02/17/2011 FtL: "Hearts of Darkness"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Wait, how DOES Turn to Mist interact with Massacre Wurm? Do my opponent's creatures get -2/-2 for the duration of the turn and then another -2/-2 on top of it when it comes back, or do they get -2/-2 and then -2/-2 again next turn?

In rules terms: does the first -2/-2 go away before the Wurm returns "at end of turn," at the same time, or after?
They wear of at the clean up step, which is the last part of the ending phase.  So yes, they will get a total of -4/-4.

No Hermit Druid?  The super milling card of green?
I am listening to NIN while reading this :O

I miss Gix and Yawgy. Those guys made magic exciting. 
When I first saw Praetor's Counsel, my first thought was to make a UG aggro/control deck. Traumatize yourself, cast the Counsel the next turn, and effectively draw 20 cards (Start out with 60, your opening hand is 7, casting Praetor's Counsel requires at least eight cards in play assuming one mana per land/Elf/Myr, and chances are you'll draw some cards in there in addition to the two combo cards and mana acceleration, so overall, roughly 20), and then just win by casting three or four spells per turn and attacking with more creatures than your opponent. I hadn't thought about how to get your entire library into your hand, but if that's what you want then black would be the way to go, yeah.
A rough, spur-of-the-moment version of what I had in mind:

Hada Spy Patrol and the Sphinx of Lost Truths are the main win conditions. Both are evasive, and both have other benefits as well: the patrol also gets shroud and the Sphinx also lets you discard any cards you may have drawn that are useless after the combo goes off. (Note, though, that a second Counsel isn't useless, because it gives you back any creatures that were destroyed by your opponent or any instants and sorceries that were already cast.) Strength of the Tajuru turns anything into a viable threat, even the Hada Spy Patrol if it's cast before the patrol is fully leveled. I'm unsure of whether it's worth including the Myr; they could be replaced by some control effects or more unblockable weenies, like Neurok Invisimancer in particular. The Elixir, of course, is to keep from decking yourself.

This deck could support a completely different strategy post-sideboarding, by replacing the weenies and the Strength of the Tajuru with Tome Scour and Archive Trap; drawing 20+ cards makes it very likely that you'll have a Traumatize or two to aim at your opponent even after you cast one on yourself, and then two or three Tome Scours/Archive Traps could reduce the cards in their library to zero. (Or maybe it would make more sense to make that the main strategy. The deck relies on Traumatize and Praetor's Counsel no matter what, so you could sideboard out the Tome Scour and Trap and put in unblockable weenies after your opponent puts in something to address sorceries.)

Now that I write down a list, this deck probably isn't all that great, but it is Standard-legal. Hmmm...
I think its a nice idea to combine the basic mill card Traumatize with something that is versatile like the counsel. first milling yourself than the opponent to have the card advantage. It might be a bit slow but I like that its standart legal. If it works out, your opponant will feel totaly depressed..

As always, from the lab gives some funny ideas of how to find use in old cards by combining them with new ones.
I also admire that you think of the flavour of the cards, I played Ring of Gix with Royal Assassin back in the days, and your article made me remember these good old times. (everyone else played icy :P )
You missed Forbidden Orchard in your Massacre Wurm-deck!
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I liked all the decks today. All of them creative and looking nice.

However, I still can't help it but feel like the last deck could just win rightaway after getting counsel / shift trick going. You see, if the deck just has 3 simian spirit guides and 1 conflagrate, you can win the game on the spot, even if you are already tapped out. Just remove the 3 guides from your hand, adding , use one for casting conflagrate for 0, then flashback it with the leftover mana and discard all the cards in your hand, which should be enough to kill the opponent.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
I think there are lots of ways to abuse having your library in your hand. I like straitforward approaches, like using Empyrial Plate to attack with a ridiculously huge creature; but that's just how I would do it.
random question: what card is that crying art from? (the one with the massacre wurm super-imposed)
I love the concept behind the Phantasmassacre deck (Massacre Wurm).  It would even work in multiplayer.  You give one opponent 5 1/1 guys under the premise that they don't attack you with them and you won't attack them with your big unblockable.  So while they are sending the dorks into someone else's face, you can be setting up a big life drain.  Keep giving your "friend" tokens and keep having him attack other people. 

You only promised you wouldn't attack him, not that you wouldn't drain life and desimate his army. 
random question: what card is that crying art from? (the one with the massacre wurm super-imposed)



Rain of Tears.
It would take slightly more than 225,212 Magic cards to cover the floor of an olympic-sized pool. (Each card is 88 mm by 63 mm, an olympic-sized pool is 50 m by 25 m. You get better packing if you lay them so the long way of the card goes across the short way of the pool, so that's the figure I used.)

A Magic card is approximately 250 μm thick and an Olympic-size pool is 2 m deep, so you'd need about 8,000 layers of cards, for a total of 1,801,696,000 cards.

(In other news, I'm a nerd!)

Edit: GACK! I was off by a power of ten the first time because I screwed up the thickness measurement! Fixed that now. It's 'only' one billion, not eighteen billion. 
It would take slightly more than 225,212 Magic cards to cover the floor of an olympic-sized pool. (Each card is 88 mm by 63 mm, an olympic-sized pool is 50 m by 25 m. You get better packing if you lay them so the long way of the card goes across the short way of the pool, so that's the figure I used.)

A Magic card is approximately 25 μm thick and an Olympic-size pool is 2 m deep, so you'd need about 80,000 layers of cards, for a total of 18,016,960,000 cards.

(In other news, I'm a nerd!) 

Ah, but the point is not the filling, but the diving. The cards need to be packed as loosely as possible—perhaps each folded 90° and then oriented randomly? Of course, if you're able to do math for that scenario without empirical tests, then I would be deeply impressed.
Honestly, I would go away from the self-Traumatize and more toward the Dredge based strategies.  Traumatize is nice, but it is a do-nothing card on its own.  If you were to use cards like Golgari Grave-Troll, Moldervine Cloak, and Stinkweed Imp you get two for the price of one.  On one hand you are milling yourself, but on the other you are taking advantage of incremental card advantage by having these threats come back.

Also, the Lord of Extinction is huge, but with it in play, it makes Praetor's Counsel a dead card in your hand.  And vice versa, after Praetor's Counsel, Lord of Extinction is a dead card in your hand.  Golgari Grave-Troll eliminates this problem.  Cast it before your Counsel, and the counters stay.  Plus, it protects itself.

Stinkweed Imp is one of the greatest threat deterrents in the game.  Sure, swing at me, both our stuff dies, but mine comes back.  Incremental card advantage.  They have to waste removal to get through, and then you get to replay it.

Then, after a long game of incremental advantage, you play your single big spell and draw 20 cards.  All the while you continually apply pressure.
It would take slightly more than 225,212 Magic cards to cover the floor of an olympic-sized pool. (Each card is 88 mm by 63 mm, an olympic-sized pool is 50 m by 25 m. You get better packing if you lay them so the long way of the card goes across the short way of the pool, so that's the figure I used.)

A Magic card is approximately 25 μm thick and an Olympic-size pool is 2 m deep, so you'd need about 80,000 layers of cards, for a total of 18,016,960,000 cards.

(In other news, I'm a nerd!) 

Ah, but the point is not the filling, but the diving. The cards need to be packed as loosely as possible—perhaps each folded 90° and then oriented randomly? Of course, if you're able to do math for that scenario without empirical tests, then I would be deeply impressed.


Scrooge McDuck style swimming.
I gotta say of the three deck ideas seen, the Praetor's Counsel/Morality shift one is the one that excites me the most.  Reapeating board wipes to make the opponent lose creatures and life, cool.  Infinite damage a couple different, but all interacting ways in one deck, very nice.  Bouncing your entire library into your 'yard and from there into your hand, HOLY CRAP THE SHENANIGANS!  This is something we don't try that often!

As my favorite of the three I feel compelled to mention some possible changes

-4 Search for Tomorrow
+4 Cultivate

You're trying to thin your deck as much as possible/grab as many lands as you can, so why search for one land when you can hit two.  I realize Search for Tomorrow puts it into play untapped and has suspend for {G}, but I really don't think  that the suspend is advantageous after turn 2.

-3 Explosive Vegetation
+3 Hunting Wilds

Hunting Wilds can hit your Murmuring Bosks and Overgrown Tombs for some serious color fixing capabilities, and if you're really in a pinch you can kick it too.

-3 Putrefy
+3 Maelstrom Pulse

Maelstrom Pulse can hit 'Walkers and pesky enchantments in addition to creatures and artifacts, and regenerate doesn't come up all that often (and frankly Black Sun's Zenith takes care of that quite nicely).  I'm going to replace the last Putrefy further down the list.  Yes I realize Maelstrom Pulse costs 8 times the money, but it's not like this is Building on a Budget.


-3 Diabolic Tutor
+3 Demonic Tutor

This one is just a straight up money issue.  Diabolic can be had for $0.75, Demonic goes for around $9-$12 depending on where you look.


-1 Praetor's Counsel
+1 Demonic Tutor

You don't need 3 Praetor's Counsel, only 2.  As soon as you cast one Counsel you get the other one back from your graveyard into your hand.  As for getting the first one into your hand in the first place, the Demonic Tutor can do that too, but it can also fetch a Morality shift for you if you already have a Praetor's Counsel

Next I have found a pair of free discard outlets to abuse in this deck, both as one offs of course, since you're basically drawing your deck.

-1 Putrefy
-1 Black Sun's Zenith
+1 Skirge Familiar
+1 Zombie Infestation

These discard outlets are absolutely bonkers in this deck.  Skirge makes it really really easy to recast Praetor's Counsel, and in the process of doing that, just discard the rest of your mitt to make an absolutely enormous zombie swarm.  The Black Sun's Zeniths can afford to go down to 3 because this is a combo deck that will be grabbing them anyway.  As for early game protection while you find all your combo pieces, the comibnation of your three remaining spot removals and the 3 Zeniths you still have should be enough to get you through.  You may also notice, that for the Black Sun's Zeniths you do get, Skirge Familiar makes them huge...



Before I move on further in my changes I want to address Neverending Torment.  If Neverending Torment goes off, it WILL kill your opponent in 2-3 turns max.  You will not be able to cast spells during this period.  Please do remember to at least cast Black Sun's Zenith followed by either a Beacon of Creation or a Zombie Infestation before you cast Neverending Torment so you can protect yourself during those turns.


-1 Lord of Extinction
+1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer

Although you do dump your entire library into the graveyard, the real final goal is to get it into your hand.  Sure you're going to cast SOME of the cards in your hand, but I'll lay odds you will not be able to drain your hand fast enough for Lord of Extinction to be better then Multani.  Besides, Multani has shroud, and you can always recast Morality Shift and Praetor's Counsel to stock up again.

-1 Rampant Growth
+1 Brawn

We can afford to lose a single ramp spell that only fetches a single land.  Brawn on the other hand, when it inevitably hits your 'yard will help your Multani, Maro Sorcerer get his damage through to the opponent.  Also, your discard outlets will get Brawn in to the bin if you happen to draw it before you Morality Shift.




Or  if you want to just end the game in a far less cool but far more efficient manner:

-1 Neverending Torment
-1 Brawn
+1 Gemstone Array
+1 Exsanguinate

Gemstone Array lets you go infinite mana with the Skirge Familiar/Praetor's Counsel combo and Exsanguinate lets you do something with all that juicy mana.





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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

This article has been up for nearly 24 hours and not a single person has noted that Turn the Tide doesn't do a thing for the deck much less Transmute?
This article has been up for nearly 24 hours and not a single person has noted that Turn the Tide doesn't do a thing for the deck much less Transmute?


Turn the Tide is meant to ensure that all the token creatures you give your opponent don't kill you before you have a chance to draw and resolve the Massacre Wurm.  It acts like a Holy Day in that it protects you while still keeping your opponent's creatures alive.
It would take slightly more than 225,212 Magic cards to cover the floor of an olympic-sized pool. (Each card is 88 mm by 63 mm, an olympic-sized pool is 50 m by 25 m. You get better packing if you lay them so the long way of the card goes across the short way of the pool, so that's the figure I used.)

A Magic card is approximately 25 μm thick and an Olympic-size pool is 2 m deep, so you'd need about 80,000 layers of cards, for a total of 18,016,960,000 cards.

(In other news, I'm a nerd!) 

Ah, but the point is not the filling, but the diving. The cards need to be packed as loosely as possible—perhaps each folded 90° and then oriented randomly? Of course, if you're able to do math for that scenario without empirical tests, then I would be deeply impressed.



In this case you would be hurtling toward a concrete floor with nothing beneath you but this.
This article has been up for nearly 24 hours and not a single person has noted that Turn the Tide doesn't do a thing for the deck much less Transmute?


Turn the Tide is meant to ensure that all the token creatures you give your opponent don't kill you before you have a chance to draw and resolve the Massacre Wurm.  It acts like a Holy Day in that it protects you while still keeping your opponent's creatures alive.


Which is why it's been fixed in the article and is now Netherborn Phalanx as originally intended?

Yeah.
Scrooge McDuck style swimming.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

In this case you would be hurtling toward a concrete floor with nothing beneath you but this.

That works for me as long as it's a pre-Beijing Olympic pool. Keiyakins was a traditionalist and didn't account for the extra meter of depth introduced in 2008.
Scrooge McDuck style swimming.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

In this case you would be hurtling toward a concrete floor with nothing beneath you but this.

That works for me as long as it's a pre-Beijing Olympic pool. Keiyakins was a traditionalist and didn't account for the extra meter of depth introduced in 2008.



As far as I can tell, the depth is only actually specified as a minimum. 
Scrooge McDuck style swimming.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

In this case you would be hurtling toward a concrete floor with nothing beneath you but this.

That works for me as long as it's a pre-Beijing Olympic pool. Keiyakins was a traditionalist and didn't account for the extra meter of depth introduced in 2008.



As far as I can tell, the depth is only actually specified as a minimum. 



Now picture diving into the molten core of the Earth, through an incomprehensibly vast pile of burning cardboard.
In this case you would be hurtling toward a concrete floor with nothing beneath you but this.

That works for me as long as it's a pre-Beijing Olympic pool. Keiyakins was a traditionalist and didn't account for the extra meter of depth introduced in 2008.

As far as I can tell, the depth is only actually specified as a minimum. 

I'm unfamiliar with the rules, but I believe the extra depth was unprecedented; I know physical simulations indicate that it might have contributed to faster times due to differences in turbulence and standing waves.
About this deck around massacre wurm, alongside forbidden orchard, you can play whiplash trap, which helps you buy some time, and forces your opponent to replay his creatures, for extra damage with blood seeker. 

Also, Tolaria West  helps you find the orchard .