03/23/2011 BoaB: "Rareless and Careless"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
YES!!!!!
That was good!
More game logs than usual, though still not as many as I would like (and they are pretty in-depth, so I'm giving JVL a break there), it's a deck we see a lot of, but with some non-intuitive choices, and overall it was very good.
Also, the fact he went 2-1 against Caw-go with a rareless deck means we may see more. Tournament compeititive is fine as a standard for budget, but we still need a budget. One of the main arguments against something more constricting is that it wouldn't work. But here we have proof that it can!
One suggestion: Don't be to concerned with making it entirely rare-free. I think I speak for all of us complainers when I say we'd be fine with budget rares, especially if they're absolutely necessary to the deck. We've just thought you've been going overboard recently. 
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57070368 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
Even metallix is gone now.
I'm right here.
"Down came an Inferno Titan, which killed my Kiln Fiend and dealt me 2 damage."

Since when does Inferno Titan do 4 damage?

Yet another fake game log by JvL.  It'd be nice if he could just have someone with 1/2 a brain take a look at his articles before he puts them up.

"I drew a Staggershock, cast Arc Trail dealing ` to the Lotus Cobra and 2 to my opponent, and passed the turn."

Classic ` damage.
Do we always have to be dicks?  Seriously?  There's a difference between criticism and being a jack off.  Lighten up.

Rules Advisor

Why do you have to just troll and dont give anything good to the post?


BtW, what about calcite snipper? It is awesome specially with that many Terramorhic, also, Pyroclasmo or just a seismic shudder would be verry verry helpfull

The deck is good, and by just $10 it will be a pyromancer asension ($10=x4 asensions)
I've been tying around with a similar deck, and Calcite Snapper is a really good addition.  Your burn keeps the board clear and the 4 point beat is really nice.  He also blocks nicely against some of the better ground pounders in the format.  The only problem is that with him and the Commando together, the deck needs to be a little more heavy on the blue.

If you really wanted to jazz this deck up with a couple bucks, Slagstorm could be a good addition, especially if you decide to get in on the Convertible Turtle action.  The spell doubles as an emergency board sweeper against very fast Aggro like Kuldotha, and can even be used as extra face burn, which is especially nice paired with Kiln Fiend.
Nice deck JVL.  Assault Strobe or Thunder Strike would compliment  Neurok Commando and Kiln Fiend nicely. Could you consider building a budget deck around Glissa, The Traitor and Geth, Lord of the Vault please? I know both are Mythic rares, but their prices have come way down since Mirrodin Beseiged was released. For instance, Glissa is going for around $2.00 and Geth is going for about $1.00 on TCGplayer.com. I would be interested in your ideas on what to build around these two.
Have you read Ishmael? "Teacher seeks pupil, must have an earnest desire to save the world."
This deck looks like a lot of fun. The fact that it told CawBlade to shut up for at least one game means it has some validity. But I think putting more Shroud guys into the mix will just make opponents reach for more mass removal in the sideboard; Pyroclasm being treated like spot removal is a bit of a humorous prospect. However, I really do suggest this for the Avenger of Zendikar matchup: Chain Reaction. If he makes enough plants, blow his funky butt out of the sky with this on color and very relevant Day of Judgment clone. It may just be necessary.

I'd also suggest maybe a package of Chandra's Spitfire to hammer in the damage, but it really contends with that 3-drop spot held by both Aether Adept and the Commando. You know although this is strictly a rareless build, I'm inclined to suggest using Chandra herself; she does play the role of crowd control in this era dominated by weenies holding swords. But that would put a 5 mana spike in your curve; likewise Koth wouldn't help you much since this isn't mono red, but he'd still be able to Vengevine one of your mountains, and they'd have to choose between 4 damage and 2+ card advantage for you.

Otherwise, you could put Distortion Strike in the sideboard because it's just so good with Fiend.

All in all, the most ridiculously fun budget deck I've had the pleasure of reading about in a while.
"Catch!"
Nice deck JVL.  Assault Strobe or Thunder Strike would compliment  Neurok Commando and Kiln Fiend nicely. Could you consider building a budget deck around Glissa, The Traitor and Geth, Lord of the Vault please? I know both are Mythic rares, but their prices have come way down since Mirrodin Beseiged was released. For instance, Glissa is going for around $2.00 and Geth is going for about $1.00 on TCGplayer.com. I would be interested in your ideas on what to build around these two.



You can't hit Commando with either, because she has Shroud. Kiln Fiend can become amazing when he's double-striking though.
I know it breaks the "no rare" rule, but it still seems like a terrible idea to have Neurok Commando in there when things like Surrakar Spellblade exist. Maybe the Shroud actually helps sometimes, but if you're planning on clearing the way for your guys with that much burn, the Spellblade would draw you a fistful of cards whenever it hits. Plus, it's actually cheaper than some of the commons in the deck *cough*Lightning Bolt*cough*.
Rules Nut Advisor
This column is one of my favorites on this site (the others being Mark Rosewater's and Limited Information), and it's articles like this that make it so.  Of course, the real lesson is that Arc Trail and Lightning Bolt are quite good, but it's amusing to see stuff like Neriok Commando not only be playable but in fact quite good.  Keep up the good work!
I know it breaks the "no rare" rule, but it still seems like a terrible idea to have Neurok Commando in there when things like Surrakar Spellblade exist. Maybe the Shroud actually helps sometimes, but if you're planning on clearing the way for your guys with that much burn, the Spellblade would draw you a fistful of cards whenever it hits. Plus, it's actually cheaper than some of the commons in the deck *cough*Lightning Bolt*cough*.



I think the shroud's actually pretty important here.  Against a deck like this one that plays so few creatures (and may well be holding the Aether Adepts back waiting for good bounce targets), it seems like there's a good chance your opponent has excess removal spells burning a hole in his hand waiting for a legal target while you're busy burning a hole in his face. 

Why give him an outlet for those cards that would otherwise go to waste? 
I haven't played magic in years but I occasionally check the the site for any cool or interesting decks, and this was one of them. I made an account just so that I could say that I loved this deck.

The synergy between the cheap burn spells,the card drawing commando and kiln fiend was just awesome. I was a little worried about the inclusion of counter magic, but as I saw with the rare stuffed decks you came up against it was definately necessary. Great work making an effective and fun looking deck with a bunch of commons/uncommons.

Joe 
Really liked the article, nice job! 

I noticed that burst lightning is not on your 75 list, however you used it in some match-ups, what am i missing?
Really liked the article, nice job! 

I noticed that burst lightning is not on your 75 list, however you used it in some match-ups, what am i missing?



He probably meant forked bolt, both deal 2 damage for R. Burst lightning not so good here, because spending 5 to deal 4 damage just seems bad.

Agreee with the other comments above he definately needs some form of board sweeper in the SB, unless he accepts that avenger of zendikar or even other token makers = lose.

Other considerations in uncommon to deal with bombs

Mind control/corrupted conscience
act of treason/mark of mutiny/traitourous instinct

the red ones will pump the kiln fiend in addtion to letting you swing with their titan, by which time a single swing should be all you need.

I'd like to know if neurok invisimancer was considered for the aether adept slot.
Why was there no Distortion Strike in this deck?!

EDIT: and this isnt really a "Rareless deck" - its a deck with Scalding Tarns taken out.
(Maybe that says something about the cost of mana bases...)

If you build this deck and you enjoy using it, you could use the money you saved to pay for Tarns. That way you have them for the next deck you build, and this deck *still* ends up Budget.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Excellent article.  Does everything BoaB should do (budget, game logs and explanation).  Yes, there are one or two inconsistencies but that is really neither here nor there in my opinion.

The last couple of weeks have seen a great improvement to this column.  The decks are more budget and a third game report is really nice.  Obviously, no rares is the pinnacle of budget but not essential for a budget deck.  I think what most people get upset about is when the main card (which you usually require 4 of) is a $8+ card.  

Another option would be for JVL to put a poll at the end of an article with a number of cheap rares and the readers are asked to select which one JVL should build a deck around.  Obviously JVL can narrow the poll to cards that he thinks could work (no-one is asking for a deck to be built around Magnetic Mine)!). 
(no-one is asking for a deck to be built around Magnetic Mine)!). 


Wouldnt that work in a Liquimetal Coating deck?

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Thank you. Yet another budget deck that I can afford. I've copied your Shaman Trounce (switching the expensive Fauna Shaman with Elvish Visionary,) All-In-Fect, Budget Quest Red, More Mana, More Myr, and Overwhelming Green (minus the Wildspeakers) decks.
Loved this deck.  It seems like it does pretty well and is really budget friendly.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
Really liked the article, nice job! 

I noticed that burst lightning is not on your 75 list, however you used it in some match-ups, what am i missing?



He probably meant forked bolt, both deal 2 damage for R. Burst lightning not so good here, because spending 5 to deal 4 damage just seems bad.

However, he specifically mentions casting "an unkicked Burst Lightning" in one of the games.  I think what probably happened is that he played some games with Burst Lightning, then replaced it with one of the other burn spells for the final deck list, and forgot to mention it in the article.
YES!!!!!
That was good!
More game logs than usual, though still not as many as I would like (and they are pretty in-depth, so I'm giving JVL a break there), it's a deck we see a lot of, but with some non-intuitive choices, and overall it was very good.
Also, the fact he went 2-1 against Caw-go with a rareless deck means we may see more. Tournament compeititive is fine as a standard for budget, but we still need a budget. One of the main arguments against something more constricting is that it wouldn't work. But here we have proof that it can!
One suggestion: Don't be to concerned with making it entirely rare-free. I think I speak for all of us complainers when I say we'd be fine with budget rares, especially if they're absolutely necessary to the deck. We've just thought you've been going overboard recently. 




I agree. When I see decks I like, I usually go onto MTGO and check out how much it would really cost to build. I've been disappointed to find many "Budget" decks pushing $20 and $30 to build (and that's with having a few of the cards).

Now, as I typically play the classic format, I'll take these decks and see if I can't improve them with older card I already have or that are cheaper than what is in the deck. But,. that doens't drop the price that much.

To buy this deck on MTGO, it would cost about $5.25 (assuming you only have basic lands and no other cards in it). Now that is a budget deck. 

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Wow, it's a budget deck in a BoaB article for once. I really love this deck, it's the exact idea for a deck I was looking for. I've been looking for a way to abuse Neurok Commando since it was released, and also looking for a way to use all the good red burn spells that are available. The only thing this article is really missing is a section that describes rares that could potentially be added to the deck; I feel this section would be especially important for rareless budget decks.

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

I really don't see the point of just eliminating rares when you are going "budget".  There are some very reasonable rares out there that you can get for less than the cost of a bolt. 

I realize that there is a group of people that want that kind of thing, but I think that they aren't really looking at the whole picture.  Rares are the only place that you can find some complicated effects, so it limits deckbuilding if you can't have access to those effects. 

My suggestion to both keep things interesting to you and to satisfy the budget crowd is to rotate through based on cost.  There are typically 4-5 weeks in any given month, so split up your decks as follows:

Week 1 - $75 or less (Still reasonable for competitive decks.)
Week 2 - $25 or less
Week 3 - $40 or less
Week 4 - $10 or less
Week 5 (If applicable) - Alternate format, or pet deck revisit

That way you could make everyone happy, at least part of the time, and you have a bit more freedom to explore ideas.  Also, if you have a card that you expect to put into decks for as long as it is in standard - just say so.  If it is a $5 card, but you anticipate using it in 20 decks, then just tell people.  That way they can buckle down and invest. 

My 2 cents,
-MT Head

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

I agree, great article overall (although more thorough editing really is needed, I got confused by the Burst Lightning thing too) and great deck. It's worth noting that "building on a budget" is a vague description. A deck that is worth a fifth of the price of average tournament-winners still could cost over $50 to build from scratch, considering how much Standard decks have been worth in recent months and years, and yet it is definitely "budget" in a relative sense. And there are a lot of rares that sell for a dollar or less; if you can't afford them, or trade something you aren't going to use for them, then come on, what are you doing with your collection? And yet still, calling a $40 deck with 16 rares or something "budget" looks really wrong. It seems that this column sometimes uses one definition of "budget" and sometimes uses another... not that there's anything wrong with that. Well, not necessarily...
Nice deck JVL. Assault Strobe or Thunder Strike would compliment Neurok Commando and Kiln Fiend nicely. Could you consider building a budget deck around Glissa, The Traitor and Geth, Lord of the Vault please? I know both are Mythic rares, but their prices have come way down since Mirrodin Beseiged was released. For instance, Glissa is going for around $2.00 and Geth is going for about $1.00 on TCGplayer.com. I would be interested in your ideas on what to build around these two.


Interesting idea.

I'd build a deck around one or the other, but not both. And I wouldn't use Geth, because (while he's a cool, powerful card, of course) his abilities don't seem to work well together. If you have a 5/5 with intimidate, you want to attack, not pay lots of mana for shenanigans that mill your opponent and give you creatures that enter the battlefield tapped.

So, Glissa. She kills anything in combat without dying herself (except for regenerators, other first strikers, indestructible creatures, etc.) and she recurs artifacts. Unfortunately, the first ability requires your opponent choosing to block her or attack with her untapped, and the second ability requires killing your opponent's creatures. That's not generally a problem for black, but still, you can't plan on it. However, while looking for ideas for this deck I stumbled on a weird, nearly useless card that would go great with her: Blazing Torch. Equipment that gets sacrificed must have a low equip cost to be worth using at all, right? But with Glissa, the sacrifice isn't much of a drawback. So we have a deathtouch-poke, just like putting a Basilisk Collar on a Cunning Sparkmage, but with the utility of recurring any artifact you feel like. Also, cheap or not, Glissa is still a mythic rare, so I would try to keep the rest of the deck rareless just like the deck in this article.

So here's a budget deck idea...

Ideally, this deck would play Glissa on turn two, equip her with the torch on turn three, (realistically that might not happen until four or five, but it's not that hard) and deathtouch-poke every creature your opponent plays. Multiple per turn should be easy with the untapping effects. You have about 30 mana sources counting elves and spellbombs, but you need them to cast and equip costs for your artifacts over and over again. I know Piston Sledge is a weird card to include, but it's meant as a sacrifice outlet for all the artifacts with enters-the-battlefield or leaves-the-battlefield triggers, especially Ichor Wellspring. Turning the measly little mana Elves into serious threats is just a bonus.

To non-budgetize the deck, replace the cheap fetchlands with Verdant Catacombs of course, replace the Doom Blades with Go for the Throat or Brittle Effigy, and make room for Mimic Vats. You'll have the pick of your opponent's creatures to choose from, and the vat can get back Glissa herself after your opponent kills her. (Which, realistically, they will.) Sure, making a copy of Glissa with the vat and equipping her every turn would get expensive, but again, you have plenty of mana. I'd also consider Livewire Lash and/or Basilisk Collar itself in a non-budget version of this. Finally, I prefer Standard, but if you wanted to make an Extended deck, one card that would definitely have to be included is Executioner's Capsule. She can recur it as many times as you have the mana, and it can kill Emrakul even if you don't have the torch yet.

... Actually, I like the look of this deck a lot. I only worry about two things: is it fast enough (that might sound weird, but you're helpless until Glissa gets a torch), and does it need more sacrifice outlets? Still, I think I want to make it. So what do others think of it?

Great deck!!!! I love non-rare decks that can compete at this level. Its also nice to see that you can play at that level without dishing out your paycheck (even though I'll end up doing it anyways). I have a playgroup right now that is full of beginners, so I was looking around for rareless decks to introduce them to. Unfortunately most standard decks are not really accessible to newcomers (who are usually not willing to lay down $50 + for a deck). Usually I would check this column first, but recently there have been way too many non-budget cards in the decks (Goblin guide, Creeping tar pits etc. etc.). I will definitely introduce this one to my playgroup. Maybe now they can even hope to play some friday night magic (outside our playgroup) and win a game against the usual suspects.
Rock on rareless decks!!!

PS - I think the rareless decks are a great addition to the column because it allows for the newer players to get into the game at a higher level right away. The challenge isn't getting someone to try to play magic, rather to make them come back for more. I think this deck can make that happen. Thanks again.

I'd build a deck around one or the other, but not both. And I wouldn't use Geth, because (while he's a cool, powerful card, of course) his abilities don't seem to work well together. If you have a 5/5 with intimidate, you want to attack, not pay lots of mana for shenanigans that mill your opponent and give you creatures that enter the battlefield tapped.


Geth's ability doesnt including tapping him as a cost, so you can do both. ;)

~ Tim

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Man-o-war side by side with Lightning Bolt? *love*

Van Lunen is so good it's scary.


Mulligan down to 4 with all land, JvL still wins.


 


 


 

Unfortunately Blazing Torch is templated differently than most pingers. Blazing Torch deals the damage from Blazing Torch, so it can't get Deathtouch from Glissa. (or any other creature, unless you have some convoluted way to give Blazing Torch itself Deathtouch.)

Your combo only works if every creature the opponent plays has toughness 2 or less.
Unfortunately Blazing Torch is templated differently than most pingers. Blazing Torch deals the damage from Blazing Torch, so it can't get Deathtouch from Glissa. (or any other creature, unless you have some convoluted way to give Blazing Torch itself Deathtouch.)

Your combo only works if every creature the opponent plays has toughness 2 or less.

Gliss + any damage to a creature = death (unless indestructible or regenerated)

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Wow, it's a budget deck in a BoaB article for once. I really love this deck, it's the exact idea for a deck I was looking for. I've been looking for a way to abuse Neurok Commando since it was released, and also looking for a way to use all the good red burn spells that are available. The only thing this article is really missing is a section that describes rares that could potentially be added to the deck; I feel this section would be especially important for rareless budget decks.



Here here!

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Unfortunately Blazing Torch is templated differently than most pingers. Blazing Torch deals the damage from Blazing Torch, so it can't get Deathtouch from Glissa. (or any other creature, unless you have some convoluted way to give Blazing Torch itself Deathtouch.)

Your combo only works if every creature the opponent plays has toughness 2 or less.

Gliss + any damage to a creature = death (unless indestructible or regenerated)



Reread what you quoted, then realize what it means.

As for the article, I like that JVL actually built something that would be considered budget by most people's standards (or at least mine), but the problem I am really having is one that I've always had- his game recaps. If they were formatted to be as simple as possible, I'd really like that. It doesn't even need to be in paragraph form.
But more importantly, JVL seems to pick only idiots to show us his recaps. The guy playing Naya could have equipped his Firewalker with the sword of body and mind, which would have made narcolepsy fall off, then attacked with it. Very few of the decks that he previews are really that great that they would be able to beat these top decks on a consistent basis, yet he ALWAYS manages to go 2-1 or 2-0 against most of them. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Unfortunately Blazing Torch is templated differently than most pingers. Blazing Torch deals the damage from Blazing Torch, so it can't get Deathtouch from Glissa. (or any other creature, unless you have some convoluted way to give Blazing Torch itself Deathtouch.)

Your combo only works if every creature the opponent plays has toughness 2 or less.

Gliss + any damage to a creature = death (unless indestructible or regenerated)



Damn, missed that, you're right, it wouldn't work. (Vlad, read Blazing Torch again, like I didn't: it says "Blazing Torch deals" the damage, not "this creature deals" it.) That's depressing that I went through all that work of a decklist based around a combo that doesn't work nearly as well as I thought.

Oh well. It looks like Heavy Arbalest actually would work the way I thought, although it would be a lot more expensive, and I could get something else back every time instead of recasting it. And Mortarpod on Glissa would work. Still, this basic deck idea is nowhere near as good as I thought.
You know, it occurs to me:
A lot of us have been complaining about JVL not being as good as Bleiweiss or JMS. I've thought so myself for a while, but have found a reason for it:
With the last 2 authors, people would make requests and give feedback ALL THE TIME on message boards! The readers were way more involved, giving suggestions for decks, taking polls, and testing parallel versions. We've all just been saying "Too many rares!" "Too Expensive!" "This game log was faked!" "There aren't enough game logs!" "Blaaaah!", while we haven't been doing things like, I dunno, suggesting ideas for next week's article! We should be helping JVL out more to think of cool new ideas for decks every week!
So, I'm going to make a request: I've been trying to figure out a black-white deck using life gain and Dark tutelage to keep it's life total high, while using Venser's Journal+Dark Tutelage to gain huge amounts of life in the late game. So far, it's done VERY well against aggro (because maindeck lifegain makes aggro want to die), but has had trouble with control decks featuring Jace. Believe it or not, the ultimate comes into play. You gain a huge amount of life, go into triple digits, and they use Jace's ultimate to kill you ANYWAY. I haven't been able to fix this, so I want to see how JVL would do it. 
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Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNoi_wwzbtQ
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WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?
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57070368 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
Even metallix is gone now.
I'm right here.
i have a deck that i have been working on and i was wondering if you guys could give me a hand on making it abit better. it has no rares and i havn't had a chance to play it against anyone yet. 



artifacts: 12
signal pest X4
ornithopter X4
memnite X4

white: 16
ardent recruit X4
accorder paladin X4
holy strength X4
master's call X4

red:16
goblin wardriver X4 
galvanic blast X4
lightning bolt X4
kuldotha rebirth X4

lands:18
mountain X7
plains X7
terramorphic expanse X2
evolving wilds X2

Total 62 cards
 
But more importantly, JVL seems to pick only idiots to show us his recaps. The guy playing Naya could have equipped his Firewalker with the sword of body and mind, which would have made narcolepsy fall off, then attacked with it. Very few of the decks that he previews are really that great that they would be able to beat these top decks on a consistent basis, yet he ALWAYS manages to go 2-1 or 2-0 against most of them. 


Have you played in tournaments?

A lot of people playing even in PTQ/PT's miss that kind of thing.  They familiarize themselves with their deck and the match-ups.  If it isn't something that they have done 20+ times, they just don't think of doing it.  That is one of the reasons that rogue decks do so well.  When you actually start making people think about how to play their deck, they tend to make a lot of mistakes.  One of the reasons that I admire the really elite players is that they rarely get into that autopilot mode. 

Now this wasn't even a real tournament with something on the line.  This was the tourney practice room on MTGO.  Add in the fact that a lot of players in the tourney practice room get high and mighty about anyone that isn't playing one of the established top tier decks, and mistakes don't surprise me at all. 

-MT Head
Just want to say good job.

Though it may be difficult to build competitive decks on a budget, it IS what readers of this article are looking for and the positive responses speak very loudly to that.

With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing wacky decks that are innovative and fun to play, and don't concern itself TOO much with having game against every tier 1 deck.

Another feature that would be nice would be something like a buying guide - incorporate undervalued rares WITH potential in deck construction, and try to use those same rares in future articles.  Highly dependent on the card pool, I know, but would very much like to see this as it builds player's collections and cut down on overall cost.
Well at least now we know he listens.
i have a deck that i have been working on and i was wondering if you guys could give me a hand on making it abit better. it has no rares and i havn't had a chance to play it against anyone yet. 


Probably not bad. Red and white (RW) (also known as Boros) make good colors for an aggressive deck. They both attack effectively with weenies, which is what you want, and they both happen to have good cheap ones.

First of all, I'd take out the Holy Strength. It's generally very hard to make creature enchantments (Auras) worth using. The risk is card disadvantage; if someone casts Doom Blade on your creature after the aura is in play, they will have used one card to deal with two of yours. Even if it's an aura that would protect your creature from that, Canopy Cover for example, they can use instant-speed removal on the creature in response to you declaring that you are casting the aura, and the creature will be removed before it's protected, so the aura's target won't be valid and it will fizzle. So don't use auras like Holy Strength, except maybe in Limited where you might have no better options, or with cards like Kor Spiritdancer that pay you back for the risk in other ways.

Another pretty basic tip is to get it down to 60 cards. There's always a worst card that can be cut to make the deck more lean and mean.

Also, I'd put in more artifacts. If you're going to use metalcraft at all, while still sacrificing some artifacts to the rebirth, you should be as certain as you can possibly be that metalcraft is active. Some possibilities: Everflowing Chalice, Chimeric Mass (yes, it's rare, but it's not expensive at all as rares go), Contagion Clasp, Flayer Husk, Origin Spellbomb, or Sylvok Lifestaff. All are cheap in both dollars and mana, some can be cast for zero if you just want to cast a Kuldotha Rebirth on turn one, and none can exactly be taken out by the usual creature removal.

Finally, I'd suggest more land. I see that your deck has a really low average CMC, but still, 18 land is very few. Maybe go for 20 total land with six fetchlands instead of four? Especially if it's two colors and has a bunch of stuff you want to cast on the first two turns. Right now it's impossible to cast Ardent Recruit on turn one and Goblin Wardriver on turn two, and that's a problem. If you want to keep it Standard-legal but you're willing to go non-budget, Arid Mesa would be absolutely essential. If you don't care about being Standard-legal, use Sacred Foundry.

So, my version (just my opinion, just a spur-of-the-moment decklist, don't take this all that seriously, etc.):

Good luck.
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