Alien Doppelganger and their Alpha Mutations

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Doppelganger's Two Possibilities allows you to draw two cards and choose one of them.

Alien's Not of this World allows the DM to draw two cards for you and choose for you which one you get.

How would you resolve an Alien Doppelganger getting his or her Alpha Mutations. I have some solutions.

1) Interpret the "draw 2 cards" as "draw 1 extra card" and have the DM choose which deck the player draws and chooses from: the player's deck or the DM's deck. The player chooses 1 Alpha mutation from 3 cards drawn from that deck.

2) As above, but the DM chooses from 3 cards from the player's deck two cards that the player chooses from.

3) As above, but the player chooses from 3 cards from his or her deck 2 cards that the DM will choose from.

4) The player always only draws 2 cards, but the DM randomly determines whose turn it is to choose: the DM or the player.

Your thoughts? Alternate ideas?

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

I'd interperet it as follows;

Player draws two cards, chooses one, and puts the other on th bottom of the deck. Then he does it again. Out of the two he ends up with, the GM chooses one for him to keep.

So, four cards total drawn, but only one kept.
astralArchivist.com - 4e D&D house rules, homebrew, and story hours - now featuring ENWorld's Zeitgeist adventure path! Will Thibault is a winged, feathered serpent rarely found anywhere except in warm, jungle-like regions or flying through the ether. Due to his intelligence and powers he is regarded with awe by the inhabitants of his homelands and is considered to be divine.

How about this method:

(1) Draw two cards and have the DM pick one.

(2) Draw two more cards and have the DM pick one.

(3) Then have the player pick between the two cards that the DM picked.


Or alternatively:

(1) Draw two cards and have the player pick one.

(2) Draw two more cards and have the player pick one.

(3) Then have the DM pick between the two cards that the player picked.


Maybe you can use Method 1 if Alien is your primary origin and Method 2 if Doppelganger is your primary origin (or vice versa).





To make it easy for me, I would go with the primary origin as the default, when two origins conflict.  So if the alien is primary origin, then the Dm chooses, if doppleganger is the primary origin, then the player chooses which card to keep.  As such situations arise and there is a conflict between both origins of a PC, then I would default to the primary origin.
According to p.34 if two traits conflict, primary wins.  For fun, I would let the player choose 1 of 2, and thevdm choose 1 of two, then roll dice, 1-4 prmary origin choice, 5-6, secondary origin choice.
Choose three cards and pick the one you want.

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To make it easy for me, I would go with the primary origin as the default, when two origins conflict.  So if the alien is primary origin, then the Dm chooses, if doppleganger is the primary origin, then the player chooses which card to keep.  As such situations arise and there is a conflict between both origins of a PC, then I would default to the primary origin.




This. The base rules even say that when two origin features contradict, use the primary origin's feature and drop the other one. These two features pretty clearly contradict, since theres no real way to stack them, except maybe the more powerful version of drawing 2 sets of 2 cards . . . but even in that case, who gets to pick first, you or the DM? No way of telling but DM ruling.

The only 'real' way of stacking them that makes things clear as I can see, is if both origins say "When you would draw and Alpha Mutation" (I dont know the exact wording on Alien). . .but you could put emphasis on that, and say Doppleganger is drawing two cards . . each of which the DM draws for, and picks one for each pair. Which the player then gets to choose between. Or vice versa for DM/Player, but the group would have to decide between them.

Honestly, if forced to choose between a method, I would choose the one that has the DM draw 2 sets for you, and you get to pick between the two the DM chose, simply because then you dont end up with a DM who screws you over all the time by picking the worst choice. (Of course, thats bad DMing, but its not like no DM ever did something like that).
By the rules, primary origin totally supersedes secondary in the case of a conflict.  But that seems kind of unfair if you are an Alien Doppelganger.  So I'd do it like this:

Draw 3 cards.   The player and GM eliminate cards in reverse order of the origins.  So,
Alien Doppelganger:   The player eliminates a card and then the GM eliminates a card.
Doppelganger Alien:  The GM eliminates a card, then the player picks a card.
Whichever card is left is the one the player gets.

This should be slightly faster than drawing 4 cards, and by doing things in reverse order of origins, the Doppelganger Alien is still slightly more powerful than the Alien Doppelganger.

 -- 77IM

My simple solution: Since the impacts of these cards are basically opposite, the two just cancel out and normal card rules are used for this combo.  The player doesn't get the benefit of the Doppelganger trait but also doesn't get the downside of the Alien trait.
I'm considering houseruling both to read as follows;

Whenever you draw an Alpha Mutation card, draw an additional card from the same deck and choose which one to keep. Put any others on the bottom of the deck.
astralArchivist.com - 4e D&D house rules, homebrew, and story hours - now featuring ENWorld's Zeitgeist adventure path! Will Thibault is a winged, feathered serpent rarely found anywhere except in warm, jungle-like regions or flying through the ether. Due to his intelligence and powers he is regarded with awe by the inhabitants of his homelands and is considered to be divine.
This is not RAW in any way, but in keeping with Gamma World's randomness, one could consider this method:

Whenever the Alien/Doppelganger (or Doppelganger/Alien) draws an Alpha, the player draws two cards and rolls a d20. If the roll is less than 10, the GM chooses which Alpha is kept; if the roll is 10 or more, the player gets to choose.

I think this is how I'd run it, for two reasons. First, because it's one rule to cover both situations. Second, because it mimics other, pre-existing mechanics, which means less rules to keep track of.
Encounters DM, Season 4 & Season 5 - Amorous Armadillo Game Shoppe - Oviedo, FL

That's pretty good as a house rule ChaoticGood. It's like the player makes a save and if they pass the get to use their power normally (the Doppelganger power) if not they suffer the Alien drawback.
It's been said but, I think this is covered in RAW. 
One point though maybe everyone is missing: is the Alien Not of this World really a drawback? I mean I'm a GM. I'm not gonna just stiff a player outta of good card( at least not everytime)! I already get to beat them up with mutants, monsters and aliens. Why cheat them too?  

Thanks, that's what I was going for.

I mean I'm a GM. I'm not gonna just stiff a player outta of good card( at least not everytime)! I already get to beat them up with mutants, monsters and aliens. Why cheat them too?  



Haha, you don't play with my GM... He takes GW's ease of character creation as an excuse to make everything more deadly. Laughing
Encounters DM, Season 4 & Season 5 - Amorous Armadillo Game Shoppe - Oviedo, FL
Thanks, that's what I was going for.

I mean I'm a GM. I'm not gonna just stiff a player outta of good card( at least not everytime)! I already get to beat them up with mutants, monsters and aliens. Why cheat them too?  



Haha, you don't play with my GM... He takes GW's ease of character creation as an excuse to make everything more deadly.



That's pretty much the right mindset. Character creation is so easy, that you can die one encounter, and have another character walk up at the end of the encounter and be like "Hey guys, I was watching you from over that hill there, and saw one of your guys go down. Need some help with whatever you're doing?"
Lol yeah, thats pretty much how my group feels about it.
Wow. Y'all play rough. I mean I don't cut my players any slack, two of'em died last game, but I'm nice about it.
 "To bad you lost your character Dustin! You were playing him well too. Roll up another one buddy and I work you back into the game. Have some of my chips and dip while your at it!" 
That's the way I roll.
Wow. Y'all play rough. I mean I don't cut my players any slack, two of'em died last game, but I'm nice about it.
 "To bad you lost your character Dustin! You were playing him well too. Roll up another one buddy and I work you back into the game. Have some of my chips and dip while your at it!" 
That's the way I roll.



Oh, you can certainly be nice about it! But Gamma World pretty much expects that by the time the adventure is over, a completely different batch of characters will be coming back to the NPCs that sent them on the mission.

And that wouldn't be unusual to them.
Well we started with 4 party members and 1 joined up later. In the last encounter of "Iron King" 2 members died. The Iron King has that awesome Grenade Launcher. It was blowing the party away! Then his Cybernetic helmet could use the factory arm as a minor actionSurprised( so unfair, but i used the crap outta it anyway).
Not to meantion the Hoops hopping and hacking and the robots blasting the party.... Yeah it's deadly on Gamma Terra! But that's my point. Why make things even Harder on the players. Yes they're going to die anyway. So let'em have a fun card before they go. 
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