12/08/2010 BoaB: "What I've Been Working On"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I don get the interaction between Ezuri and Devoted Druid. Won't 2 -1/-1 counters put the druid into graveyard with no chance of being regenerated?
Yeah, I have the same question too.

I thought it was a state-based effect, and you can't regenerate from those?
Ezuri pumps the other elves by giving the +3/+3 and trample, and if you untap one 3 times and the other twice, then you can activate ezuri again, giving them both another +3/+3, thus one of them remained the same size, while the other gained +1/+1... but you can do this for ever...

I tested a list very similar to this but the reliability and consistency just wasn't there, so I reverted to relying on splashing white for Ranger of Eos to find the Heritage Druid, Nettle Sentinel combo... This also gives you access to Burrenton Forge-Tender, and sideboard answers to Ethersworn Canonist which is pretty much game against you if you don't have the answer...

As for Gumby (Chameleon Colossus), I tried him out, but the protection from red and blue on Oversoul of Dusk was far more useful then the pump ability...
Hi,

How would you improve the list if it was a non-budget deck? And what's the sideboard that you're running?

Thanks
The list is pretty much identical to a non-budget list, the only thing I would add, as it is a mono-green version, is a handful of fetches, not necessarily the full 8, I am not convinced that is the right number, but maybe 4 or 5... as for the sideboard, anti Faerie tech in the form of Cloudthresher is a must, I also run Oversoul of Dusk as mentioned above for its ability to race Vendillion Clique while being resistant to removal...  after that, my sideboard is white, I have no idea what other green cards are viable...
Hey great article, I ran a similar list last night for extended except I played 4 Genesis Wave, they were never dead cards and are honestly worth having 4 of.  The devoted druid interaction is something I didn't see, i'll give that a whirl.  I also run 1 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid, after Genesis Wave (or 2) you seal the game by taking all their lands.
Hey great article, I ran a similar list last night for extended except I played 4 Genesis Wave, they were never dead cards and are honestly worth having 4 of.  The devoted druid interaction is something I didn't see, i'll give that a whirl.  I also run 1 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid, after Genesis Wave (or 2) you seal the game by taking all their lands.



Genesis Wave was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Devoted Druid+Ezuri, Renegade Leader interaction. Llanowar Elves and Arbor Elf are necessary, obviously, but how would the addition of Training Grounds affect the mana production to feed to Ezuri? Could I bust out a huge Genesis Wave and plop most of my deck on the table? Could one of those cards be a Predator Dragon? What about Burst of Speed to give all my creatures haste until end of turn? All questions I don't have answers to, but I like articles that make me think!

The transmuter deck is interesting and not that expensive. I'm waiting for teh brokenz artifact decks during worlds!
i dont think your artifact deck is good enough. without a transmuter it is slower than my grandma and you know that your trasnmuter will either countered or not see the next turn.

second if you will not share the deck, why are you mentioning it? either give the decklist for your fae beater deck or dont talk about it all.

you are using the name "budget" in the column to pass suboptimal versions of your decks, which does no good. either include the full version or really talk about only budget decks
im building the transmuter deck and i think jvl knows what hes talking about so until you get your own column on mtg i think you shouldnt talk smack you shouldnt tell him how to do his job Laughing
im building the transmuter deck and i think jvl knows what hes talking about so until you get your own column on mtg i think you shouldnt talk smack you shouldnt tell him how to do his job 



 cool but remember what i said when you 0-2 dropped with that deck  Laughing
im not building his exact version i have a lil more money in mine like mox and other stuff im just saying that its not cool to tell him how too do his job and besides you know thats not "his" extended build hes probly got a alot more rare/expensive cards. he even said that he got  alot of emails about the deck list so he made a better budget list for that deck is still a budget deck. besides you dont even know my player skill so saying that ill drop 0-2 is a foolish thing to say  
@seydaneen: He's not "denying you secret tech" or something; it's just as he said, his faeries tech list is most likely more expensive than what BoaB allows, and as he's had fanboys in full on Nerd-rage about not keeping it "budget" in the past, he just didn't post it. I'm sure if you email him asking fr it he'll let you know.

@secrettech: haveyou heard of commas? How about Apostrophes? Seriously, don't do that. Your peer group, your grades and your mother will thank you.

@ the board: I've been tooling around with and Elves! list for extended and i find that, while awesome, you shouldn't build around that interction. It should definitely be in there, as it can steal wins out of nowhere and the cards are good on their own, but just keep it like the list in the article. Have it be a Package instead of the focus of the deck. It works better.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
@JaketheLate you didn't put a space in your first line to correct me about grammar. 
last time i checked "haveyou" is not a compound word. i do however agree with your remark about JVL.

thank you for your English lesson professor. 
@JaketheLate you didn't put a space in your first line to correct me about grammar. 
last time i checked "haveyou" is not a compound word. i do however agree with your remark about JVL.

thank you for your English lesson professor. 



yeah, accidentaly missing a space once is the same thing as intentionally leaving out almost all punctuation. You use periods so you're better than some, but there is a difference between a typo and the crime against the english language you commit whenever you sit down to type.

Seriously, people will respect you alot more and take you much more seriously if you convey your thoughts well.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
i just think if your going to correct someone for proper sentence structure.
you should do what called proofreading to check for mistakes. as for the English language you so gallantly defend it doesn't even follow its own rules.

example the word "kneel" according to our alphabet should be neel.
its a contradiction silent letters shouldn't exist why do you think English is the hardest language to learn? 


its the internet bro when i want you to grade English papers for me ill post them on mtg for you 
i just think if your going to correct someone for proper sentence structure.
you should do what called proofreading to check for mistakes. as for the English language you so gallantly defend it doesn't even follow its own rules.

example the word "kneel" according to our alphabet should be neel.
its a contradiction silent letters shouldn't exist why do you think English is the hardest language to learn? 


its the internet bro when i want you to grade English papers for me ill post them on mtg for you 



That's not my point. First off, I agree that the English language sucks. It is very hard to learn, and even harder to understand all the complexities.

That being said, the point and purpose of proper grammar and punctuation is to help yourselves and others make sense of the misshapen ball of irregularities, double standards and inexplicable rules that we call the English language.

People are more willing to read and respond to someone who actually lays out what they want to say in an easily comprehensible manner.

Think about it this way; imagine you're at a dentists office. The dentist comes into your room and says, "Alright, secrettech, we're going to be removing one of your wisdom teeth today."
Now, imagine that exact same situation,except the doctor comes in and says, "yea yea yea! I's 'bout to get all up in that mouf and rip dat toof right outta dere!"

Which one would you rather have perform the operation?
The point is that they could have both graduated from the same university, at the same time, and had all the same classes. Hell, they could have been in the same classes, and the second one could have gotten better grades than the first, but 90% of the time people irrationally, subconsciously would rather the first one perform the procedure because he sounds like he knows what he's doing.

Bad grammar and bad punctuation is a bad habit, and you'll be surprised where id bleeds over.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
well if you wanted me too be more clear you should have just said something in a not so offensive way.i agree with your outlook about professionalism. to be honest the way i wrote it and the way i would have spoke it are two completely different things. the way someone speaks is dialect and emphasis on certain things. i would have expressed my punctuation in my tone of voice. the way you portrayed the second dentist was using Ebonics which isn't the way i speak. i would have sounded very monotone if i spoke the way i wrote. 

but to the original topic. i didn't think you could regenerate the elf he had negative counters on him so i don't get how it works.
well if you wanted me too be more clear you should have just said something in a not so offensive way.i agree with your outlook about professionalism. to be honest the way i wrote it and the way i would have spoke it are two completely different things. the way someone speaks is dialect and emphasis on certain things. i would have expressed my punctuation in my tone of voice. the way you portrayed the second dentist was using Ebonics which isn't the way i speak. i would have sounded very monotone if i spoke the way i wrote. 

but to the original topic. i didn't think you could regenerate the elf he had negative counters on him so i don't get how it works.

The combo here doesn't use the regeneration ability of Ezuri, only his pump ability. Each time he pumps the toughness of each Devoted Druid means three more -1/-1 counters that that Druid can put on itself to untap, then produce more green mana. This process can be repeated any number of times with two Druids, by alterning which Druid produces only two mana for each loop and which produces three, keeping them both above zero toughness the whole time. Of course, if the game doesn't end that turn, once the bonuses from Ezuri wear off, both druids die, but your opponent should have lost before that happens.

Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
well if you wanted me too be more clear you should have just said something in a not so offensive way.i agree with your outlook about professionalism. to be honest the way i wrote it and the way i would have spoke it are two completely different things. the way someone speaks is dialect and emphasis on certain things. i would have expressed my punctuation in my tone of voice. the way you portrayed the second dentist was using Ebonics which isn't the way i speak. i would have sounded very monotone if i spoke the way i wrote. 

but to the original topic. i didn't think you could regenerate the elf he had negative counters on him so i don't get how it works.


I know. I was just trying to point out that the way a message is coveyed matters almost as much, if not more, than the message itsself. Sadly, studies have shown that people are more likely to take you seriously if you have no accent whatsoever, regardless of background. as for the ebonics, I was trying to find a dialect that people usually find hard to understand or completely comrehend.

As to your question:
The combo doesn't work with Ezuri's regen ability, it works with his overrun ability. You use the Druids -1/-1 abilites to add enough green mana to your ana pool to activate Ezuri's ability, giving them an additional three toughness. This means each druid gets another three activations. you alternate who activates twice and who activates three times with every Ezuri activation. They do die when Ezuri's pumps wear off, but you should have won by then.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
OH you need two of the druids OK. i wasn't seeing it with just ezuri and one druid.
 
OH you need two of the druids OK. i wasn't seeing it with just ezuri and one druid.
 


Yeah, it's not the easiest thing to get going, but it's a nifty little package, and both cards more than earn their spots on their own power.

I've already made an Elves! deck for a tournament happening this week, and the strategy is very powerful. Faeries is a bit sketchy, but some Stags and Colossi in the board help shut them down. The only thing I'd suggest doing is more Genesis Wave. Having one in hand and beating in with a pair of Stags against a faerie player is pretty satisfying. They'll eventually tap out to deal with them(a la consume the meek) or just mistap(don't let opponents re-tap mana in testing, no matter what for. It does you and your opponent a disservice) and slamming a Wave and flooding the board is sweet.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
ya no such luck with an extended tournament this week. my local shop only does standard.although i like the format.
that sucks. it's a reqally fun format.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
You're hot as ever JvL. Building decks in open formats really seems to be your forte, and it intertwines well with a budget column (since the cards aren't staples...yet). I went ahead and built  the elves deck to play it a couple times to satisfaction. One game I was put to 1 life by fliers with 2x elvish archdruid, 1x devoted druid, 1x   heritage druid and 1x Nettle Sentinel on my side, no cards in hand. My draw was a Regal Force  and I went from there to use 3x devoted druid + heritage druid to power through  with Ezuri. Excellent..

I also would like to know what good sideboard strategies are. Presumably 4x Nature's Claim is part of it... since life gain on the other side can't stop you.
I'd love to see a non-budget version of the artifact deck.

What I've done so far with your version of the deck is that I've changed the SOM-duals into M10-duals because I feel that the SOM-duals will come into play tapped much more frequently than their core set counterparts. I have also removed Semblance Anvil because I think that the downside of it far outweighs its rewards. You always have to consider that they will be destroyed. Losing two cards in order to potentially save two colourless mana just doesn't cut the proverbial mustard. Instead of that mustard I added some household awesome-sauce in the form of Silver Myrs. They essentially cost one (if you have an Elexir in play) and if they die, it's not really a problem since the graveyard is basically fitted with revolving doors in this deck.

You mentioned Molten-Tail Masticore in your article, but is it really worth exiling cards from the graveyard?

I've also considered putting four DoJs in the SB along with four Open the Vaults. It might be a bit slow, but then again, it may also work.

As I said, a non-budget version of the deck would be much appreciated, even if it's just posted here in the forums and not in an article.
About the artifact deck, is there some way to deal with vampires?
Just played a game where my opponent just kept targeting my artifacts more than i could bounce them back...

Thought of using Scourglass for this (also destroys oblivion ring and  journey to nowhere) and fabricate to tutor both scourglass and thousand year elixir...

Also, the deck seems a bit slow without the elixir or the transmuter...



Anyways, just fell in love with transmuter deck, gotta finish building it and see what happens =) 
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