class) Marshal (Class) with Inspiring Presence (Class Feature).  Rather than an Inspiring (Build) Warlord (Class).  

 

 

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As I've been saying for months.
Oh boy! You mean thanks to essentials players all our favorite classes can get nerfed to Hell and back!? Sweet! Thanks Wizards!
So wait, I heard about the Class Compendium but there was a preview to changes with the Fighter being called Weaponmaster??? Can I get a link to see this if there is one still around or is there going to be an official thing about it soon?
I am curious if there might be any other Warlord sub-classes in the future that are distinct from the Marshal.  The article starts out "Warlords are bold captains, chieftains, nobles, or marshals who lead their parties in battle."  While I doubt there will be Captian, Chieftan, and Noble sub-classes (or really any other subclasses at all), it still makes me curious.  

I'm guessing that WotC really just felt that Warlord was a great class to have in the mix and wanted to present it to players who came into the game through Essentials.  And I agree with that sentiment.
I am curious if there might be any other Warlord sub-classes in the future that are distinct from the Marshal.  The article starts out "Warlords are bold captains, chieftains, nobles, or marshals who lead their parties in battle."  While I doubt there will be Captian, Chieftan, and Noble sub-classes (or really any subclasses at all), it still makes me curious.  

I'm guessing that WotC really just felt that Warlord was a great class to have in the mix and wanted to present it to players who came into the game through Essentials.  And I agree with that sentiment.


There is most definitely the possibility for new Warlord subclasses in the future. Though my evidence is minimal, I believe that seeing as they renamed this Warlord, they may have the intention of something new.
I was actually expecting the skirmishing warlord to get described as a separate archetype, with the differences in armor and weapon options.

Are all these compendium articles going to focus on the Player's Handbook content specifically, or is there another blog post or article mentioning how the other powers and builds of a class were going to be fit into this compendium, if they were? I feel like I missed a memo on this article design.

Still, I do think I might use this article next time I try to start a game with my brother. He liked the warlord class, and absolutely loved the fluff given in the Forgotten Kingdoms handbook, so this might be a sandwich of PB & J to him! 
I was actually expecting the skirmishing warlord to get described as a separate archetype, with the differences in armor and weapon options.

Are all these compendium articles going to focus on the Player's Handbook content specifically, or is there another blog post or article mentioning how the other powers and builds of a class were going to be fit into this compendium, if they were? I feel like I missed a memo on this article design.

Still, I do think I might use this article next time I try to start a game with my brother. He liked the warlord class, and absolutely loved the fluff given in the Forgotten Kingdoms handbook, so this might be a sandwich of PB & J to him! 


I think that in the description for the now defunct product all the stuff was supposed to be in it said that it was just PHB1 classes. Assumably the intention was a series of products that would update all the older classes and their options to the new format. Now it looks like they'll be giving us all that tasty material for zilch, which it really only makes sense to do. That decision has prompted me to do the Dance of Joy!



I'm actually a bit worried about this.  Class Compendium being given out for free means that they've abandoned the Player's Handbook 1, and decided they don't need to sell any copies of it anymore.  That is, if you add the NOW FOR FREE Class Compendium articles with one or both of the Player's Essentials books, you get an updated Player's Handbook, only lacking in a few feats (probably mostly the ones that have become useless due to better versions out there in later products) and Epic Destiny choices.

I mean, practically free Player's Handbook?  Yeah, that's cool, but it means that they don't care about that book anymore.  It's not making enough sales for them to warrant giving full updated content from it with new flavor only to subscribers.  I would have been happy if only the Addendum was given for free (like a Rules Updates), while keeping the actual article for us subscribers. 

Oh well.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

I'm actually a bit worried about this.  Class Compendium being given out for free means that they've abandoned the Player's Handbook 1, and decided they don't need to sell any copies of it anymore.  That is, if you add the NOW FOR FREE Class Compendium articles with one or both of the Player's Essentials books, you get an updated Player's Handbook, only lacking in a few feats (probably mostly the ones that have become useless due to better versions out there in later products) and Epic Destiny choices.

I mean, practically free Player's Handbook?  Yeah, that's cool, but it means that they don't care about that book anymore.  It's not making enough sales for them to warrant giving full updated content from it with new flavor only to subscribers.  I would have been happy if only the Addendum was given for free (like a Rules Updates), while keeping the actual article for us subscribers. 

Oh well.


The classic assumption is that most players either have the PHB1 or the "Heroes of" books for the basic players rules. So giving this stuff away is the lesser of three less than optimal choices. They could have gone ahead and actually printed what would have been a revised edition PHB1 and charged people again for it. Put the actual article behind the paywall, with just the errata available for free. Or what they did, which although it does mean that purchases of the PHB will go down it has little effect anyway do to diminishing returns on the book anyway. Face it people really only buy one copy at a time anyway, if you already have one Wizards can't get your money for it again so it doesn't matter much.
I'm actually a bit worried about this.  Class Compendium being given out for free means that they've abandoned the Player's Handbook 1, and decided they don't need to sell any copies of it anymore.  That is, if you add the NOW FOR FREE Class Compendium articles with one or both of the Player's Essentials books, you get an updated Player's Handbook, only lacking in a few feats (probably mostly the ones that have become useless due to better versions out there in later products) and Epic Destiny choices.



Except, while the pdf write-up is nice, everything in the PHB was already part of DDI via the Compendium. Along with, you know, every other class in the game.

It is a disappointing article to me, as a DDI subscriber... simply because it is really just the usual updates that I expect to get for free. As it is, it means it is simply more DDI content that isn't actually providing anything useful. 

As a book, I think the Class Compendium had a purpose - it would have been, essentially, an updated PHB (for old players who want that) while providing a more accessible version of those classes (due to format) for new players who joined with Essentials.

But as part of DDI, where we already have the warlord in the DDI Compendium, and we are already used to getting updates for free... it is pretty much useless content.

I'll be interested when they post the revised multiclassing stuff which allows interaction with Essentials. It sounds like that might be in April, since he mentions that is when Class Compendium feats will be seen. I'm much more interested in stuff from the other cancelled books, since that would actually feature new content.

But worrying about this having any impact on the PHB1 is basically silly. The PHB1 has already been sold to most who need it. New players can buy it, or can buy in via Heroes of the Fallen Places - either is a valid approach. Or they can just snag the Rules Compendium and a DDI subscription, and have everything they need via that.

Either way, the existence of articles like this won't change those options. It will mean, yes, that there is a bit more errata for the PHB - though, looking at it, nothing major. I do hope this errata shows up where the normal updates are found, in the more robust format, rather than as the quick and dirty description of changes we see here.

Other than that, I don't see anything to worry about - aside, of course, from them now releasing these articles as Dragon subscriber content instead of, say, actually releasing new content.
I'm actually a bit worried about this.  Class Compendium being given out for free means that they've abandoned the Player's Handbook 1, and decided they don't need to sell any copies of it anymore.  That is, if you add the NOW FOR FREE Class Compendium articles with one or both of the Player's Essentials books, you get an updated Player's Handbook, only lacking in a few feats (probably mostly the ones that have become useless due to better versions out there in later products) and Epic Destiny choices.



Except, while the pdf write-up is nice, everything in the PHB was already part of DDI via the Compendium. Along with, you know, every other class in the game.

It is a disappointing article to me, as a DDI subscriber... simply because it is really just the usual updates that I expect to get for free. As it is, it means it is simply more DDI content that isn't actually providing anything useful. 

As a book, I think the Class Compendium had a purpose - it would have been, essentially, an updated PHB (for old players who want that) while providing a more accessible version of those classes (due to format) for new players who joined with Essentials.

But as part of DDI, where we already have the warlord in the DDI Compendium, and we are already used to getting updates for free... it is pretty much useless content.

I'll be interested when they post the revised multiclassing stuff which allows interaction with Essentials. It sounds like that might be in April, since he mentions that is when Class Compendium feats will be seen. I'm much more interested in stuff from the other cancelled books, since that would actually feature new content.

But worrying about this having any impact on the PHB1 is basically silly. The PHB1 has already been sold to most who need it. New players can buy it, or can buy in via Heroes of the Fallen Places - either is a valid approach. Or they can just snag the Rules Compendium and a DDI subscription, and have everything they need via that.

Either way, the existence of articles like this won't change those options. It will mean, yes, that there is a bit more errata for the PHB - though, looking at it, nothing major. I do hope this errata shows up where the normal updates are found, in the more robust format, rather than as the quick and dirty description of changes we see here.

Other than that, I don't see anything to worry about - aside, of course, from them now releasing these articles as Dragon subscriber content instead of, say, actually releasing new content.


Well yes, the class compendium stuff is free for everyone. However, the material from the other cancelled products will probably actually be DDI content. I don't really seeing the CC content taking up space in Dragon, particularly considering they've already cut back on the amount of material that comes out. It'd be different if they still compiled the issues, but really now it's not even a magazine. It's a tiered content service, free stuff and subscription stuff. Though they shouldn't have marked as subscription only, that was a major foible.
Though they shouldn't have marked as subscription only, that was a major foible.



Yeah I was confused by that.  So I take it that the article is actually free, just mis-labeled?  I certainly hope it is free; Warlords for all!

But worrying about this having any impact on the PHB1 is basically silly. The PHB1 has already been sold to most who need it. New players can buy it, or can buy in via Heroes of the Fallen Places - either is a valid approach.  



Heroes of the Fallen Places = Win

It's definitenly free... I'm no longer a subscriber and not logged in on the main wizards site, just in the forums, and downloaded the full article just fine.
Yup, it's free as the wind blows. Let's hope they continue giving it to us, because otherwise it'd be just silly.
I think I am confused.

So is my Level 10 Inspiring Warlord no longer an Inspiring Warlord? What do I call him now?

What is the real purpose of these name changes? As in, what mechanics effects do they have on my game?

I am missing something here. Any help would be appreciated.
By defining the PHB Warlord as a "Marshal", they can define other types of Warlords in the future as [Something else]. It's mainly cosmetic for now. Keep playing your Inspiring Warlord as-is (other than errata if you're into it).

So you're a Warlord (Class) Marshal (Class) with Inspiring Presence (Class Feature).  Rather than an Inspiring (Build) Warlord (Class).

The Blackguard Design/Development article states that the Blackguard is a subclass of the Paladin class. I dunno if R. Schwalb's usage is official, but because he now writes 99.9% of anything produced by WotC is in cahoots with the designers, I think it's a good guide. The fact that we can have this discussion means something in itself, though.

You can be a Mul (Dwarf) (Race) - Dune Trader (Theme) - Inspiring Prescence (Build) - Marshal (Subclass) - Warlord (Class) with the Archer Warlord Class Feature. Classic build. [Cough]

Oh boy! You mean thanks to essentials players all our favorite classes can get nerfed to Hell and back!? Sweet! Thanks Wizards!

"Nerfed to Hell and back?" The Marshal/Warlord hasn't even been nerfed to Council Bluffs.

D&DNext: HTFU Edition
By defining the PHB Warlord as a "Marshal", they can define other types of Warlords in the future as [Something else]. It's mainly cosmetic for now. Keep playing your Inspiring Warlord as-is (other than errata if you're into it).

So you're a Warlord (Class) Marshal (Class) with Inspiring Presence (Class Feature).  Rather than an Inspiring (Build) Warlord (Class).

The Blackguard Design/Development article states that the Blackguard is a subclass of the Paladin class. I dunno if R. Schwalb's usage is official, but because he now writes 99.9% of anything produced by WotC is in cahoots with the designers, I think it's a good guide. The fact that we can have this discussion means something in itself, though.

You can be a Mul (Dwarf) (Race) - Dune Trader (Theme) - Inspiring Prescence (Build) - Marshal (Subclass) - Warlord (Class) with the Archer Warlord Class Feature. Classic build. [Cough]

Oh boy! You mean thanks to essentials players all our favorite classes can get nerfed to Hell and back!? Sweet! Thanks Wizards!

"Nerfed to Hell and back?" The Marshal/Warlord hasn't even been nerfed to Council Bluffs.



Ding, this hits the nail on the head. I've saying this exact thing for months. Thank you.
The Blackguard Design/Development article states that the Blackguard is a subclass of the Paladin class. I dunno if R. Schwalb's usage is official, but because he now writes 99.9% of anything produced by WotC is in cahoots with the designers, I think it's a good guide.


Hehe, he does seem to be busy doesn't he?  Yeah, I like subclass too, though its a tad cumbersome.  Maybe in 5th Edition they'll have better titles for the two tiers.  Hatta seems to like Archetype as the top tier, for example.  I'm trying to remember, what did they call the groupings in 2nd Edition?
[Edit] Oh yeah... groups. =/

People keep mentioning that these changes are nerfs. I normally DM and don't play a warlord, but one of my players is considering it. I'd like to know what to expect. Can someone please explain to me exactly what has been nerfed and how seriously it will affect the game? Thanks.
Mechanics, yes, those I understand.

Imho, this is not a "nerf" to Warlords. I think some folks are overreacting to the clarifications and adjustments made. None of them made the Warlord less powerful (unless the person in question was using "RAW" to get bonuses they probably shouldn't have been getting in the first place).

Just my two cents...
People keep mentioning that these changes are nerfs. I normally DM and don't play a warlord, but one of my players is considering it. I'd like to know what to expect. Can someone please explain to me exactly what has been nerfed and how seriously it will affect the game? Thanks.


Nothing's nerfed, everything's fine, no worries.  Some powers have been tweaked to insure greater game balance, so all the more reason to play a Warlord.  The main heartburn is probably the Tactical Presence no longer giving his Wizard friend an attack bonus to every attack roll when attacking multiple targets.  That was probably a needed change, and the power's still decent, so game on.
Nothing's been nerfed. It's just been changed for "game balance". Oh you mean a nerf? Wizards is just assassinating any and all possible stacking buffs in this game until it gets to the point that everything is a power bonus and you might as well not have a party since you can't actually help eachother anymore since all your stuff overlaps. Oh, and no nova rounds, so good luck if you face a MM2/3 monster, or enjoy the next several years of your life whistling by as you try and whittle down a MM1 monster with their infinite health.

Really, who can get excited about this crap? They're basically just going back and nerfing everything until it's as weak as the essentials wimps so they'll feel better about their case of impotence.

Thank God the Psionic Classes would be too complex for an essential's players brain to handle so ideally the only classes left I like to play will hopefully be left alone.

Can't wait to see what they'll do the rain of steel series of powers, I'm sure that's coming.
What feats?

On a more positive note, at least it mentions the Marshal can take warlord powers.


Um, why on earth wouldn't it be able to? It is the frigging warlord. Or were you worried it would get a build that murders out the encounter and daily powers? Thankfully that was never the intent.

It does make me acknowledge canceling the CC was a good idea: It was pretty much nothing new and would have had howls for blood of "IT'S JUST 4.5!!!" even more. Releasing this as a free update is pretty awesome.



Mages can't take wizard powers.

What feats?

On a more positive note, at least it mentions the Marshal can take warlord powers.


Um, why on earth wouldn't it be able to? It is the frigging warlord. Or were you worried it would get a build that murders out the encounter and daily powers? Thankfully that was never the intent.

It does make me acknowledge canceling the CC was a good idea: It was pretty much nothing new and would have had howls for blood of "IT'S JUST 4.5!!!" even more. Releasing this as a free update is pretty awesome.



Mages can't take wizard powers.


Say what? From the second-to-last paragraph on page 193 of Heroes of the Fallen Lands:

"As a mage, you can choose any spell from the list of wizard powers."

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