DnD Character Builder?

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Sorry to bother about this, but I was looking at the Character Builder and I was curious what happened to it?

I was looking for the old Character Generator Preview here used to be... Where exactly is it? I remember there was an offline version I could use if I wanted without needing to sign up for dnd insider... and it definently had a much better layout then the one I am looking at now...

anyone know where to get the older one of the them?
the offline Character builder was taken down several months ago.  You can still find it on the anals of the internet if you know where to look.  I'd just start at a google search and go from there.
TT-TT that sucks!!!
-flees to google to look-
I really hope I find it, and I really hope they keep updating it for DnD Subscriber v.v

I don't think I will become a DnD insider if I can't find the GOOD charater builder TT-TT
The online character builder is pretty much on a par with the old builder now. The updates done since release have definately improved it. You still cant house rule anything but then again you couldnt really do that on the old builder either.

As for the old builder being GOOD - well i think there are a lot of people with rose tinted spectacles. It was ok and it was very useful and i certainly used it, but having both side by side on my PC im sticking with the new one.

For those of you with kids please check out the D&D Parents Group. http://community.wizards.com/dndparents

@Dargurd: Would you have said that if the old one had the same updates as the new one? Or if you had no way of connecting onto the New one because for some reason or another?

I am sorry, but there is no way an online sorce is better then one you can download. I would much rather have it so you could save it onto your own computer or have some sort of thing you can run on your computer in some case where you are without internet. And I'd rather not have to continulessly pay for something just to get the characters I alwady made off of it (a subscription is the same thing as a monthly payment, which is one reason why I play guildwars and now WoW...)

But meh, I can't really give an honest oppinion, for I will never have the "updated" version. I refuse to have a tool I cannot use without having to open up Internet explorer or Fire Fox... I rather just have access to it from my computer.

I don't mind buying for a subsciption, but if I can't download the single tool I will be using for myself, I don't see any reason to buy the new stuff.

But honestly, I seen the preview for it, I've watched my friend use it, and in all honestly? If the old one had the updates, then I would have used that one instead. (and as for houserules in the old one, you obviously didn't look around as much as I did, cuz I made a whole houserule booklet of stuff inside that old when before my laptop crashed, and I came back to find out I cannot download it ever again xD)
"I don't mind buying for a subsciption, but if I can't download the single tool I will be using for myself, I don't see any reason to buy the new stuff"

oh well you have no reason to buy new stuff then. bye!
I'm a DDI subscriber and use the new CB.  I just received a message or broadcast from wizards saying that they are going to impliment house rules and ways to view your character sheet while off line (besides pdf or printing it).  Aside from that, it has all the functionality of the old builder.  I do love the old off-line version.  So I'd wait a little and see how the online version does and if it really can compare.  If they can deliver an off-line but interactive character sheet, like the old CB provided, I'd be one happy subscriber.  It was my main goal to go paperless for a while.  Though I really enjoy having access to the new options.  So I can keep printing for a while. 
The one thing in the offline builder that I prefer is Character Sheets.  I do like the old style sheets.  The new style are too spread out, wasting way too much space.  It takes 3 pages to include what the old one did in 2.  Granted, that may be better for people who suffer from sensory overload, but I like the old sheets, that showed the calculations.

A couple weeks ago, I would have said I liked the old one for Inherent bonuses, but the new one has those now, so I can include them in my games/PCs.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
Yeah, the new one will never be on par with the old one until you can make unlimited characters and update, level up, view, and retrain offline. Even now there are bugs in it that are not present in the offline builder.

It is getting better, but the OCB is nowhere near on 'par' with the CCB...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
A couple things I noticed (still) missing the last time I played with the online CB, which was about a week ago:

1) The character I was working with is a staff wizard with staff fighting. It apparently is impossible to wield a wizard's staff two-handed.

2) With the old CB, I'd typically develop a character at level 10 or above so I could make sure I had all prerequisites for long-term plans, then use the "show at level" feature to see the character at the current actual level. There is no provision for de-leveling a character.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Yeah, the new one will never be on par with the old one until you can make unlimited characters and update, level up, view, and retrain offline. Even now there are bugs in it that are not present in the offline builder.

It is getting better, but the OCB is nowhere near on 'par' with the CCB...



Do you really need unlimted PCs.  Why do you need more then 20 PCs.  Are you using them all?  Even if you put your friends PCs in your saying that you are playing in 4 games (assuming average of 5 players a game).


Yeah, the new one will never be on par with the old one until you can make unlimited characters and update, level up, view, and retrain offline. Even now there are bugs in it that are not present in the offline builder.

It is getting better, but the OCB is nowhere near on 'par' with the CCB...

Do you really need unlimted PCs.  Why do you need more then 20 PCs.  Are you using them all?  Even if you put your friends PCs in your saying that you are playing in 4 games (assuming average of 5 players a game).




  • Without any sort of deleveling option, if you want to see a character at each level you need up to 30 save slots for ONE character.

  • You may want alternate versions of a character that differ in ways other than level.

  • You may want to build a character to explore a concept, without necessarily having any intent at all of ever playing the character. For example, I built a character heavily optimized to one specific requirement: it does not miss on OAs. (Hits typical level+7 monster on a 2, and is using Twin Strike so it gets two tries - and if one attempt to hit a monster misses, the next attempt gets an extra +2.)

"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Considering I had the new racial modifiers 3 hours after they were released using the old CB with some "outside tools", yeah there's no need for the online CB. Old one does everything and has everything faster than the new one can update. I can keep all my builds organized in folders, no limit to the number of characters. Houseruled feats. Heck I can even make my own feats and with a little XML knowledge. Battleminds now have their own version of Intelligent Blademaster.

Actually thanks to the online CB the old CB is better than ever. 
Considering how easy it was to find the character builder on torrents for free, I can understand why Wizards would want their Builder to now be a web app.  My question is where are the Dungeon Tools updates? I know there's a new monster builder coming out (using silverlight, like the C.B.) but where are the other tools? The "Loot Selection" app? The "Battle Sounds" soundboard? The WotC Realtime initiative tracker? The Damage Based Flavor Text Generator?  All the cool stuff so your DM can throw down a game faster then Greased Lightning and get your players immersed! And on a serious note Where's the Online Game Table we were promised? That was the main reason I started paying monthly to become a subscriber.  Though Dungeon magazine, Dragon magazine, and a few character building perks are nice.  I'm having trouble understanding why we're paying for a service we're yet to receive after so long...

...you do great work Wizards, and we're all appreciative. But where is what you've promised?
I love when people name drop Pathfinder on wizard's comments and forums like it some sort of threat. "I don't like you D&D, you've changed. I'm going steady with Pathfinder now, he reminds me of how you used to be. Broken and easy to exploit"
Yeah, the new one will never be on par with the old one until you can make unlimited characters and update, level up, view, and retrain offline. Even now there are bugs in it that are not present in the offline builder.

It is getting better, but the OCB is nowhere near on 'par' with the CCB...



You can create a character and export them to your computer or a back-up device of your choice.  This way you can have unlimited characters and just import them back when you want to use them.  It's not the most elegant solution, but you can still have all the characters you want. 

I'm not a big fan of the new character sheets being 3 pages with some wasted space.  I'd like to see a return to the old CB character sheets.  Plus the new CB sheets don't have your powers listed on them with the check off boxes.  Not a huge deal, but it seems like they had more on the old character sheets with less space, which I really like.  I also miss being able to put my own portrait in for my character.  I did a character portrait of my fighter that I liked and would like to have it on my character sheet. 
Yeah, the new one will never be on par with the old one until you can make unlimited characters and update, level up, view, and retrain offline. Even now there are bugs in it that are not present in the offline builder.

It is getting better, but the OCB is nowhere near on 'par' with the CCB...

Do you really need unlimted PCs.  Why do you need more then 20 PCs.  Are you using them all?  Even if you put your friends PCs in your saying that you are playing in 4 games (assuming average of 5 players a game).




  • Without any sort of deleveling option, if you want to see a character at each level you need up to 30 save slots for ONE character.

  • You may want alternate versions of a character that differ in ways other than level.

  • You may want to build a character to explore a concept, without necessarily having any intent at all of ever playing the character. For example, I built a character heavily optimized to one specific requirement: it does not miss on OAs. (Hits typical level+7 monster on a 2, and is using Twin Strike so it gets two tries - and if one attempt to hit a monster misses, the next attempt gets an extra +2.)




with point one and point two you still would not need more then 20 PC slots.

A deleveling option would fix the first problem. 

When wotc decided how many PC slots they had to think how many slots would be suffient for the average gamer while at the same time helping players do what you said.

They though at 20 it would be enough.

In the end it doesn't matter how many slots they gave it wouldn't be enough for everyone
@Dargurd: Would you have said that if the old one had the same updates as the new one? Or if you had no way of connecting onto the New one because for some reason or another?




This is actually a good point that id not really thought about to be honest. If the old builder had received the updates then maybe it would have become great but sadly it didn't. I actually find myself liking the new builder and the direction they are taking it.

You are right that maybe not being able to get online would cause many people a problem. Im lucky that it doesnt cause me a problem as it stands and i dont see it doing. Players in my groups have always brought printed sheets with them anyway and update them on paper copies until they level up.



For those of you with kids please check out the D&D Parents Group. http://community.wizards.com/dndparents

you know you can level up and level down characters in the OCB. You just need to change the EXPS. 
you know you can level up and level down characters in the OCB. You just need to change the EXPS. 



Lol yes i know this. Its just always felt easier to make notes on the paper copies and update when levelling occurs.

For those of you with kids please check out the D&D Parents Group. http://community.wizards.com/dndparents

Do you really need unlimted PCs.  Why do you need more then 20 PCs.  Are you using them all?



yes you need far more, yes you use that many, when you play on the vt you will see what i mean. 20 is just nothing, you cant even have one build at every level with that. 100 minimum but i have far more than that already and its a hassle to have to export it every time. are they even big files? how many saved monsters are you thinking we should have on the cloud. i thought they made that unlimited. why unlimited monsters and only 20 pcs?

Do you really need unlimted PCs.  Why do you need more then 20 PCs.  Are you using them all?



yes you need far more, yes you use that many, when you play on the vt you will see what i mean. 20 is just nothing, you cant even have one build at every level with that. 100 minimum but i have far more than that already and its a hassle to have to export it every time. are they even big files? how many saved monsters are you thinking we should have on the cloud. i thought they made that unlimited. why unlimited monsters and only 20 pcs?




Isn't the monster builder still like the old CB where it is acutally on your computer?
from what i understand you can import/export as well as store on the program (cloud)

  • Import Function: You can easily import your content created in the previous version to the new version

  • Save Functionality: All content you create is saved to our database and is accessible through your D&D Insider account


maybe we cant export? who knows
Yeah, the new one will never be on par with the old one until you can make unlimited characters and update, level up, view, and retrain offline. Even now there are bugs in it that are not present in the offline builder.

It is getting better, but the OCB is nowhere near on 'par' with the CCB...



Do you really need unlimted PCs.  Why do you need more then 20 PCs.  Are you using them all?  Even if you put your friends PCs in your saying that you are playing in 4 games (assuming average of 5 players a game).





Some people don't actually play D&D. They prefer to build characters.

And that's not something that's bad. The same happens in Magic the Gathering. There are people that love to build decks.
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