Errata/Rules Update ever going to happen?

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There have been a lot of identified problems since the release of the game.  We have yet to see errata/rules updates.  Should we be expecting some?  Or are there no plans for rules updates?
D&D & Boardgames If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
The identified "problems" have been pretty minuscule. Most of them are simply typos or clarifications (similar to most of the 4e errata). I would suggest that rather than worry about WotC coming up with "official errata" we just compile a set of our own and make it a linkable living document.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I would suggest that rather than worry about WotC coming up with "official errata" we just compile a set of our own and make it a linkable living document.



Which is pretty much what this board is all about. Gotta love the GW community here!
Encounters DM, Season 4 & Season 5 - Amorous Armadillo Game Shoppe - Oviedo, FL
CG: Quite true!
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.

Though the community is usefull and strong, most of the issues I'm sure the OP is talking about have produced amusing levels of debate for a game featuring mutant chickens.  I'd imagine they are hoping for a more solid list of answers that don't break down into "some of us do this, some of us do that, so you do whatever since its all good at your table."   

Though the community is usefull and strong, most of the issues I'm sure the OP is talking about have produced amusing levels of debate for a game featuring mutant chickens.  I'd imagine they are hoping for a more solid list of answers that don't break down into "some of us do this, some of us do that, so you do whatever since its all good at your table."   

mvincent likes.

Well, I guess we could sit around waiting for WotC to spoon feed the official solutions to the really small percentage of us that even know there is such a thing as game errata. But while sitting, I suggest we not hold our breath.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
OP here.

If we produce out own errata/rules update and then WotC does, it creates confusion and - potentially - frustration.  I'd rather know if official rules updates are coming rather than make my own and then need to change them to accomodate the WotC rulings.   And I think we're pretty far from a concensus in terms of what needs to be changed and how it needs to be changed.

I was pretty frustrated when I went through the rule book and cards and noticed a number of problems and rules that needed clarification.  If I spot them on my first time through in a casual glance, how can they not have been picked up by really basic editing efforts?  I don't expect perfection from WotC, but I do expect better than we've seen in the past few years from WotC in their RPG products.

Andwhen you top that off with a lackof communication and follow-through with errata/rules updates, it is maddening.
D&D & Boardgames If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
If I spot them on my first time through in a casual glance, how can they not have been picked up by really basic editing efforts?

(I have answered this question so many times that I should probably just save it in my sig.)

Ever work in a multi-layer, multi-product publishing environment? You and I have the advantage of seeing the finished product, something copy editors don't see until it is back from the printer. Between designers, managing editors, copy editors, layout editors, and non-editors, the product content that any given editor gets to see is so far removed from the finally-sent-to-the-printers copy that half the mistakes they find have already been resolved, and the other half are no longer found in the same paragraph/column/page/chapter.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
...Ever work in a multi-layer, multi-product publishing environment? You and I have the advantage of seeing the finished product, something copy editors don't see until it is back from the printer. Between designers, managing editors, copy editors, layout editors, and non-editors, the product content that any given editor gets to see is so far removed from the finally-sent-to-the-printers copy that half the mistakes they find have already been resolved, and the other half are no longer found in the same paragraph/column/page/chapter.

That is an explanation as to why the errors are present, not an excuse.  PLENTY of other publishers have higher quaity product without similar problems.  There are people with jobs that are specifically devoted to avoiding these types of mistakes.  Regardless of whether a system makes it harder or easier, it is still their job.  These problems could have been avoided and should have been avoided. 

D&D & Boardgames If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
For me, the question of whether the errors should've been caught is beside the point. The thing that bugs me is that this is WOTC's official board, yet no one from the company seems to so much as drop by. Even if official errata never came, it'd be so helpful if one of the designers could poke his head in and say "we meant to do that" (or otherwise) when it comes to the Felinoid, Alien or Magnetic powers. I don't know how significant this product is in the greater WOTC scheme, but but it's important enough to warrant a couple expansions. It'd be nice if someone behind the scenes appeared to take an interest in the game's boosters.
That is an explanation as to why the errors are present, not an excuse.

Perhaps you have mistaken the meaning of the words explanation and excuse? An explanation is better than an excuse. You may not consider it excusable, but the explanation *is* sufficient. An explanation provides understanding. However, an explanation, when providing understanding, easily undermines the objective of one seeking to point fingers and place blame. Whether this is your objective is unknown to me. But I've seen the blame game played by enough folks on these Boards to at least call it out when I think I see it. It is usually detectable when an explanation is ignored, cast aside, or minimized.
PLENTY of other publishers have higher quality product without similar problems.

Could you perhaps provide a few examples of these PLENTY of other publishers? (I'm not even requesting that you provide PLENTY of examples. Just a few).) I haven't found a game publisher yet that doesn't have similar problems. White Wolf, Steve Jackson (GURPS) and Palladium all have similar problems. (And kudos to White Wolf  and Steve Jackson for providing errata as readily and freely as WotC!)

Also, when you say "higher quality product" what do you mean? I have no doubt that there are PLENTY of other publishers whose products you *like* better. But to claim they have "higher quality product" requires a criteria by which we can measure quality. I would be interested in learning of the criteria by which you judge something to be higher quality. From said criteria, we can collectively evaluate your charge. A reasonable set of criteria can provide a metric agaisnt which we can evaluate all gaming products, and in so doing, rank D&D against other games. I am confident that with a reasonable set of criteria, D&D will rank better than other games in some categories, and worse than other games in some categories. But if by "higher quality product" you mean fewer errors, I do not think you will find any game approaching the complexity of D&D with fewer errors.

Yes, I am going full tilt in this reply. See, I love D&D. I have enjoyed it for over 30 years. Although I recognize the errors when I see them (I am a book editor by profession), I find it unhelpful to anonymously castigate the publisher when a perfectly reasonable explanation provides understanding for how such errors could appear. I am  confident that the number of errors caught by the various editors are exponentially greater than the number of errors that make it into print. The hyperbole used by those who offer such anonymous castigations is simultaneously amusing and infuriating. Amusing, because the rarely helpful sense of superiority I feel in this realm of discussion smiles at the ignorance that is required to offer such blame. Infuriating, because I share a sense of kinship with the unseen targets of the blame.

If blame is your objective (rather than understanding), then no explanation, however reasonable and accurate it may be, will serve as adequate defense against your charge. Blame s merely unproductive. If understanding is your objective (rather than blame), then recognize that I offer the contents of this post as an explanation for why I would take issue with what appear to me to be overstated claims, unfounded charges, and empty comparisons.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
For me, the question of whether the errors should've been caught is beside the point. The thing that bugs me is that this is WOTC's official board, yet no one from the company seems to so much as drop by.

The designers used to participate on these Boards quite frequently. But the responses they got were so full of vitriolic blame and insult that they (wisely) stopped. It just wasn't worth it.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
The designers used to participate on these Boards quite frequently. But the responses they got were so full of vitriolic blame and insult that they (wisely) stopped. It just wasn't worth it.



Good customer service is always "worth it." In my own job (program director for a public TV station) I receive my fair share of angry and even abusive e-mails, yet I still answer them. It's part of showing that our service is worthy of support.

There are always going to be belligerent, unreasonable people (and I could tell you stories about one of my frequent correspondents), but responding to questions and concerns is important to building customer loyalty. I don't know what's happened here in the past; what I see now is a group of enthusiastic boosters with legitimate inquiries being ignored.
thats a shame, its like the elves leaving...


also, why would they get yelled at? they are basically the Council, creating the baseline for play.
The designers used to participate on these Boards quite frequently. But the responses they got were so full of vitriolic blame and insult that they (wisely) stopped. It just wasn't worth it.



Good customer service is always "worth it." In my own job (program director for a public TV station) I receive my fair share of angry and even abusive e-mails, yet I still answer them. It's part of showing that our service is worthy of support.

There are always going to be belligerent, unreasonable people (and I could tell you stories about one of my frequent correspondents), but responding to questions and concerns is important to building customer loyalty. I don't know what's happened here in the past; what I see now is a group of enthusiastic boosters with legitimate inquiries being ignored.



They have the Customer Service e-mail for that, and it's actually their job.  Designers design, developers develop, and Customer Service serves customers.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

They have the Customer Service e-mail for that, and it's actually their job.  Designers design, developers develop, and Customer Service serves customers.



Where I work, producers produce and managers manage, but every one of us--from the general manager on down--is in the customer service business. If it pertains to my area of expertise, I'm either directly answering the question or passing along the correct information to the person taking the call.

If that's not the case with WOTC, then has anyone posed these questions to the Customer Service e-mail? And have they responded?

They have the Customer Service e-mail for that, and it's actually their job.  Designers design, developers develop, and Customer Service serves customers.



Where I work, producers produce and managers manage, but every one of us--from the general manager on down--is in the customer service business. If it pertains to my area of expertise, I'm either directly answering the question or passing along the correct information to the person taking the call.

If that's not the case with WOTC, then has anyone posed these questions to the Customer Service e-mail? And have they responded?


I'm glad I don't work where you work. A lart part of the reason I like the job I have now is that I don't have to deal with the unwashed masses.
This isn't really a topic worth getting angry about.  Wizards does a decent job editing their products I'm sure, and Errata is usually published fairly quickly when it's actually needed.  That being said; I think we can all agree that they could do a better job of it.  I suspect they would too, but things like deadlines and multiple projects reduce the quality of ones work.  There is also something to be said about there being too many cooks in the kitchen sometimes.  Any large company that doesn't make quality control a major priority will have these problems, and i'm sure we can all live with them.  Answers on the things we are just forced to guess on would be nice though.
Good customer service is always "worth it."

These Boards are where fans come for fan-based service from each other. Fans who want customer service contact Customer Service, where they receive it directly.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I went ahead and contacted customer service to see what kind of answer I'll get.  As soon as I get one I'll post it
Good customer service is always "worth it."

These Boards are where fans come for fan-based service from each other. Fans who want customer service contact Customer Service, where they receive it directly.




I dunno if I'd want fanservice from around here!
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The designers used to participate on these Boards quite frequently. But the responses they got were so full of vitriolic blame and insult that they (wisely) stopped. It just wasn't worth it.



I can't say I blame them really, especially if you're talking about the community forums in general. I've seen far too many threads whining or complaining about one thing or another, esp in GD and RQ&A. Have they just stopped in general, or were you referring to Gamma World? Im pretty sure Ive never seen an official Gamma World post.
D&D Boards, specifically. Gamma World is too new (WotC Boards-wise) to have had its own forums in the past.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Maybe I'm just spoiled by the Board Game Geek boards. Game designers--including those from WOTC/Hasbro--chime in there fairly regularly. There have been semi-official clarifications there regarding Castle Ravenloft, another recent D&D/WOTC product. It'd be nice to see something similar on the WOTC boards. Unlike BGG, the company actually has the ability to enforce good behavior here, were they so inclined.
These Boards are where fans come for fan-based service from each other. Fans who want customer service contact Customer Service, where they receive it directly.



While I am totally in agreeance that the fan-based service on these boards is top-notch, I have to agree with dodonna here. There are some questions about which the community simply can't come to a consensus, such as the Engineered Human and Lodestone Lure questions. Yes, we can inform new players that its up to the GM to rule as he or she sees fit in these cases, but I think most of us would very much like to know what the designers intended in cases like this so that we can rule accordingly.

I'm not asking that every writer be required to read every nut-job's criticism of his work, but there's really no reason that we, the fans, shouldn't expect someone official to take a look through the Errata board once a week or so and post a "Good catch, looks like that was a typo" or a "No, it actually IS supposed to work that way." Otherwise, what's the point of the Errata boards?

I'd greatly prefer to see one of the designers or writers filling this role, because WotC Customer Service has historically shown itself to be neither innately familiar with the RAW vs. RAI dynamic, nor inclined to get their answers from anyone who is. That said, even a part-time Customer Service Rep "looking into it" would be an improvement over the whole lot of nothin' the Errata boards get today.

Again, I don't expect the GW line to be treated like a prize stallion, but throw us a bone here!
Encounters DM, Season 4 & Season 5 - Amorous Armadillo Game Shoppe - Oviedo, FL
I mostly agree with Chaotic's sentiment here. I understand them not coming and posting alot or anything like that - as Seeker said, they get alot of flak around here. But they could, say, have someone look at the errata forum, and then come check here and actually read the discussion about it and make a post about 'looking in to it'. There are some serious errors in the book, some of which will cripple more rules-oriented games (like lack of DCs), as well as some major issues like undefined keywords/actions which will put off players who arent also into 4E. Those should at the very least be addressed in some official manner, even if all it is is someone looking at the errata board and making an FAQ based on whats here on the forum.
There are some questions about which the community simply can't come to a consensus, such as the Engineered Human and Lodestone Lure questions.

"F*****' magnets... how do they work?" - ICP

There are some questions about which the community simply can't come to a consensus, such as the Engineered Human and Lodestone Lure questions.

"F*****' magnets... how do they work?" - ICP





TC: MiRaClEs
astralArchivist.com - 4e D&D house rules, homebrew, and story hours - now featuring ENWorld's Zeitgeist adventure path! Will Thibault is a winged, feathered serpent rarely found anywhere except in warm, jungle-like regions or flying through the ether. Due to his intelligence and powers he is regarded with awe by the inhabitants of his homelands and is considered to be divine.
I'm not going to engage in a drawn out debate with someone personally invested in defending the honor of editers everywhere. 

I'm just going to state my opinion: A professional product should not contain errors that a majority of its readers identify as problems on a first read through. 

If it has those types of problems (regardless of whether those problems exist because a human made a mistake, because a system did not allow for a problem to be identified, or because Buto the Dancing Clown died), then it does not meet the level of quality I expect in a professional product.  Gamma World fell short of that target.  I wasn't expecting perfection, but I think it is reasonable to expect better.

Regardless, my initial question is what I really care about now: When will we know whether we will or will not be getting errata/rules updates?  Is Gamma World going to get continued support, or is it just a one off product with  few expansions that we will not see supported in the future?


D&D & Boardgames If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
is it just a one off product with  few expansions

fwiw: WotC has indictated that this was the intent for GW.

is it just a one off product with  few expansions

fwiw: WotC has indictated that this was the intent for GW.


While that's true, errata has never been something that needs to be a "scheduled release" before we can expect it and it also doesn't exclude articles from showing up in Dragon or Dungeon. Unlikely, sure - but hardly a flat no.
When will we know whether we will or will not be getting errata/rules updates?  Is Gamma World going to get continued support, or is it just a one off product with  few expansions that we will not see supported in the future?



TBH, Wizards has indicated in the past that this is an experimental thing - releasing an old setting in a boxed format, and see how well it does before deciding if theyre going to support it further. So I honestly don't think we'll ever officially hear ahead of time if theyre gonna support it. Partly because even they don't know yet til they get more extended sales figures, and partly because no company in thier right mind would ever say they aren't supporting a product unless theyve been supporting and are ceasing said support, especially when thier still releasing the product.

And, btw, I do agree with you about level of professionalism. I'm not especially exacting or anything, and honestly the Lodestone Lure issue falls into my range of acceptance. However, when rules are not included for keywords as important as Charge that appear in powers in the book. . . then I have a problem. Thats jsut not meeting my expectations of professionalism. Not to say that there isn't plenty of merit - I personally, and my group, play 4E so we can just infer rules so its not a big deal. But thats not gonna stop us from going 'Tsk tsk WotC. . . you can do better'.
"F*****' magnets... how do they work?" - ICP



LOL!

I think you know what I mean, though. All it would take is for a WotC CSR to post, "Actually, that was a typo; it should be a Standard action," or "No, the designers actually intended for the Magnetic origin to be a crazy powerful controller; feel free to houserule it if it's too powerful for your tastes" to end that debate (for the most part).

One or two sentences, boom, done. On to the next issue. I don't think that's asking a lot out of product support.
Encounters DM, Season 4 & Season 5 - Amorous Armadillo Game Shoppe - Oviedo, FL
I wonder if Gamma World is successful we'll see other old TSR stuff. Star Frontiers anyone?
I wonder if Gamma World is successful we'll see other old TSR stuff. Star Frontiers anyone?



Im hoping so. And Im curious as to how well its doing. In my area, its done pretty well. FLGS are constantly sold out of the boxes for a few weeks after release, and they get new ones each week. I had to go to a major chain (Barnes&Noble) to get my Famine because noone else had any copies like 3 weeks after release.
I wonder if Gamma World is successful we'll see other old TSR stuff. Star Frontiers anyone?

Per a DDXP tweet:
"No current plans for a Star Frontiers rework a la Gamma World, but Mike Mearls is a fan & he would love to see it happen."