Renown points...

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Can you earn renown points for Bringing your own character AND Creating one with the Character Builder? There seems to be some doubt about that in my group.
RS: 60/60 CS: 60/60 RotS: 60/60 U:60/60 CotF: 60/60 BH: 60/60 A&E: 51/60 TFU: 53/60 LotF: 37/60 KotOR: 37/60 CW: 26/40 IE: 31/40 JA: 17/40 G@W: 7/40 DT: 7/40 Good trades with: Lily_Wan, creme_brule, suki_jedi_apprentice, Ephant_Mon
Yes.  The PC in question would receive 10 Renown Points.  The 'Create Your Own Character' Renown Points are to inspire Players to make their own characters as opposed to using the Pre-Gens.  Using the Character Builder option gains an additional 5 Renown Points, I personally think Wizards should have removed this option for this season as it gives 'Subscribers' a leg over all the other players.
Advanced Level TO
That's what I figured. Can you point me to an "official" source for this, so I can make my case?
RS: 60/60 CS: 60/60 RotS: 60/60 U:60/60 CotF: 60/60 BH: 60/60 A&E: 51/60 TFU: 53/60 LotF: 37/60 KotOR: 37/60 CW: 26/40 IE: 31/40 JA: 17/40 G@W: 7/40 DT: 7/40 Good trades with: Lily_Wan, creme_brule, suki_jedi_apprentice, Ephant_Mon
Well the poster itself shows it as 2 seperate Rewards.  It would indicate an 'or' condition otherwise.  These have been 2 seperate Rewards for the past 3 Seasons As Well (Can't remember if it was in Season 1, but for sure in 2 and 3)
Advanced Level TO
Using the Character Builder option gains an additional 5 Renown Points, I personally think Wizards should have removed this option for this season as it gives 'Subscribers' a leg over all the other players.


But that's the whole point. Wizards wants to sell subscriptions to DDI, so it's an enticement for people to subscribe.  And as a subscriber, I think that's reasonable.

- Rico
One of my players brought up an excellent point last night. The renown point opportunities seem skewed to favor specific classes. For example not many characters will be able to deal 15 damage to a target or hit three targets at once and put those classes that cannot at a disadvantage. It would be nice if there were other ways to earn renown to offset this. Perhaps something like increase three allies defences (fort, will, reflex or ac) in one round, or heal a target for 15 points.
One of my players brought up an excellent point last night. The renown point opportunities seem skewed to favor specific classes. For example not many characters will be able to deal 15 damage to a target or hit three targets at once and put those classes that cannot at a disadvantage. It would be nice if there were other ways to earn renown to offset this. Perhaps something like increase three allies defences (fort, will, reflex or ac) in one round, or heal a target for 15 points.



There are renown point opportunities that favor each role/class.

























Leader:       Revive a dying adventurer ally1/chapter2
Striker:       Hit for 15+ damage against 1 enemy1/chapter2
Controller:  Kill 3 minions in 1 attack1/chapter2
Defender:   Take 50 enemy damage in 1 session1/chapter2


All of these are equal (2 points).

The big change this season that benefits everyone is that Wizards lowered the total points from 100 to 60. 100 was almost impossible to attain since you just about needed to be able to earn all of the various options (which is impossible). 60 is definitely doable. I already have 17 after the first night.
- Rico
Even though the total number of points required to earn the highest tier reward has been knocked down a considerable amount from last season, it's still roughly the same challenge as before. Without milestone rewards for MotPB, there's less automatic renown rewarded. Sure you can bring new players to compensate for this, but I finding highly likely that you're going to find fewer completely new Encounters players than the total number of milestones you'll reach. Furthermore, non-DDI subscribers are at a greater disadvanatge this season since there are fewer points to earn, thus increasing the value of the 5 points you get for using the character builder. This brings them to a total of 49 essentially given points as opposed to 54 for a subscriber. Thus, those with that advantage only need to complete a special accomplishment once per chapter, while the have nots need twice as many tasks completed in the same time period. Sure, Wizards is entitled to promote their digital subscription all they want, and even two "uncommon" rewards per chapter should be trivially easy as well, it's just that "lowering" the total by 40(!) is not nearly as great a reduction as it seems on the surface.

However, I am a bit glad that quests have been detatched from the renown point system.
Even though the total number of points required to earn the highest tier reward has been knocked down a considerable amount from last season, it's still roughly the same challenge as before. Without milestone rewards for MotPB, there's less automatic renown rewarded. Sure you can bring new players to compensate for this, but I finding highly likely that you're going to find fewer completely new Encounters players than the total number of milestones you'll reach. Furthermore, non-DDI subscribers are at a greater disadvanatge this season since there are fewer points to earn, thus increasing the value of the 5 points you get for using the character builder. This brings them to a total of 49 essentially given points as opposed to 54 for a subscriber. Thus, those with that advantage only need to complete a special accomplishment once per chapter, while the have nots need twice as many tasks completed in the same time period. Sure, Wizards is entitled to promote their digital subscription all they want, and even two "uncommon" rewards per chapter should be trivially easy as well, it's just that "lowering" the total by 40(!) is not nearly as great a reduction as it seems on the surface.

However, I am a bit glad that quests have been detatched from the renown point system.


But not only are the renown points for the special achievements per roll/class higher in Season 4 than they were in Season 3,  in Season 3 you were only able to earn them once per season. Whereas in Season 4 you can earn them once per chapter (I'm guessing we have three chapters this time, but since I'm not DMing, I don't know).

Season 4:

RENOWN POINT AWARDS




























































AccomplishmentFrequencyRP
Complete an encounterSession3
Bring a new playerSession2
Moment of greatness1/chapter2
Revive a dying adventurer ally1/chapter2
Hit for 15+ damage against 1 enemy1/chapter2
Kill 3 minions in 1 attack1/chapter2
Take 50 enemy damage in 1 session1/chapter2
Create your own characterSeason5
Create a character with Character BuilderSeason5
Survive 8+ sessions without dyingSeason5


Season 3:


RENOWN POINT AWARDS


Complete an Encounter:                                  3 Renown Points
Hit a Milestone:                                               2 Renown Points
Complete All Quests:                                      5 Renown Points *
Revive a Dying Adventurer Ally:                   1 Renown Point *
Hit for +15 Damage Against 1 Enemy:    1 Renown Point *
Kill 3 Minions with 1 Attack:                            1 Renown Point *
Take 50 Enemy Damage in 1 Session:   1 Renown Point *
Survive 10+ Sessions without Dying:         2 Renown Points *
Moment of Greatness (1/Chapter):            2 Renown Points
Create a D&D Essentials Character:      5 Renown Points *
(Accomplishments with * are only earnable once per season, per player)

- Rico
Some of the opportunities are alot more difficult than others:

Revive a dying ally - As a DM its sometimes hard to drop a player, and I've only done so in a few encounters (Last season, since whoever had the key got focused on.. so it was more in the players control).  Mainly because players start to look slightly irritated as they get close to 0, especially if it means all they do during their turn is make a death save.... And with some encounters only lasting 3-4 rounds, they are left out of a significant portion of the battle.  Suggestion: Revive a dying ally, or if you grant an ally a saving throw against an effect and it is successful.

Take 50 damage - Again usually when a player hits this, the leader hits the other... But sometimes combats are just too short to actually build to this.  I was sure I got one player to this point, but his total damage ended up only being 46 damage.  Since that was the first encounter of the day, and he was a rogue, he had to play it very safe for the rest of encounters that chapter.  Also the defenders are sometimes the hardest ones to get to achieve this, because they are built to mitigate damage via higher defenses.  Suggestion: Take 40 damage, its still a significant amount of damage, but it won't put someone out of commission terribly, and its slightly easier to hit in quicker combats.

Kill 3 Minions with 1 Attack - Not every encounter has minions. And when they do its not always easy to get them grouped in such a fasion to hit enough. Not to mention, on a low Initiative, your defenders and strikers might have already removed enough that its impossible again, or you attempt to do it and miss one of the 3 minions in the blast, you just made it impossible for yourself to achieve it by hitting. And another thing, why do they have to be minions?  In one season I had a monk that was able to kill 2 minions and a swarm in one attack (and finish a standard with flurry), but that doesn't qualify.  Suggestion: Kill 3 creatures in 1 turn, it makes it possible in non-minion encounters, and allows for a blast to hit 2, and action point to kill a third.


Hit for +15 Damage - This one is so easy, it almost makes up for the difficulty of the others.  If your character is equipped to deal 15 damage (even if its max damage), there's a good chance you'll do it once per chapter.  So if this were truly the Striker one the difficulty should be upped, otherwise it sits there for "most" players to be able to reach.  There isn't a such thing as an encounter that makes this impossible to get.

Always a GM, never a player (not really but sometimes feels like it).

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Some of the opportunities are alot more difficult than others:

Revive a dying ally - As a DM its sometimes hard to drop a player, and I've only done so in a few encounters (Last season, since whoever had the key got focused on.. so it was more in the players control).  Mainly because players start to look slightly irritated as they get close to 0, especially if it means all they do during their turn is make a death save.... And with some encounters only lasting 3-4 rounds, they are left out of a significant portion of the battle.  Suggestion: Revive a dying ally, or if you grant an ally a saving throw against an effect and it is successful.

Take 50 damage - Again usually when a player hits this, the leader hits the other... But sometimes combats are just too short to actually build to this.  I was sure I got one player to this point, but his total damage ended up only being 46 damage.  Since that was the first encounter of the day, and he was a rogue, he had to play it very safe for the rest of encounters that chapter.  Also the defenders are sometimes the hardest ones to get to achieve this, because they are built to mitigate damage via higher defenses.  Suggestion: Take 40 damage, its still a significant amount of damage, but it won't put someone out of commission terribly, and its slightly easier to hit in quicker combats.

Kill 3 Minions with 1 Attack - Not every encounter has minions. And when they do its not always easy to get them grouped in such a fasion to hit enough. Not to mention, on a low Initiative, your defenders and strikers might have already removed enough that its impossible again, or you attempt to do it and miss one of the 3 minions in the blast, you just made it impossible for yourself to achieve it by hitting. And another thing, why do they have to be minions?  In one season I had a monk that was able to kill 2 minions and a swarm in one attack (and finish a standard with flurry), but that doesn't qualify.  Suggestion: Kill 3 creatures in 1 turn, it makes it possible in non-minion encounters, and allows for a blast to hit 2, and action point to kill a third.


Hit for +15 Damage - This one is so easy, it almost makes up for the difficulty of the others.  If your character is equipped to deal 15 damage (even if its max damage), there's a good chance you'll do it once per chapter.  So if this were truly the Striker one the difficulty should be upped, otherwise it sits there for "most" players to be able to reach.  There isn't a such thing as an encounter that makes this impossible to get.



All very good points. I think the Take 50 points of damage is probably the hardest of them all, and the +15 is definitely the easiest. I played some and DM'd some last season and when I played I was able to hit for 15+ with my striker more than once. In the first encounter of this season, playing a striker I actually did it twice. They could bump it up to 20+ or make it Kill a non-minion enemy with one hit.

As for getting a player to the point of dying, in a couple of the encounters I DMd in chapters 4 and 5 of last season I actually had to pull my punches a bit to avoid killing the party. But a lot of that really depends on the luck of the dice.
- Rico
With deadly DM dice and enough healers, 50 damage can be done even on non-tanks. It's not too hard for our group, but we've had quite a few TPKs in past seasons.

I don't think anyone in our group has ever gone without getting the 15+ damage. The Clerics and Wizard could get 15+ damage by dropping their daily.

I've always considered killing 3 minions the most difficult task since you have to be playing something which can hit multiple enemies during the encounter where there are minions to be killed. Usually, there's only 4 minions, and you have to have them where you can hit them.

Our DM doesn't surf the boards though, so it's unlikely that any changes will be made at our table.
From my experience as a player, the revive an ally tends to be very easy to get. We start over at level 1 each season, which means that it only takes a little bit of DM luck to put any character on the board into the red. Yeah, easy fights like this last one arent going to do it, but having played 11 full chapters now, theres been at least 1 hard fight each day and anyone can drop a healing potion on someone dying. Last season i survived the 50 damage one with a 24hp illusion mage(we didnt have a tank that week, though i still couldnt explain how it was determined that i would be the one to fill in). I think youd have to purposefully build something that way to not be able to hit 15 damage. The hardest one has to be the minions. The DM at my table has allowed it to be 3 in one round to make this more achievable(and even allowed not-strictly-by-the-book options for the characters without the possibility of multi-attacks/blasts, like one darksun week where the fighter threw a minion off a ledge onto another one, then action pointed to charge a 3rd), and even with the consessions it gets missed sometimes.
I think the RP's are just fine this season.  Players can always have a friend print a Character Builder print of their PC if they need to.  The other ones have a good chance to come up at least once a session (not 100%, but at least a good chance).  Over the course of the adventure players have a chance to earn over 80 RP's, far more than enough to get to 60!

Basically its better to give the players more rewards than less.  DDE isn't about being exclusive, but about being inclusive.  The 20 point card is easy to get, the 40 point card a little harder, and the 60 point card does take a bit of dedication and maybe a little luck.  And that all makes it fun!  And thats why we all play, for fun Smile
Some of the opportunities are alot more difficult than others:

Revive a dying ally - As a DM its sometimes hard to drop a player, and I've only done so in a few encounters (Last season, since whoever had the key got focused on.. so it was more in the players control).  Mainly because players start to look slightly irritated as they get close to 0, especially if it means all they do during their turn is make a death save.... And with some encounters only lasting 3-4 rounds, they are left out of a significant portion of the battle.  Suggestion: Revive a dying ally, or if you grant an ally a saving throw against an effect and it is successful.

Take 50 damage - Again usually when a player hits this, the leader hits the other... But sometimes combats are just too short to actually build to this.  I was sure I got one player to this point, but his total damage ended up only being 46 damage.  Since that was the first encounter of the day, and he was a rogue, he had to play it very safe for the rest of encounters that chapter.  Also the defenders are sometimes the hardest ones to get to achieve this, because they are built to mitigate damage via higher defenses.  Suggestion: Take 40 damage, its still a significant amount of damage, but it won't put someone out of commission terribly, and its slightly easier to hit in quicker combats.



I played a defender last game and had a very hard time taking 50 damage.  I took around 40, had gone down (no healer), then someone revived me.  I feel that to take 50 damage you need to be a barbarian or something with low AC and a lot of health and hope you have a leader with you to heal it up.
Also for healers, if you're doing your job, you won't have to sustain someone.  the first game our healer kept people from going down.
I've been in 2 games and both times the same striker hit his renown damage (only getting the points once, I know), and in the second game another striker hit that damage too.  Seemed crazy easy.  I chose defender because there are always a butt load of strikers and no one wants to defend or heal. 
Take 50 damage - Again usually when a player hits this, the leader hits the other... But sometimes combats are just too short to actually build to this.  I was sure I got one player to this point, but his total damage ended up only being 46 damage.  Since that was the first encounter of the day, and he was a rogue, he had to play it very safe for the rest of encounters that chapter.  Also the defenders are sometimes the hardest ones to get to achieve this, because they are built to mitigate damage via higher defenses.  Suggestion: Take 40 damage, its still a significant amount of damage, but it won't put someone out of commission terribly, and its slightly easier to hit in quicker combats.


I played a defender last game and had a very hard time taking 50 damage.  I took around 40, had gone down (no healer), then someone revived me.  I feel that to take 50 damage you need to be a barbarian or something with low AC and a lot of health and hope you have a leader with you to heal it up.


During season 2, I played Yuka (Mul brawling fighter) and sucked up 101 points of damage in the fight against the halflings. I also picked up a dead/dying halfling and used it as a weapon to smack some others, so I also got the "Moment of Greatness" award for that session.