Attempting to optimize for charge damage in 3.5

10 posts / 0 new
Last post
Half-Orc
1 barbarian
3 Fighter

Looking to go Frenzied Beserker at lvl 7

Feats
1 Intimidating Rage
2 Power Attack
3 Cleave
3 Power Lunge

Looking to improve this. 
with the barbarian you can drop the speed increase to get pounce, Complete Champion

Interesting other thing to combine with pounce on an unarmed build would be to get Flying Kick(complete warrior): +1d12 dmg on unarmed attack on a charge
The classic Uber Charger build is:

Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce (full attack on Charge)
Power Attack
Shock trooper (drop AC for Power Attack on a Charge)
Leap attack (+1 to Power Attack Multiple)

Armed with a Big 2H Weapon of Valor (doubles damage on a Charge).  Level 6, all done.

Basically, you charge, dump all BAB into Power Attack for 2x (Weapon + Str x 1.5 + PAx3). bring spatula and tweezers for cleanup.

From there you wait until you can pick up Frenzied Berserker, figure out some way not to kill the rest of the party, and get the super rage/frenzy/supreme Power Attack for abuse, and go to town.

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
The hood is a charger taken to an extreme that combines things such as leap attack and battle jump.  Even if you don't use battle jump the guide tells you all the tricks of chargers so just take what you want.

The most recent version is here (the old version is still on these boards.)
brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
I am a lion totem barbarian. Planed on taking shocktrooper and Leap Attack and also headlong rush.
Also, where is weapon of valor located.
Valorous weapons are in the Book of Champions (isn't that the same book as Lion Totem barbarian?)

==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
Unapproachable East, no? I presume you meant Complete Champion by Book of Champions, yes that's where Lion Totem barb is from.
I'd only take two lvls of fighter as you don't get any special abilities with lvl 3 unless you're planning on taking more lvls later.

I'm helping one of my players build a charager currently and here's what I've come up with that hasn't already been said...


Rihno Hide - adds 2d6 damage on a charge DMG p220

Powerful Charge - must be medium or bigger and BAB +1, adds 1d8 per size category on a charge (works for one attack)

Greater Powerful Charge - must be medium or bigger BAB +4 and Powerful Charge, treat your character as being a size bigger (so medium character gets 2d8 instead on just the 1)  Both feats are in Miniature's Handbook p27

Hope that helps and happy hunting ;)

I read another post a while back and someone recommended Power Lunge feat. It would synergize well with charge attacks. It first appeared in Sword and Fist (that might be 3.0), but it may have been implemented to 3.5 through some other book.

Power Lunge
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +3, Power Attack.
Benefit: A successful attack roll during a charge allows you to add double your normal Strength modifier to the attack's damage, regardless of whether you're using one- or two-handed weapons. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent you charged.

"Every battle offers an opportunity of victory. It's up to you to summon the courage to grasp that moment!" -- Kurando (Shadowhearts: Covenant)

 

"A man doesn't think he acts!" -- Kamina (Gurren Lagann)

I read another post a while back and someone recommended Power Lunge feat. It would synergize well with charge attacks. It first appeared in Sword and Fist (that might be 3.0), but it may have been implemented to 3.5 through some other book.

Power Lunge
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +3, Power Attack.
Benefit: A successful attack roll during a charge allows you to add double your normal Strength modifier to the attack's damage, regardless of whether you're using one- or two-handed weapons. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent you charged.


Not only is it 3e-only, it's not going to be worth it. The closest that this got was Powerful Charge / Greater Powerful Charge, and those just add damage dice. (Sort of like Lichman's suggestions.) 

The problem is, bonus damage dice are not what you want when you're charging. Charging is perfect for damage because there are a lot of hard multipliers to tap into (i.e. Valorous weapons deal double damage on a charge, Battle Jump (if you can qualify) doubles your charge damage, and so on).  This combines with tacit multipliers (Pounce) and Power Attack (via Leap Attack) to produce some sick, sick results.

For instance, let's go pure Fighter 6 as a basis "textbook" ubercharger. (This is the most basic you can go with charging - it will NOT include Pounce, since I generally hate Complete Champion, which made pouncing impossibly easy. ) It looks like this:
1: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
2: Combat Reflexes
3: Combat Expertise
4: Improved Trip
5: (Dead level - the textbook dead level, since you play identically to Fighter 4 except with slightly larger numbers. Ugh.) 
6: Leap Attack, Shock Trooper 
(I hate making characters with just one "trick", so here I've added in basic AoO tanking. This means you're a missile during your turn and a snare on your opponents').
Weapon: +1 Guisarme. (Aiming for Valorous as soon as possible - an artificer at this level could apply it to my weapon for a short duration, though.)

 On my turn, I can charge, easily passing a DC 10 Jump check, and Power Attack for -6, which is greater than -5, so I use Shock Trooper to assign that penalty to my AC. (I'm using a reach weapon, so enemies will have trouble getting close to me, although I'll be vulnerable to arrows and rays.) Power Attack grants me +2 per -1 I took since I'm using a 2-handed weapon, so my bonus damage from Power Attack is +12. Leap Attack kicks in, tripling my bonus damage from Power Attack (to +36). My average damage climbs to 2d4+1+(1.5 Str)+36 = 42+1.5 Strength. Since Power Attack lasts the whole round, that carries on over to my AoOs - so when the enemies get their turn, they move, provoking an AoO, which I use to trip them, and then I gain a bonus attack from Improved Trip (against a prone target, which has -4 AC vs melee). Then they have to stand up if they want to do anything, and standing up invites ANOTHER big attack.

Power Lunge may contribute to the charge damage (+0.5 Strength total damage), but it cannot make up for that degree of battlefield control,  nor the increased damage as a result of that. So it will be difficult to justify including pre-6th. And after 6th, you're probably diversifying into other areas too. Remember, each -1 you take on Power Attack while leaping amounts to +6 damage - to match this with Power Lunge, you'd need a Strength of 32. (The other "advantage" to Power Lunge, the ability to apply this to one-handed weapons, isn't even worth considering, since Power Attack, Leap Attack, and so on aren't worth using one-handed if you can help it.)

And this isn't even terribly optimized - it;s the napkin-sketch version. 

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Sign In to post comments