[Deck] Food Chain Elves

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An old, but classic version of Elves! It forgoes the Glimpse of Nature with Nettle Sentinel and Heritage Druid engine of Elfball to play a stronger aggro plan in addition to Food Chain, an underrated and forgotten finisher. 

**Updated List as of 2/23/12

Lands (13)
12 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

Enchantment (4)
4 Food Chain

Sorcery (4)
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Creatures (39)
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Multani's Acolyte
4 Fierce Empath
1 Brass Herald
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Sylvan Messenger

Sideboard
3 Joraga Warcaller
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Scavenging Ooze


Food Chain is the deck's engine, and it's pretty much insane. It turns all of your creatures into Rite of Flame. Elvish Visionary is a Rite of Flame that cantrips. Fierce Empath is a RoF that finds your win condition. Sylvan Messenger and Brass Herald are RoFs with a bomb drawing effect. Llanowar Empath is to this deck what Raven Familiar is to Aluren. With 25 cards dedicated to cantripping or searching, you can see how quickly we draw through our deck with a Food Chain.
 
The strategy hasn't changed from 1999. Play mana elves, play Food Chain, play card draw elves, and win with a fattie. Before the printing of the Eldrazi, Food Chain had to diversify its creatures to overcome hate. Fortunately, Eldrazi's Annihilator is ridiculous and shuts down a majority of the decks in the field from one swing. A compact package of Fierce Empath targets means more redundancy in other areas of the deck.

We gained a lot of consistency when Priests five through eight and Acoyltes five through eight were printed. I ran eight Priests and eight Acolytes for over half a year before I found that I had too much redundancy in my cards. I needed more ways to interact with my opponents and a backup to Food Chain; hence I dropped Multani's Acolyte and a couple Elvish Archdruid for Fauna Shaman and Vengevine.

Although I made some changes, continuously pumping outs threats is the trade-off. Wins are possible without Food Chain, thanks to Fauna Shaman into Vengevine. Don't be afraid to have Food Chain eat Vv either. They turn into an easy five, ten, or fifteen mana for Emrakul or bash in for four to twelve. One of our greatest strengths is that, depending on the situation, we change our role to either combo or aggro, and due to our tremendous amount of card advantage, we can actually make that transition midgame.

Much like Elfball, we can win turn two. In our case:
Turn 1: Forest >> Llanowar Elves/Fyndhorn Elves >> Go 
Turn 2: Forest >> Food Chain >> chain mana elf into Elvish Visionary >> chain Visionary into Fierce Empath fetching Regal Force >> chain Empath into Sylvan Messenger/Llanowar Empath
By now we should be safely drawing more card digging elves. Obviously this isn't the only line of play for a turn two win, but you get the idea.

Despite its appearence, the deck is just as busted as Glimpse Elves. We play the same number of "I win" spells as they do - four. In fact, a strong argument is that Food Chain has a higher percent chance of going off when played compared to Glimpse due to its "draw fours" and ability to dig deeper with its combo pieces. This deck is seriously consistent with our cards basically filling one of two roles (mana or draw), we have a lot of overlap. It should be noted that building a deck around creatures has its perks. We will never idly sit there, like some combo has a tendancy to do. Using smart blocks will get you far with this deck and can oftentimes push us into the late game if we need to dig up a second Food Chain or Shaman.

Unlike Elfball, we have cards that dig through our deck without having to commit our business spell. This isn't a huge advantage in immediately winning the game, but it does allow us to bait more counters from our opponent. Wirewood Symbiote is a card advantage engine and a measure of protection all on its own. Plus, it turns Fauna Shaman into Survival of the Fittest, even moreso with a Ranger

I'm at the point with my sideboard that I'm not changing anything for a couple months so I can really get a feel for what cards are useful. I've been too hasty to reject cards from my board without giving them ample time to be tested. Joraga Warcaller is the best Elf lord in my opinion, and really changes the deck from combo to all-out aggro. Phyrexian Revoker is this deck's Pithing Needle. He's basically a catch-all, hitting everything from Planeswalkers to annoying artifacts, like Jitte, to nightmare creatures, like Grim Lavamancer. We can also tutor it up with Fauna Shaman, which is important.

You may notice that there is only one removal spell in the entire 75: Duplicant. I know the card looks terrible at first, but it's impecible how well it works with Food Chain. Even after you Chain him, their creature remains exiled. This means we can play him, eat him with Chain, and still have removed their problematic creature. He is also the only answer to an Emrakul from our opponent. We can exile theirs in our chain, find ours, and win.

The fourth Vengevine doesn't need much explanation. Bring it in when you're planning on Vengevines taking the game. Then we have some artifact and enchantment hate in Viridian Shaman and Krosan Grip, which only need to hate out a select number of cards. Don't bring them in just because you'll have something spicy to hit with them. Instead, think if their artifact or enchantment is actually going to prevent you from winning. If so, go ahead and bring them in.

I keep going back and forth on the Symbiotes. First, they were in the board. Then, they were in the maindeck. The thing about Symbiote I've noticed is that they are only in the deck to win attrition wars and rarely contribute to the combo gameplan. We aren't like Elfball in that Symbiote actually nets us mana and cards. Instead, we lose mana each time we activate Symbiote since we have to recast that creature and we rely on eating dudes with Food Chain to actually net any mana. However, they are very powerful with Visionary and find Food Chain better than any other available options without splashing. Plus, red is a tremendously popular support color at the moment, and Elves hate red, so they need to be in the main until the red tide subsides. 

Here's a breakdown of our matches with the current Decks to Beat and boarding strategies for game two in a vaccuum: 

Rock - We can try to make up for discard with our draw elves. They'll oftentimes pluck Food Chain turn one with Thoughtseize, making the combo difficult to complete. This is a matchup where keeping a hand without FC can sometimes be a better plan. If we mise one then we can win on the spot due to their lack of counters. You just have to dig one up and you should have time to do so since we can stall the ground against their 12 creatures. Symbiote is an all-star against their limited spot removal.

Merfolk - The truest test of your deck's Legacy viability. If you have a bad Merfolk matchup, reconsider the deck you're playing. That's what I always think when I'm entering a 1.5 tournament. So, it should go without saying we have a pretty good matchup here. We play zero islands (suck it Lord of Atlantis), one nonbasic we ramp into (suck it Wasteland), we both have similar curves, except we win with a combo finish. With no spot removal, we can get on Priests or Shaman if our FC is countered and vice versa. We play more relevant threats than they do counterspells. Daze is terrible against us since we can wait one turn, play a mana dork, and be safe for the rest of the game. We minimize our risk by only playing 4 sorceries for Cursecatcher, but we can drop GSZ turn one if on the play. That only leaves Force as the only problematic counter for Food Chain. Games two and three they'll save FoW for FC, unless they are bad, but I sometimes side it out anyways and change again before game three. This leaves them uncertain of what to counter, thinking that a FC will come down next. Both Vv and Warcaller post-board are brutal for them. In other words, both plans work. We can Jedi mind trick them in between games by shuffling all 15 in while siding, which is always amusing.

Blade Control - They'll definitely have some counters for us and you can count on one StP, at least. Run out test spells in the form of Priest and Shaman before playing FC (this is the case against all blue actually). Their clock is very slow, giving us time to find either a FC or extra Priest to pump out an Eldrazi. Humility leaves us dead in the water if they find one, so just be aware of that. Ensnaring Bridge can also leave us with no way to win. They're blue control, we're green combo with no protection: side out the combo. Leave in Emrakul to either shuffle back Viridian Shaman, if necessary, or to go bonkers with Priests.

Reanimator - They have first turn Entomb, Careful Study, Brainstorm, Daze, Force of Will, and Hapless Researcher available. That's a lot more plays than we have first turn. Force of Will is as good as always and Daze is actually a problem in this match since a single reanimation spell will end the game. They play a faster gameplan than us, plain and simple, so their tempo counters can actually work better than Merfolk's. Unfortunately, they play an absolute house of a reanimation target in Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. Commonly, they'll have a game winning threat turn two or three meaning our first few turns are crucial. Look for fast hands and expect Priests and Shaman to oftentimes be too slow.

GW Maverick - StP, if well placed, can set us back. They all play 4 GSZ and that sucks for us. Scavenging Ooze can shut down our Vengevines if they play it, so be aware. Qasali Pridemage stops FC unless you play it after you have a lot of creatures on board (sac everything to FC in response to QP destroy ability). Aven Mindcensor can counter a Fierce Empath, so check if they are leaving 3 mana open before you throw one out there. This is a swing match - 50/50. You can steal any game against them with the combo, but they can draw the right mix to really punish us too. This is really an attrition matchup, except we have a combo finish available. Always go for the combo first and leave Shaman as a backup here. 

Natural Order RUG
-  Fire // Ice is rough, no doubt. Grim Lavamancer can eat us up if we let creatures linger on the board. Plus, they run Bolt, which is functionally better than StP against everything but Vines. Our best chance for games two and three is to hit them with Vengevines, but getting those out requires Shaman or mana guys to survive - that's a problem. I'm skeptical about our chances to combo anytime I get paired up against them, so I have found G2 and G3 work out better in beatdown mode.

Team America -  Quick, think of a list of decks colder to Vengevine beatdown than TA. Pretty short, isn't it? I was having major troubles beating TA because I was always going for the combo. I found Food Chain will get nabbed by any Thoughtseize and Hymn can really slow us down. Soon after losing several matches in a row, I switched directions and started getting Vengevines.  Vengevine laughs at their removal suite of GftT, Snuff Out, Dismember or whatever they have, so don't even worry about going for the combo game two. It's kinda hard to lose thanks to 4/3 plants with Haste.

Zoo - If Qasali Pridemage is in play before Food Chain comes down, then we won't be able to combo. Expect their deck to pack at least 8 burn spells, plus Grim Lavamancer, all of which are a beating. Despite this being a traditionally positive matchup (combo vs. aggro), we are pretty susceptible to a lot of their cards. Path to Exile is actually not one of the worst. If they hit a mana dork with PtE, then be sure to thank them after the game. Essentially, Priest, Shaman, and Vv are the only targets that make sense, so remember that. Keep the combo in for all three games as they only have a few Pridemages, and our aggro can't beat theirs since they are supplemented by burn. Symbiotes and Warcallers out of the board make this match a lot better since all their removal is essentially turned off.

Dredge - There isn't much to say about this matchup. Cabal Therapy will wreck any Food Chain plans you have, so we're usually reliant on aggro (or mising FC). The problem is Vv aggro can't possibly compete with Dredge's ability to flood the board with little dorks. We'll have to hope they don't cast Breakthrough or activate Cephalid Coliseum, or we'll probably lose. Games two and three don't get any better since we have no dedicated graveyard hate. Siding in gy hate is not going to work anyways, as it's similar to Storm siding in something like Chain of Vapor: it'll dilute our deck too much. If you want a chance, play some Faerie Macabre in your side, but it's still an uphill battle.

TES/ANT/DDT/Fetchland Tendrils - Game one is going to be rough. We have hope to combo out turn two or three, otherwise they will. They play protection in Duress, Thoughtseize, Orim's Chant, or Silence, depending on the deck. Those cards interact with us in ways that make me sick, especially Chant and Silence as we telegraph our plays with Messenger, Fierce Empath, Llanowar Empath, and Herald. This is a bad match up, so it's not really worth dedicating sideboard space to fight it. All of the storm decks can kill us before we'd get to play our hate anyways. You can bring in all the Phyrexian Revokers to name Lion's Eye Diamond, then Lotus Petal if you draw a second. That's still a slow plan, but we have to rely on them stumbling a bit in the first place.
I love this deck. I'm half-ass trying to beef up my legacy G/R deck and this is quite close to what I was going for. I'm getting back into mtg after more than a decade off so I'm still unfamiliar with all the new combos and such so, pardon my naivety but you mention a "turn two win..." and you gave the scenario for it. I'm counting only 5 mana by the end of turn two. :-?

I can see how the thumpers would come out pretty quickly though.

Again, for what's it worth, I like it.

B

ETA: If your combos aren't coming up as designed, would Elvish Pipers be something worth adding to get your heavy hitters out there? Just curious...
Elvish Piper is too slow. You don't want to Food Chain into something like Piper because you'd have to stop comboing and wait a turn for him to be active. You are usually chaining one elf at a time. Especially if you are going off T2 or T3. 

Here's how you'd go off T2.
T1 - Forest, Llanowar/Fyndhorn Elves, pass.
T2- Forest, tap 2 Forest and mana elf, Food Chain, chain the mana elf into a 2-drop (Priest, Acolyte, Visionary), chain the 2-drop into a 3-drop (Fierce Empath, Archdruid), chain the 3-drop into Sylvan or LLanowar Empath and at that point you should have found more card draw elves to go off. You obviously are aiming for 15 mana. 

The first Fierce Empath gets Brass Herald 99% of the time. 
Glimpse of Nature

Or Multani's Presence/Gaea's Herald for the control matchup. 
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Elvish Piper is too slow. You don't want to Food Chain into something like Piper because you'd have to stop comboing and wait a turn for him to be active. You are usually chaining one elf at a time. Especially if you are going off T2 or T3. 

Here's how you'd go off T2.
T1 - Forest, Llanowar/Fyndhorn Elves, pass.
T2- Forest, tap 2 Forest and mana elf, Food Chain, chain the mana elf into a 2-drop (Priest, Acolyte, Visionary), chain the 2-drop into a 3-drop (Fierce Empath, Archdruid), chain the 3-drop into Sylvan or LLanowar Empath and at that point you should have found more card draw elves to go off. You obviously are aiming for 15 mana. 



Ah.... getting it.... getting it...

thx!

b
It seems like this deck would do some pretty stupid things if you included Protean Hulk for it's sweet interaction with Food Chain. Not that it can't already but this can tutor for enough gas to cast emrakul all on his own.

*Edit: or not... stupid exile mechanic.
Updated OP with current list and sideboard. I'll add some match-up analysis and sideboarding plans soon if anyone is interested. 
Bump.
why Brass Herald and Kozilek over Joraga Warcaller + Concordant Crossroads?
Brass Herald acts as another Sylvan Messenger and adds 7 mana to your pool from Food Chain whereas Warcaller is only good if you have lots of mana and if removed, will only add 2 to your pool.  Koz draws cards, Crossroads doesn't.

Warcaller is also in the sideboard for games 2 and 3, just in case you'd rather go the aggro plan instead of the Eldrazi.
You play Brass Herald because Sylvan Messenger is your draw engine. So you play eight of them, and I'm considering dropping the Regal Force for a second Herald. And BH is an exceptionally strong Empath target, and works perfectly with elves fast mana strategy. And it's a lord to boot. 

Concordont Crossroads actually slows you down a turn, so it's not in here for that reason.
yeah i goldfished this and i totally see why Brass Herald is there... my bad XD
I wish every person would pick up and goldfish this list. More people would start to recognize how this deck can be a busted combo that can race Ichorid and TES or a grinding aggro deck with more card advantage than the control decks of the format (if there are any right now). 

And while I just said we can race Ichorid and TES, I'll also say they are one of our worst matchups because they can be inherently more broken than we can. They're nuts > our nuts, but our Plan B > their Plan B, which is the ultimate trade off. So while they auto lose to cards like Trini and Chalice, we don't. Still, it's not like our Plan B is what we go for against opposing combo decks, so that's why they're still bad matchups for us.

We have an incredible game against the other tribes. Merfolk and Goblins should not be a problem for FC Elves. Neither of them can compete with our card advantage, and they can both be rolled appropriately because of it. We can seriously chump them forever. SGCs from Gobbos and flying Coralhelm Commanders from Folk are probably the scariest things to us, so it's time to win when you see those. We are immune to their Wastelands, which is a thing of beauty. And while they're ticking up their Vials, we're dumping more Elves on the battlefield at a faster pace.

Black based aggro can suck sometimes. It all depends on how much discard they draw and if we kept a weak hand. We'll recover from discard just fine if we stuck a Melf or two, and if they play any creatures on the ground then we'll still chump them forever. The flyers out of black can be a beating against us though and I should probably address them somehow in my 75.
...I didn't even know of this deck. Thank you SO much, I'm gonna give it a try. :D
I think playing Wirewood Symbiote would add a bit more flexibility here by giving a ridiculous draw engine and powerful mana engine with Priest and Archdruid.
Im afraid theres not enought draw , or is there?
Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest seeds. Life must die, and death must live. -Creed of Necromancy by Vanisher
Im afraid theres not enought draw , or is there?



You're funny. Isn't the deck like 75 % draw?
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
Im afraid theres not enought draw , or is there?



You're funny. Isn't the deck like 75 % draw?

Well there are the sylvans and the other draw elves, but if s
you draw something unuseful or something with to high a mana cost , your screwed 
Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest seeds. Life must die, and death must live. -Creed of Necromancy by Vanisher
Im afraid theres not enought draw , or is there?



You're funny. Isn't the deck like 75 % draw?

Well there are the sylvans and the other draw elves, but if s
you draw something unuseful or something with to high a mana cost , your screwed 



You could always include Glimpse of Nature. Pure overkill, card draw-wise.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
Im afraid theres not enought draw , or is there?



You're funny. Isn't the deck like 75 % draw?

Well there are the sylvans and the other draw elves, but if s
you draw something unuseful or something with to high a mana cost , your screwed 



You could always include Glimpse of Nature. Pure overkill, card draw-wise.

The problem is is that you cant use the food chain mana for glimpse(only on creatures) , and since there is no crossroads you cant use titania and archdruid right away.
Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest seeds. Life must die, and death must live. -Creed of Necromancy by Vanisher
Im afraid theres not enought draw , or is there?



You're funny. Isn't the deck like 75 % draw?

Well there are the sylvans and the other draw elves, but if s
you draw something unuseful or something with to high a mana cost , your screwed 



You could always include Glimpse of Nature. Pure overkill, card draw-wise.

The problem is is that you cant use the food chain mana for glimpse(only on creatures) , and since there is no crossroads you cant use titania and archdruid right away.



Just splash red and use Slagstorm over and over. It will certainly confuse your opponent.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
just tested it , it runs out of gas fast
Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest seeds. Life must die, and death must live. -Creed of Necromancy by Vanisher
i have this deck just changed the 2 llanowar empaths with genesis wave and works great! very cheap deck as well.
I hope you're not casting Genesis Wave with mana from Food Chain.
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I hope you're not casting Genesis Wave with mana from Food Chain.

of course not. with 8 priest effects and mana elves you can net a lot for genesis wave if that is you dont have the food chain yet in play.
Genesis Wave is incredible in an eight Priest build, no question, but maybe not this one. We are concerned with abusing FC first because we should win on the spot if it resolves. GW might be more appropriate in an eight Priest, twelve or more lord build. It could be used in a sideboard plan for this deck to transform into an all out aggro deck against blue. But you can't really use Warcaller with it, which is unfortunate. You'd probably run Imperious Perfect and/or Elvish Champion. This is all speculation.
Genesis Wave is incredible in an eight Priest build, no question, but maybe not this one. We are concerned with abusing FC first because we should win on the spot if it resolves. GW might be more appropriate in an eight Priest, twelve or more lord build. It could be used in a sideboard plan for this deck to transform into an all out aggro deck against blue. But you can't really use Warcaller with it, which is unfortunate. You'd probably run Imperious Perfect and/or Elvish Champion. This is all speculation.

genesis wave fits perfectly for my build since it can dig for food chain as well. my build has 4 quirion rangers to abuse priests and no warcallers main. just straight for the fc combo casting eldrazis
Bump
I updated the OP with my build and sideboard. Next week I'm going to sleeve this up for a change of pace from Dredge. The Empath targets in my board are specific to my meta, so don't mindlessly use them and wonder why they aren't helping. Each time I play this deck I find myself liking Llanowar Empath less and less. It's just not powerful enough on its own, and it's hard to set up with a Visionary or Acolyte as they should have been used already.  

This could be exciting to actually get some changes in the maindeck. 

Any ideas for those 2 spots?
Well, I'm not sure how this deck is positioned in the new metagame. I'm going to try out alternate win conditions in the maindeck because my shop knows about the Food Chain plan. The beatdown plan hasn't been working as well as I would like. And the second Brass Herald is performing mediocre - basically as a 6 mana Messenger. The +1/+1 he contributes has been moot a majority of the games I've played. If I want beatdown to be my secondary win con, then I think I need to maindeck Warcallers, as they are the only Elf that'll transform my deck into that role.

But that isn't the role I want for my alt win. I still want some sort of bomb, comboish card that'll be decisive on the spot. The cards I'm considering at this point include:

Natural Order - the number one contender, too bad they're over 40 a piece.
Genesis Wave - will only give me a bunch of 1/1s and 2/2s (most likely)

I've already considered what this would do to my Messenger odds, and the answer was "not much." We'd still run more Elves than Goblins run of their namesake, and they use 4 Ringleader successfully. The changes I'm proposing:

-2 Llanowar Empath, -1 Multani's Acolyte, -1 Fyndhorn Elves, -1 Brass Herald
+4 Natural Order, +1 Progenitus

I'm not running out to buy these without extensive testing, but it'll have to be online, which doesn't feel like much of a true test to be honest. Still, I'm certain the increase of threats to the deck will only provide more wins. I'll consider the number of times I'm going off with FC that I get stuck with a new card in my hand, and weigh that against the number of successful chains.

Does anyone care to shed some light on these new ideas?
I've had a revelation about the alternate win condition with this deck. After drawing Natural Order or Progenitus so many times while trying to combo, I found that I had diluted the deck too much by adding five extra cards that don't, at the very least, turn into a Rite of Flame. This secondary approach cannot be mutually exclusive from Food Chain, like Natural Order. And so, I decided Fauna Shaman and Vengevine are a nice fit in this deck. I already play 4 Quirion Ranger and 4 Wirewood Symbiote, which makes the Shaman even better. I don't even need 4 Vengevine as 3 will definitely be enough to overwhelm the decks I would even need to go that angle against (Team America, NO RUG, Merfolk).
Updated OP with DtB matchups.
Shameless bump.

I've added GSZ to the deck for more consistency. The deck has really changed directions from the original list. The first list was strictly combo focused. It didn't have any protection, its creature quality was very low, and had one path to victory. Now, the list plays GSZ and Fauna Shaman as tutors, completely altering the tempo of the deck, while allowing Food Chain Elves to work in a different way.

More often than not, even if I can play Food Chain turn two, I don't anymore. It doesn't make sense to commit the card that will definitely win me the game in a few turns now, when it may not do anything, because I need a Shaman or Priest active. Oftentimes, I find myself using Shaman to get a Vv or two into play to be eaten by FC and cast the Emrakul sitting in my hand. Of course, you can still chain Messengers and Fierce Empaths to "go off", but that plan is riskier now with less density of card drawing elves.

The balance of elves and non-elves is becoming a problem. Not having 4 Wirewood Symbiote also feels like a problem. I can't cut any additional elves from the list. In fact, I'd like to add more. Currently, the deck is split at 30 elf and 30 non-elf, averaging 2 elf per Messenger, which is decent. As I said before, I can't go lower than this elf count. If anyone sees a way to add the fourth Symbiote without cutting any elves, let me know, because I can't.

FCE was never the fastest combo in the first place. It only made sense to slow the deck down some for more resiliency and diversity, considering legacy's varying hate on a week-to-week basis. I've basically said "screw it" to to combo matchup as I should have done when I originally built my list. If I get paired against it, oh well, I'll probably lose. If they stumble, I have a small chance. That's just the way things are.

I'm taking this to a tournament this weekend, so I'll write a report afterwards.

 
The card you are missing is deranged hermit... He cost 5 and food chains for 10, not to mention he is an elf, and he is an amazing plan b strategy. He can also be used as bait for get counterspells out of the hand and then follow up with food chain!

The deck has a pretty good matchup against maverick unless you get unlucky. It also has a good matchup against aggro decks in general.  Also if you are concerned about your combo match up you can run trinisphere yourself. Since most of your spells that become relevant are FE SM Deranged Hermit and BH  they all cost more than 3 anyways. Possibly consider panglacial wurm and myojin...the one that draws cards.  Wood elves is a house in this deck cause it pulls lands out of the deck so you dont draw them with messenger and BH.

PM if you want to talk more about it
 
(thread is 6+ months old)

If you're gonna bring this back for anything, look at the new griffin spoiler that goes infinite with Food Chain.
(thread is 6+ months old)

If you're gonna bring this back for anything, look at the new griffin spoiler that goes infinite with Food Chain.

Yeah and thats why im revisiting food chain. The only problem is that I cant figure out how to tutor him with creatures or make it consistent enough. Any Ideas