I am a great magician; your clothes are red! ~ILLUSIONS

   With all of the fun illusion stuff in the JATM, what convincing aspects of illusion can we employ? What about having an active Illusion apply an additional stimulus when you target an enemy with a Force Power?


1)
   Assuming an active Illusion can constantly change, “altering its form and complexity”, as a free action. Or do you think massive changes should subtract from your combat turn actions (Standard, Move, Swift) ?


2)
   Also, what are some fun applications of combining Illusions with Force Powers?

PEACH

The Force Power, Force Whirlwind:
    The target sees cracks appear in the floor around the Illusionist’s feet. Suddenly the cracks are rushing towards the target and the floor splinters away to a deep shaft that seems to go on forever. They feel their feet come off the ground (as whirlwind is activated) and are overwhelmed with a sense of free fall. The endless hollow shaft straight down is dimly lit with an orange glow that could be magma from the planets crust dripping down around them and providing the only dim light other than the glowing destination. Winds and debris pelt the target in a terrifying onslaught as they tumble in the air experiencing helplessness in the grips of gravity.
     Secondary Targets: Witness outside of the falling tunnel will say they saw a pillar of smoke venting from the floor to an exhaust tube in the ceiling. A minimal alteration from what is actually going on in the center of the Illusion.


 


The Force Power, Slow:
    Causing a creature to feel the pressing weight of encumbrance may be employed with an illusion in several ways. 
    Using an existing pattern on the floor (or just a 3x3 square centered on the target), walls rise up to enclose the subject in what looks like an elevator. The elevator begins to rise straight up at an incredible rate (slow is activated here), with other building and structural fixtures zipping past the windows in a nauseating blur- confusing the target into believing he has just launched up hundreds of meters on a mysterious elevator with no controls 
    Secondary Targets: The outside of the (stationary) elevator car may also look like the elevator rising. Or it could look like something else that cause the primary target’s allies to believe he has vanished. It may look like a garden, or it could look like their ally is dead on the ground in the square he is actually in.


   A complicated what if; to have different illusion in overlapping planes. A small still one inside of a different larger one that has vivid movement happening.

But its fun...you try one!


What about the Illusion Bond talent’s range and limitations:


I create an Illusion (mirror image of myself) and intend on having it scout out a cantina for me. How should this work? Well, lets run through a possible scenario…



3
   I have it walk up to the cantina entrance. Do the doors open for it, or should he wait for another patron to enter or leave?
(I guess it may depend if the GM thinks the doors are opened by motion sensors or pressure plates in front of the doors, right?)


4
   Standing at the door, and having it not open… can he walk through the wall like a ghost? The Illusion Bond does hear and see for you


5
   Once our doppelganger makes it into the establishment, he is checking the place out and recognizes a person you know (or more importantly, would recognize you). You had created the Illusion to morror your own appearance, but now you want to change it… can you? Can you just say…
Player: “my doppelganger is going to change his appearance”.
GM: How?
Player: “Uummm, I am going to slowly change my facial expression until it merges from me… to a human the same size and build, but with the face of Harvey Kietel”
GM: No, Harvey is too cool. How about an ugly human like (QT) Quentin Terrintino?
Player: “Sure, as long as it isn’t me. I don’t want Obi Wan-a Doobie to recognize me”



6
   So the QT Illusion near-doppelganger gets someone who walks up and wants an autograph because now he is recognized as QT. Can you use Mind trick through your Illusion to wave them away? What if you have the Telepathic Link talent, can you now?


7
   After a minute a fight breaks out. Youi decide to use your illusion QT to go the aid of the underdog. You want to use Move Object to smash the guy into his adjacent buddy. Your Illusion is 5 squares from the Target and has line of sight. You are actually outside on a park bench 20 squares away. Is activating Move Object under these circumstances in compliance with the rules?


So... What do you think?

Before I read the thread, I approve of the Kung Pow reference. Laughing
1)
   Assuming an active Illusion can constantly change, “altering its form and complexity”, as a free action. Or do you think massive changes should subtract from your combat turn actions (Standard, Move, Swift) ?

Significant changes should, at the least, require another Standard Action, if not a whole new Illusion.  For example, if you create the illusion of a starship about to crash into a stadium full of people, then part of the illusion is the moving ship crashing down.  If you later decide to change it so that another starshpi appears and destroys the first, that's essentially a whole new illusion.  I'd split the difference though, a new Standard Action and another roll, but not another Force Point.

2)
   Also, what are some fun applications of combining Illusions with Force Powers?

One really simple one is to use an illusion to make it appear as though a Force Power you use against the target is actually coming from a different character.  In a game once, we had the following situation:

Actually, it was a fairly convoluted situation, so just assume that most of these actions made sense to the actors, please.  It would take a long time to explain.  A Jedi, one with fairly questionable methods, needed a particular Dark Force user to look really bad for a third party.  The Dark sider wasn't being terribly compliant though, and while not looking good, wasn't giving the third party a good reason to kill him.  The Jedi crafted an illusion of the Dark sider using Mind Trick on some poor kid to get him to shoot his sister (really convoluted, but this did make sense in-character), but it was actually the Jedi himself who used Mind Trick.  So the kid tried to shoot his sister (the weapon was inoperable), and the third party was treated to the sight of this Dark sider forcing one character to shoot another with Mind Trick.  

Obviously there are some legal issues with the above, but it falls into that niche where it was simply too cool not to allow, while not to being so overpowered it had to be disallowed anyway.

Another one would be to use Drain Energy to drain an opponents weapon, but then create an illusion of the weapon working perfectly fine.  Imagine the guys confusion.   

3
   I have it walk up to the cantina entrance. Do the doors open for it, or should he wait for another patron to enter or leave?
(I guess it may depend if the GM thinks the doors are opened by motion sensors or pressure plates in front of the doors, right?)
  No, they wouldn't open.  Illusion is a mind-affecting effect, so anything that is immune to mind-affecting effects, like a sensor, wouldn't be able to detect it at all.  Your illusion isn't really giving off waves of light that others see, it is actually an elements of targetting their mind directly.  A door sensor wouldn't have a mind to touch, and so it would never detect an illusion.  

4
   Standing at the door, and having it not open… can he walk through the wall like a ghost? The Illusion Bond does hear and see for you

The rule says that any physical interaction with the illusion dispels it.  It isn't exactly clear if something like walking through a wall would mess it up or not.  The problem is that shooting it with an inanimate blast bolt does dispel the illusion, so I'd think other physical interaction like walking through a wall, would also dispel it.  If you rule that it doesn't, then walking through a door wouldn't be a problem.

5
   Once our doppelganger makes it into the establishment, he is checking the place out and recognizes a person you know (or more importantly, would recognize you). You had created the Illusion to morror your own appearance, but now you want to change it… can you?

This goes back to the first question.  I'd say that normally you cannot just change your illusion on the fly.  As I read it, creating an illusion is like painting a portrait and then showing it off in a gallery.  You can't really hop in during the show to make major changes or adapt to what the visitors like.  

6
   So the QT Illusion near-doppelganger gets someone who walks up and wants an autograph because now he is recognized as QT. Can you use Mind trick through your Illusion to wave them away? What if you have the Telepathic Link talent, can you now?

No, and Telepathic Link would have no effect.  Your Illusion is not a separate ally, or even a character.  At the most basic level, your illusion is not a character and so wouldn't have Force Sensitivity.

7
   After a minute a fight breaks out. Youi decide to use your illusion QT to go the aid of the underdog. You want to use Move Object to smash the guy into his adjacent buddy. Your Illusion is 5 squares from the Target and has line of sight. You are actually outside on a park bench 20 squares away. Is activating Move Object under these circumstances in compliance with the rules?

No, not at all.  You're wanting to treat this illusion like a remote, ghost-version of yourself.  That isn't want illusion, even with Bond, does.  Even the heart of your scenario, creating an illusion to scout out a cantina, wouldn't work.  You can't make an illusionary you and then drive it around.

What you really want is the Telepath Prestige Class from the RCR's Ultimate Alien Anthology, but even that isn't as powerful as what you're wanting to do. 
"And the TL;DR award goes to Raul Torin!" - CorranHornIsAwesome Official SAGA Edition Errata Dawn of Defiance Other Articles Thanks to GreySword for compiling these
Necro!


@the thread title...After all, trick is something a w**** does for money...( )...Or candy!

Too good a chance to pass up...Anyway, dhas anyone tried combining other powers with Illusion?
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)

I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?



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I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?





 
If Illusions can speak at all, I don't see why not.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs

I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?





 
If Illusions can speak at all, I don't see why not.




But you've got to make the *ckckckckckckck kuuuuu* noises convincingly.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)

I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?





 
If Illusions can speak at all, I don't see why not.




But you've got to make the *ckckckckckckck kuuuuu* noises convincingly.



oh absolutely.  Failure to do so should result in alerting the actual Darth Vader of this impersonation, and having him arrive to personally investigate.

192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs

I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?





 
If Illusions can speak at all, I don't see why not.




But you've got to make the *ckckckckckckck kuuuuu* noises convincingly.



oh absolutely.  Failure to do so should result in alerting the actual Darth Vader of this impersonation, and having him arrive to personally investigate.




Or, if he's busy atm, he might just send his trusty Death Star to annihilate the impudent fools.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I never really liked the fact that the Death Star could use hyperdrive...I'm not too keen on moons moving at lightspeed
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
I never really liked the fact that the Death Star could use hyperdrive...I'm not too keen on moons moving at lightspeed





Just pretend someone poured Red bull down it's interior reactor shaft.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
So that's the fuel they use for a Planet-Destroying Super Laser!
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
So that's the fuel they use for a Planet-Destroying Super Laser!




You know what they say: "Red Bull Gives You The Ability To Annihilate Entire Planets But This Capability Is Ultimately Insignificant When Compared To The Power Of The Force."
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Maybe what caused the Emperor's deformed face was the fact that for his 90 year life time he lived off of nothing but Red Bull and Doritos
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
Maybe what caused the Emperor's deformed face was the fact that for his 90 year life time he lived off of nothing but Red Bull and Doritos




But he didn't have Wings or Pits.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
yeah, but if you played Battlefront 2, he could fly.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?

The Illusion does include making noise, like speaking.  So yes, illusionary Vader could speak.  Doing anything with that, as in, anything that would normally require a check of the social nature, would require a check.
"And the TL;DR award goes to Raul Torin!" - CorranHornIsAwesome Official SAGA Edition Errata Dawn of Defiance Other Articles Thanks to GreySword for compiling these
yeah, but if you played Battlefront 2, he could fly.




Touche.

(And I did, BFII was awesome).
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I never really liked the fact that the Death Star could use hyperdrive...I'm not too keen on moons moving at lightspeed





Just pretend someone poured Red bull down it's interior reactor shaft.

I prefer Liquid Shwartz.



I've always wondered: If you use Illusion to create an illusion of Darth Vader, can you you make him speak also? Or would that require some additional check, like a Deception check or something?

The Illusion does include making noise, like speaking.  So yes, illusionary Vader could speak.  Doing anything with that, as in, anything that would normally require a check of the social nature, would require a check.

Ok, but the talent description doesn't mention anything about allowing the illusion to speak. That's why I always wondered about that.

Let's say I'm surrounded by Stormtroopers. I create an illusion of Darth Vader to enter the room. I succeed my UtF vs. Stormtrooper's Will check. They believe the illusion to be real. If I made my illusionary Darth Vader order the Stormtroopers out of the room, would I need to make a Persuasion check? or a Deception check? Or would I need to make any check at all, seeing as how the Stormtroopers will unconditionally follow Darth Vader's orders?


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The Illusion does make sound, it is not silent.  So if it makes sense for the illusion to speak, then it does need to speak.  And I would definitely call for a Deception check if you were using that illusion of Vader.  It is, after all, a Deception.  You just have a really good disguise.
"And the TL;DR award goes to Raul Torin!" - CorranHornIsAwesome Official SAGA Edition Errata Dawn of Defiance Other Articles Thanks to GreySword for compiling these
The Illusion does make sound, it is not silent.  So if it makes sense for the illusion to speak, then it does need to speak.  And I would definitely call for a Deception check if you were using that illusion of Vader.  It is, after all, a Deception.  You just have a really good disguise.


But I already succeeded my UtF check vs. the Stormtroopers' Will Defense. They already believe the illusion to be real. Why do I need to make an additional Deception check?


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Just a comment about the headline: I don't  think you can turn someones clothes all red, at least not while they are being worn. As wearing the illusion would constitute a physical interaction, that would break the illusion.

20801.jpg

Just a comment about the headline: I don't  think you can turn someones clothes all red, at least not while they are being worn. As wearing the illusion would constitute a physical interaction, that would break the illusion.

The thread's title is a reference to the movie Kung Pow, Enter the Fist. I don't think it was meant as an actual application of the Illusion power.


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I prefer Liquid Shwartz.



"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)