03/24/2011 FtL: "Mirrodin Memories and Musings"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Wow, I have the sudden urge to build all 3 of thoose decks O.o

I'm glad to see Semblance Anvil getting some love also Cool 
Once again great inspiration here! The ideas are just great. Unfortunately, the milling strategies tend not to work well in multiplayer environments (which is where I use my casual decks) and locking strategies are often recognized too early, meaning it'll be 3 or 4 against me. I will probably try the last deck out though, it looks like great fun and is possibly capable of locking out multiple opponents.
I like all these decks.  However, I believe that would be a very good choice for the Foreverflowing deck.  It allows you to have a constant source of counters for the chalices once you can get the mana.  Steady Progress is generally insufficient for the task.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
I like all these decks.  However, I believe that would be a very good choice for the Foreverflowing deck.  It allows you to have a constant source of counters for the chalices once you can get the mana.  Steady Progress is generally insufficient for the task.



You really don't need all that much proliferate with that deck as long as you make sure you have the two Everflowing chalices on the table before you play your steady progress:  if you play your first chalice for two mana and then use it to help play the second chalice for four mana, you will have one chalice with 1 counter and one with 2 counters if you now play steady progress to proliferate you will go to 2 and 3 counters giving you 5 mana which already suffices to go infinite as described in the article. (2 chalices with 2 counters doesn't work because you will get stuck at 2 mana)

And steady progress helps to draw into you other combo pieces whereas contagion clasp might get stuck in you hand since it is a danger to your 1 toughness creatures if your opponent doesn't have any creatures. Of course you could replace the non-combo non-progress pieces with the clasp and some other stuff to: prevent this potential problem/make proliferate more useful.
The article skips over an important point which may confuse some readers.

I would draw a card.

The replacement effect on Possessed Portal says that I skip that draw instead.

The replacement effect on Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar says that I look at the top three cards of my library instead.

Which one actually happens, and which one doesn't happen, because the other replacement effect means that I don't draw a card? It doesn't seem to be guaranteed, just because I tried to deal with Possessed Portal by playing Tomorrow, that the replacement effect I want is the one that is going to actually happen.

The answer to that, of course, involves one of the most obscure sections of the Comprehensive Rules.

A replacement effect is considered to be one type of continuous effect, and because two continuous effects may apply simultaneously to a situation, which one is to be applied first is determined, not by timing, but by the layer system. However, the different layers all refer to effects that change some attribute of a spell or permanent, not to effects that replace one action by another.

Another rule, however, is present to deal with cases not resolved by the layer system. This is the timestamp system. Basically, it says that if Possessed Portal was played first, and Tomorrow was played later, then Possessed Portal would have the earlier timestamp, and therefore its effect would take place first.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

The article skips over an important point which may confuse some readers.

I would draw a card.

The replacement effect on Possessed Portal says that I skip that draw instead.

The replacement effect on Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar says that I look at the top three cards of my library instead.

Which one actually happens, and which one doesn't happen, because the other replacement effect means that I don't draw a card? It doesn't seem to be guaranteed, just because I tried to deal with Possessed Portal by playing Tomorrow, that the replacement effect I want is the one that is going to actually happen.

The answer to that, of course, involves one of the most obscure sections of the Comprehensive Rules.

A replacement effect is considered to be one type of continuous effect, and because two continuous effects may apply simultaneously to a situation, which one is to be applied first is determined, not by timing, but by the layer system. However, the different layers all refer to effects that change some attribute of a spell or permanent, not to effects that replace one action by another.

Another rule, however, is present to deal with cases not resolved by the layer system. This is the timestamp system. Basically, it says that if Possessed Portal was played first, and Tomorrow was played later, then Possessed Portal would have the earlier timestamp, and therefore its effect would take place first.



I'm not sure about that.  I had a Possessed Portal / Azami's Familiar deck built at one point, and (on MTGO, a couple years back) it let me choose which effect to apply.  I got the deck from a different DailyMTG article about Possessed Portal, which originally illustrated the interaction.

The obvious disclaimers:  it could've been a bug, and/or rules could've changed since then.
Rule 616.1 " If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order"

According to this rule, since both Possessed Portal and Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar are attempting to modify a player's draw step, the player whose draw is affected gets to choose which effect to apply.

Source:  www.crystalkeep.com/magic/rules/summarie...
 
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
Rule 616.1 " If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below.

Ah, so I was not looking at the right rule, and that's why I missed the one that would actually apply.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

Multiple replacement effects are always such a pain... like Prince of Thralls + persist, or the like.

Some interesting decks though.
I like the first one. Nice. 8)