02/23/2011 BoaB: "Steeling the Show"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Flayer Husk also fits in this type of deck.
I'm not really sure what happened in the Kuldotha Red match. In Game 3 the last sentence says the opponent drew a burn and "I was dead," but it shows up as a victory.
Yeah, I noticed that, too.  Adding up all the damage, it looks like he was at 2 when the opponent drew the Forked Bolt, which meant that he did in fact lose the first match.  Oh, well.
Hi, i really like this deck , but would like to add some money to it if that would improve the Win/Loss ratio. What would be some good ideas? So far, i have been thinking of the following cards:

Baneslayer Angel
Mox Opal
Ajani Goldmane?
Indomitable Angel

I was thinking about what to take out and i'm not sure if it is worth taking anything out. I'm not really high on Vector Asp , but that would take away from the "aggro" theme. Basiclly i'm lost at the moment so any input (good or bad) would be helpful.

Thanks!
Sorry about the back to back posts , but i'm thinking about the mid to long range game. I'm concerned about "running out of steam". Would it be ideal to devote some slots (6?) to that concern without destroying the "aggro" theme?


Thanks again for helping the rookie!
Generally you dont want to add something with cc4 or more to a deck like this. The mox Opals is where to start if youre adding money, inkmoth nexus could have a home in the deck also. Adding swords to the sb, or maybe moving the quest package main is also a concideration. 
Stoneforge mystic could be an option, with either the norma armor/swords package, but also maybe some combination of the living weapons to make for card advantage.

The most important part though is to not get stuck with cards that look good on paper, but dosent help the deck achieve its goal (killing as fasty as possible). Theres a reason it plays vector asp after all.

 

Hi, i really like this deck , but would like to add some money to it if that would improve the Win/Loss ratio. What would be some good ideas? So far, i have been thinking of the following cards:

Baneslayer Angel
......!



Cards that cost 5 are not a good fit in decks with only 20 land, by the time you can cast this agro would have won already, and control decks will have the game under control so you won't get to use it.



Ajani Goldmane?



This one is more interesting, it is another way of buffing your guys, +1/+1 and vigilence could be a beating for Kuldotha red, or the life gain may be beneficial, but witth the number of printings of Ajani G, it probably qualifies as budget anyway, so I wonder if it has been considered and ruled out, or if it was just overlooked. Could R/W tokens be the new B/W tokens? probably not.


Mox Opal



Definately a good fit, the artical even siggests swapping out certain cards for the moxen if you have them.


Indomitable Angel

!



What do you think this does for you? when your guys all cost 1 or 0 you shouldn't worry about spot removal, sweepers are your enemy and Indomitable Angel does nothing against them. The only card it is useful against is arc trail, but they would have already played it before the angel hits play. Unless you are just playing it as a 4/4 flyer for 4 to recover after a sweeper.

I'd rather run the blue splash and counters (unified will) against sweepers
I really liked this article and deck design.  It is absolutely a budget deck that is competitive and can be fun to play.  I think I might take something similar to this for game day.
I second the Flayer Husk. Seems like a 20% upgrade over the asp.
at first I agreed that flayer Husk > vector asp

I wonder if it was overlooked due to gatherer search "artifact, creatures, cmc = 1".

Husk is worse against go for the throat
Germ token can be bounced

these seem pretty fringe, and it's better in other cases such as equipment sticking around to boost subsequent creature damage after a sweeper or trade.

But the big downside is no boost from tempered steel to the flayer husk germ! so I'think both may have merits, only testing can be sure which is best against each match.
Dread Statuary could give you some additional late-game punch that is also immune to sorcery-speed removal and Ratchet Bomb (although is obviously vulnerable to Tectonic Edge). You don't really need that much colored mana, do you?
During his third game versus Kuldotha Red, he said his opponent cast a Chrome Mox... I'm sure he meant a Mox Opal?
But the big downside is no boost from tempered steel to the flayer husk germ!


Exactly. This deck doesn't want to spend :2mana: to grant one creature a marginal boost. This deck wants to have already won at that stage.
But the big downside is no boost from tempered steel to the flayer husk germ!


Exactly. This deck doesn't want to spend :2mana: to grant one creature a marginal boost. This deck wants to have already won at that stage.



it's not spending 2 for a marginal boost, it's spending 1 for a 1/1 (same as vector asp) and then potentially 1 more to boost another creature once the germ is killed. But the interaction of steel overseer and tempered steel with asp is much better.

Add some proliferate with the Steel Overseer, and it is sweeeet, sweet victory!
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Perfect addition! Linvala, Keeper of Silence! She is cheap at four mana, but a serious budget wrecker. Her ability makes it so that your opponent can't use creature based abilities at you.
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I just can not see these types of decks working with Valakut being so prevalent. Any deck that packs Pyroclasm pretty much just destroys these strategies (in the first game against the Valakut deck the player for some reason blew his Pyroclasm on his own main phase, which makes absolutely no sense, and definitely would have blown the deck out if he had correctly played it during your turn).

As much as I love decks like this and Kuldotha Red, Pyroclasm (not to mention DoJ, Black Sun's Zenith, or Slagstorm) just absolutely crush them. If the metagame swings dramatically enough towards control then maybe just maybe, but I tend not to play decks that just die to a single, commonly-played card. 
Safety from Chaos...
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I just can not see these types of decks working with Valakut being so prevalent. Any deck that packs Pyroclasm pretty much just destroys these strategies (in the first game against the Valakut deck the player for some reason blew his Pyroclasm on his own main phase, which makes absolutely no sense, and definitely would have blown the deck out if he had correctly played it during your turn).

Pyroclasm is a sorcery.

As much as I love decks like this and Kuldotha Red, Pyroclasm (not to mention DoJ, Black Sun's Zenith, or Slagstorm) just absolutely crush them. If the metagame swings dramatically enough towards control then maybe just maybe, but I tend not to play decks that just die to a single, commonly-played card. 


Yeah. The author should have included games that feature early opposing Pyroclasms so we can all see how much that card single-handedly blows this deck out of the water.

O wait...

It seems like Tempered Steel would protect you from Pyroclasm (although this is where the acceleration of Mox Opal comes in handy so you can get your enchantment out early).  Also, your Glint Hawk Idols are still safe. 

Too bad this isn't white weenie or else you could play brave the elements as your sweeper insurance. 
pyroclasm is not the disaster people are saying

1) can't hit idol
2) fails against toughness boost (+2/+2)
3) sideboarding into quest beats valakut
4) kuldotha goblins don't want to play it if they can help it.

Black Suns Zenith is simply too late
DoJ is a wrecker but still doesn't hit hawk also myr syr leaves token behind and you should have them nearly dead by then anyway. Unless they go Wall of omens, sea gate oracle, day of judgment.
The deck looks nice except for one thing.  It has no answer to Creeping Corrosion.  Myr Sire can help but your other artifacts will be gone.  Sam's deck was at least part blue, allowing for some counterspells.

I know that Creeping Corrosion isn't a highly seen sideboard card but it still should be accounted for.  If it isn't prepared for it can lead to some easy wins for the player using Creeping Corrosion.
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Creeping Corrosion is pretty hard to counter without using higher cost cards like Deathless Angel and such. Could splash and go with Withstand Death.
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Creeping Corrosion is pretty hard to counter without using higher cost cards like Deathless Angel and such. Could splash and go with Withstand Death.



Actually, it is easy to counter.  Blue has numerous counterspells, I tend to use Negate in my deck.  Black can use Memoricide to remove it entirely.  Mono white, however, has very little to prevent it from wrecking havoc.  Green could work but that only protects your creatures and not your non-creature artifacts.  Although the mono white artifact deck is mostly creatures anyway.
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Creeping Corrosion is pretty hard to counter without using higher cost cards like Deathless Angel and such. Could splash and go with Withstand Death.



Actually, it is easy to counter.  Blue has numerous counterspells, I tend to use Negate in my deck.  Black can use Memoricide to remove it entirely.  Mono white, however, has very little to prevent it from wrecking havoc.  Green could work but that only protects your creatures and not your non-creature artifacts.  Although the mono white artifact deck is mostly creatures anyway.



I am going to make this deck (PM me if you want to trade some of these cards for some awesome blue rares.) and I am going to splash it a different color. Of all of the colors, what would be the best splash? Blue?
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Creeping Corrosion is pretty hard to counter without using higher cost cards like Deathless Angel and such. Could splash and go with Withstand Death.



Actually, it is easy to counter.  Blue has numerous counterspells, I tend to use Negate in my deck.  Black can use Memoricide to remove it entirely.  Mono white, however, has very little to prevent it from wrecking havoc.  Green could work but that only protects your creatures and not your non-creature artifacts.  Although the mono white artifact deck is mostly creatures anyway.



I am going to make this deck (PM me if you want to trade some of these cards for some awesome blue rares.) and I am going to splash it a different color. Of all of the colors, what would be the best splash? Blue?



Blue might be best, probebly follow the Sam Black deck and have some blue sideboard cards.

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Ok, this looks like a really fun deck to play both casually and competitively. Price listed when I put this deck into deckbox pulls up at a little over $60 using avg prices on tcgplayer.com.

Anyway, I have a few substitution ideas, based on my own personal pool of cards... may not apply to everyone.

  1. 2x Plains -> 2x Inkmoth Nexus. This deck wants lots of artifact creatures. Obviously it's not an infect deck, but nexus is *yet another* creature that is immune to sorcery speed removal, and it's also immune to things like Creeping Corrosion. An inkmoth with 2 Tempered Steel in play is 5 poison counters if/when it connects. At the very least it can block a fatty when you need it to. It gives you a main-deck Plan B, which also contributes to your Plan A.

  2. 2x Vector Asp -> 2x Chimeric Mass. I think this fits better. For 1 colorless you still get a 1/1. If you have 2, you get a 2/2 etc. Yes, there's an activation cost. But now, the deck is even more resilient towards creature hate.

  3. 2x Vector Asp -> 2x Silverskin Armor. I am not sure about this. I would have to play the deck with this change quite a bit to determine if it improved things overall or not. Equipping silverskin on your Glint Hawk or Ardent Recruit suddenly makes it that much better. The expense of silverskin is what worries me. Maybe it would be better to leave 2x Vector Asp alone, or perhaps run 4 Chimeric Mass.

  4. 2x Myr Sire -> 2x Phyrexian Revoker. This shouldn't really need any explanation. "Day of Judgement", "Kuldotha Rebirth", "Pyroclasm", "Creeping Corrosion", etc.

Also, I noticed people suggesting Flayer Husk, on the surface this does seem like an excellent card to play, however it's got one fatal flaw: Germs aren't artifact creatures.

EDIT: my bad, I was misreading Phyrexian Revoker. I'd take Perilous Myr or maybe even Gold Myr instead. Or just stick with Myr Sire.

Refraction trap in the SB is super pyroclasm hate, and day of judgement is a t4 drop which this deck could hope to survive from. Additions that could be made is the Ajani Goldmane, maybe as a 1 or 2 of, and Chimeric Mass as a 2-4 of. Of course, Mox Opal is welcome. Myr Sire is a card that I have been looking at for this deck, but I'm not totally convinced yet. For more insight into this deck, find the thread in Standard Deck Help. Its called W artifact aggro or something along those lines. There are a bigillion posts.  

Hi, i really like this deck , but would like to add some money to it if that would improve the Win/Loss ratio. What would be some good ideas? So far, i have been thinking of the following cards:

Baneslayer Angel
Mox Opal
Ajani Goldmane?
Indomitable Angel

I was thinking about what to take out and i'm not sure if it is worth taking anything out. I'm not really high on Vector Asp , but that would take away from the "aggro" theme. Basiclly i'm lost at the moment so any input (good or bad) would be helpful.

Thanks!



Here are possible options

Sllvok Lifestaff  (life gain makes attacking/blocking more aggressive)
Elixir of Immortality (life gain is good, and the other ability is just a bonus)
Crystal Ball (eh at 3cc is it worth it I don't know, but probably best option to reorder your library)




Or maybe add a few Brave the Elements.

(Is nobody wanting to trade this stuff? Sad day..)
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Talking about utilizing the Tempered Steel against the pysoclasm and other damage spells, what about the usage of Silverskin Armor? While cc and equip costs are double the Flayer Husk, it does turn any creature artifact. Anyone think it might have a place?

Talking about utilizing the Tempered Steel against the pysoclasm and other damage spells, what about the usage of Silverskin Armor? While cc and equip costs are double the Flayer Husk, it does turn any creature artifact. Anyone think it might have a place?




I'd say it just costs too much. The artifact thing is only relevant on 25% of your creatures (and note that without Tempered Steel, most of your creatures still die to Pyroclasm that way), and it's otherwise a lot worse than Vulshok Morningstar or even Flayer Husk. The Argentum Armor package works very well. Alternatively, you could use one of the mythic Swords for mad power.

I think Darksteel Axe would work better than Silverskin Armor, but I don't think I'd play that either.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Talking about utilizing the Tempered Steel against the pysoclasm and other damage spells, what about the usage of Silverskin Armor? While cc and equip costs are double the Flayer Husk, it does turn any creature artifact. Anyone think it might have a place?




I'd say it just costs too much. The artifact thing is only relevant on 25% of your creatures (and note that without Tempered Steel, most of your creatures still die to Pyroclasm that way), and it's otherwise a lot worse than Vulshok Morningstar or even Flayer Husk. The Argentum Armor package works very well. Alternatively, you could use one of the mythic Swords for mad power.

I think Darksteel Axe would work better than Silverskin Armor, but I don't think I'd play that either.



Vulshok Morningstar isn't Standard-legal.

This deck wants to be as fast as possible. Equipment is not going to help with that goal. What it really would benefit from is some cheap cantrips. What those would be, I'm not sure.

Another option might be to play 4x Seize the Initiative.

EDIT: Maybe 2x Seize the Initiative and 2x Emerge Unscathed? The former lets you keep board presence in a fight, the latter lets you smash through provided they dont have any artifact creatures as blockers. 
Talking about utilizing the Tempered Steel against the pysoclasm and other damage spells, what about the usage of Silverskin Armor? While cc and equip costs are double the Flayer Husk, it does turn any creature artifact. Anyone think it might have a place?




I'd say it just costs too much. The artifact thing is only relevant on 25% of your creatures (and note that without Tempered Steel, most of your creatures still die to Pyroclasm that way), and it's otherwise a lot worse than Vulshok Morningstar or even Flayer Husk. The Argentum Armor package works very well. Alternatively, you could use one of the mythic Swords for mad power.

I think Darksteel Axe would work better than Silverskin Armor, but I don't think I'd play that either.



Vulshok Morningstar isn't Standard-legal.

This deck wants to be as fast as possible. Equipment is not going to help with that goal. What it really would benefit from is some cheap cantrips. What those would be, I'm not sure.

Another option might be to play 4x Seize the Initiative.

EDIT: Maybe 2x Seize the Initiative and 2x Emerge Unscathed? The former lets you keep board presence in a fight, the latter lets you smash through provided they dont have any artifact creatures as blockers. 



Obviously, Vulshok Morningstar isn't Standard-legal, but I'm just saying that Silverskin Armor compares pretty badly to the Morningstar and even that would not be playable in this deck.

Emerge Unscathed would be a reasonable idea, I'd say. But it still kind of pulls away from the focus of the deck, which is to just lay down creatures and attack. Besides, you'll mostly be playing it on one of your five or six creatures, all of which are about 3/3.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
I didn't really like the deck this week, but then again, I'm not an aggressive player. Better luck next week for me
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I thought about using flayer husk too, but then i dismissed it, because flayer husk is not an artifact creature like Vector Asp.  So it would not receive the benefits of Tempered steel in the long run.
I was going to run this deck for gameday, but would like to take out the Myr Sires for some other, non-Phyrexian cards.

Obviously, Mox Opal could replace some of them, but I don't have any (and don't want to destroy my budget).

 My top choices are Accorder Paladin, Hero of Bladehold, or Infiltration Lens, but I wasn't sure which ones, and how many.

I also considered Shimmer Myr and Master's Call to help post-Slagstorm or Pyroclasm.

I've already swapped out the Vector Asp's for Chimeric Mass, so that isn't really an option.
Now this is a budget deck that I can approve of! What's listed works very well as a jumping off point. I got rid of some creatures to run Journey to Nowhere and Origin Spellbomb. It also gave me some fun ideas for Pauper. Glint Hawk can combo with Lotus Petal and Phyrexian Walker, then you can throw in some equipment like Flayer Husk and Bonesplitter to start a white Metalcraft deck.