Holy Prostration, Stunning Yourself for Fun and Profit

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Cleric|Paladin/Hell's Keeper/Ceaseless Guardian



One who bears the pain of the world, Divine Prostration is designed as a fifth man character who enables allies to throw off any condition that a save can end, in exchange for spending his time between turns stunned.


The Build

Level 30
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 30
Tiefling, Cleric|Paladin, Hell's Keeper, Ceaseless Guardian
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Guardian Mindfulness: Guardian Mindfulness Charisma

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 18, Dex 12, Int 12, Wis 24, Cha 26.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 15.


AC: 47 Fort: 45 Reflex: 42 Will: 51
HP: 176 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 44

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +28, Insight +27, Heal +27

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +12, Arcana +16, Bluff +25, Diplomacy +23, Dungeoneering +22, Endurance +15, History +16, Nature +22, Perception +22, Religion +16, Stealth +14, Streetwise +23, Thievery +12, Athletics +11

FEATS
Level 1: Imperious Majesty
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Resilient Focus (retrained to Versatile Expertise at Level 12)
Level 6: Courageous Example
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 10: Improved Defenses (retrained to Hero's Poise at Level 11)
Level 11: Dispater's Iron Discipline
Level 12: Pacifist Healer
Level 14: Uncanny Dodge
Level 16: Improved Defenses
Level 18: Assured Healing
Level 20: Forceful Challenge
Level 21: Epic Fortitude
Level 22: Epic Reflexes
Level 24: Weakening Challenge
Level 26: Supreme Healer
Level 28: Icon of Hope
Level 30: Epic Will

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Astral Seal
Hybrid at-will 1: Virtuous Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Bane
Hybrid daily 1: Astral Condemnation
Hybrid utility 2: Touch of Grace
Hybrid encounter 3: Mocking Smite
Hybrid daily 5: Name of Might
Hybrid utility 6: Bastion of Health
Hybrid encounter 7: Resurgent Smite
Hybrid daily 9: Blade Barrier
Hybrid utility 10: Word of Vigor
Hybrid encounter 13: Mantle of Glory (replaces Cause Fear)
Hybrid daily 15: Tree of Creation (replaces Astral Condemnation)
Hybrid utility 16: Liberation
Hybrid encounter 17: Sever the Source (replaces Mocking Smite)
Hybrid daily 19: Name of Potency (replaces Name of Might)
Hybrid utility 22: Return to the Living
Hybrid encounter 23: Demand Respect (replaces Resurgent Smite)
Hybrid daily 25: Discipline the Unruly (replaces Name of Potency)
Hybrid encounter 27: Light of the First Dawn (replaces Sever the Source)
Hybrid daily 29: Name of Awe (replaces Blade Barrier)

ITEMS
Torc of Fortune +6, Shield of the Barrier Sentinels Heavy Shield (epic tier), Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Bradaman's Longsword +6, Symbol of the Champion's Code +6, Righteous Godplate Armor +6, Belt of Vim (epic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (epic tier)
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Note: This build is an experiment. I've never quite done something like this, but I think it has the potential to be quite cool.


Tiefling for the feats is mandatory. This build cannot operate without access to Dispater's Iron Discipline. Similarly, Cleric and Paladin are also mandatory, although one could probably make a build that operates via multiclassing- what really matters is feat access.

The Basics


This build operates by utilizing the feat 'Superior Will' in conjunction with the feats 'Pacifist Healer' and 'Hero's Poise'. Making an attack against an enemy and dealing damage, Divine Prostration stuns himself at the end of his turn, makes a saving throw against the stun at the start of his turn (and succeeds) and grants his allies a significant bonus to saving throws against conditions a save can end. He then continues his turn as normal.

This build's primary focus, granting allies bonuses to saving throws, comes into effect at level 12- before then, it functions as a hybrid paladin|cleric and can spend its time being fairly effective as a controller of sorts, handing out debuffs as if they were candy and letting the heavy hitters do the heavy hitting.

At 12, the build begins to operate, succeeding on saving throws against the stun condition 95% of the time, and granting the next ally within 5 squares that makes a saving throw an automatic success, and each ally thereafter in 5 squares a +5 bonus to their saving throws until the end of your next turn, +7 versus effects that daze, stun, immobilize, or restrain.

At 30, the build automatically succeeds on saving throws vs Stun, lets the next ally in 5 to make a saving throw automatically succeeds (gaining a +12 bonus to the save), and each ally thereafter a +8 bonus to saving throws, +9 if they're bloodied, +10 if they're making a save against daze, stun, immobilize, or restrain, and +11 if they're making a save against daze, stun, imobilize, or restrain, and are also bloodied.



Ah, but what if your enemies aren't laying the status conditions on your party as if they were candy? Well, there's two possibilities: One, something has gone horribly horribly wrong in epic tier, and you've endered a strange alternate universe of magical butterflies, unicorn ponies, and pretty flowers made of bacon. The alternative is to not give a damn, and continue to lay out the debuffs, mark enemies as normal, and punish them as a solid leader|defender can. Weakening challenge and forceful challenge ensure that your enemies will make the intelligent choice and attack you instead of your allies- and hey, if they don't, everyone wins regardless. Moreover, you have a potent host of dailies and other powers that let you lay on debuffs so that allies think twice about hurting your allies.


Oh, so I hear you asking about defenses? Granting combat advantage all the time can't possibly be healthy. And to a degree you're right, but that's where a few items and feats come in, in particular Torc of Fortune, which lets you shift 2 when you succeed on a save on your turn; Shield of the Barrier Sentinels, which gives you a +1/2/3 bonus to AC and Reflex when you are flanked; Boots of the Fencing Master, which grants a +1 to AC and Reflex when you shift, and the feat 'Uncanny Dodge', which means that when you grant combat advantage, enemies do not gain the +2 to attack rolls against you.

These items and feat engender the specific movement of starting your turn, succeeding against your daze, shifting 2 into flank, and gaining a +4 bonus to AC and Reflex on top of your current defenses.


There's more to this build than I can write about in a single sitting, like interesting action point functionality, or cool items I haven't purchased yet, but the core essential of this build is laid bare for all to see. If you have any suggestions or ideas for improving it, I'm open to hearing them.

In the meanwhile, stay classy Charop!

Oh Content, where art thou?
So yeah. Reserved for future variations.
Oh Content, where art thou?
This is a very interesting build, to be sure. The ability to help allies shake conditions off this easily is (as you mentioned) absolute gold in Epic, and I'm liking the defensive measures that you put in there to deal with the consequences that you are subject to. Good stuff.
I love builds like this. Taking a mechanic, and turning it on it's head.

As fun as it is to shift into flanking for more defense, I don't think it'll work that well. You don't have any way of positioning them, or any way to keep them from un-flanking, or even an OA. Granted it's only 1 item, but it's far from dependable.

Also consider revenant for a possible variant.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Ya what they said, outside the box builds like this really get my blood pumping.  Kudos mate.
Good idea.  A few notes.

You're right: this build can easily be done as a Paladin multiclass simply by swapping out Hybrid Talent for Initiate of the Faith.  You lose a lot of healing but gain a lot of stickiness, and I'm pretty okay with that tradeoff.  (But then, I'm not too fond of cross-role hybrids; YMMV.)  You could also do the reverse (Cleric MC Paladin) but you don't get heavy armor that way and I'm not sure how good of an idea that is.

This build can only do its thing while targets are bloodied... but it gets heavy blades.  A Flensing Longsword might not be a bad idea, especially if you've got an Artificer lying around.

Hell's Keeper does give you the save bonus, and it's definitely got stickiness -- but are you sure it's the best option here?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
I like it.

This is my kind of build.
Wouldn't you be unable to enforce your mark?

Hybrid paladins deal their mark damage as an immediate action, which can't be taken while stunned.

Not a huge problem, and it doesn't effect the overall goal of the build, but just a note.
Well.. I doubt you're going to end up doing the stun every round, and there's always the -2... so the mark gives you an option for stuff to dowhen your save-granting isn't needed.
Wouldn't you be unable to enforce your mark?

Hybrid paladins deal their mark damage as an immediate action, which can't be taken while stunned.

Not a huge problem, and it doesn't effect the overall goal of the build, but just a note.



Current errata=

Until the mark ends, the target takes radiant damage
the first time each round when it targets any of your
allies with an attack power that doesn’t include you as a
target. The damage equals 3 + your Charisma modifier


No actions required.
Wouldn't you be unable to enforce your mark?

Hybrid paladins deal their mark damage as an immediate action, which can't be taken while stunned.

Not a huge problem, and it doesn't effect the overall goal of the build, but just a note.



Current errata=

Until the mark ends, the target takes radiant damage
the first time each round when it targets any of your
allies with an attack power that doesn’t include you as a
target. The damage equals 3 + your Charisma modifier


No actions required.



I know the paladin's mark was changed, but I didn't think the changes effected the hybrids' modifications to it.  I would think the "Divine Challenge (hybrd)" power would need specific errata to make that change.

I'm out of town though, and don't have my books or normal PC with me, so I'm just going by memory here.  If you are correct, a Paladin|Another-Defender would often be a signifigantly superior choice, able to double-enforce a mark.

Oh, and how annoying is it that they don't include their "In a later book" errata with their "released between books" errata in the "Rules Updates" section?  Make's it very annoying to find what one is looking for.
Wouldn't you be unable to enforce your mark?

Hybrid paladins deal their mark damage as an immediate action, which can't be taken while stunned.

Not a huge problem, and it doesn't effect the overall goal of the build, but just a note.



Ceaseless Guardian 24th Level ED feature:

Irrepressible Defense:  You can take immediate actions and opportunity actions even when you are dazed or stunned.
The hybrid paladin's mark was also eratta'd.  It is pretty much the same, word for word, as the eratta'd paladin mark, save for the lower damage.


Yes, the paladin/other defender mark can be pretty powerful, but even then , it is not a no-brainer.  for example, swordmage aegis can not stack with divine challenge, but you can put one on one target and one on another.  Fighter Combat Challenge, and Battlemind Blurred step can trigger off the mark inherent to Divine Challenge.  And so on and so forth.  Depending on what you want to do, different defender/defender options can be better or worse at certain things.

In addition to what others have said about your fun and clever build, I wanted to call out this line as something I especially appreciated:

One, something has gone horribly horribly wrong in epic tier, and you've entered a strange alternate universe of magical butterflies, unicorn ponies, and pretty flowers made of bacon.

The hybrid paladin's mark was also eratta'd.  It is pretty much the same, word for word, as the eratta'd paladin mark, save for the lower damage.



I didn't see this in either the PHB3 errata nor in the Essentials Changes 2 document.  Where is this found?
It is in the essentials chages 2 document, 2nd page, 2nd entry in the right hand column.

I suppose I was misleading when I said that is 'was the same word for word' as the errata reads basically "you gain the divine chalange power.  It functions exactly the same, except the damage is what ever the damage is" so the errata's words are quite different, the power effects however, are exactly the same sans the damage difference.

The CB is up to date with this cahange.  The compendium is not.  Way to go wizards.
What if you don't manage to stun yourself on your turn?
I really love this build. Finally a Pacifist build that doesn't focus on mega-healing and actually uses the punishment as a nice mechanic.

I heard someone above mention that this could be fairly well with a Cleric MC Paladin. What would the drawbacks of this be against the hybrid build? 
Heroic Dungeon Master
Finally a pacifist build that doesn't make me want to go evil and attack my allies.

I find this a really really cool pacifist build and I might even try it out some time.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
What if you don't manage to stun yourself on your turn?

This is actually a flaw of the build.

You have to damage a bloody enemy to get stunned, you generally won't be able to do that on turn 1 or turn 2, which is when all the effects happen. 

However, you still generate saves for anything the enemy puts on you, and you're likely to get attacked plenty, so it's still a strong defensive build, and an awsome idea.

Which also brings me to a suggestion, why Astral Seal?  It doesn't do damage and won't stun you.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Cloak of the Cautious (level 9+) can let you stun yourself.

Unfortunately it's a Daily power, but with a lenient DM you could own a lot of the level 9 versions and swap them every encounter.
What if you don't manage to stun yourself on your turn?

This is actually a flaw of the build.

You have to damage a bloody enemy to get stunned, you generally won't be able to do that on turn 1 or turn 2, which is when all the effects happen. 




Maybe a flensing weapon would help. It's only a daily, but the target is considered bloodied until save ends, regardless of hit points. Good for solos and elites. Also, there's no need for Bradaman's weapon if you're going to carry around a holy symbol anyway, so a weapon switch is definitely worth considering.
(edited quote for estetic reason)

AC:       47 (51) (situational defenses: without encounter or daily)
Fort:     45
Reflex:  42 (46)
Will:      51
HP: 176 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 44

The Basics

5 feats:
superior will + pacifist healer + hero´s poise
+corageous example +Dispater's Iron Discipline

At 30, the build automatically succeeds on saving throws vs Stun, lets the next ally in 5 to make a saving throw automatically succeeds (gaining a +12 bonus to the save), and each ally thereafter a +8 bonus to saving throws, +9 if they're bloodied, +10 if they're making a save against daze, stun, immobilize, or restrain, and +11 if they're making a save against daze, stun, imobilize, or restrain, and are also bloodied.



I have a similar build (but paladin/warlock)
How would it be if you took saving grace and starfire womb (+MC-warlock to qualify)?

I know you are probably feat-starved like me but I must tip you to check out that combo:
starfire womb + saving grace.
I promise you, its amazing saving-power!
Is there another way beyond being a Tiefling to ensure a healthy saving throw (+6 bonus or higher) versus stun?