A positive opinion of WotC and a happy customer.

120 posts / 0 new
Last post
With so much doom and gloom I want to say ... I'm a happy customer and like the way things go. 

With the exception of the removal of compiled issues (they should automate the process). 

I think the content of dragon & dungeon is improving.  Seems that later surveys did help

I think communication is improving, they are broadcasting almost every day and then. From bug fixes (300+ on the last CB update!!!) to delays on magazine articles (R&D involved on them!).

And finally, the CB ... I really like it, and I think it have a lot of potential.

Come on, one of the next things planed is characters sharing (yay!) ... and MB (Online) is in the works. I imagine MB will have sharing too ...

And the VT tool ... it's a nice application, and people are already sharing adventures, monsters and whatever in it.

The idea of all those applications working together (on a cloud system) is really exciting ... maybe in a future we would share house rules too.

Who knows, maybe wizards could become the Valve+Steam of RPGs

Something like no subscription social platform where people can sell they works (monster packs, adventures, campaign settings) and WotC taking a % from the sell . That would be reaaaal nice.

So ... I'm very excited for D&D future, it has a lot of potential, and I'm happy with it. 
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
I wanted to jump in before the weather start to turn. Wink

Dimus, may your positivity be contagious. Yes The future is in DDi with the VT, the OCB and OMB the Compendium, Dungeon & Dragons + books worth of wealth canned in articles. It might be a great digital era for D&D debuting. 

I like what DDi gives me so far. I currently am a BETA Tester in the VT and from what i could see, i could see a potential of a community sharing and playing that could be more than awesome. We are not there yet. But i can see a great potential.

Lets's stay optimists !

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Many of the things which please you appear to be speculative. 

-Hoping R&D involvement will improve magazine quality, not reduce it (in the past, the magazines have had fewer errors and glaring imbalances than published books, due in large part to these forums tearing the article apart before compilation)  The recent "crunchy" bits, limited as they are, have the appearance of a "design by committee" process.

-The CB's "potential".  Good luck with that.

-Planned features for the CB, like character sharing.

-Online MB

-The VT

-All of the above "working together"

-Pure speculation of a "social platform" where people will be able to sell homebrew content.

You've been here a long time: you know WotC's track record on digital products.  It's great to be an optimist, but I feel like you're setting yourself up for a major letdown when/if some/most/all of this proves to be too much to hope for.
I'm kind of optimistic for the future as well. When all those things you think are going to happen actually do happen I might even resubscribe, but at the moment I'm not happy to pay to be a beta tester, or to have my service reduce just in a failed attempt to combat piracy. Also interesting to note that the positive message starts with an exception as it second line.
Potential does not make a good product.  If you buy potential, I have some undeveloped land I'd like to sell you a house on at full price.  You'll only have to live in a tent for a year or two whilst we build it.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Don't get me wrong Damon_tor, I don't subscribe for possible future updates ...

I like what I have now.

It's not like I'm always 100% with WotC on his decisions, but overall I'm pretty satisfied. I know the track record of WotC, and I still have faith in them

Did you know a game made by Turbine called DDO? I have faith on it when it sold poorly, it had a lot of potential (for me at least), and liked what it had. While they made some poor decisions, they learned from them and finally did take great ones. Now the game is more alive than ever.

DDI  and WotC make me remember them. They got a poor start, got a lot of bad rep ... but they continue, they work on new things, and ... while most people don't credit them for it ... they listen to his customer base.

And about R&D involvement ... I don't get your point. Forums will tear content anyway, so bugs and balance will still improve over books.

And as I see it, it seems WotC is pouring content of "canceled" books on DDI ... which is cool.
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
Potential does not make a good product.  If you buy potential, I have some undeveloped land I'd like to sell you a house on at full price.  You'll only have to live in a tent for a year or two whilst we build it.


You don't get it ... 

I'm not paying WotC for what they are making. I'm paying WotC for what they have.

But ... to be true, if WotC crew asked for some kind of patronizing (like people of kobold quarterly) I would gladly consider it.
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
Fair enough.

I will admit, there were some things I valued about my subscription.  But they're gradually being stripped away.  The only thing really remaining that I see as worth it is the Compendium.  And it's not worth that much, particularly when it makes a functional reference tool in combination with the original CB and printed material, even without a subscription.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Fair enough.

I will admit, there were some things I valued about my subscription.  But they're gradually being stripped away.  The only thing really remaining that I see as worth it is the Compendium.  And it's not worth that much, particularly when it makes a functional reference tool in combination with the original CB and printed material, even without a subscription.


I suppose you refer to the CB and MB becoming online tools ... (and later, the magazine compilation thing). While I understand the concern of other gamers about not being able to use the builders without a connection (to a certain point) ...  for me it seems like a good move.

The data they can gather on his customer gaming habits is critical. They can analyze the impact of articles on character creation habits, detect tendencies, and a lot of things to help balance the game and make more interesting stuff.

And as I mentioned early, it serves as a base to creating a social network around the game where gamers can exchange content.

When Valve created Steam, they received a lot of bad mouthing for it (but I supported it too XD) ... nowadays it's clear it was the best decision they have made over his entire company history. From autopatching and surveys  to statistics on games and gaming habits, they have great tools to comprehend their customers.

WotC is in the way, they are uploading all the info on his servers, so they can manage, analyze, and improve all of them. Sadly this means no offline tools ... but it isn't hard to imagine, that someday they could make some offline tools to support his online suit (like character trackers, etc).

Yeah, I'm dreaming a bit to far here, but dreaming is free, hehe

And anyways, now that you can export those files, 3rd party devs can make interesting stuff to try to supplement the system faults.
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
I'm happy, even though WoTC has made some blunders. In the end, none of the blunders have stopped me from being able to play.

Sure, some have slowed down my ability to prep faster. And in the end, that's all DDi is meant to do. I don't use it for entertainment, in the sense of just sitting there making characters.

Sometimes the articles in the magazines are useful, sometimes not, but isn't that true of all magazines?

But it also seems like this is the first time that WoTc is actively trying to bring in more players.

And I think a lot of changes we are seeing to DDi is because they realize that they need to have an online playing area (The VT) that works with the tools, and be safe from people taking their IP and is completely intergrated. I think how they have handled their several changes in direction could have been way better. I think in a few cases, they really did try some spin doctoring, and it failed.

But over all, I am having way more fun being the DM this time around, because it's less work, and that is do to the choices they made in redesigning the game. Now if they can make prep time much easier, I will be a very happy customer.
Many of the things which please you appear to be speculative. 

-Hoping R&D involvement will improve magazine quality, not reduce it (in the past, the magazines have had fewer errors and glaring imbalances than published books, due in large part to these forums tearing the article apart before compilation)  The recent "crunchy" bits, limited as they are, have the appearance of a "design by committee" process.

-The CB's "potential".  Good luck with that.

-Planned features for the CB, like character sharing.

-Online MB

-The VT

-All of the above "working together"

-Pure speculation of a "social platform" where people will be able to sell homebrew content.

You've been here a long time: you know WotC's track record on digital products.  It's great to be an optimist, but I feel like you're setting yourself up for a major letdown when/if some/most/all of this proves to be too much to hope for.



community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Owned?
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
Oooh, beta testing.  I remember the last Monster Builder they had us beta test.

(It's still in beta)
Seriously man ... it's raining on your city or what?
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
I'm just saying, Monster Builder 1 never got out of beta.  I'm not sure why anything different is expected out of Monster Builder 2.
I'm just saying, Monster Builder 1 never got out of beta.  I'm not sure why anything different is expected out of Monster Builder 2.



Maybe it never get out of beta because they where planing to do the VT and they tough they needed his tools to become online to do a seamlessly connectivity between them. First the CB, next the MB.

Or not ...

But anyway, it isn't like they do nothing ... 300 bug fixes on last CB update, the VT is getting his fixes too, they are advancing with his agenda.

Once in a time, CBC was in beta.

What make you think this one will not get out of it?
-Ask me about Sketch Combat.
i had a long running argument with my father about buying a computer.  his position was that the instant he bought a computer, it would be obsolete.   the newest fastest thing would be available the day after he bought it.

my position was that if an object does what you want it to, it is not obsolete.  DDi does what "I" want it to do.  I do not care if it has a beta lable forever.  it does what i want it to do. 

get together, drink beer, role dice.
Yeah, what he said. ^^^
With so much doom and gloom I want to say ... I'm a happy customer and like the way things go. 

With the exception of the removal of compiled issues (they should automate the process). 

I think the content of dragon & dungeon is improving.  Seems that later surveys did help

I think communication is improving, they are broadcasting almost every day and then. From bug fixes (300+ on the last CB update!!!) to delays on magazine articles (R&D involved on them!).

And finally, the CB ... I really like it, and I think it have a lot of potential.

Come on, one of the next things planed is characters sharing (yay!) ... and MB (Online) is in the works. I imagine MB will have sharing too ...

And the VT tool ... it's a nice application, and people are already sharing adventures, monsters and whatever in it.

The idea of all those applications working together (on a cloud system) is really exciting ... maybe in a future we would share house rules too.

Who knows, maybe wizards could become the Valve+Steam of RPGs

Something like no subscription social platform where people can sell they works (monster packs, adventures, campaign settings) and WotC taking a % from the sell . That would be reaaaal nice.

So ... I'm very excited for D&D future, it has a lot of potential, and I'm happy with it. 

You know, I was a humongous fan at its beginings and almost all the way through the product till the last 3 or 4 months. New leadership and direction has hampered an already prospering product. I feel sometimes like if I were to go to the offices where they make and write the game everything would be working backwards, no gravity, people walking backwards, hairless cats, and toilets that flush water like in Australia. I don't share your optimism at all, there was a time when I did. From my stand point they have a long way to earn my respect and trust again. Optimism doesn't give me a paycheck at the end of the day, and when I go to budget anymore I hradly take WotC into consideration. I haven't bought books in a month, and now I have 2 new x-box games and a hamster, and even though I have to clean up after Mr.T's poop it bothers me less than the stuff they have done recently.

Optimism doesn't give me a paycheck at the end of the day,

Neither does pessimism.  Just sayin'.

Celebrate our differences.

Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans. Also, that people with positive attitudes land jobs at interview more often than their negative counterparts.

So yes. Optimism can pay your bills and pessimism can kill you.

Have a good one!
Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans. Also, that people with positive attitudes land jobs at interview more often than their negative counterparts.

So yes. Optimism can pay your bills and pessimism can kill you.

Have a good one!



Those studies are flawed as they don't take into account stress levels, depression, and other factors. All depressed people are pessimists and therefore the pessimist side of the study looks bad. While not all pessimists are depressed.

People with positive attitudes and "nothing can go wrong" is what happened to our economy... just saying...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans. Also, that people with positive attitudes land jobs at interview more often than their negative counterparts.

So yes. Optimism can pay your bills and pessimism can kill you.

Have a good one!



Those studies are flawed as they don't take into account stress levels, depression, and other factors. All depressed people are pessimists and therefore the pessimist side of the study looks bad. While not all pessimists are depressed.

People with positive attitudes and "nothing can go wrong" is what happened to our economy... just saying...



That's a big claim without either side being able to back up anything.

Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans. Also, that people with positive attitudes land jobs at interview more often than their negative counterparts.

So yes. Optimism can pay your bills and pessimism can kill you.

Have a good one!



Those studies are flawed as they don't take into account stress levels, depression, and other factors. All depressed people are pessimists and therefore the pessimist side of the study looks bad. While not all pessimists are depressed.

People with positive attitudes and "nothing can go wrong" is what happened to our economy... just saying...



You really take your pessimism seriously, don't you?
Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans. Also, that people with positive attitudes land jobs at interview more often than their negative counterparts.

So yes. Optimism can pay your bills and pessimism can kill you.

Have a good one!



Those studies are flawed as they don't take into account stress levels, depression, and other factors. All depressed people are pessimists and therefore the pessimist side of the study looks bad. While not all pessimists are depressed.

People with positive attitudes and "nothing can go wrong" is what happened to our economy... just saying...



You really take your pessimism seriously, don't you?



I just don't think pessimism is a negative thing. Its like everything in existence, a good balance of pessimism and optimism is best rather than too much optimism or too much pessimism. Since there are people that are way too optimistic, I balance this out with my pessimism.

Also when people ask me if the glass is half-full, I tell them it is at the mid-point...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I'm an optimist.  And I'm happy most of the time.  I don't know if they are related but I feel like they are.  I do know it's great to feel happy most of the time.  

Then again, both optimism and pessimism require making extrapolations based on known facts, so the real question is: What *are* facts, and how can we truly *know* anything? Once we come to a consensus on that, we can get back on topic.
Then again, both optimism and pessimism require making extrapolations based on known facts, so the real question is: What *are* facts, and how can we truly *know* anything? Once we come to a consensus on that, we can get back on topic.


We might as well start by defining "a positive opinion" and agreeing on what is happiness, while we're at it.

Saludos Adriano
Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans.



I see you weren't including this study in your statement. :P
Study after study shows that pessimists live shorter lifespans.



I see you weren't including this study in your statement. :P



Umm . . . I guess it's good to know that being an extravert or neurotic aren't risk factors for getting or surviving cancer. Question: what was this thread about again?
Umm . . . I guess it's good to know that being an extravert or neurotic aren't risk factors for getting or surviving cancer. Question: what was this thread about again?

You know, the more I think about on-topic vs. off-topic, the more I think that it's quite alright to stray now and again.  When you have conversations in real life, the topic most assuredly hops around, touching on different things, some completely off the track of the original topic.  Especially when a topic is particularly generic. 

And when a conversation strays in real life, it's not like you start an entirely new conversation from scratch (new post) or take it to the quiet room (PM).

*shrug*


Celebrate our differences.

I'm always cool with a topic shifting. Though I think it's funny how seriously my haphazard, sarcastic quipping often gets taken around here.
I can't say that WoTC has disappointed me, but I just joined DDI in December and knew that the VTT was "missing". I think the real issue with the VTT isn't the beta tests or the idea that it is vaporware or what have , but rather that WoTC (Hasbro) has to compete with a market that increasingly finds WoW and console games easier to access and play than good old pen and paper RPGs. While there will always be those of us who love the old ways, the future of the RPG is online.

If this business is going to stay as profitable as it needs to be for large parent corps like Hasbro (or even WoTC back in the late 90s) then they have to move toward the virtual realm. I just don't think there are enough new gamers being inculcated into the pen and paper style of buying hundreds of dollars worth of book, miniatures and what have you.

The VTT isn't a cool new feature so much as it is a survival tool for the forerunner in the "hobby" (which really, it isn't anymore as such) who wants to get access to some small portion of the billions of dollars in revenue Blizzard gets from WoW.

They have (so I have heard) cancelled the minis line, ended D&D Essentials and sacked much of the upper management. What this means remains to be seen (if the rumors are true), but I believe it augurs a move toward the virtual and away from the paper product.

IMO.

There are simply too many potential customers out there who are currently playing Fallout, Dragon Age, Wow, Red Dead and the like for WoTC to ignore. These are the new gamers and that's who they have to go after.

So, as much as we might bemoan the lack of VTT or the erratic quality of this or that online product, I think we can have faith that the corporation, as the organism it is, will do all it can to thrive in the new environment of 21st century gaming.


They have (so I have heard) cancelled the minis line, ended D&D Essentials and sacked much of the upper management. What this means remains to be seen (if the rumors are true), but I believe it augurs a move toward the virtual and away from the paper product.



Can we get some references? I know they killed the minis, but ended D&D Essentials? fire upper management? I mean I'd be dancing on my hat if that were true, but I don't see it...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Like i said, I don't know if it's true, but someone in the industry told me that they were dropping support for D&D Essentials and that the upper management had changed (in particular a marketing head had been replaced) but that none of the talent had changed. It certainly wouldn't be uncommon for a company to gut their management and replace them if said company felt that performance expectations had not been met.

Supposedly, much of the former executive types and their replacements are from the toy industry. It very well might be untrue, but it sounded plausible to me.

Here is an article that mentions the possibility of a 5th Edition announcement. This article also corroborates a lot of what I heard about the product line: here

From WoTC's corporate site: http://www.wizards.com/Company/Press.aspx?x=wz/press/47

This is interesting as well: www.geeknative.com/17903/are-wizards-of-...

At any rate, my prediction is that they re-focus the brand toward an online approach. If the core books are what sell best, they can print those and put new material for the game largely online in the future. Publishing in general is (slowly) moving in a similar direction.

O think a move toward the online will better position the company to compete with today's gamer's attentions.

I think it would be a good move, though a difficult one. Many companies are feeling the growing (or perhaps mutation) pains of moving toward a larger online presence.

We'll see what happens. 
Can we get some references? I know they killed the minis, but ended D&D Essentials? fire upper management? I mean I'd be dancing on my hat if that were true, but I don't see it...


Under the assumption that things would be more to your liking with the new management...
Can we get some references? I know they killed the minis, but ended D&D Essentials? fire upper management? I mean I'd be dancing on my hat if that were true, but I don't see it...


Under the assumption that things would be more to your liking with the new management...



Yeah, your right, they'd probably do something worse, like balance by level. "At level 5 the fighter is more powerful than the wizard, at level 6 the ranger is more powerful, at level 7 the wizard is more powerful. It follows this pattern all the way forward to level 30". I've really lost any optimism I had for WotC and D&D at this point...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Call this WoTC fanboi cheerleader pleased.  I'm happy to see continued progress being made.  There's still a way to go but the trend is to my liking.  I look forward to this year being able to use a mostly bugfree CB, Compendium and Monster Builder in my VT sessions.

As for physical products, personally I wouldn't care if they never released another book until they try creating 5E some day.  I already have more resources than I need to play a rich and full game and if I want anything else I just make it up.  Anything released from this point out is just gravy if you ask me.

Optimism is contagious.  The persistent negativity from certain posters is just tedious, even if it sometimes is factual.  Furthermore, it's unimaginative and makes them look ... well, I don't need a ban so I'll shut up now.

Forward, DnD4E!

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Blah, blah, blah, negative, blah, blah, ripoff, blah, blah, 4E is finished, blah, blah ...



community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Owned?



Owned.  Perhaps we can just have a standard template for those who care to trash everything and just replace it with what I suggested above.  Of course everyone's entitled to their opinions here as long as they're on topic, even though they may be tedious and repetitive, which is why I'll continue to counter those posts with cautious positivity (but not as relentlessly, since WoTC doesn't live rent-free in my head).

D&D does, however, get a huge discount for my head space.  Can't help it, I've been playing since 1981!

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Like i said, I don't know if it's true, but someone in the industry told me that they were dropping support for D&D Essentials and that the upper management had changed (in particular a marketing head had been replaced) but that none of the talent had changed. It certainly wouldn't be uncommon for a company to gut their management and replace them if said company felt that performance expectations had not been met.

Supposedly, much of the former executive types and their replacements are from the toy industry. It very well might be untrue, but it sounded plausible to me.

Here is an article that mentions the possibility of a 5th Edition announcement. This article also corroborates a lot of what I heard about the product line: here

From WoTC's corporate site: http://www.wizards.com/Company/Press.aspx?x=wz/press/47

This is interesting as well: www.geeknative.com/17903/are-wizards-of-...

At any rate, my prediction is that they re-focus the brand toward an online approach. If the core books are what sell best, they can print those and put new material for the game largely online in the future. Publishing in general is (slowly) moving in a similar direction.

O think a move toward the online will better position the company to compete with today's gamer's attentions.

I think it would be a good move, though a difficult one. Many companies are feeling the growing (or perhaps mutation) pains of moving toward a larger online presence.

We'll see what happens. 



A 5th edition announcement is the authors pure conjecture. Nothing in the quoted parts from wotc hinted to me of a 5th edition, nor anything about firing upper management.
5th edition would be a disaster for D&D right now. essentials/4.5 just came out relatively speaking.
D&D isnt Magic the Gathering where the player base is willing to rebuying the entire game everything year when a new standard set comes out. 
Like i said, I don't know if it's true, but someone in the industry told me that they were dropping support for D&D Essentials and that the upper management had changed (in particular a marketing head had been replaced) but that none of the talent had changed. It certainly wouldn't be uncommon for a company to gut their management and replace them if said company felt that performance expectations had not been met.

Supposedly, much of the former executive types and their replacements are from the toy industry. It very well might be untrue, but it sounded plausible to me.

Here is an article that mentions the possibility of a 5th Edition announcement. This article also corroborates a lot of what I heard about the product line: here

From WoTC's corporate site: http://www.wizards.com/Company/Press.aspx?x=wz/press/47

This is interesting as well: www.geeknative.com/17903/are-wizards-of-...

At any rate, my prediction is that they re-focus the brand toward an online approach. If the core books are what sell best, they can print those and put new material for the game largely online in the future. Publishing in general is (slowly) moving in a similar direction.

O think a move toward the online will better position the company to compete with today's gamer's attentions.

I think it would be a good move, though a difficult one. Many companies are feeling the growing (or perhaps mutation) pains of moving toward a larger online presence.

We'll see what happens. 



A 5th edition announcement is the authors pure conjecture. Nothing in the quoted parts from wotc hinted to me of a 5th edition, nor anything about firing upper management.
5th edition would be a disaster for D&D right now. essentials/4.5 just came out relatively speaking.
D&D isnt Magic the Gathering where the player base is willing to rebuying the entire game everything year when a new standard set comes out. 




The biggest issue I feel for doing a 5th edition is that what new system can they come up with, while still retaining the base ideas of DnD (Like ability scores, and bonus) that is going to be unique enough. Part of 4E was to reduce the complexity of 3.5, which could get pretty complex. I think they did that, and some complexity has creeped back in, simply because of volume of material, which isn't unexpected.

So, it would basically be a reboot, and rehashing of the same things. Lets start this time with Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, um...Ranger...and Druid and um...swordmage!

It would be bad. I don't think I would go for it, personally. There's enough 4E material for me to still get through that I wouldn't be interested in a 5th edition.

Yeah, your right, they'd probably do something worse, like balance by level. "At level 5 the fighter is more powerful than the wizard, at level 6 the ranger is more powerful, at level 7 the wizard is more powerful. It follows this pattern all the way forward to level 30". I've really lost any optimism I had for WotC and D&D at this point...


0.o  Where is this coming from?