Deck Master (Community Contest Central)

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This is the over-arching thread for all of the Deck Master Contests (the community judged deck-building contests that began with the Pauper contest).  Included here will be links to all of the contests, final rankings of each individual contest as well as over-all ranking (which adds all of your rankings for each contest together).

If you have anything that you think would go here, or any future contest criteria that you'd like to suggest, or any comments in general about the contest(s), please post them here.

CURRENT CONTEST: Bl00m Tribal

NEXT CONTEST: N/A

Previous Contests
1)
Pauper
1) Helphelpe (46.2)
2) Capitan_Esteban (33.6)
3) Tich (32.7)
4) Cathaldus (30.8)
5) CadaverousBl00m (28)
6) Minus_Prime (21)
7) Zovc (19.6)
8) ArtVenn (14)

2)
Beastmaster
1) Capitan_Estaban / Minus_Prime (48)
3) SirCurry (41.3)
4)
Helphelpe (40)
5)
Cathaldus (35.2)
6)
Tich (34.7)
7)
CadaverousBl00m (34)
8)
Elder_Kraken (26.7)
9)
ArtVenn (19.2)

3)
Keyword Tribal
1) Helphelpe (38.5)
2)
Capitan_Estaban (36.2)
3)
Minus_Prime (35)
4)
Cathaldus (30.3)
5)
 CadaverousBl00m (26.8)
6)
BrinaWolf08 (23.3)
7)
ArtVenn (16.3)
8)
Fonthiel (16)

Overall Ranking (total points / average points / # of contests entered)
1) Helphelpe (124.7 / 41.6 / 3)
2)
SirCurry (41.3 / 41.3 / 1)
3) Capitan_Esteban (117.8 / 39.3 / 3)
4)
Minus_Prime (104 / 34.7 / 3)
5) Tich (67.4 / 33.7 / 2)
6) Cathaldus (96.3 / 32.1 / 3)
7) CadaverousBl00m (88.8 / 29.6 / 3)
8) Elder_Kraken (26.7 / 26.7 / 1)
9)
BrinaWolf08 (23.3 / 23.3 / 1)
10) Zovc (19.6 / 19.6 / 1)
11) ArtVenn (49.5 / 16.5 / 3)
12)
 Fonthiel (16 / 16 / 1)


Over-Arching Contest Rules


Submission Judging



  • All deck submissions are to be judged based on their presumed performance in a multiplayer game.



  • Each participant in the contest will have one week following the deck submission deadline to rank each other participant's deck submissions (they do exclude themselves from their ranking).



  • Each submission will be awarded points equal to its inverse position in the ranking (for example, if there are eleven submissions in a contest, each player will rank the ten other participants.  The deck ranked #1 will receive ten points; #2 will receive nine points; #3 will receive eight points; #4 will receive seven points; #5 will receive six points; #6 will receive five points; #7 will receive four points; #8 will receive three points; #9 will receive two points; #10 will receive one point).



  • The point total for each participant's ranking will be added together to make an over-all ranking of deck submissions.



  • The final ranking will be the sum total of the points awarded from the "over-all ranking" and the average score awarded to them by each participant, rounded to the nearest tenth (this is to prevent artificially inflating certain participant's scores who did not submit a ranking of the other decks)



  • Any infractions to the contest rules will be governed by the overall consent of the other contest participants (which may or may not result in disqualification from the contest).

"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
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Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

I have an update about the next contest.

It will begin on Monday, January 3rd (as soon as I get the thread up).

Submissions will run until Sunday, January 9th (11:59 PM, Central Standard Time).

Rankings will be due by Sunday, January 16th (11:59 PM, Central Standard Time).
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
Who Am I?
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

Nice to see this catching on and becoming a recurring thing!
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
The newest contest is on!
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
Who Am I?
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

Today begins the discussion of next week's contest: "Keyword Tribal" (originally suggested by Zovc).

The following is what I was considering for the format restrictions:

Proposed Keyword Tribal Format Restrictions



  • Each deck chooses a non-evergreen keyword or ability word.

  • Each non-evergreen keyword or ability word that is not the chosen keyword or ability word is banned for that deck.

  • For the purposes of this format, an evergreen keyword or ability word is any keyword or ability word that has appeared in a Core Set (they are Deathtouch, Defender, Double Strike, Enchant, Equip, Fear, First Strike, Flash, Flying, Haste, Landwalk, Lifelink, Protection, Regeneration, Reach, Scry, Shroud, Trample and Vigilence.

  • At least 50% (rounded up) of all non-land cards in the deck must contain the chosen keyword or ability word.

  • Due to their overpowered nature (in general and in multiplayer), Black Lotus, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, Mox Emerald, Library of Alexandria, Channel Time Vault, Tinker and Limited Resources are banned.

  • All cards referencing Ante are banned.

  • All cards requiring physical dexterity to operate (such as Chaos Orb) are banned.

  • Due to their inability to be universally interpretted by all players, all silver-bordered cards are banned.


What does everybody think?  I'm thinking of making an over-all banned list for the entire contest series (basically everything listed above), just to remove the stupidly overpowered cards that stifle deck-building decisions from the equation entirely.  In person, I'm actually dead against banned lists; then again, in person, I don't know anybody with a playset of Blas Lotus.
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
Who Am I?
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

I like the idea and the format restrictions are good.

My only quip is the banned and restricted list. Can't we simply use the entire legacy list? I think that would be more fair than banning just a few of the overpowered cards in existence.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Why not just use the Legacy format banned list.
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
I didn't think that all of the cards on the Legacy banned list needed to be there for these contests' purpose.  However, I would be open to using them in the name of fairness and simplicity.
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
Who Am I?
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

The Legacy Banned List is a good place to start, but it doesn't take into account multiplayer, so I do not believe that it is sufficient. I used Commander(paper), and Commander(digital), because those are the only multiplayer formats that I could think of that had specific B/R lists (the exception being 2HG variant, that has only a single card Erayo, Soratami Ascendant in addition to whichever normal B/R list it is using for its format.
B/R Format Comparisions





















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































B/R List Comparisons
Format Vintage Legacy EDH Commander
Amulet of QuozXXXDP?
Bronze TabletXXXDP?
Chaos OrbXXXDP?
Contract from BelowXXXDP?
DarkpactXXXDP?
Demonic AttorneyXXXDP?
Falling StarXXXDP?
Jeweled BirdXXXDP?
RebirthXXXDP?
ShahrazadXXDP?
Tempest EfreetXXXDP?
Timmerian FiendsXXXDP?
UNGlued, UNHingedXXXX
Fruitcake ElementalXX??
Gifts GivenXX??
ProposalXX??
Other Promos?????
Ancestral RecallXXX
BalanceXXXX
Bazaar of BaghdadX
BiorhythmXX
Black LotusXXX
Black ViseX
Braids, Cabal MinionX(General)X
BrainstormX
Burning WishX
ChannelXXXX
Coalition VictoryXX
Demonic ConsultationXX
Demonic TutorXX
EarthcraftX
Emrakul, the Aeons TornX
Fact or FictionX
FastbondXXXX
FlashXX
Frantic SearchX
Gifts UngivenXXX
Goblin RecruiterX
GushX
Hermit DruidX
Imperial SealXX
KarakasXX
Kokusho, the Evening StarXX
Land TaxX
Library of AlexandriaXXXX
Limited ResourcesXX
Lion's Eye DiamondXXX
Lotus PetalX
Mana CryptXX
Mana DrainX
Mana VaultXX
Memory JarXX
Merchant ScrollX
MetalworkerX
Mind TwistX
Mind's DesireX
Mishra's WorkshopX
Mox EmeraldXXXX
Mox JetXXXX
Mox PearlXXXX
Mox RubyXXXX
Mox SapphireXXXX
Mystical TutorXX
NecropotenceXX
Oath of DruidsX
Painter's ServantXX
Panoptic MirrorXX
PonderX
Protean HulkXX
Recurring NightmareXX
RegrowthX
RiftsweeperX
Rofellos, Llanowar EmissaryX(General)
SkullclampX
Sol RingXX
Staff of DominationXX
Strip MineXX
Sway of the StarsXX
Survival of the FittestX
Thirst for KnowledgeX
Time VaultXXXX
Time WalkXXX
TimetwisterXX
TinkerXXXX
Tolarian AcademyXXXX
TrinisphereX
UpheavalXX
Vampiric TutorXX
Wheel of FortuneXX
WindfallXX
Worldgorger DragonXXX
Yawgmoth's BargainXXX
Yawgmoth's WillXX

(Note: Commander is an online only format (until the recent EDH paper format rename). I believe that some cards are not on the Commander Banned list because those cards do not have a digital printing, other cards (Riftsweeper in particular) is probably only on the list because Commander didn't properly implement the Command Zone and instead puts Generals in the Removed From Game Zone. It should also be noted that Wish card (example Burning Wish) do not function the same in a tournament setting, casual setting, or Commander/EDH game.)
The safest and most restrictive thing to do is to ban any card that appears on any banned/restricted list.
The most dangerous and least restrictive thing to do is to ban (or restrict) any card that appears on all the banned/restricted lists (or have no B/R list at all).
You could also do something in between, only banning cards that appear twice or three times on the list.
You could just choose a format, and uses its B/R list.
The last option is to look at each individual card and examine why it is on the B/R list and determine if that reason still has merit in the particular format proposal.

Each of the above options has its own merits and drawbacks.
Banning everything that appears on any of the lists, while the safest option, will probably needlessly ban cards that don't need to be banned. As an example, for the recently held Beastmaster format, Worldgorger Dragon wasn't banned even though it appeared on the Legacy banned list. Worldgorger Dragon was unbanned from the Vintage list months ago as a way to combat Tezzeret the Seeker decks that were taking infinite turns with Time Vault. It was previously banned because it could generate infinite mana with Animate Dead/Necromancy. In the Beastmaster format, noncreature/nonland cards were already banned, so it wasn't necessary to ban Worldgorger Dragon (not that anyone would have played it even if it was not banned). In the upcoming format, Keyword Tribal, it might be necessary because the other two cards that enable the combo aren't banned.

If you only ban cards that appear on all B/R lists, you get the following:As I mentioned in the Format B/R Comparison table above, I am uncertain why many of the cards on the Commander/EDH(Paper) banned list, are not banned on the Commander(digital) list. My only guess is that those cards (Ante cards mostly) don't have a digital printing. I think at a minimum, all the cards that appear on all the banned/restricted lists should be banned. All of these cards appear on ever b/r list for a reason, and the fact that they do (appear on each list) should be reason enough to give them the ban hammer.

If you only ban the cards that appear on three or more B/R lists (to make up for the fact that Commander(digital) cards may have not been counted in the previous list), you get the following:This list is nearly the same as the list above, only adding in Ante Cards and a couple of powerful card draw, mana producing, and extra turn taking spells. I don't think much is lost by banning these cards in determining how effective a multiplayer deck is. Everyone knows that Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Time Walk are good cards, and if you could play 4x copies of it, you probably would. The same could probably be said (to a lesser extent) about Gifts Ungiven, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Yawgmoth's Bargain except for the fact that they require a specific type of deck to abuse (you already know about the Worldgorger Dragon combo).
If you only ban the cards that appear on two or more B/R lists, you get the following:The most interesting thing about this list is that it adds to the previous list cards that are broken for single player and the cards that are broken for multiplayer (this is mostly because the B/R lists for Vintage and Legacy are nearly the same, and the B/R lists for Commander(EDH paper) and Commander are nearly the same. The cards on the EDH banned list are probably mostly banned because they are broken in multiplayer. The cards that are banned in Vintage/Legacy are banned because they are broken in duels.

Personally, I would just be the most cautious possible and (A)Ban any card that appears on any of the banned/restricted lists. The next most cautious thing to do would be to (B)Ban cards that are on the Legacy list, or on the EDH list. That would take care of the most broken cards in duels and the most broken cards in multiplayer. In either of these situations, I think you force people to be more creative in their deck creation, instead of relying on well known combos and powerful cards to make their decks better. I would use either of these banned list (A)/(B) as the starting point for any new Multiplayer Community Judge Contest, and only add additional cards to it when deemed necessary, either by someone breaking the format or by it going against the spirit of the format. (i.e. The Beastmaster format added Maze of Ith (et. al.) because they ran contrary to the format design, creature combat. Additional bannings would not have been necessary because Metalworker appeared on the EDH banned list, Mishra's Workshop appeared on the Legacy banned list, and Library of Alexandria/Tolarian Academy appeared on all the B/R lists. A few other cards were actually used in submitted decks, and probably should have been banned, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Metalworker, and Painter's Servant.

Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group

Each deck chooses a non-evergreen keyword or ability word.

I think it would be useful to list all the non-evergreen keywords/abilities for everyone, just so they don't have to remember them.

Modal - Is this a keyword?
Indestructible - Is this a keyword?
Unblockable - Is this a keyword?
The above aren't listed in the keyword section.
Keyword Actions

Keyword Actions
Activate
Attach
Cast
Counter
Destroy
Discard
Exchange
Flip a Coin
Play
Reveal
Sacrifice
Search
Shuffle
Tap
Untap
Fateseal
Clash
Planeswalk - N/A since we aren't playing Planar Magic
Set in Motion - N/A since we aren't playing Arch Enemy
Abandon - N/A since we aren't playing Arch Enemy
Proliferate

Of the above, should all be allowed in everyones decks regardless of the keyword/ability word, or should the all be restricted to individual decks? I don't know if keyword actions are the same thing as keyword abilities. I think we would have to allow (or did you mean Tap spelled out?) (otherwise, no lands could be used to generate mana), but might be restricted only to Untap keyword decks. It also needs to be decided if those are keywords, do you mean the symbols, the spelled out words, or both? This list also contains Fateseal (Can't be chosen as only two cards have the word, but does that mean everyone can use it?), Proliferate, and Clash.

Keyword Abilities

Keyword Abilities
Absorb - Disqualified for lack of cards
Affinity
Amplify
Annihilator
Aura Swap - Disqualified for lack of cards
Banding
Bloodthirst
Bushido
Buyback
Cascade
Champion
Changeling
Conspire
Convoke
Cumulative Upkeep
Cycling
Delve - Disqualified for lack of cards.
Devour
Dredge
Echo
Entwine
Epic
Exalted
Evoke
Fading
Flanking
Flashback
Forecast
Fortify - Disqualified for lack of cards.
Frenzy - Disqualified for lack of cards.
Graft
Gravestorm - Disqualified for lack of cards.
Haunt
Hideaway
Horsemanship
Infect
Intimidate
Kicker
Level Up
Madness
Modular
Morph
Ninjutsu
Offering
Persist
Phasing
Poisonous
Provoke
Prowl
Rampage
Rebound
Recover
Reinforce
Replicate
Retrace
Ripple
Shadow
Soulshift
Splice
Split Second
Storm
Sunburst
Suspend
Totem Armor
Transfigure - Disqualified for lack of cards.
Transmute
Unearth
Vanishing
Wither
Other Stuff
Basic land cycling (wizardcycling, et. al.) - They a variant of Cycling, are they a different (Type Cycling)?
Copy -
Imprint - The rules say it used to be a keyword, it no longer is.
Islandhome
 - Obsolete, but we all know what it means (Foresthome too).
Loyalty Ability - Is this a keyword ability (not technically)? Should we restrict planeswalkers in this way?
Multikicker - This is a variant of kicker, should they be different keywords, or both allowed in kicker decks?
Poison Counter - Should cards that mention poison counters (not Infect) be restricted to Infect or Poisonous decks?
Threshold
 - This used to be a keyword ability, it no longer is. Should we consider it one anyway? 
Not sure what to do about these, they aren't technically keyword abilities.

Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group

Would the legendary words "flip a coin" be legal as a keyword choice? It technically isn't a keyword but it should be imho.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Would the legendary words "flip a coin" be legal as a keyword choice? It technically isn't a keyword but it should be imho.

Good point. The Comprehensive Rules isn't set up in such a way to make it easy to find keywords (there are at least 3 sections) because they are classified slightly differently. I personally think "flip a coin" should be on the list as a keyword action (and therefore be restricted to Flip a coin decks).

It should also be noted that I didn't correctly identify the Untap symbol, and got the Chaos symbol above. I also said certain keyword abilities were disqualified, when there were less than 5 cards that supported that ability. This is technically untrue, since the only requirement is that 50% of the nonland cards must contain the keyword ability. I just don't think it is likely that someone is going to build a sliver deck with 8x total slivers and either Frenzy Sliver or Lymph Sliver, similiarly I don't see 4xArcanum Wings going in a deck with four total other cards (I would happily be proved wrong though).

Also these need to be clarified as to what they are exactly....
Basic land cycling (wizardcycling, et. al.) - They a variant of Cycling, are they a different (Type Cycling)?
Copy -
Imprint - The rules say it used to be a keyword, it no longer is.
Islandhome - Obsolete, but we all know what it means (Foresthome too).
Loyalty Ability - Is this a keyword ability (not technically)? Should we restrict planeswalkers in this way?
Multikicker - This is a variant of kicker, should they be different keywords, or both allowed in kicker decks?
Poison Counter - Should cards that mention poison counters (not Infect) be restricted to Infect or Poisonous decks?
Threshold - This used to be a keyword ability, it no longer is. Should we consider it one anyway?

Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group

The problem with EDH banned cards is that some are only broken in EDH specifically (as opposed to multiplayer as a whole). Sway the Stars is the first example to come to mind (broken only in the sense that players start at 40 life).

Still, Legacy + Commander banned list is something that I can easily get behind. There might be the occassional hit or miss between them, but it's a way to safely vary deck construction and pre-emptively prevent broken combos / decks from developing. In the end, I think that this is going to be the way to go.

Okay, so "legal" keywords / ability words should be listed out to choose from (since they're kind of gray-area and easy to misinterperate to begin with). Here's what I'm thinking, then:

Potentially Legal Keywords
Affinity
Amplify
Annihilator
Banding / Bands with Others
Bloodthirst
Bushido
Buyback
Cascade
Champion
Changeling
Channel
Chroma
Clash
Conspire
Convoke
Cumulative Upkeep
Cycling (all variants)
Devour
Domain
Dredge
Echo
Entwine
Epic
Exalted
Fading
Flanking
Flashback
Forecast
Graft
Grandeur
Haunt
Hellbent
Horsemanship
Imprint
Infect / Poisonous
Kicker / Multikicker
Kinship
Landfall
Level Up
Madness
Metalcraft
Modular
Morph
Ninjutsu
Offering
Persist
Phasing
Proliferate
Provoke
Prowl
Radiance
Rampage
Rebound
Reinforce
Replicate
Retrace
Shadow
Soulshift
Splice
Split Second
Storm / Grave Storm
Sunburst
Suspend
Sweep
Threshold
Totem Armor
Transmute/Transfigure
Unearth
Vanishing
Wither


Proposed Banned Keywords and Ability Words
Hideaway (how would it really fit when X% of the nonland cards need it?)

The following for appearing in far too few numbers (usually just a single futureshifted card:

Absorb
Aura Swap
Delve
Fateseal
Fortify
Frenzy


Proposed Clarifications
Landhome is not considered to be a keyword for this contest, as it's an obsoleted keyword that has been erratad off of the cards that once held it.

Coin flipping is considered to be a mechanical function of a card, not a keyword / ability word

No type, supertype nor subtype is to be considered a keyword / ability word (ie, Shrine, Tribal, Arcane, etc...)

Both "Gating" and "Recruitment" (the unofficial name for the Rebels' tutoring ability) are not considered keywords for this contest, as they have been officially granted such labelling (like Domain had in Conflux)

Planeswalkers (and subsequently adding and subtracting loyalty counters) is not a keyword or ability word.

Creatures that add poison counters but don't have either Infect or Poisonous do can be used in any deck, as they are not considered to have ether keyword

Copying spells and cloning permanents are not considered keywords

The untap symbol is not considered a keyword

Hybrid mana symbols and multicolored costs are not considered keywords

This contest only includes cards released as of Scars of Mirrodin.  As such, Battle Cry and Living Weapon are not legal keywords to choose


Also, I'm adding indestructible onto the evergreen list, since it's made appearances in both M10 and M11.

Since it's in the spirit of the format, I was thinking that even with the Legacy / EDH banned lists in effect, Cthulhu could be unbanned.  It would have to go into an "annihilator" specific deck, where half of the nonland permanents would need to contain annihilator (so either it's 48 Islands + 4 Khalni Garden + 4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn + 4 Polymorph or they have to make a more legitimate deck).

Did I miss anything?
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
Who Am I?
I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

I apparently missed...
Bands with Others
Channel
Chroma
Domain
Grandeur
Hellbent
Kinship
Landfall
Metalcraft
Radiance
Sweep

You missed
Evoke
Ripple - Probably only playable with Thrumming Stone+Relentless Rats, but you might have to splash a couple other colors to get your keyword card count up above 12-16.
Threshold - It says specifically in the Comprehensive Rules that this used to be a keyword, but it is no longer. So, my guess is that you would say Threshold cards are useable in all keyword decks.
This is why it is important for more than one set of eyes to look over something.
Also, why group Infect/Poisonous, it could just as easily be Infest/Wither.

Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group

I can't believe that I missed evoke!  It's one of my favorite abilities.

I'll also add ripple (as well as Recover, now that I think about it).

I combined Infect with Poisonous because they have the same end-game (to kill a player with poison counters).  Wither, although it share's Infect's -1/-1 counter portion, still deals normal damage to players (and I did briefly consider grouping all three together, although I thought that that would give too much comparative power / comparative options to the keyword grouping).

It was my understanding that Threshold was an ability word (or, at least, that it currently is), since it prefaces different abilities or outcomes linked together by a single commonality (ie, you can have wildly different effects, but only with 7 cards in your graveyard / scaled by the number of basic lands you control / requiring you to return lands to your hand / based on the number of colored mana symbols among permanents you control / etc...).

Discussing things a week in advance of the contest was a fantastic idea, Capitan_Estaban.  Thanks for suggesting it!
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Here's what the format currently looks like.  Please keep the suggestions coming!

Keyword Tribal Format Restrictions



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I assume Figure of Destiny is allowed in all decks, not just lvl up decks because it is different.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
I assume Figure of Destiny is allowed in all decks, not just lvl up decks because it is different.



Correct.  We'll be using the Gatherer to determine if cards that weren't explicitely printed with that ability word or keyword  actually have it.  If it doesn't say on the card and hasn't received errata to the contrary, than the card will not have the ability word / keyword in question.
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Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

Ok. Good to know. This will ensure that it will always be clear if it is a keyworded ability or not.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Cathaldus, in regard to Threshold. As I said in my previous comments, Threshold is not technically a keyword, it is an ability word (See CompRules Rule 206.2c). I believe the reason that it is no longer considered a keyword is because of some unusual interaction with the way the rules say it should work with Yixlid Jailer, and giving a card with Threshold in a graveyard Flashback (or I could be completely wrong). The important thing here is that the comprehensive rules say that Threshold, Sweep, Radiance, Kinship, Imprint, Hellbent, Grandeur, Domain, Chroma, and Channel are all ability words. The specific entry in the CompRules says this about Threshold...

Threshold
"Threshold" used to be a keyword ability. It is now an ability word and has no rules meaning. All cards printed with the threshold keyword have received errata in the Oracle card reference.

For the purpose of this contest, I really don't think it matters if we allow Threshold et. al. to be considered for keyword tribal decks. It's a community contest, and the community can decide what they want/don't want to be considered a keyword for the sake of the contest.
Regarding banning keywords, I personally wouldn't ban any keyword just because there are a lack of cards to support it. That way when someone comes up with a serious deck using a "banned" keyword...
...or a joke deck...
Who needs creatures?
Aura Swap - Keyword Tribal deck
// Lands
4xSavannah / Temple Garden
7xForest
6xPlains
4xTerrain Generator
4xKrosan Verge - Search
4xWindswept Heath / Grasslands - Search
1xMistveil Plains
1xTropical Island
1xTundra

4xTreetop Village
4xForbidding Watchtower
4xStirring Wildwood
4xCelestial Colonnade
4xStalking Stones

// Creatures
2xAuratouched Mage - Unfortunately, Sovereigns of Lost Alara is banned for Aura Swap
1xDowsing Shaman

// Other
4xArcanum Wings - Aura swap
1xMythic Proportions - (Wurmweaver Coil if you play with more Dowsing Shaman). Since Eldrazi Conscription is banned for Aura Swap
...they don't feel like their idea was dismissed without cause.
(Note: I know you aren't accepting deck submissions yet, but Hideaway (52 Land) will be my first official submission when the contest starts (If Hideaway et. al. are unbanned.)

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Your Hideaway deck would technically be illegal, since half of all of your nonland cards would need the ability (which is only itself on lands), meaning that you'd need an all-land deck for it to actually work.

Your point, however, is a perfectly valid one.  I will unban those key/ability words from contest consideration in the morning (the same time when I'll post my ranking for the Beastmaster contest).  If people do make decks out of them, more power to them.  Right now I need some sleep (it's 3 AM and I've been playing Magic is 8 PM).
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Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

Your Hideaway deck would technically be illegal, since half of all of your nonland cards would need the ability (which is only itself on lands), meaning that you'd need an all-land deck for it to actually work.

Your absolutely right. I read the rules slightly wrong. The rules said...

At least 50% of all non-land cards in the deck must contain the chosen keyword or ability word.
I was thinking...
At most 50% of all non-land cards in the deck may not contain the chosen keyword or ability word.

What I was thinking is that when determining the maximum number of spells (non-lands) in the deck that didn't contain the tribal keyword, just add up all the cards with the keyword ability, and that is the maximum number of spell cards that don't have your tribal keyword on them. I personally would prefer to be able to count land cards with the tribal keyword towards the decks keyword total. This would allow cards like Keldon Megaliths, Cabal Pit, and Secluded Steppe to count towards their decks keyword total and allow more variation in what is included in the spell portion of the deck. It is difficult to say if this gives decks too much freedom though...
Cycling - Keyword Tribal
// Land (nearly 50% keyword)
4xSecluded Steppe
4xTranquil Thicket
4xDrifting Meadow
4xSlippery Karst
4xForgotten Cave
4xSmoldering Crater
4xBlasted Landscape

// Other (almost anything you want since your lands hit 50% keyword, but probably including)
4xLightning Rift
4xAstral Slide
4xTilling Treefolk
4xSpirit Cairn

(BTW: I just noticed that Astral Slide (et. al.) don't contain the keyword cycling, they only say "when a player cycles a card". Is this another instance of where anyone could use Astral Slide in their decks like Figure of Destiny, or are cards that say "cycles" the same thing as "cycling"? Not that anyone would use them outside of a cycling keyword tribal deck, but it might be important to know if Astral Slide counts against/for their 50% limit.)
Personally, I see the inclusion of cards with the keyword in the deck as giving a deck builder the option of adding a spell card to the deck that doesn't contain the keyword on a 1 for 1 basis. I don't see why just because the keyword ability happens to be on a land, they don't get to add it to their keyword tribal count. The reason for the rule is to make sure they don't just create a deck with hardly any instances of they keyword (and since most lands don't have keywords, and most decks contain 40% land, you probably figured that was the clearest way to write the rule). The official "tribal" creature format just imposes a minimum of 20 cards (I think), but I think that I prefer your rule instead, except I would have worded it differently to allow players to count their lands that contain keywords towards their total.

For each card with the chosen keyword in the deck, a non-land card without the chosen keyword may be in the deck.
or
Non-land cards without the chosen keyword may not exceed the total number of cards with the chosen keyword.
or
? - (I am no expert at lawyer speak).

(This is kind of like a player starting out with 60 basic lands in their deck, and for each basic land they remove for a card with a keyword ability they can remove another land and add another spell to the deck without the keyword ability.)

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I'm sorry for having fallen behind on business this last week (I've got 60+ hours of teacher observations this semester, so that's been taking up a lot of my time), but I'll update the first post of this thread tonight with all of the pertinent information.

Next week starts our next contest: CadaverousBl00m's tribal variant.  I'm going to PM him to give us a list of the format rules so that we can have a look over them here. 
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Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

CadaverousBl00m was kind enough to provide me with a link to the original topic (located in his signature).  These are the rules that he posted for the format:

Show


  • Pick a tribe. Your deck must be at least one third cards from this tribe, or cards that match it.

  • No Goblins, Elves, Slivers, Merfolk, Zombies or Vampires.

  • You are allowed a full playset (four copies) of your tribal cards, and only a singelton of non-tribal cards (excluding basic land).

  • Cards with your tribe name in the card name are fine as playsets (e.g. Angelic Wall is allowed in an Angel deck, even if it isn't an Angel).

  • Cards that interact with your tribe are fine as playsets (e.g. Emeria Angel is allowed in a Bird deck).

  • If anything is line-ball, pass it by the rest of the group, and we'll see if we like it or not.

  • Peer Pressure, Extinction, Tsabo's Decree, Engineered Plague and Relentless Rats are banned outright.

  • Extra points for creativity.


  • Do you think that any of the tribes should be dropped or added to the banned list?

    I propose that cards whose names have names of MTG characters of the chosen tribe should be allowed and unrestricted (ie, Akroma's Vengeance should be allowed in an Angel deck).

    Thoughts? 
     
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    Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

    1/3 the chosen tribe, I assume this means 20 cards from a 60 card deck. Correct?
    The banned tribes seem to arbitrary to me. I understand Slivers, and the other tribes with 100+ cards, but why vampires? Should Allies be added to that list? I would personally expand it to ban any creature type that returns 100+ cards with that card subtype (in Gatherer).
    I personally love the singletons only of non-tribe cards rule.
    Not a huge fan of the "if it has the tribe name" or "interacts with your tribe" rule, but I can live with it.
    The banned list is missing Circle of Solace, Endemic Plague, and Unnatural Selection (not sure exactly why it is on the list? Spirit Mirror interaction?)
    An added rule should be that Changelings can only be included as singletons (unless your tribe is Shapeshifters of course).

    Tribal Wars (clearly the format it was based upon).
    Legacy B/R list for Tribal Wars (I have no idea if this is up to date).



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    1/3 the chosen tribe, I assume this means 20 cards from a 60 card deck. Correct?
    The banned tribes seem to arbitrary to me. I understand Slivers, and the other tribes with 100+ cards, but why vampires? Should Allies be added to that list?
    I personally love the singletons only of non-tribe cards rule.
    Not a huge fan of the "if it has the tribe name" or "interacts with your tribe" rule, but I can live with it.
    The banned list is missing Circle of Solace, Endemic Plague, and Unnatural Selection (not sure exactly why it is on the list? Spirit Mirror interaction?)
    An added rule should be that Changelings can only be included as singletons (unless your tribe is Shapeshifters of course).

    Tribal Wars (clearly the format is was base upon).
    Legacy B/R list for Tribal Wars (I have no idea if this is up to date).




    My playgroup banned Vampires simply because they required no thought to put together, and we were after creativity. No problem with unbanning this one. A bit of a similar situation to someone netdecking Myrball for this challenge.
    We decided to allow Allies, as the singleton rule completely borks up a rainbow manabase - Allies would be very reliant on getting Harabaz Druid onto the table and keeping it there to even work. In the end, no-one in my playgroup was brave enough.

    I'd be guessing that I went off the Banned/Restricted List you linked to, and missed Circle of Solace. Endemic Plague is actually quite crap in this format - it's a Wrath if you sac a Changeling, and that's about it. Most of the time, you're only crippling yourself. Agreed with Unnatural Selection, too - no idea why it's even mentioned. It's not in the Banned/Restricted List, FWIW. My vote would be to use the standard rules, along with using the initial format banned list plus Circle of Solace.

    And yes, 1/3 of the chosen tribe = 20 cards out of 60. I initially hated the fact that the singleton rule carried over to nonbasic land, but now that I've played with it, I adore it.
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    The banned tribes seem to arbitrary to me. I understand Slivers, and the other tribes with 100+ cards, but why vampires? Should Allies be added to that list? I would personally expand it to ban any creature type that returns 100+ cards with that card subtype (in Gatherer).



    Although the 100+ rule looks tempting. Some tribes aren't overplayed in tirbal decks and I think that was the reason some tribes are banned. But Spirits for instance have a lot of cards out there and I think spirits might be fun to include too.

    But it is a less arbitrary rule than banning a few creature types all together. (yes, I don't know if I like or hate the rule).
    Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
    If you're going to ban a tribe, you should probably ban Elementals. Especially if it's going to be a creativity contest. We already saw two nearly identical elemental decks when it wasn't a tribal contest.
    Endemic Plague is actually quite crap in this format - it's a Wrath if you sac a Changeling, and that's about it. ... Agreed with Unnatural Selection, too - no idea why it's even mentioned.

    And there is the answer. In a two player game, Endemic Plague+Unnatural Selection turns any of your creatures into a one sided WoG. In multiplayer, this might not be enough of a worry as you can only cripple a single opponent (Spreading Plague is much more effective with color changing creatures or Shifting Sky+Reassembling Skeleton). All these concerns might be misplaced since we are dealing with a partially singleton format in the first place.

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    Tribes by the Numbers
    (subtypes not adjusted for UNG/UNH, may/not be adjusted for Mirroden Besieged)
    Iconic/Profession
    Human - 1246
    Wizard - 444
    Soldier - 397
    Spirit - 326
    Warrior - 325
    Elemental - 278
    Beast - 273
    Goblin - 264
    Elf - 252
    Shaman - 243
    Zombie - 237
    Cleric - 225
    Knight - 158
    Bird - 151
    Rogue - 142
    Merfolk - 133
    If we are eliminating Merfolk , Zombies , Goblins , and Elves because they are iconic creature types and all of us have probably seen Tribal decks based off off of these creatures, then we can draw the line here (or at 125). The only creature types we "lose" are Humans (they have a large set of cards, but they don't really feel like a tribe), Wizards (one of the iconic Professions), Soldiers/Knights/Clerics (which are iconic Professions of the color of order), Spirit (made popular by Kamigawa, but not restricted to it), Warrior (reds most proliferic profession), Elemental (which as Minus_Prime already pointed out we have seen quite recently), Beast (a popular tribe for Green), Shaman (reds othe popular profession), Birds (whites second most proliferic tribe), and Rogue (made popular by Eventide/Lorwyn and mostly Blue/Black). Not a particularly big loss in my mind.
    Abundant
    Druid - 118
    Horror - 118
    Insect - 106
    Cat - 102
    Giant - 102
    Wall - 102
    Dragon - 92
    Golem - 79
    Sliver - 76 (banned: because it is an iconic tribe)
    Angel - 75
    Faerie - 72
    Shapeshifter - 72
    Scout - 69
    Illusion - 68
    Wurm - 66
    Rat - 64
    Construct - 63
    Ogre - 61
    Kithkin - 60
    Treefolk - 59
    Drake - 58
    Snake - 57
    Vampire - 57
    Spellshaper - 56
    Medium
    Rebel - 50
    Archer - 49
    Demon - 49
    Avatar - 45
    Kavu - 41
    Mercenary - 40
    Minion - 40
    Hound - 39
    Monk - 39
    Dwarf - 38
    Mutant - 38
    Samurai - 37
    Elephant - 36
    Lizard - 36
    Kor - 35
    Berserker - 34
    Myr - 32
    Artificer - 32
    Assassin - 32
    Barbarian - 32
    viashino - 31
    Ally - 30
    Centaur - 30
    Djinn - 30
    Spider - 30
    Advisor - 29
    Imp - 29
    Nomad - 29
    Fungus - 28
    Plant - 28
    Skeleton - 28
    Vedalken - 28
    Minotaur - 27
    Ox - 27
    Griffin - 26
    Light
    Ape - 25
    Scarecrow - 25
    Fish - 24
    Serpent - 24
    Dryad - 22
    Troll - 22
    Shade - 21
    Sphinx - 21
    Fox - 20
    Nightmare - 20
    Orc - 20
    Boar - 19
    Eldrazi - 19
    Gargoyle - 19
    Ooze - 18
    Rhino - 18
    Pirate - 17
    Thrull - 17
    Wolf - 17
    Bear - 16
    Drone - 16
    Efreet - 16
    Frog - 16
    Specter - 16
    Cephalid - 15
    Horse - 15
    Hydra - 15
    Moonfolk - 15
    Juggernaut - 14
    Incarnation - 13
    Leviathan - 13
    Atog - 12
    Licid - 12
    Nightstalker - 12
    Ouphe - 12
    Basilisk - 11
    Spike - 11
    Crab - 10
    Dauthi - 10
    Soltari - 10
    Unicorn - 10
    Crocodile - 9
    Cyclops - 9
    Leech - 9
    Phoenix - 9
    Yeti - 9
    Bat - 8
    Hag - 8
    Hellion - 8
    Lhurgoyf - 8
    Metathran - 8
    Ninja - 8
    Thopter - 8
    Antelope - 7
    Gnome - 7
    Jellyfish - 7
    Kobold - 7
    Mystic - 7
    Thalakos - 7
    Worm - 7
    Zubera - 7
    Goat - 6
    Homarid - 6
    Kraken - 6
    Pegasus - 6
    Slith - 6
    Turtle - 6
    Wolverine - 6
    Bringer - 5
    Elder - 5
    Gorgon - 5
    Homunculus - 5
    Kirin - 5
    Monger - 5
    Nephilim - 5
    Salamander - 5
    Scorpion - 5
    Slug - 5
    Volver - 5
    Wraith - 5
    Need Changeling/Other Support
    Archon - 4
    Aurochs - 4
    Carrier - 4
    Chimera - 4
    Manticore - 4
    Noggle - 4
    Orgg - 4
    Rabbit - 4
    Surrakar - 4
    Badger - 3
    Beeble - 3
    Devil - 3
    Elk - 3
    Harpy - 3
    Hippo - 3
    Masticore - 3
    Mongoose - 3
    Squid - 3
    Weird - 3
    Whale - 3
    Camel - 2
    Eye - 2
    Flagbearer - 2
    Hyena - 2
    Octopus - 2
    Phelddagrif - 2
    Rigger - 2
    Satyr - 2
    Squirrel - 2
    Anteater - 1
    Assembly-Worker - 1
    Brushwagg - 1
    Cockatrice - 1
    Dreadnought - 1
    Egg - 1 (Unglued)
    Ferret - 1
    Hippogriff - 1
    Lammasu - 1
    Nautilus - 1
    Oyster - 1
    Sheep - 1
    Siren - 1
    Sponge - 1
    Starfish - 1
    Wombat - 1
    Alphabetical
    Advisor - 29
    Ally - 30
    Angel - 75
    Anteater - 1
    Antelope - 7
    Ape - 25
    Archer - 49
    Archon - 4
    Artificer - 32
    Assassin - 32
    Assembly-Worker - 1
    Atog - 12
    Aurochs - 4
    Avatar - 45
    Badger - 3
    Barbarian - 32
    Basilisk - 11
    Bat - 8
    Bear - 16
    Beast - 273
    Beeble - 3
    Berserker - 34
    Bird - 151
    Boar - 19
    Bringer - 5
    Brushwagg - 1
    Camel - 2
    Carrier - 4
    Cat - 102
    Centaur - 30
    Cephalid - 15
    Chimera - 4
    Cleric - 225
    Cockatrice - 1
    Construct - 63
    Crab - 10
    Crocodile - 9
    Cyclops - 9
    Dauthi - 10
    Demon - 49
    Devil - 3
    Djinn - 30
    Dragon - 92
    Drake - 58
    Dreadnought - 1
    Drone - 16
    Druid - 118
    Dryad - 22
    Dwarf - 38
    Efreet - 16
    Egg - 1 (Unglued)
    Elder - 5
    Eldrazi - 19
    Elemental - 278
    Elephant - 36
    Elf - 252
    Elk - 3
    Eye - 2
    Faerie - 72
    Ferret - 1
    Fish - 24
    Flagbearer - 2
    Fox - 20
    Frog - 16
    Fungus - 28
    Gargoyle - 19
    Giant - 102
    Gnome - 7
    Goat - 6
    Goblin - 264
    Golem - 79
    Gorgon - 5
    Griffin - 26
    Hag - 8
    Harpy - 3
    Hellion - 8
    Hippo - 3
    Hippogriff - 1
    Homarid - 6
    Homunculus - 5
    Horror - 118
    Horse - 15
    Hound - 39
    Human - 1246
    Hydra - 15
    Hyena - 2
    Illusion - 68
    Imp - 29
    Incarnation - 13
    Insect - 106
    Jellyfish - 7
    Juggernaut - 14
    Kavu - 41
    Kirin - 5
    Kithkin - 60
    Knight - 158
    Kobold - 7
    Kor - 35
    Kraken - 6
    Lammasu - 1
    Leech - 9
    Leviathan - 13
    Lhurgoyf - 8
    Licid - 12
    Lizard - 36
    Manticore - 4
    Masticore - 3
    Mercenary - 40
    Merfolk - 133
    Metathran - 8
    Minion - 40
    Minotaur - 27
    Monger - 5
    Mongoose - 3
    Monk - 39
    Moonfolk - 15
    Mutant - 38
    Myr - 32
    Mystic - 7
    Nautilus - 1
    Nephilim - 5
    Nightmare - 20
    Nightstalker - 12
    Ninja - 8
    Noggle - 4
    Nomad - 29
    Octopus - 2
    Ogre - 61
    Ooze - 18
    Orc - 20
    Orgg - 4
    Ouphe - 12
    Ox - 27
    Oyster - 1
    Pegasus - 6
    Phelddagrif - 2
    Phoenix - 9
    Pirate - 17
    Plant - 28
    Rabbit - 4
    Rat - 64
    Rebel - 50
    Rhino - 18
    Rigger - 2
    Rogue - 142
    Salamander - 5
    Samurai - 37
    Satyr - 2
    Scarecrow - 25
    Scorpion - 5
    Scout - 69
    Serpent - 24
    Shade - 21
    Shaman - 243
    Shapeshifter - 72
    Sheep - 1
    Siren - 1
    Skeleton - 28
    Slith - 6
    Sliver - 76 (banned: because it is an iconic tribe)
    Slug - 5
    Snake - 57
    Soldier - 397
    Soltari - 10
    Specter - 16
    Spellshaper - 56
    Sphinx - 21
    Spider - 30
    Spike - 11
    Spirit - 326
    Sponge - 1
    Squid - 3
    Squirrel - 2
    Starfish - 1
    Surrakar - 4
    Thalakos - 7
    Thopter - 8
    Thrull - 17
    Treefolk - 59
    Troll - 22
    Turtle - 6
    Unicorn - 10
    Vampire - 57
    Vedalken - 28
    viashino - 31
    Volver - 5
    Wall - 102
    Warrior - 325
    Weird - 3
    Whale - 3
    Wizard - 444
    Wolf - 17
    Wolverine - 6
    Wombat - 1
    Worm - 7
    Wraith - 5
    Wurm - 66
    Yeti - 9
    Zombie - 237
    Zubera - 7
    I would prefer people to tackle the Medium/Light Tribes (or if they really wanted a challenge the Changeling/Other Support section), as I have seen many Tribal decks in the Abundant section (although I would be kind of interested in what someone would come up with with Spellshaper Tribal). I wouldn't prevent anyone from building out of the Abundant section, just don't expect many creativity points from me (unless you have a much different take than I have seen before).

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    I think that we should looks less at the numbers and look more at the overall tribal support that each receives, particularly in the form of lords.  If tribes are to be banned, than it should be because there ate 50 really good, really synergistic creatures in the tribe, not 500 really terrible ones.

    These are the ones that I can think of that have really strong tribal support:

    Show
    Soldiers
    knights
    Cats
    Birds
    Merfolk
    Wizards
    Faerie
    Zombies
    Vampires
    Rogue
    Rats
    Goblin
    Elementals
    Dragons (ish)
    Treefolk
    Elves
    Slivers
    Allies
     

    The question becomes, though, which of the above supported tribes have enough tribal support to make them comparatively strong choices.  I think that it's pretty safe to take Dragons, Wizards and Birds off of the list.  Knights, Cats and vampires seem like they could be safew to take off as well.  Beyond that, I'm 50-50 on Elementals, Rats and Rogues.

    Here's what I think would be the requisite tribes to ban for the contest, due to being unduly strong options:

    Banned Tribes?
    Soldiers
    Merfolk
    Fae
    Zombies
    Rogues (maybe)
    Rats (maybe)
    Vampires
    Goblins
    Elementals (maybe)
    Treefolk
    Elves
    Slivers
    Allies
     
    "Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
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    Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

    Maybe just ban Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, Morningtide, and Eventide? The ones that were all about tribes? This way we get rid of most of the cards that were designed with synergistic tribal support in mind, but we don't have to single out any tribes based on anything a little too subjective.
    Although we shouldn't have to ban anything if we're instructed to rank everybody on some combination of creativity and effectiveness. Let people play Elves and see if they can actually do something original with them.

    Regardless, the tribe I'm looking at is in no way in danger of being called out, so I'm really not concerned with whatever ban conditions are chosen.
    Cathaldus, I would love to be able to measure objectively the amount of "tribe support" that exists in a tribe. I think the problem is there is no way to objectively measure it. Are Druids not well supported because they don't have a lord? They are all mostly green, all have similar abilites (mana related), they even Gilt-Leaf Archdruid.

    Minus Prime, lorwyn block wasn't the only creature type matters block. Onslaught (Leigons, Scourge) and (Apocalypse, Invasion Block) were other creature type based decks.

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    Shadowmoor and Eventide were about color.  And if you're only going for the Lorwyn half of that block, than you might as well throw in Fallen Empires and Onslaught, since they were both tribal-themed.  I think that smply banning blocks is far too extreme, though, since you lose all of the support cards and non-tribal cards from those sets.  I believe that banning tribes from being chosen for decks would be a better option than outright banning huge swaths of cards. 
    "Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
    Who Am I?
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    IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
    Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

    ... think that smply banning blocks is far too extreme, though, since you lose all of the support cards and non-tribal cards from those sets.  I believe that banning tribes from being chosen for decks would be a better option than outright banning huge swaths of cards. 

    Absolutely, I wasn't advocating for banning entire blocks of cards. I do take issue with your subjective evaluation of which tribes have the strongest "tribe support." 
    The only differences between my list and yours is...
    Show

    I have the following (and you don't):
    Human - 1246
    Wizard - 444 (which you think is safe)
    Spirit - 326
    Warrior - 325
    Beast - 273
    Shaman 243
    Cleric - 225
    Knight - 158
    Bird - 151 (which you think is safe)

    You have the following (and I don't):
    Faeries
    Rats - (maybe qualifier)
    Vampire
    Treefolk
    Allies
    Cats/Dragons - (which you think are safe were removed)
    I suppose we could use some sort of objective measure of how much "tribe support" a tribe has. If that creature type has a lord it is banned.
    We could say, if a card exists that says: (Other/you countrol is optional)...
         (Other) "creature type" creatures (you control) get +1/+1

    Then that tribe is a banned tribe and can't be chosen for your creature type. This wouldn't explain why Treefolk is on your list, but not Birds (or worse Soulcatchers' Aerie although it is technically not a lord). On the same line of thinking, do we want to add Door of Destinies to the Banned List? (I would hate everyone feel they have to put the card in as a singleton with some artifact search just to make their creatures more effective)

    We could say, if a card has a creature type tutor it is banned.
         Search you library for a creature type card

    That would explain Rats on your list, but then we would have to ban Dwarves, and no one thinks dwarfs are a strong tribe.

    We could also use another objective measure like counting the number of cards that mention a creature type within the rules text (this is somewhat difficult because you might have to remove references to a cards name...Arctic Merfolk), and banning any tribe as a selectable tribe that has greater than or equal number of references to iconic tribes (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves, Zombie, Sliver, whichever has the fewest). I personally think this is a little too much work, and will probably continue to ban tribes that others have already wanted to include (Spirits to name one).


     

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    There's a point - rather than banning Rats as a tribe, my playgroup simply banned Relentless Rats. Just to prevent someone being a smarty-pants and building a deck with 35 of those, a Thrumming Stone and a few tutors.
    ~ Guides I Have Been Silly Enough To Write ~
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    CadaverousBl00m's Guide To Multiplayer Artifice
    Multiplayer Tribal Format

    ~ Latest Multiplayer Ramblings: Appearing on my blog when I feel like it ~
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    Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
    Watch The Little Birdies! (Bird Tribal with Proliferate)
    Kavu Kavu Kavu Banana (Kavu Predator aggro)
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    Braaiiins! (Mono-black Zombie control)
    Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
    Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)
    I personally love being a smarty pants. If we use the currently suggested tribe Banned list by Cathaldus, I will use this as my "Human" Tribe deck

    4xCatapult Squad
    4xVeteran Armorsmith
    4xField Marshal
    4xVeteran Swordsmith
    4xDaru Warchief
    ...
    various WoG, Armageddon effects, etc.

    I think the problem so far is that we haven't defined why we are banning certain tribes.

    Are the bannings to prevent effective tribes?
    Are the bannings to prevent obvious builds (to make tribes effective)?
    Are the bannings to prevent a lack of creative deck submissions?

    Maybe we should establish the judging criteria (how much awarded for creativity %, effective %, etc.), to make it easier to decide if we even need bannings (and why those tribes should be banned). 

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    Maybe we should have everyone pick a tribe and then assign each tribe to each contestant at random. Then we can ban just the tribes that have too few creatures. We can judge people based on how cruel their picks were, and how much of a miracle they pulled off with their assignments.

    If we do this, I vote for a cutoff of 25 cards in that tribe, so we can avoid both Serpent and Eldrazi.
    You have a good point, Capitan_Estaban.

    My reasoning behind banning certain tribes is one of power: to level the field against disproportionately powerful tribes that are powerful due to both numbers and support.  Rereading your previous post on the number of cards of each tribe, I think that what you have listed under iconic tribes plus slivers (plus banning Relentless Rats specifically, ala CadaverousBl00m's suggestion) would probably level the field really nicely.  At the very least, it's probably a really good place to start (and can be adjusted if one tribe or another is proving problematic).

    Minus_Prime, I don't believe that Eldrazi will really be an issue.  I'm sure one (or several) people might try a build, but with every non-tribal-alligned, non-basic land card restricted to a singleton, I don't think that they'll be rushing out quite as quickly as they'd be allowed to otherwise.  Plus, this format would have the usual sorts of answers in sweepers and targetted removal to take care of them, so I don't foresee them being too problematic.

    I think Shapeshifter Tribal is right up my ally!
    "Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
    Who Am I?
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    I am Blue/Black
    Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
    Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
    I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
    IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
    Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.

    BTW Cathaldus,
    I notice in your Overall Ranking section (which hasn't been updated yet). You list the amount of points that someone has received for Pauper (presumably you will add and then average the other contest point results). When you start to add in the other contest results and average them, the resulting number may not express how well someone has placed over multiple contests.

    The reason being if lets say in this next contest Not Iconic Tribal (have you settled on a name?) we have a total of 20 entries (I know this is doubtful, but bear with me). The average score that everyone would receive would be 19*10.5=199.5. This contest will have the largest proportional weight in deciding a persons overall score. This might be perfectly acceptable though, because it is harder to rank in 1st place when you have 19 opponents. This probably won't be too much of an issue if we get similar participation over the course of the contests (which we have so far have been pretty consistant (8,9,8). This does mean that my (and Minus_Prime's) 1st place ranking in Beastmaster will have been given slightly more weight than it should be given).

    I can't think of any easy way off the top of my head to rectify this (and Google searches have turned up empty...most likely because I don't know the proper search term to use to find the information).

    As for your Mac issues with the editing posts, are you cutting/pasting from a text document, or entering the text directly into the WYSIWYG editor? I have had problems with opening a file from a Mac, and then pasting in windows. (I thought I saved the file with the correct encoding?). I have haven't had issues with parts of a post being deleted though. If parts were deleted, you might want to check your HTML (click the HTML button). Sometimes if your tags aren't closed properly (cutting/pasting other peoples posts will sometimes do this), it won't display parts of your post. (I am sure you have seen issues with this before since you mention reposting other PMed messages. You will find errors in cutting/pasting those because the HTML will include anchor tags with targets to the Gatherer, but those tags get garbled in the process of moving it in/out of clipboard)

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    I have a suggested format for an upcomming Deck Master Contest. (just in case you are running out of ideas).

    Enemy Shards (Star/Pentagram) Format.
    Choose a Shard






    Your deck will face off against other Enemy Shard decks in a Star Format game. Decks that are from the same chosen shard can easily be judged against each other, but their might be a slight issue if someone doesn't submit a deck for a shard (but I and others are likely to pick up the slack).

    1.) Advantages over monocolored Star Format.
       Many people have already played monocolored Star format decks, this will require more creativity.
       It is easier to color hose in mono colored (Light of Day, Gloom, Chill, etc.).

    2.) Advantages over FFA.
       This will allow a change in pace from many of the previous deck submission where sweepers were more common.
       With only two real opponents, aggro decks have an actual chance.

    This kind of plays off Zovc's suggestion of Tri-color decks, but with a small twist. 

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