Heroes of the Feywild SPECULATION

370 posts / 0 new
Last post
So we have a little info already about Heroes of the Feywild. The most interesting is the first Dual-Role class. It was mentioned in the latest D&D Podcast. What do you all think?
It's fairly likely the Dual role class will morph from a defensive role (defender/leader) to striker, presumably after his encounter powers are spent or something.
Yeah exactly, the fact that they mentioned that the role change would hasten up the end of an encounter has Striker written all over it. Why not controller to start, though? As the encounter progresses, the attacks go from spread out and low damage (like a Wizard) to concentrated heavy fire (like a Sorcerer).

The better question is what mechanics are going to make the end half of the encounter more "risky", as mentioned in the podcast.
DMG p. 42: Actions the Rules Don't Cover http://dmg42.blogspot.com
Losing a defender/leader is more risky than losing a Controller :P
I just can't see losing a defender towards the end of an ecounter as being overly risky. Losing a leader would be far more risky in my opinion.
I wonder if it will have the essentials version of the champion of corellon in it.....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I'm curious about race options.
race options ...me too
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Will we get new races (I'm predicting yes), and what would they be? We already have elves in three different flavors, gnomes, and wilden.
The most interesting is the first Dual-Role class. It was mentioned in the latest D&D Podcast. What do you all think?



I'm going to have to agree with Mike Mearls on the concept of dual role classes.

 I know there was some talk of trying to make hybrid character classes that span two roles, but in playtests and looking at it, it was just a switch that let you go “OK, now you’re a controller”, flip a switch, and now you’re a striker.



 At some level you’re just going to be worse than someone else filling those two roles. You don’t want to be a controller that’s sometimes a crappy striker.



We don’t really need to make multi-role characters



:P
I'd be willing to bet the multi role "class" is a Werewolf or something similar. I'm also willing to bet that gnomes get "essentialized".
Was anything else mentioned in the podcast?

Also was it a completely new class or just a new build?
I'd be willing to bet the multi role "class" is a Werewolf or something similar. I'm also willing to bet that gnomes get "essentialized".




The werewolf would be interesting, especially with the Vampire being in the Shadowfell book, this seems plausible.
That would totally rock my world...
there was way back when a race of elves that could be considered good aligned natural were wolves. (2nd edtion) I think called them the lupin or th luin something like that (2e books mostly in atic under christmas stuff) and they were more or less casters that could shift.

Ueing that race and makeing it into a class (just saying it is tought and rituels not inborn does that) you could have a controler that mixed wizard and druid (non wild shape theme) basics that could, flip the switch and go striker were baddie...


I imagin like druid you get  1 extra at will, and tleast 1 most be useable in beast form, and atleast 1 not. beast form powers are like barbrian powers, non beast powers are more like debuf and AOE.

then flip the switch (rage out) and gain extra damage and claw like attacks.



on the other hand imagin the defender who marks and at the half way point was driven into a bezerker frenzy thats mark shifts into an extra damage feature (ala curse or quarry)

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

It isn't limited to just the Feywild's inhabitants. There is apparently stuff in there about dealing with fey in the natural world as well. There was some mention of it being very fairy tale inspired, but in a good way. Ranadiel, were those quotes made before Essentials? Because Essentials was a game changer (literally). What can be done with the new freedom of design Essentials gives is much different than could be done before. I loved Pre-Essentials design, but it was limited by it's uniformity.
The impression I get is that, if Heroes of Shadow is for people who want D&D to be more like Vampire: The Requiem, then Heroes of the Feywild is for people who want it to be more like Changeling: The Lost... ;)

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

The impression I get is that, if Heroes of Shadow is for people who want D&D to be more like Vampire: The Requiem, then Heroes of the Feywild is for people who want it to be more like Changeling: The Lost... ;)


Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. It expands the in-game universe, and that's cool (like bowties  ).
I really hope Duskweaver is right.  Because that leaves the possibility of further expansion via actual Shadow classes.

Also, I wish the thread title was "Heroes of the FeyWILD SPECULATION". :TEACH:
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Ranadiel, were those quotes made before Essentials? Because Essentials was a game changer (literally). What can be done with the new freedom of design Essentials gives is much different than could be done before. I loved Pre-Essentials design, but it was limited by it's uniformity.



They were pre-PHB2 and they were referring to the attempt to make the Druid into a hybrid role class. It simply didn't work. It wasn't that 4ed was unable to handle dual source roles and that essentials will some how magically make it work. It was that the concept didn't work right and it still doesn't work right. I'm sure if you are fine with sacrificing either fun or balance to make the class it is doable, but I wouldn't hold my breath otherwise.

And yes, I know essentials was a game changer. That is why I have effectively quit D&D....again. Essentials killed all the enthusiasm that I used to have(and I had a lot). I'm honestly not even really sure why I bother to come here still other than possibly the fact that watching stuff crash and burn is fun.

The only freedom given by Essentials is the freedom for developers to be lazy in designing classes.....I could go on but I'm already horribly off topic. x_x
It is indeed wild speculation in these early days. That's why I allcapped speculation, however it's no worse than the Heroes of Shadow thread was. As for the Dual-role class, it was stated as being very different from hybrid classes. I'm inferring from the podcast that once you change roles in an encounter you cannot return to the previous role until a new encounter. I see that as a feasible solution to Ranadiel's objections, however as they hate what has been added to 4e thanks to Essentials I doubt they will agree with me.
I'm inferring from the podcast that once you change roles in an encounter you cannot return to the previous role until a new encounter. I see that as a feasible solution to Ranadiel's objections, however as they hate what has been added to 4e thanks to Essentials I doubt they will agree with me.



I don't really see how that handles the issue that came up with the Druid. Either the class will be fully effective at both roles  and therefore will break balance or the class will be les than fully effective at both roles and will therefore feel as though it is subpar. Or it could be fully effective at one role and less effective at the other, but then there is no real point to the second role. Having the switch be permenant for an encounter hardly handles the inherit problem with the concept.
I'm inferring from the podcast that once you change roles in an encounter you cannot return to the previous role until a new encounter. I see that as a feasible solution to Ranadiel's objections, however as they hate what has been added to 4e thanks to Essentials I doubt they will agree with me.



I don't really see how that handles the issue that came up with the Druid. Either the class will be fully effective at both roles  and therefore will break balance or the class will be les than fully effective at both roles and will therefore feel as though it is subpar. Or it could be fully effective at one role and less effective at the other, but then there is no real point to the second role. Having the switch be permenant for an encounter hardly handles the inherit problem with the concept.



Basically, as set out in the Hybrid rules (PHB3), the only thing a split roles is good at is covering that ever elusive 5th character sweet spot.  If only there was a role that was not covered by Striker, Leader, Controller and Defender.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Well the switch was noted as being risky. From personal experience I've noticed that defenders and leaders function mostly from class abilities, whereas controllers and strikers function mostly through powers. Perhaps there will be something of a Rune state mechanic, switching will affect your powers in some way. That seems more than a fair balance.
Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing.


I didn't imply that it was. In my D&D, the Feywild already takes a lot of inspiration from Changeling. Right down to the fey 'races' being originally humans who spent too long in the 'Faerie Realms' (and the Archfey simply being those who've been there the longest, so that they've actually become part of the plane).

that's cool (like bowties  ).


Yes.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing.


I didn't imply that it was. In my D&D, the Feywild already takes a lot of inspiration from Changeling. Right down to the fey 'races' being originally humans who spent too long in the 'Faerie Realms' (and the Archfey simply being those who've been there the longest, so that they've actually become part of the plane).

that's cool (like bowties  ).


Yes.


Nor did I imply that you implied that it was a bad thing. Rather I was reassuring those that may infer that it was a bad thing from your statement. Indeed I feel it to be very good.
Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing.


I didn't imply that it was. In my D&D, the Feywild already takes a lot of inspiration from Changeling. Right down to the fey 'races' being originally humans who spent too long in the 'Faerie Realms' (and the Archfey simply being those who've been there the longest, so that they've actually become part of the plane).

that's cool (like bowties  ).


Yes.


Nor did I imply that you implied that it was a bad thing. Rather I was reassuring those that may infer that it was a bad thing from your statement. Indeed I feel it to be very good.



Indeed, this is only a bad thing if the players in question dislike the work of White Wolf.

I happen to be one such person, but my point still stands.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Kalnaur, I believe Duskweaver was making an analogy, not specifically stating that it would be a carbon copy of those White Wolf products. I can understand your dislike of their products, and your desire for further support of the elements that you like. Personally I don't much like White Wolf either, but adding to the game is always something I enjoy.
Well the switch was noted as being risky. From personal experience I've noticed that defenders and leaders function mostly from class abilities, whereas controllers and strikers function mostly through powers. Perhaps there will be something of a Rune state mechanic, switching will affect your powers in some way. That seems more than a fair balance.



If the dual-role class is indeed a Lycanthrope, I wouldn't be surprised if it started out as a defender or controller that would (willingly or unwillingly) transform into a more deadly striker as the encounter progressed. The implied risk would, IMHO, be slowly losing control of your character, maybe attacking the nearest creature when struck etc.

I guess only time will tell. :p
So, dual-scored Shifter and Gnome; plus a new race, is my racial predictions.

Then we'd have:

• Werewolf Class
• New domains for Warpriests (Moon? Arcana?)
• New Swordmage kit or support for the Bladesinger (depends on how Bladesinger turns out in Neverwinter)
• Possibly essentialised Bard, or at least Bard support?
• Warlock Pacts with various members of the Court of the Stars: Winter Court and the White Lady are already there in Hexblade, and Winter Court is there for the original Warlock; we'd probably get some more support for different types of Fey Pacts.
• More Illusion and Enchantment spells for Mages/Wizards?

That fills up the book quite nicely. 


Also, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a box set similar to Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond on the Feywild not too long after.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

So, dual-scored Shifter and Gnome; plus a new race, is my racial predictions.

Then we'd have:

• Werewolf Class
• New domains for Warpriests (Moon? Arcana?)
• New Swordmage kit or support for the Bladesinger (depends on how Bladesinger turns out in Neverwinter)
• Possibly essentialised Bard, or at least Bard support?
• Warlock Pacts with various members of the Court of the Stars: Winter Court and the White Lady are already there in Hexblade, and Winter Court is there for the original Warlock; we'd probably get some more support for different types of Fey Pacts.
• More Illusion and Enchantment spells for Mages/Wizards?

That fills up the book quite nicely. 


Also, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a box set similar to Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond on the Feywild not too long after.



 Ok.. that would be just awesome. Granted this is just speculation right now, but what would think would go into a product like that?

return of high elves perchance? 

half dragons maybe?

cyclopses? (im not sure what the plural form of cyclops is)

most likley new race options for wildens, and all the fey races 

duel role class? could be intristing, however its diffrent so chances are you will see alot of people act like this is the worst thing that WOtC could of possibly ever done and darn them to heck for ruining ALL OF 4E. lets just hope it dosent take all forums off topic like the essentials debate did
return of high elves perchance? 



Considering eladrin effectively are high elves, and are generally the masters of the feywild. High elves are already covered.

If they aren't, WoTC also decided to give Elves Intelligence as their new optional stat.
I'm kinda hoping in '12 they may have a super adventure w/ a new artifact tie in, like Gardmoor Abby had the Deck of Many Things.  Though I don't really know how they could do a Feywild  boxed set that included Baba Yuga's HutTongue out
I'm kinda hoping in '12 they may have a super adventure w/ a new artifact tie in, like Gardmoor Abby had the Deck of Many Things.  Though I don't really know how they could do a Feywild  boxed set that included Baba Yuga's Hut



I would be really happy to get stats for Baba Yaga or any more of the Archfey.  The Feywild is my favorite plane.  I am stoked for this book coming out.

I could easily see Werewolf/Lycanthorpe as the new dual role class.  From what I've ready, Lycanthorpes aren't inheirently evil, and even some of what was mentioned in the Brokenstone Vale section of MotP makes me think that there could be some non-evil ones.

I could see Gnomes and Shifters getting the updated Racial package too...Gnomes especially.
Fear Of The Dark, Fear Of The Dark, I Have A Constant Fear That Something's Always Near; Fear Of The Dark, Fear Of The Dark, I Have A Phobia That Someone's Always There- Iron Maiden Fear of the Dark shall be feared no longer! Let him be praised instead! (Many, many thanks for all your hard work!) - darkwarlock I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
Check out my DnD blog! www.artificersintuition.blogspot.com
return of high elves perchance? 

half dragons maybe?

cyclopses? (im not sure what the plural form of cyclops is)

most likley new race options for wildens, and all the fey races 

duel role class? could be intristing, however its diffrent so chances are you will see alot of people act like this is the worst thing that WOtC could of possibly ever done and darn them to heck for ruining ALL OF 4E. lets just hope it dosent take all forums off topic like the essentials debate did


Half dragon seems unlikely, it's just doesn't really fit with the fey theme.
Kalnaur, I believe Duskweaver was making an analogy, not specifically stating that it would be a carbon copy of those White Wolf products. I can understand your dislike of their products, and your desire for further support of the elements that you like. Personally I don't much like White Wolf either, but adding to the game is always something I enjoy.



Adding to the game, provided that the options are interesting or fun.  And yeah, I doubt D&D will become a White Wolf product anytime soon.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Werewolf wouldn't be terrible, heck now I could be a Shifter Werewolf. It can't be worse then being a Dhampyr Vampire Vampire can it?
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.



It'd be a Transformer!
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.



It'd be a Transformer![/quote]







fixed

a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....