12/06/2010 MM: "That's Going To Leave Scars, Part 2"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I dont like how the dude wishes he could go back and change Liquidmetal Coating Not only is the card barley used, it is just all around good.

So what if it "breaks the color pie" Whoop de doo Red has the potential to dystroy enchantments for almost 2 years in standard, after that, then what? Everything is going to be back to normal.

Sorry I just find it humerous that this card along with naturalize can kill a JTMS.
I liked this article. Though i'm not that thrilled about a three-parter.

* I too found it funny that he complained about Coating, espeically when Lux cannon gives red the abilty to destroy enchantments with one card. (That's what artifacts do, allow colors to do things they normally can't)
… and then, the squirrels came.
MaRo, why do you hate red?  Why do you want to make it a stupid, simple color which does nothing but burn-aggro-burn and has no backup plan? Why do you want to make it so one or two Sphere of Laws can utterly destroy every red deck there is?

Liquimetal's ability to target noncreatures is an extremely good thing.  Be not ashamed.  The whole point of artifacts is that they give you access to abilities you don't normally had.  I wouldn't balk if you just made a "Disenchanting Rod" that black AND red AND blue can all use to destroy artifacts AND enchantments, for a suitably steep cost.  The colors should all have all the basic tools they need to function, their flavor should come through not in WHAT they're capable of doing but HOW they do it and what they do BEST.

I want an answer about Lux Cannon, but not from Maro.  What I want to hear is why it has that picture.  Why does it look more like a decorative pedestal than a gun?  How are you supposed to aim the damn thing?  Why is it UNDERGROUND?  So...many...questions....

And if cards like Kemba's Skyguard, Lifesmith, Trigon of Mending, Whitesun's Passage and the like are what you think is "strong" lifegain, you need a serious reality check.  "Strong" lifegain would be a 4/2 creature for 4 mana that gives you 4 life whenever it attacks.  "Strong" lifegain is Child of Night and Vampire Nighthawk.  "Strong" lifegain is Life Burst, or Sun's Bounty, or "gain 5 life and draw a card" for 3 mana or so.  Anything less than that isn't going to be of much relevance even in an environment which doesn't contain poison; with that running around to make all lifegain useless, the envelope ought to have been pushed still more.  (Yeah, I know, I'm saying cards need to be stronger or they're worthless, who am I and what have I done with Willpell?)

Thank Mr. Purvis for Heavy Arbalest for me.  It's a card whose presence in the set I greatly appreciate.

Next time, make the Glint Hawk Idol cycle up front.  Something that important should be a central feature of any artifact set.  The five cards you have are really lacking, very much displaying their sloppy, last-minute nature.  Saberclaw Golem is a particular disappointment; Coiled Tinviper demonstrates that first strike is perfectly possible on a colorless card, and red's relationship with artifacts (being the color of forge and furnace, which both likes and hates artifacts in a way no other color does) is far too interesting to squander its slot this way.  Honestly, the more I hear about Wizards' inner workings, the more I think you just need to work on sets for longer and not rush them out the door when they're still so thoroughly imperfect.  I know the media businesses are all publish-or-perish, but you need to think less like salesmen and more like artists.  These cards have a meaning beyond the money you can sell them for; they need to be crafted with love, not stapled together in a rush.

And for the record, Glimmerpoint Stag is a virtual french vanilla because of vigilance.
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I liked this article. Though i'm not that thrilled about a three-parter.

Well, after he got to D in the first article, he said there would be one more article. It didn't work out.

Now, he's at the middle of the alphabet, and he says there will be one more article.

Well, it may work out to three parts - but it may also work out to four.

I also have to agree that I wouldn't worry about Liquidmetal Coating. If it were a wildly popular card showing up in every deck (of a certain type or color) that would be a problem. An effect that breaks the color pie, but isn't overpowered or undercosted is not that serious.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

Hi Mark

Here's my two cents on these cards.

I'm okay with Liquimetal Coating. I don't see this as "red being able to destroy enchantments." Although it can equal that, there's all kinds of other funky off-colour stuff that can be done with a middle-man card. Let the Johnnies have their fun. :>

Flesh Allergy actually struck me as kind of unusual, the first time I played it. I don't expect a card to do two significant and different things. I don't mind if one ability is a small bonus, but with Flesh Allergy, it's often the case that both abilities are very significant. I think part of the issue is that the card is just trying to do too much (sac, destroy, life loss).

Glimmerpoint Stag is good fun. I like that kind of simple, open-ended card.

Glint Hawk strikes me as being out of place. I didn't naturally associate it with its four cycly brethren. I was looking for four other idols.

Glint Hawk does strike the right off-colour/on-colour balance though. I agree that the card should be viable even when it's off-colour. Wall of Tanglecord hits the mark here too.

In general, I'm enjoying SOM limited. It has good depth, and a lack of un-fun cards.

`|:>
* I too found it funny that he complained about Coating, espeically when Lux cannon gives red the abilty to destroy enchantments with one card. (That's what artifacts do, allow colors to do things they normally can't)

That's a really good point.  Scars has four direct "destroy any kind of permanent" artifact cards already (Lux Cannon, Argentum Armor, Steel Hellkite, Ratchet Bomb), what additional harm does Liquimetal Coating do?
Glint Hawk strikes me as being out of place. I didn't naturally associate it with its four cycly brethren. I was looking for four other idols.

Glint Hawk does strike the right off-colour/on-colour balance though. I agree that the card should be viable even when it's off-colour. Wall of Tanglecord hits the mark here too.

Yeah, Soliton succeeds, too.  I guess it's just a very loose cycle, but Glint Hawk Idol is definitely the odd one out, since the other four are all creatures, three of which gain a keyword when activated.
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
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His bit on liquimetal caoating angered me, red cant destory enchantments,so what? It gives an answer to the auto red hoser Leline of Sancitiy. It also answers Planswalkers that win games outright.
Well, I was going to write in and say that MaRo was being too hard on himself and Liquimetal Coating, but I see about half a dozen people already beat me to it, so I'll skip all the cards like Nevy's Disk or, more recently, Ratchet Bomb that work outside of the color pie and would be completely out of flavor in certain colors.

I do have something else to say, though.  Two things, actually.  First, I want to say that if I had been deciding on which cards get which watermark, I'd definitely have given Grasp and its spiritual bretheren the Phyrixian one.  "Cards that give -X/-X" should have been on the list.  It could even have replaced "Cards with infect", since the latter is a subset of the former.

Second, I want to know why Geth doesn't mill first, then reanimate.  (Yes, I understand it would require removing the targeting restriction.)  I'm not saying it's wrong the way it is, or that one way is more right than the other, but it would seem more black that way, rather than the mill being tacked on almost as an afterthought.  Would it be too powerful?  Does requiring the player to get an opposing creature in the 'yard through other means lead to more fun play?  Did no one think of it?  I'm just wondering why.
His bit on liquimetal caoating angered me, red cant destory enchantments,so what? It gives an answer to the auto red hoser Leline of Sancitiy. It also answers Planswalkers that win games outright.



The color pie is very important to Mark, and to the game. Maro is a bit... extreme when it comes to what colors are allowed to do.

Red already has haste creatures and direct damage, the two best options for killing planeswalkers. I don't see what you are arguing here.

* If you're having trouble with an enchantment you can always splash white or green.
… and then, the squirrels came.
MaRo, adding my voice here to the many others in defense of Liquimetal.  Yes, the card allows red to break the color pie.  A few points about that:

a.)  It requires you to run a card that's largely Standard-worthless for every other purpose.  Except turning on Galv Blast.  So your magical enchantment killing combo requires loading your deck with blanks...  umm, no thanks?  The only person I ever saw running this combo at my FNM got creamed 1-3 every week he brought it.

b.)  It combos with wonderful cards like Shatter, Oxidda Scrapmelter, and Tuktuk Scrapper.  Umm...  woo?  Those cards are also almost equally worthless without LMC.  

c.)  Didn't you mention Lux Cannon in your article?  Doesn't Lux Cannon (and for that matter, Ratchet Bomb with sufficient counters) provide red with an answer to that pesky Leyline of Sanctity?  So why come down so hard on LMC's neck for providing a janky, 7-8 card combo-larious means of doing the same?

d.)  And isn't it about time for red to be let out of the doghouse just a *wee* bit?  Every other color has ways of getting rid of or stopping anything it wants to.  Maybe if red is allowed the ability to function like a real color, red decks will stop being quite so predictable in their design...  ohh, but wait!  You already did that - and Machine Red decks are showing that red doesn't have to be about "durr, I swing all".  Bringing back subtlety in red?!  I've been waiting for that for years!  Would be nice if you'd let it happen on, you know, red cards, but we'll take artifacts if we can get them.  A red card or two, here or there, that can stop enchantments, isn't the end of the world.  See Capricious Efreet and its failure to totally destroy the color pie with its ability to potentially kill an enchantment.

e.)  Finally, LMC is just too cool.  I am very glad it was printed in its current form.  Its ability text is sufficiently simple and easy to understand.  As a Briton friend of mine would no doubt say, it "does what it says on the tin".  And what could be more flavorful and "splashy" than an artifact that makes other things into artifacts?  I'll tell you what came out of my mouth when I opened my first LMC - the same thing that came out of my mouth when I opened my first Ashnod's Transmogrant way back when:  "Woooooooooowwwww, cooooooooooolllll..." 

Frankly, LMC is one of the coolest cards in this entire set.  Griping about how you should have nerfed it in design just shows me you're not really that clued-in to how your players perceive this set.  LMC is a casual and EDH oh my god out of the ballpark smash hit.  It also happens to be thoroughly Limited playable if not a format-buster.  Be happy that, however accidentally, you created it.   

I think Liquimetal Coating is fine as it is.

The purpose of the color pie, from a mechanical perspective, is to make players who want a particular effect to commit to that effect.  How much commitment is enough?  Usually, a deck needs to devote two cards to obtaining the desired effect, and accept a potential loss of consistency resulting from the fact that a player might draw one but not the other.

For example:


  • A deck with no Islands can run a package of Force of Will and other blue pitch spells, with no way to cast them other than exiling them to one another.

  • A mono-black deck can use Zombify effects along with nonblack creatures to get nonblack effects despite having only Swamps.

  • A mono-green deck can get a flying creature by enchanting a hybrid creature with Favor of the Overbeing.

  • An otherwise mono-blue deck can kill creatures by adding several Swamps and Doom Blades.


In each case, if the player playing the deck draws one of the relevant cards but not the other, it is much worse if not completely useless.

A mono-red deck using Liquimetal Coating and Shatter is no different.  In fact, it's not obvious that it's any better than just running Forests (or artifacts that produce green mana) and Naturalizes.

(As a sidenote, this is also the main reason why I don't like Augury Adept and Giant Solifuge, since they provide an off-color effect without having to commit more than one slot.)

And for the record, Glimmerpoint Stag is a virtual french vanilla because of vigilance.


MaRo never said Glimmerpoint Stag was a virtual vanilla creature.  He said that it was a card that worked well with (some) virtual vanilla creatures, since it resets ETB abilities.
I think a lot of these defences of Liquimetal Coating are too overly focussed on Constructed, whereas I suspect MaRo's problem with the card is more from a Limited perspective.

For instance, Fractal says: "Scars has four direct "destroy any kind of permanent" artifact cards already (Lux Cannon, Argentum Armor, Steel Hellkite, Ratchet Bomb), what additional harm does Liquimetal Coating do?" I think the point is that they are all mythic/rare, and the Coating is uncommon.

R&D clearly has no problem with artifacts enabling colour-pie cheating in Constructed at Rare: Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, All Is Dust and the like have all been tournament-quality cards. What I don't think they want is people in drafts being able to turn their common Shatters into Vindicates by using a niche uncommon. This is the whole reason those cards I listed are mythic/rare - they like colourless global answers in constructed because they are necessary as a 'safety valve', but they don't like them popping up in every draft because they unbalance the game and water down the flavour of the pie (so to speak), so they make them rare.

MaRo said that he would like to be able to change the wording of Liquimetal Coating. I suspect that he would also (while it wouldn't be his first choice) be happier if it had its current wording but was at rare.

[Edit: just for the record though, I think this is MaRo's view - I personally don't mind LMC. While I agree with his critique of it from a design point of view, I find the benefit of, for example, Red being able to kill enchantments, comes at the cost of having to run a card that can doing almost literally nothing much of the time while taking up a valuable slot in your deck. So even though I share his dislike for it, I don't find it to be overpowered, which as a Spike is my main concern.]
"Personally, I believe $50 is the roof that someone will pay for a Standard card, Mythic or otherwise." - Ben Bleiweiss, StarCity Games ----------------------------------------------------------
Liquimetal Coating could've at least said "nonland permanent". Stone Rain for (or ) every turn is not cool.
I agree that LMC does not have a great impact on constructed standard, but it should not be forgotten that it does change the way you should play on SOM block constructed. That card, along with Viridian Revel, Slice in Twain and Oxidda Scrapmelter, for example, creates a ridiculous card advantage, and this fact by itself is problematic since this card advantage is not available to other colors (aside from the spellbombs, which are not exactly a "drawing engine", but cantrips, you may opt for Trigon of Thought, Moriok Replica, unplayable blue creatures and some unrealistic combos with Precursor Golem), and once the "engine" (actually the LMC by itself) is set up, your opponent will hardly race against it.
Also, it renders the planeswalkers (Venser and Eslpeth, along with Koth in the mirror matchup) weak against spells they should not be ("tap the coating, Shatter your 5 mana planeswalker"). All that said, Mark Rosewater knows what he's talking about


This has been going in card-by-card analysis articles for a while, but I'd like to say big thanks to whoever makes cool headers with large art for each card (is it Monty?). This seems like a lot of extra work for the designer, but it makes the article look much cooler! Thanks, dear designer!

On LMC: as much as I like the card, I must admit it's guilty pleasure, since the card in its current form is wrong. It's too cheap and too versatile. And those of you mentioning other artifacts that make destroying permanents possible, don't forget that those other artifacts:
1. are either Rare or Mythic Rare (as SternJudge pointed it out) and
2. require significant efforts from the player's part (a lot of mana to cast and equip, wait for several turns, have a creature to attack, attack ublocked).

That's how it should be. If Red really wants to do something out of their part of the color pie, artifacts help, but that help doesn't ever make it that easy than it is for other colors that have it naturally.
Also, it renders the planeswalkers (Venser and Eslpeth, along with Koth in the mirror matchup) weak against spells they should not be ("tap the coating, Shatter your 5 mana planeswalker").



That is a GOOD thing. Planeswalkers need a cheap answer to keep them in check, especially now Oblivion Ring is not available in Standard or SOM Block Construcetd. Bearing in mind that cheap answer requires you to have one specific card in play and another in your hand I don't think that's too unreasonable.
"Personally, I believe $50 is the roof that someone will pay for a Standard card, Mythic or otherwise." - Ben Bleiweiss, StarCity Games ----------------------------------------------------------
I'm going to throw my 2c in on Liquimetal Coating - this card is really un-fun in block constructed since it gives the red decks some really unexpected advantages. Arrest my Hoardsmelter Dragon? Sure, I'll just Shatter your arrest. Stuck on two lands? Suddenly Sinkhole is back! No targets for Oxidda Scrapmelter? I'll smash your Venser up, please!

Definitely a mistake.

EDIT: In reply to the post above, red's "quick" answers to planeswalkers should be burn or creatures like Kuldotha Phoenix. They should not be Shatter. 

I'm ok with easy answers to Venser, Jace and friends. Having to put a basically 'dead' card on the table to combo with a removal spell that would be bad outside of scars block is 100% fine. IMO there isn't enough bleed in the pie. It used to be enough to say "green doesn't get direct damage" and put it in there overcosted once in a while. I'm glad they over-ruled him on Hornet Sting.

Liquimetal Coating is fine. It's edgy, makes G/R a strong draft choice, and it's more fun to play than Venser sitting behind elspeth tokens blowing up my infect creatures that can't do direct damage, since someone decided this set didn't need a sweeper that cost less than 6 mana (and is in WHITE).


I do agree that it could have said non-land, but I have NO problem with it blowing up PW.

I'm not here to comment on Liqimetal Coating, but rather Flesh Allergy.

I have a relatively difficult time remembering what FA does, compared to most any other card of recent printing. I don't draft, so that may be part of the problem, but I think what's mostly to blame is that the card really does feel like an amalgam of random effects. One of my guys dies, and so does one of yours, and now only you lose life-- based on whats happened over the entire turn? The card name-- which can often help pull diverse effects together-- is vague enough not to offer any help in intuitively grasping what is happening, either. I hadn't heard the term within the context of card design before, but "hot glue gun design" sounds perfect in describing Flesh Allergy. 
I actually prefer Frankencards, but now with an official term I can forget about that ever sticking.

On that note, Flesh Allergy does feel like such a card, and they have their fair share of them (ie almost every Planeswalker) as it is. But it does create the possibility of really interesting game states, I could see finding some random way to combo this into a win. In fact I am probably going to try that on MTGO. A good Frankencard/hot glue gun design (really?) can still be a great asset to players. As long as those are rare, of course. Elegance is something that cannot ever be underrated.
* I too found it funny that he complained about Coating, espeically when Lux cannon gives red the abilty to destroy enchantments with one card. (That's what artifacts do, allow colors to do things they normally can't)

That's a really good point.  Scars has four direct "destroy any kind of permanent" artifact cards already (Lux Cannon, Argentum Armor, Steel Hellkite, Ratchet Bomb), what additional harm does Liquimetal Coating do?


The difference is, none of those are red.

Artifacts can destroy enchantments. Nothing is wrong with that. (It tends to be tied to a color, like Sylvok Replica or Ethersworn Adjudicator, but there are lots of "destroy target permanent" effects in addition to the ones you found, and lots of board sweepers or partial board sweepers.) Liquimetal Coating doesn't destroy anything - it's not meant to, the designers didn't count on there being an extra "destroy" effect, it's costed wrong even considering that you have to throw in another card to actually do it, it doesn't fit the flavor - but if it did, the fact that it is an artifact wouldn't be a problem.

However, red can't. Rosewater and/or the rest of design or development feel this is important. Red can destroy lots of other things just fine, but when stuck behind some enchantment, red's options are simply to race (kill them before they cast it, kill their mana acceleration to slow down them casting it, etc.), or overwhelm it (the way to deal with a Sphere of Law is with a Shivan Meteor), or splash another color. Just like how black also has problems with enchantments (have to make them be discarded, or likewise race or overwhelm them), blue has problems with creature combat (have to bounce them or tap them down or counter them before they resolve, but in attacking and blocking, blue is in trouble), white has problems with creatures that don't attack (it can win in combat and punish attackers, but Prodigal Pyromancers and Royal Assassins will chew white up), and green has problems with spells (shroud and similar effects help some creatures, but a whole deck can rarely rely on them). None of these weaknesses are absolute, they all can be beaten even in the color by itself, but they all require either great difficulty or splashing another color.

Or at least, red normally can't destroy enchantments. But with Liquimetal Coating, any Shatter effect can destroy any enchantment. That's probably easier than they want it, mechanically and in terms of balance, and it's definitely a big mess, flavor-wise.

(Yes, I realize Liquimetal Coating is not playable in Standard. However, (a) it may be useful in Sealed and Draft, both for this and to enable metalcraft and similar shenanigans, and (b) right here Rosewater seems more concerned about flavor and stuff than game balance.)
The difference is, none of those are red.



Neither is the Coating.

Turning things into artifacts is blue's domain. Artifacts allow colors to do things they shouldn't be able to do.

So red gets acess to blue's slice of the pie.
… and then, the squirrels came.
Jeez am I ever glad liquimetal coating wasn't changed to creatures only. That would be a lot less fun. Directly after coating you talk about Lux Cannon which can also destroy enchantments in red. Yeah......so......right.......

Well anways, thanks for the article and all your guys' hard work! Smile

PS: I hope infect isn't going to turn out to be a huge mistake when we get access to the rest of the block. Please say it won't be so.
Jeez am I ever glad liquimetal coating wasn't changed to creatures only. That would be a lot less fun. Directly after coating you talk about Lux Cannon which can also destroy enchantments in red. Yeah......so......right.......

The difference is Idiot Kids.

Turning a Kid's "unbeatable" Leyline or "invincible" Bigass Monster into an artifact and blowing it away with a Shatter is a "cheap" move that "exploits" the rules.
In contrast, Lux Cannon is "cool" somehow, in ways I cannot fully understand.  I assume it's because it's unplayably slow outside of untap and counter-moving shenanigans - which would also instantly invoke "cheap" whines from the Kids.

What I don't understand, is why MaRo is specifically perturbed by the enchant-killing applications, but not the fact that it lets Coating+Shatter take down almost any creature, regardless of toughness - something red hasn't really done since Fissure. Changing it to "target creature" would still let red do out-of-pie things.
Yeah, not buying it MaRo and I'm usually on your side here.  Coating is fine.
Wow, lots of confusion about Liquimetal Coating and the role of the colour pie.

It's not about limiting the ability of what mono-mountains decks can do. Lux Cannon shows that (as do Argentum Armor, Nev's Disk, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, etc etc etc).
It's not about "un-fun" combos, or the power level of different cards.
It may (I suppose) be about rarity, and thus how often it happens in draft...

But what it definitely is about is colour definition. Making the colours feel different to each other. Red doesn't get "normal" ways to destroy enchantments, because if it did, it'd take away one of the things that helps characterise red.

Mind you, I'm with Qmark in that don't understand why granting "destroy target creature" effects to red would be much better than "destroy target enchantment".

I'm also curious: does MaRo think that Mycosynth Lattice was also a similar mistake? There was a deck getting some play for a while using Mycosynth Lattice and Shattering Spree (the Lattice even fixes the mana for the Spree).

The funniest part about his rant about LMC isn't that there are a bunch of other ways to destroy enchantments in mono red.  The funniest part is that he makes such a huge fuss about red being able to destroy enchantments, but he has absolutly no problems with green destroying non flying creatures.

Now I know people are gonna say "but green could already destroy stone golem!"  Sure, and red could already destroy artifact enchantments!  The fact that they never printed any is irrelevant.  If it annoys you this much that red can destroy my pacifism, then you should be annoyed that green can destroy your sun titan.

Was Karn a mistake too?  It allows black to destroy artifacts!

I don't see the problem with Liquimetal Coating - as far as I'm concerned, Red can have any ability if it's card-disadvantageous enough.  In this case, Red has to assemble a two-card combo where one card does nothing but enable the use of Shatter against another permanent type.  It's basically Red trading long-term resources for short term gain, which fits perfectly.

That's no better than Red spending a lot of inefficient mana or turns to do something, a la Lux Cannon.

I don't think this takes away from the flavor/characterization of Red, either.  Obviously Red by itself couldn't touch an enchantment, without help from this other artifact.  If anything, it reinforces the fact that Red can't do it alone.  It's no different than how color protection can be foiled by Blue's color-changing abilities.
Since Liquimetal Coating has been discussed so thoroughly, I'll just comment that stuff like Grasp of Darkness and Necrotic Ooze makes me think that the watermarks should have been handled primarily by creative.
Since Liquimetal Coating has been discussed so thoroughly, I'll just comment that stuff like Grasp of Darkness and Necrotic Ooze makes me think that the watermarks should have been handled primarily by creative.



IT's important that the Phyrexians have a solid mechanical basis. I'm sure as the set progresses, we'll see it more distinctly.
… and then, the squirrels came.
IT's important that the Phyrexians have a solid mechanical basis. I'm sure as the set progresses, we'll see it more distinctly.

Yep! The Phyrexians are the most mechanical group in all of Magic!
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
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These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
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Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...


  • An otherwise mono-blue deck can kill creatures by adding several Swamps and Doom Blades.



Rather than using the splash of black agrument, since it kinda defeats your argument, a purely mono blue creature destruction can be achieved with reality acid and bounce spells. Or even blue elemental blast and a color changing spell or text changing.

hurray, with liquimetal coating green finally gets a decent way to kill planeswalkers and creatures. And now green can have protection from artifacts become protection from permanents and it can use it to counter fear and terror.
hurray, with liquimetal coating green finally gets a decent way to kill planeswalkers and creatures. And now green can have protection from artifacts become protection from permanents and it can use it to counter fear and terror.



Rootgrapple

Green's the only color that can destroy planeswalkers straight up.
… and then, the squirrels came.
Mark's just overprotective of his vision of the color pie. After the last rant of his I am more and more convinced he is not actually worried about the one-offs, but in order to keep them as one-offs he has to act as if some high crime has been committed. All the man-hours spent by the rest of R&D defending cards like Hornet Sting just means that we won't see cards like that more than once every two years, or however long it takes to forget MaRo's reaction to such cards.


  • An otherwise mono-blue deck can kill creatures by adding several Swamps and Doom Blades.



Rather than using the splash of black agrument, since it kinda defeats your argument, a purely mono blue creature destruction can be achieved with reality acid and bounce spells. Or even blue elemental blast and a color changing spell or text changing.



Defeats my argument?  It's the whole point of my argument. 
And the 2010 Understatement of the Year Award goes too....
Mark's just overprotective of his vision of the color pie.



Seeing as I usually end up as a finalist for the exact opposite, I humbly accept  
Ratchet Bomb allows red to destroy anything it wants. I didnt hear him complain about that.
hurray, with liquimetal coating green finally gets a decent way to kill planeswalkers and creatures. And now green can have protection from artifacts become protection from permanents and it can use it to counter fear and terror.



Rootgrapple

Green's the only color that can destroy planeswalkers straight up.






Celestial Kirin
Pentarch Paladin
planar cleansing
scour glass
And obviously, white-black can vindicate.