02/16/2011 BoaB: "Good Lux"

95 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
You had me at Proliferate.
This looks like a fun deck, I was scheming up something similar for when MBS hits MTGO.  I had a good laugh when I got to the end of the article and you lost to the deck you were trying to thwart.
Seems like a fun deck, regardless of whether or not it's actually competitive.  (The Caw-Go match seems fine but not spectacular, and Kuldotha Red actually seems pretty miserable.  You probably lose 70+ percent of the time if you don't have Pyroclasm by turn 3.)

Also, minor nitpick with the first match: I'm pretty certain that Mountain and Lightning Bolt do a fine job of taking down Precursor Golem and friends, even if you do have a Throne of Geth in play.  Sacrificing the targeted golem shouldn't matter, since by then Precursor Golem's ability has already triggered and will kill the rest of them as well.  It's a minor thing, since you're obviously winning that game regardless of what your opponent does, but I thought I'd point it out.
I desperately want this deck to actually be competitive.
I have a minor problem with the Precursor Golem; it's a bit of a hazard with spot and mass removal alike, so I would suggest something like Darksteel Juggernaut, which could end up really huge in a deck like this, instead. I don't really anticipate Go for the Throat being relevant removal or that it would change the meta for Standard at all; it looks to me that you're much more likely to run into either a Doom Blade or a Lightning Bolt because everybody's got 'em.

That said, this deck looks really wonderful. Mana that just keeps growing and lux cannons that start to pick off permanents once per turn are a sure sign that we're back on Mirrodin at last. I'm really inclined to build a version of this myself, as I have priced this deck at about $23 -- a real budget deck!
"Catch!"
I have a minor problem with the Precursor Golem; it's a bit of a hazard with spot and mass removal alike



This is why I build my metalcraft decks in green and keep a few copies of Withstand Death handy.
I have a minor problem with the Precursor Golem; it's a bit of a hazard with spot and mass removal alike, so I would suggest something like Darksteel Juggernaut, which could end up really huge in a deck like this, instead. I don't really anticipate Go for the Throat being relevant removal or that it would change the meta for Standard at all; it looks to me that you're much more likely to run into either a Doom Blade or a Lightning Bolt because everybody's got 'em.

That said, this deck looks really wonderful. Mana that just keeps growing and lux cannons that start to pick off permanents once per turn are a sure sign that we're back on Mirrodin at last. I'm really inclined to build a version of this myself, as I have priced this deck at about $23 -- a real budget deck!

You are obviously living under a rock and have nOt discovered that go for the throat is a 2.50$ uncommon and will be played instead of doom blade in every format
Okay... now where's the budget article?
Also, minor nitpick with the first match: I'm pretty certain that Mountain and Lightning Bolt do a fine job of taking down Precursor Golem and friends, even if you do have a Throne of Geth in play.  Sacrificing the targeted golem shouldn't matter, since by then Precursor Golem's ability has already triggered and will kill the rest of them as well.  It's a minor thing, since you're obviously winning that game regardless of what your opponent does, but I thought I'd point it out.



Yeah, I noticed that too. Not going to do you any good when your opponent has the capability of destroying multiple permanents every turn, but it would have at least stalled the game while he fished for another finisher.
Rules Nut Advisor
I'm interested in this dek but I do have a thought:

Although I've got budget on my mind, I did have the good fortune of having a couple copies of Wurmcoil Engine that I luckily opened from packs. Would they upgrade (or just substitute) for the precursor golems well enough?

Other than that, this looks lik great fun, not sure how it will stack up against my local metagame but I'd love to take this deck for a spin. (Which is odd cause I usually think of myself as more of an aggro player)
This deck made me giggle. That's a good place to be. Now if only I had the parts...
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Oddly enough, I was kinda anticipating this kind of deck, but I'd guessed Jacob would try adding Kuldotha Forgemaster to the mix, as well as Myr Sire to get it going.  Actually, scratch that: I thought it'd be a Blue-white version of this deck.  Odd coincidence and a bad idea on my part, I guess. 

To North: the Golems do nine damage a turn, make three bodies, but don't take removal very well.  The Engines only do six, but can net six life a turn, take out larger creatures than themselves and don't mind removal as much.  So yeah, there's a good swap-out potential. 

There's one thing I missed, though, in terms of ideas: if you're using seven turn two accelerators, wouldn't a Myr be a good idea? Specifically Plague Myr, which accelerates as well as offering a very funny poison option, and getting the first counter on an otherwise killer Thrun (Proliferate doesn't target, before anyone starts).  Probably not competitive enough in the current build, but perhaps worth a try in casual. 

Good-looking deck, cards are relatively easy to find, and it has enough tutors to warrant some serious tweaking without losing its functionality.  Chimeric Mass, anyone?
The deck really needs Ratchet Bomb. Not a budget card really, but it's one of the most important cards in any control deck. 

Oh yeah, and Jace. Any blue deck without Jace is a bad deck. It's just that good of a card, sorry.  
 Any blue deck without Jace is a bad deck. It's just that good of a card, sorry.  




any deck with Jace cannot be considered "budget."

also, i agree that Precursor Golem seems to be too big of a liability.  Throne of Geth isn't going to save it from it's own trigger.  although it might mean dropping a little more money into the deck, i would suggest cutting it for a more reliable win-con like Wurmcoil Engine or Blightsteel (with you proliferating counters on Chalice, the 12 mana shouldn't be a problem).  
although it dies to Go For the Throat, the blue Titan seems like it would have great synergy with your Lux Cannons and Tumble Magnets.
one more suggestion (although, i'm sure they have probably already gone up a lot in price):  a couple copies of Inkmoth Nexus might be a nice alternate win condition.  you've really only got to get in there once with one and then proliferate your way to victory.
I know. It's just that Jace is so good it just single-handedly destroys all creative decks I ever make. Just wanted to complain really... 
I know. It's just that Jace is so good it just single-handedly destroys all creative decks I ever make. Just wanted to complain really... 



yeah, Jace is essentially this generation of Magic's Ravager Affinity.  to be competitive, you must either play Jace or be able to answer your opponent playing Jace.  
it's largely due to pricey, format-dominating cards like Jace that i haven't been able to afford to play Magic competitively anymore in quite a while, but i do still enjoy keeping up with new sets, trends, and metagames.  and even though i don't even play anymore, it's still annoying to see Jace in every deck running blue mana.  : /
One Jace 2.0 costs more than this entire deck lol!

Love the Luxinator deck - especially the proliferate part.  Adding the Plague Myr was suggested and gets at where I would LOVE to see a deck go - marry infect with proliferate.  They are a match made in heaven.  I challenge JVL to put these two together into a lovely budget-y couple Cool 

One idea is to use guys like Ichor Rats or spells like Virulent Wound to throw the first poison counter or two on your opponent and then get some wicked proliferate engine to take over from there.  This does not really need the studly infect critters like Skittles, Phyrexian Crusader, or the Vatmother to do it's dirty work.  You could instead focus on the little 2-drops to gum up the board while you get proliferating. 
Okay... now where's the budget article?



Are you kidding?  Please say you're kidding.  Rares don't mean non-budget when each rare is a bulk rare, for goodness' sake.  You could assemble this deck by brown-bagging your lunch for a week instead of eating at the local deli.
Wasn't this deck built specifically to defeat a Sword weilding Bird?  I love the deck, and I think it is actually a very solid budget alternative to all the Jaces' and Jura's.   But, it obviously can't compete at the highest level.  It would need some tweaking.  I anticipate Caw-Go to be very successful in the coming days.

 
Why not use some titan forges instead of the battle sphere and the golems? They would seem to work well with this deck.
As far as keeping the deck budget-friendly, I could only suggest Steel Hellkite over the golem. (I did not check, but I suspect it is relatively cheap) It can be pumped to match the golems damage, is evasive, and can be tutored for with the treasure mage.

I built a deck similar to this when scars first came out because I am in love with proliferate. For those not on a budget, try replacing red with white and use Venser, Sun Titan, and Ratchet Bomb. The fun that ensues is indescribable.

Although I've got budget on my mind, I did have the good fortune of having a couple copies of Wurmcoil Engine that I luckily opened from packs. Would they upgrade (or just substitute) for the precursor golems well enough?



I'd say Wurmcoil is almost a straight upgrade because it does everything you want: provides a huge beater, kills almost any threat short of a Blightsteel Colossus, gives you a massive resilience boost to aggro/burn, is resistant to most popular forms of removal (a huge plus given Precursor Golem's weakness), and most importantly is fetchable by Treasure Mage.

If you added some fancy lands you could probably make Tezzeret 2.0 work well in this deck too.  He digs for cards and provides two very relevant finishers here.  The Sphere of the Suns is already there for mana fixing.

Chimeric Mass is another interesting option; it can grow arbitrarily large, especially when powered by artifact mana, and is another Trinket Mage target.  It also dodges even more removal than Wurmcoil.

I'm very happy that Jacob posted games against actually good decks.  It's funny and ironic how he lost the Caw-Go matchup to a bird with a sword, but I guess bringing Planeswalkers into the mix does that.  (Subliminal Jace complaint at work in this article?)  In any event it's way better to read a janky fun deck winning or losing to the best decks in the format rather than curb-stomping some random junk builds in MTGO casual rooms.
A great article and an interesting deck.  I think in order to be truly competitive it needs to be able to deal with quick weenie decks and if we stay in red then Slagstorm would seem to be a fine addition.  I also love playing Twisted Image as it messes with combat math and also becomes Ancestral Recall when targetting a Precursor Golem.
Why not use some titan forges instead of the battle sphere and the golems? They would seem to work well with this deck.



It's an alright budget option but it's too similar to Lux cannon, but requires more support and investment, which means it's far worse since if you don't have the framework for it in hand/on the field it's really garbage.  The Lux Cannon can at least shoot their most important permanent in three turns at utmost worst, stalling down the game until you can get your engine running.  The forge requires 12 mana to get a 9/9 all on its own; it's a bit too inefficient.  The other strength of the Battlesphere is that it's fetchable, which does mountains for its placement in the deck.
So, I'm putting this deck together, mostly for some semi-competitive casual play. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the following:

First, I splashed black, instead of red, using Go for the Throat instead of Pyroclasm. That's just because there's almost no aggressive red in my metagame and Go for the Throat is amazing.

I also swapped out the Precursors for Wurmcoils, 'cause I had some extras laying around and he seems all-around better.

I'm tempted to run at least one copy of Chimeric Mass, 'cause he can get huge quickly with all the proliferate effects and he evades non-instant speed removal like Day of Judgment, Journey to Nowhere etc.

I also really wanted to run a twentieth land, if only to help the deck's stability. But I'm not sure what's worth cutting for it.

So, yeah.

Thoughts?
Chimeric Mass could straight-up define this deck with the amount of proliferation going on. From worldwake onwards, decks ran manlands. This is somewhat like that, but it gets better and better. Also I like the Wurmcoil Engine idea because it's cheaper than Primeval Titan and Grave Titan while being fetchable by the Treasure Mage. Two wonderful cards from Scars of Mirrodin.
"Catch!"
"I wanted to build a deck that had game against one of the most important cards in Standard, Stoneforge Mystic."

try again :/ 
Seems like even keeping in this mid-line budget you could really improve the deck.

Chimeric Mass for sure. Does the Treasure/Trinkets really help? Could you just eliminate blue and go Boros for board sweeping? Pyroclasms and Day of Judgements?

I really think there's a place for Throne Proliferate decks. I think that MSB gave us enough useful artifacts (sphere and ichor) to make drawing in to an Artifact Win con something worth it.

Question is, I would think some people are going to pack a little artifact hate in their sideboard (especially if they seem threatened by some sort of wurmcoil or tezz deck).


This also seems like a really solid base to a Tezz Deck, ok so he's not budget. But I'd kill the Precursors, go with a black splash instead of red. And start getting the 5/5 Thrones going!


Love the idea though. BoaB comes through with solid deck inspiration again!
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
Also, suprisingly, I like Platinum Imperion in playtesting.

Fetched with a Treasure Mage he wins games this deck has no business winning.

Or rather, prevents you from ever losing games that you would otherwise lose.

He also has lol factor. As in, you play him and then your opponent says: "LOL, wait, what?!"
Dear Jacob,

I just want to say, I love the deck and I love that you are being quite original again. This is what BOAB should be like.

That being said, I had two complaints:

1) You shoudnl't try to pass off Tumble Magnet as innovative anti-Stoneforge tech. It's a great card in its own right, and should really be played in any artifact control deck regardless of meta.

2) I'd rather hear general overviews of multiple games rather than exact blow-by-blow accounts of 2 or 3. You really overuse the phrase "passed the turn", and after a while it reminds me of reading congressionsal proceedings - more of an unbiased list of events rather than a paragraph about a game.

Keep making fun, powerful decks! 
I think that this deck is pretty sweet in casual. To make it competitive, you would need some Steady Progress, and better blockers, like Ichorclaw Myr(That card would add the Poison to the game, and put tonnes of pressure on the opponent.).
[/sblock] [sblock=signature] I am Red/Black
I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's
I'm really interested in this deck, so I've been following allowing on this thread.

So I'm wondering: What about a sideboard for this deck? I haven't got a clue. The deck seems really focused, so taking out cards for sideboard seems tough. Thoughts?

(one more copy of pyroclasm is all I can really think of...)

Oh, and I don't know about Steady Progress but a poison/proliferate strategy out of the sideboard seems intriguing...
@Great_North

Someone suggested Slagstorm earlier, and I think that's a start. I'd suggest testing the deck out a bunch and figuring out what you're losing to, so you know what weaknesses you need to try and shore up.
Steady progress is bad. Just sayin'.

The deck doesn't need any more profileration, and if it did, there are better options. Namely, more Contagion Clasps. 
I'd rather hear general overviews of multiple games rather than exact blow-by-blow accounts of 2 or 3.

I could nitpick the article, but it's a waste of time.

Elixer sucks, Voltaic Key is not really better or worse game by game so tutoring for it doesn't really make sense, and you play 4 Tumble Magnets so why the hell would you play Brittle Effigy (not even that great anyways). Because of this, Trinket Mage really has no place in the deck. Also, if the deck is inconsistent you must change it to fix that, and this could be part of the problem (aside from the mediocre interaction between these cards)
You need a fourth Pyroclasm/Slagstorm as it will either be a dead draw or really good early game and you want it out turn 2 or 3. You can do 2 pyros and 2 slag's also, that's what Chapin did and it's not a bad idea.
You have no consistent one-drops, you complain about consistency, and you play blue, so the obvious choice is 4 Preordain. Alternatively you could play multiple Voltaic Keys (since it's not bad in this deck) but Preordain should help make this even more consistent and gives a chance to get rid of Pyroclasms or other dead draws and get those extra lands you need.
Precursor Golem has amazing interaction with Throne of Geth, as sacrificing the non-token will stop each golem from being targetted. It's also just a really good card and has little to no value. Play 4.
A singleton Wurmcoil Engine would make the deck a lot better although it is expensive.
The tutoring aspect of this deck is what makes it so good. I'd up the mages to 4 and add (in addition to wurmcoil) Platinum Emporium, Mindslaver (makes the control matchup a lot better), and maybe Steel Hellkite/Second Wurmcoil/Second Battlesphere
Artifacts you normally would only play 3 of (Throne of Geth, Tumble Magnet) can be played as 4 of's due to the low land count, Preordain, and Sembalance Anvil.
You cannot expect to be able to run only 19 lands, I'd run 20 minimum preferably 21.
I like the deck. In fact, I like that you made this deck right after I did kinda the same. My deck is G/ub with Tezzeret and Spike Feeder. Yes, that's not Standard legal, but the idea is the same. You can find my deck on my blog: stidjensmagic.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/t...
Photobucket
"I wanted to build a deck that had game against one of the most important cards in Standard, Stoneforge Mystic."

try again :/ 



I hope to god by that you mean that he failed to do so, and not denying that Stoneforge Mystic is easily in the top 5 most format defining cards in standard right now.
I'd rather hear general overviews of multiple games rather than exact blow-by-blow accounts of 2 or 3.

I could nitpick the article, but it's a waste of time.

Elixer sucks, Voltaic Key is not really better or worse game by game so tutoring for it doesn't really make sense, and you play 4 Tumble Magnets so why the hell would you play Brittle Effigy (not even that great anyways). Because of this, Trinket Mage really has no place in the deck. Also, if the deck is inconsistent you must change it to fix that, and this could be part of the problem (aside from the mediocre interaction between these cards)
You need a fourth Pyroclasm/Slagstorm as it will either be a dead draw or really good early game and you want it out turn 2 or 3. You can do 2 pyros and 2 slag's also, that's what Chapin did and it's not a bad idea.
You have no consistent one-drops, you complain about consistency, and you play blue, so the obvious choice is 4 Preordain. Alternatively you could play multiple Voltaic Keys (since it's not bad in this deck) but Preordain should help make this even more consistent and gives a chance to get rid of Pyroclasms or other dead draws and get those extra lands you need.
Precursor Golem has amazing interaction with Throne of Geth, as sacrificing the non-token will stop each golem from being targetted. It's also just a really good card and has little to no value. Play 4.
A singleton Wurmcoil Engine would make the deck a lot better although it is expensive.
The tutoring aspect of this deck is what makes it so good. I'd up the mages to 4 and add (in addition to wurmcoil) Platinum Emporium, Mindslaver (makes the control matchup a lot better), and maybe Steel Hellkite/Second Wurmcoil/Second Battlesphere
Artifacts you normally would only play 3 of (Throne of Geth, Tumble Magnet) can be played as 4 of's due to the low land count, Preordain, and Sembalance Anvil.
You cannot expect to be able to run only 19 lands, I'd run 20 minimum preferably 21.



What else would you suggest cutting? Because you added ~13 cards and only saw you mention about 3 you wanted removed.
 
Steady progress is bad. Just sayin'.

The deck doesn't need any more profileration, and if it did, there are better options. Namely, more Contagion Clasps. 



More Contagion Clasp? I would personally use Steady Progress because it allows me to draw a card as well. And it is pretty darn cheap. If you pulled an infinite mana loop (2 Myr Galvanizer + 2 or more of any mana producing Myr = Infinite mana), then you could pull a Blue Sun's Zenith out, draw all that you need, and then play till your opponent gets rage-quity or you get bored wooping hide (Like a boss).
[/sblock] [sblock=signature] I am Red/Black
I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's
Steady progress is bad. Just sayin'.

The deck doesn't need any more profileration, and if it did, there are better options. Namely, more Contagion Clasps. 



More Contagion Clasp? I would personally use Steady Progress because it allows me to draw a card as well. And it is pretty darn cheap. If you pulled an infinite mana loop (2 Myr Galvanizer + 2 or more of any mana producing Myr = Infinite mana), then you could pull a Blue Sun's Zenith out, draw all that you need, and then play till your opponent gets rage-quity or you get bored wooping hide (Like a boss).



These strategies are horribly slow compared to what you want and need to play. Contagion Clasp adds multiple proliferation and also kills a critter for you.

As said multiple times, sacrificing a Precursor Golem does not actually stop the copies.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Sign In to post comments