Any ways to cheese out magic missile?

81 posts / 0 new
Last post
I had this thought of attempting to put together a half-elf Hunter multiclass into Seeker for Primal Eye who took magic missile as the dilettante, but for it to work the way I want to, it needs a damage roll, and then I became a bit more interesting in tuning up magic missile and then building around it.

I believe the swordmage paragon path Malec-Keth Janissary's level 16 feature adds a damage roll to the power, but I'm not certain, and I'd have to drop Seeker to pull it off if it did work, but...

So, my question is, what ways are there to turn magic missile into a lean, mean, death bringing machine?
Very little interacts with Magic Missile.

It doesn't hit, or miss, it doesn't have a damage roll (Malec-Keth Janissary will add 1d4 damage, but it doesn't count as the attack having a damage roll).

Inevitable Accuracy has a nice "and you don't hit", add Inevitable Volly let's you target 2.  So every missed RBA let's you shoot 2, which is nice, but by epic, it's nothing major.

If you could convice your DM that inevitable shot isn't an attack power, then it you could keep getting free MM's by missing alot...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I had this thought of attempting to put together a half-elf Hunter multiclass into Seeker for Primal Eye who took magic missile as the dilettante, but for it to work the way I want to, it needs a damage roll, and then I became a bit more interesting in tuning up magic missile and then building around it.

I believe the swordmage paragon path Malec-Keth Janissary's level 16 feature adds a damage roll to the power, but I'm not certain, and I'd have to drop Seeker to pull it off if it did work, but...

So, my question is, what ways are there to turn magic missile into a lean, mean, death bringing machine?



First of all, extra damage is not a damage roll, even though you roll damage. Counter-intuitive I know, but the term "damage roll" refers exclusively to the damage listed in the power, so there is no way to "add" a damage roll to a power.

As far as making the most out of magic missile...a staff of missile mastery is helpful. Tome of Readiness with the Improved Tome of Readiness feat can let you expend all your daily wizard spells to us Wizard's Fury every encounter, getting Magic Missile as a minor action. You are basically giving up your minor actions and daily powers to get a pseudo-striker feature....
Artificers Icebound, Corrosive, Lightning, and Hellfire Sigil's can add damage to Magic Missile.
You can take advantage of Vulnerability cheese builds by converting the force damage to Frost, Radiant, or Fire.
Whetstones also add damage to a "sucessful attack"

As was mentioned, there's no way to give it a damage roll.  This is on purpose, since Auto-Hit would be far too powerful if you could combine it with a damage roll.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Whetstones also add damage to a "sucessful attack"



Alas, Whetstones can only be applied to weapons.  Although I suppose whether a Whetstone's effect can be applied to implement powers used through a weapliment, since "an attack with this weapon" could be interpreted as either "any attack" or "a Weapon attack," would be up to DM decision.

loose [loos] vt. to let loose; to release; to unfasten, undo or untie; to shoot or discharge. lose [looz] vt. to come to be without (something in one's possession or care), through accident, theft, etc., so that there is little or no prospect of recovery; to fail inadvertently to retain (something) in such a way that it cannot be immediately recovered; to suffer the deprivation of. LEARN THE DAMN DIFFERENCE. 

Actually, An attack made with a Weapon and a Weapon Attack are two entirely different things.  Only the latter refers specifically to powers with the Weapon keyword.  An attack made with a weapon can refer to any attack that uses the weapon (implement power, monk attacks, etc). 

However, "successful attack" implies you rolled an attack and hit with it.  Magic Missile and other similar powers are not auto-hit, they are auto-damage.  So whetstones do not apply their bonuses to magic missile.  Only if an effect says "when you deal damage" or "when a target takes damage", etc, does magic missile gain the benefit.
Since we're discussing implication ...

There's powers that neither do damage (and thus wouldn't benefit from "when you deal damage with ... " effects) nor require an attack roll.  And since there are numerous effects out there that are worded "when you hit with ... " the implication of using "sucessful attack with ... " is that it works on powers that don't require an attack roll.  Magic Missile is fortunate that it both does damage, and is automatically sucessful, and that's really the key thing here.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Irrelevant.  Magic Missle has neither an Attack or Hit line.  Thus any effect that requires an attack or a hit does not apply.  "Successful Attack" still requires an attack.  It doesn't apply.
Since we're discussing implication ...

There's powers that neither do damage (and thus wouldn't benefit from "when you deal damage with ... " effects) nor require an attack roll.  And since there are numerous effects out there that are worded "when you hit with ... " the implication of using "sucessful attack with ... " is that it works on powers that don't require an attack roll.  Magic Missile is fortunate that it both does damage, and is automatically sucessful, and that's really the key thing here.



I disagree.  The power description for Magic missile has no hit text, only effect text.  There are other powers out there that have effect text that are not tied to hit text.  If one of those powers missed (did not trigger the hit text), and then the effect went off, would you still consider that a "successful attack", and trigger the other effect?
Customer serveice has stated more than once that Magic Missile is indeed an "attack".
It does not roll damage
That said, just some of the things you can do to MM:

Wand of magic missile adds a push effect
Gauntlets of the Ram increases this by 1
Admixture Thunder and add slide with Mark of Storm.

The white lotus Repost feats are wonderful for MM IMHO
Customer serveice has stated more than once that Magic Missile is indeed an "attack".
It does not roll damage
That said, just some of the things you can do to MM:

Wand of magic missile adds a push effect
Gauntlets of the Ram increases this by 1
Admixture Thunder and add slide with Mark of Storm.

The white lotus Repost feats are wonderful for MM IMHO



Customer service has stated a great many things that have since been rendered incorrect by errata, or been contradicted by another Customer Service rep.  I'd suggest checking with your DM first and getting their ruling, that is the safest bet IMO.

Customer service has stated a great many things that have since been rendered incorrect by errata, or been contradicted by another Customer Service rep.  I'd suggest checking with your DM first and getting their ruling, that is the safest bet IMO.



I did not realize this,
Please direct us to the errata that has proven them incorrect concerning Magic Missile being an attack.
Customer Service's opinion on the matter is unnecesary and irrelevant. The power itself says "Wizard Attack 1." Unless there's an errata that didn't make it into the compendium, Magic Missile is definitely an attack.

Whether that means it can trigger "successful attack" effects is debateable. I'd be inclined to say no because it opens up a ton of powers that have effect riders, and I imagine if that's what they'd meant then they would have said so.
Take a Shadar-kai and Reaper's Touch. Now you have a Melee Magic missle that counts as a MBA. Get a Vanguard weapon, horned helmet, and start doing automatic charge damage every turn. 
Stuff
Insert Stuff Here
Hey, thanks everyone, you all have been really helpful. I'm pretty certain that we can agree that magic missile is an attack, but I feel as though it can't trigger effects that require a hit or a miss since it can never do either of those, by virtue of lacking the attack roll and the hit/miss line(s) required for those actions, respectively.

The charging idea, though, does sound really fun. I think the overwhelming consensus is that currently magic missile has no way to be given a damage roll, but between admixture, reaper's touch, and a few other items, feats, and powers, it can be cheesed out a little bit, but not to broken-levels.

For now, the half-elf hunter who rapid shots with a magic missile idea has to be shelved. Ah, well.
Take a Shadar-kai and Reaper's Touch. Now you have a Melee Magic missle that counts as a MBA. Get a Vanguard weapon, horned helmet, and start doing automatic charge damage every turn. 


Reaper's Touch is always very fun.
The Smithy Knew He'd Lost His Groove When Scalding Sparks Left His Chin Too Smooth Dwarvenshave
Take a Shadar-kai and Reaper's Touch. Now you have a Melee Magic missle that counts as a MBA. Get a Vanguard weapon, horned helmet, and start doing automatic charge damage every turn. 


Reaper's Touch is always very fun.


Combine this with Sigil Carver's 16th feature, enemies auto-fail on Melee attacks against allies adjacent to you.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Well you could play a very odd Dragon Born or Shadar Kai, at level 11.  Strangely you could have avoid some parts depending on what you want out of this build, for instance you could have taken Sword Mage or Warlord instead of Fighter with a Multi-Class Fighter instead to get a more effective marking or leader base. . .

That is actually a really interesting idea for the Shadar-Kai version since your DPR will be a bit less, so focusing on passive buffs and severe punishments to specific mobs is really nice. . . 

Below is the Dragon Born version. . . 

Starting/Ending Attribute Bonuses
18/20 Strength
10/11 Dexterity
16/18 Constitution
15/18 Intelligence
8/9 Wisdom
10/11 Charisma 

Race
Dragon Born (Shadar-Kai loses 4 damage to gain using it as a basic Melee attack. . .)

Classes
Fighter (Hybrid)
Wizard (Hybrid)
Lyrandar Wind Rider (Doesn't say damage roll just damage)

Items
Master's Wand of Magic Missiles
Shield (Any)
Gauntlets of the Ram
Orb of Nimble Thoughts

Feats
Hindering Shield
Admixture Lightning or Thunder (Magic Missile)
Mark of Storm

Powers
Magic Missile
Wizard's Fury

Total Effects
-Once per day you can use Magic Missile twice per round, once as a minor action and as a standard.  

-All targets that take damage from your Magic Missile (nearly anyone)
-----Are Pushed 2 square
-----Are Slid 1 Square
-----Are Slowed
-----Take 16 Lightning/Thunder & Force damage
Draconic Arrogance should be on there, and they aren't slid at all. Mark of Storm requires a Hit.
If you wanted to give up the shield and pushing 1 square from hindering shield feat, you could grab those bracers that add damage to your MBAs. Might not be worth it though.

Get a superior implement ki focus somehow to gain more forced movement
If you wanted to give up the shield and pushing 1 square from hindering shield feat, you could grab those bracers that add damage to your MBAs. Might not be worth it though.

Get a superior implement ki focus somehow to gain more forced movement

? You can wear a non-magical shield and magical bracers. Hindering Shield causes a  slow when you use forced movement on an enemy. And the push comes from the Wand.
Zomg! Good call on Draconic Arrogance feat.

 If you are also slowing the target with MM you should take World Serpent Grasp that allows you to knock prone when you hit a target that is slowed/immobilized.
Obligatory link to The Missile Commander, with his daily nova dealing almost 2k damage, most of which is auto-hit.
Zomg! Good call on Draconic Arrogance feat.

If you are also slowing the target with MM you should take World Serpent Grasp that allows you to knock prone when you hit a target that is slowed/immobilized.

MM doesn't hit, so they won't prone.

Though an auto push-2+slow isn't bad.  You could probably win some battles by kiting that way.

Actually...

Shadar-Kai + Reapers Touch + Horned Helm = Charge
Hindering Shield + Shield (non-magic) = slow
Master's Wand of MM + Gauntlets of the ram + Ring of Ramming = Push 3 + slow...
Boot's of Adept Charging + Long Step = Shift 2 after the charge.

Now you charge, auto-hit, and end up 5 squares away from the slow'd guy.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Zomg! Good call on Draconic Arrogance feat.

If you are also slowing the target with MM you should take World Serpent Grasp that allows you to knock prone when you hit a target that is slowed/immobilized.

MM doesn't hit, so they won't prone.

Though an auto push-2+slow isn't bad.  You could probably win some battles by kiting that way.

Actually...

Shadar-Kai + Reapers Touch + Horned Helm = Charge
Hindering Shield + Shield (non-magic) = slow
Master's Wand of MM + Gauntlets of the ram + Ring of Ramming = Push 3 + slow...
Boot's of Adept Charging + Long Step = Shift 2 after the charge.

Now you charge, auto-hit, and end up 5 squares away from the slow'd guy.



Okay, I took that into mind, and it just so happens I have an 11th level lfr game that I managed to squeeze in for the 9th, so I have plenty of time to refine this build. Here's what I'm looking at so far:

Level 11 Shadar-Kai Hybrid Warlord|Wizard
Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Zahar, level 11
Shadar-kai, Warlord|Wizard, Paragon Hybrid
Hybrid Talent: Warlord Armor Proficiency
Warlord Leadership: Battlefront Leader (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlord: Hybrid Warlord Fortitude
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Commanding Presence (Hybrid)
Commanding Presence (Hybrid): Resourceful Presence (Hybrid)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 11, Dex 9, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 15.


AC: 28 Fort: 25 Reflex: 27 Will: 25
HP: 63 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +8, Diplomacy +14, Athletics +9, Streetwise +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +10, Bluff +9, Dungeoneering +4, Heal +4, History +10, Insight +4, Intimidate +9, Nature +4, Perception +4, Religion +10, Stealth +6, Thievery +4

FEATS
Level 1: Reaper's Touch
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Battle Awareness
Level 8: Powerful Charge
Level 10: Devious Jaunt (retrained to Repel Charge at Level 11)
Level 11: Hindering Shield

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Magic Missile
Hybrid at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Paragon Hybrid: Overwhelming Force Trap
Hybrid encounter 1: Vengeance is Mine
Hybrid daily 1: Wizard's Fury
Hybrid utility 2: Adaptive Stratagem
Hybrid encounter 3: Radiant Pillar
Hybrid daily 5: Scent of Victory
Hybrid utility 6: Fire Shield
Hybrid encounter 7: Powerful Warning
Hybrid daily 9: Wall of Fire
Hybrid utility 10: Instant Planning

ITEMS
Badge of the Berserker +3,  Summoned Earthhide Armor +3, Gauntlets of the Ram (heroic tier), Master's Wand of Magic Missile +1, Fighting Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Horned Helm (heroic tier),  Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


There is some fluff involved here; for example, the decision to take paragon hybrid was both in part because I like the resourceful riders on utility powers mostly because I didn't want to many any attack rolls. Keeps the math simple.

At 12th level, I intend to pick up Impetuous Charger, and at 14, Fight On.

A fun trick I noticed with repel charge, with the target slowed if you push 2 or push 1 and shift 1 away, you're probably the only target they can charge, and with repel charge, not only do they never get close enough to hit you, they stay constantly slowed.

Edit: Dropped Toughness for Powerful Charge, and managed to pick up Gauntlets of the Ram, though at cost of the Master's Wand of Magic Missile. Powerful charge helps make up for the damage, and getting/buying a new implement in LFR won't take long, so no real loss there. As this build makes no attack rolls, the loss is the 1-2 points of damage won't be missed for long, as long.
I like what you guys have come up with so far. Please post the results of the game and the DMs reaction to your build. I would love to hear it.
"I charge with Magic Missile!"

"You mean you attack with Magic Missile."

"No, I mean I use the Charge action with Magic Missile as the attack.  I'm a Shadar-kai Reaper Touching!"

".....ooo....kay....  How much damage?"

"Hang on." 

*rolls dice*

"...why are you rolling?"

"Because I get extra damage for charging."

"....."

"He's also pushed three squares, slowed, and takes my Str mod in damage again."

"Let me see your character sheet."
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
"I charge with Magic Missile!"

"You mean you attack with Magic Missile."

"No, I mean I use the Charge action with Magic Missile as the attack.  I'm a Shadar-kai Reaper Touching!"

".....ooo....kay....  How much damage?"

"Hang on." 

*rolls dice*

"...why are you rolling?"

"Because I get extra damage for charging."

"....."

"He's also pushed three squares, slowed, and takes my Str mod in damage again."

"Let me see your character sheet."



Hahahahaha!!

Could a Shadar-kai hybrid fighter|wizard use combat superiority with reaper touch to auto stop anyone moving away? It's cheese, but it (a) does minimal damage and (b) since you took combat superiority you are limited to what armor you can use. It would be 6th level before you could use scale (without a shield).
Could a Shadar-kai hybrid fighter|wizard use combat superiority with reaper touch to auto stop anyone moving away? It's cheese, but it (a) does minimal damage and (b) since you took combat superiority you are limited to what armor you can use. It would be 6th level before you could use scale (without a shield).



The wording on combat superiority seems to imply that you would need to hit, which you can't do with magic missile.
It's true that it won't hit, bit it can push and slow which can be better. Though I dont think it will mark (I think you have to hit or miss).

Nice call on repelling charge.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

If you want to take some risks with your MM, ask your DM if you can use the version printed in PH1. {wink}

The "standard RBA package" of equipment will still work (although you won't need the Eagle Eye Goggles, I suppose).  You also could ask a friend to create a LazyLord and pick YOU all the time.

Best complements I have yet received

Making it up as I go along:

{BRJN} If I was writing the Tome of Lore, I would let Auppenser sleep. But I also would have him dream. In his dreaming he re-activates the innate powers of (some) mortal minds. Or his dreaming changes the nature of reality - currently very malleable thanks to Spellplague &c. Or whatever really cool flavor text and pseudo-science explanation people react positively to.

{Lord_Karsus} You know, I like that better than the explanations for the Spellplague.

 

{BRJN} If Bhaal approves of The Joker, does he approve of Jack Nicholson's portrayal or Heath Ledger's protrayal more?

{Stigger} That question is utterly classic, and completely on target.

 

Prepped ahead of time:

I started the 4e thread "1001 Failed Interrogation Results" (now lost in that great electronic goodnight, alas)

{ADHadh} These are all good and make sense! I just can't come up with something that's not covered here and is not completely ridiculous.

 

(News bulletin: Updated thread to be posted after I review the 5e DMG)

 

My 5e characters

Active:

Erevyn Meliamne, Wood Elf Rogue1/Monk2, AL, inspired by "Radar O'Reilly" from M*A*S*H: Perception(max)

Alavos of Kirauma, Half-elf Paladin5, HotDQ, Warlord themed

Characters Ready-to-go:

none at present; gotta work on somebody from below !

Concepts I'm kicking around:

Tiefling (skillful ... Bard? Rogue?) - future business master (using 3e FRCS background material) and patron to beginning adventurers.

Barbarian w/Tough feat, to be nearly indestructible

"Truenamer" cleric - all spells are Verbal

"Buggy" Wizard - insect flavor on everything.  His DMPC / BBEG version is going to become a beetle version of a Worm That Walks.  (See the 4e Lamia.)  Because lichdom is so cliche.

 

I think someone should break down and make a guidebook for RBA/MBAs.
Ours is a world where people don't know what they want, and are willing to go through hell to get it. -Don Marquis
What feats would be important for this build?

Powerful Charge, Dual implement spellcasting?

What works for it?
Has anyone thought of having a Shadar-Kai wizard wielding a Thundergod weapon while charging with MM. The property text doesn't have "extra" in it just +2d6 when you charge. This would seem to add a damage roll to your autohitting MBA charges.

Theziner
You need the wand for the push, and a shield for slow.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Oh, i'll have to double check, but I think polearm gamble+ a quick swap familar would prevent anyone from comming adajacent.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Obligatory link to The Missile Commander, with his daily nova dealing almost 2k damage, most of which is auto-hit.


Of course, 90% of that build flat out doesn't work anymore.  Inevitable Shot is an Attack Power and thus limited by 1/turn free action (Orc Barbarians get screwed by the new "Attack" rule), Stacking Cloud of Daggers doesn't do anything, You can't have 2 Rings of Free time, and stacking vulnerabilities like that is still dubious at best (Regardless, taking out Inevitable Shot kills the build)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Obligatory link to The Missile Commander, with his daily nova dealing almost 2k damage, most of which is auto-hit.


Of course, 90% of that build flat out doesn't work anymore.  Inevitable Shot is an Attack Power and thus limited by 1/turn free action (Orc Barbarians get screwed by the new "Attack" rule), Stacking Cloud of Daggers doesn't do anything, You can't have 2 Rings of Free time, and stacking vulnerabilities like that is still dubious at best (Regardless, taking out Inevitable Shot kills the build)

Don't know why people keep making that mistake, Inevitable Shot is a Class Feature, not an attack power. It is in no way limited by the free action errata. Orcs aren't screwed either, Furious Assault is a Racial Feature and not an attack power. That build post-dates the free action errata for this very reason, he even specifically addresses it in the post.

Q: How can you use Inevitable Shot more than once per turn?  Free actions are limited now.
A: Inevitable Shot is not an attack power, it's a class feature, and the powers it allows do not require further actions.  This is the same reason Swift Charge can still work with the Rampage feature.

That whole build would still work. You'd get 1 less minor from not being allowed to own two Rings of Free Time, and that is the only problem with it off-hand by RAW (and is still a great piece of theoretical optimization for which I commend Damon_Tor).
Don't know why people keep making that mistake, Inevitable Shot is a Class Feature, not an attack power. It is in no way limited by the free action errata. Orcs aren't screwed either, Furious Assault is a Racial Feature and not an attack power. That build post-dates the free action errata for this very reason, he even specifically addresses it in the post.

But after the rules update that limited free action attacks to once per round, we got Essentials and the Rules Compendium. Now all powers are either classified as an Attack power or a Utility power, including powers granted by class features. And Inevitable Shot is now both a class feature and an Attack power, so it is subject to the limit. 
Inevitable shot itself isn't an attack. It has no target and does no damage. So you can use it as much as you want.

However, the attack it grants is your free attack for the turn. So i'm not sure why you would.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Sign In to post comments