No paragon for gamma world? Really?

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I can understand there not being an epic tier but playing a larger than life, world famous hero shouldn't be too out of place. After all, someone's got take down that cyborg dragon from Earth-122214.

Don't you think they should come out with a paragon book for Gamma World?
(a) Maybe they will

(b) I hope not though

(c) Because GW isn't really that kind of game

Caoimhe Ora Snow

Game Designer, The Queen's Cavaliers

5e D&D Stuff: Birthright Conversion

There are some homebrew solutions, but I'm not happy with what I've seen so far -- they mostly involve gaining a "third origin," which I don't think should be the only solution. I've been playing with some prestige class/paragon path-style solutions, but right now I've only got class names and some general ideas of what they should be able to do.
I would have to say, based on the two expansions listed, they might release paragon with famine in far-go and epic in legion of gold...Just a hunch since it would make some sense to do it that way. But then again, the designers of this version don't really care about what makes sense, it's all hilarity to them.
@ExcalibursZone

 
I would have to say, based on the two expansions listed, they might release paragon with famine in far-go and epic in legion of gold...Just a hunch since it would make some sense to do it that way. But then again, the designers of this version don't really care about what makes sense, it's all hilarity to them.


I don't think you've read the solicits carefully:
"Famine in Far-Go" is a D&D Gamma World adventure for five 3rd-level characters. By the adventure's end, the characters should be 6th level.


They wouldn't introduce levels 11 to 20 and then give you a 3rd to 6th level adventure.

Caoimhe Ora Snow

Game Designer, The Queen's Cavaliers

5e D&D Stuff: Birthright Conversion

Don't you think they should come out with a paragon book for Gamma World?

Once the currently known products are out, sure.  I still remember fondly the days of that crazy module series where you were constructing a spaceship, not to mention such epic monsters as the ?Boodan? (not sure if I recall the spelling) which was a dragon sized flying squirrel that shot lightning from its eyes and breathed out giant acidic phlem-balls.  I'm serious, this thing was statted out in an old school module. One of my favorite things ever.

Until then you can probably just make up continued level progression easy enough.  Just throwing an outline out for giggles I'd see something like:

- - - - -

   11,500xp : 11th : Select 1 (50% chance to ignore alpha flux / Alpha flux on natural 1-2)
   13,500xp : 12th : +2 to one attribute
   15,500xp : 13th : Reroll one miss per day (till extended rest)
   17,500xp : 14th : Fourth Alpha Mutation
   19,500xp : 15th : +2 to one attribute
   22,000xp : 16th : Reroll one failed saving throw per encounter
   24,500xp : 17th : Double the overcharge chance bonus from primary origin
   27,000xp : 18th : +2 to one attribute
   29,500xp : 19th : Declare a normal hit critical once per day (till extended rest)
   32,500xp : 20th : Second Uber feature

All normal impact of levels (modifiers, 5 hp each advance, etc) would apply.

House rules that estabish card rarity ratios in the player's alpha deck should probably also be relaxed a little for a character this high, so rather then the 4:2:1 Common:Uncommon:Rare ratio most seem to use, it could be 3:2:2.

- - - - -

Of course you'll need much nastier monsters...


Of course you'll need much nastier monsters...



Which D&D MMs & MVs have in spades. Good idea. But IMO we gonna need more powers. So I think some kind of 3d paragon origin (theme) would be great.
Nice chart, Serpine!

As far as high level characters go, perhaps I'm biased by my OD&D roots but I prefer low-to-mid level characters anyway. I guess for me it comes down in part to party size. If we have a one-to-one GM to player ratio (or maybe 2:1) then high level characters become interesting, but I run a campaign for a game group of six players and very quickly the group becomes too powerful if each character has too many levels.

Also, while D&D is a game of heroes GW is a game of survival. High level characters tend to be such that survival is not much of an issue anymore. Low level characters continually fear for their lives. As such, GW seems to fit the low-level model better than the high-level model.

Just my opinion.

That being said, if WotC put out a high-level book I'd probably buy one just to see what the did with the rules. But I probably wouldn't use it much.

Marv (Finarvyn) Master of Mutants (MA and GW) Playing 5E D&D and liking it! OD&D player since 1975

So I think some kind of 3d paragon origin (theme) would be great.

I sort of based parts of my chart to be "paragon origin" powers of a generic "Wasteland Survivor/Mad Max" sort of character (the stuff around 11th, 13th, 16th, 19th specifically).  So swapping out those levels based on other themes (Mad Scientist, Mutated Horror, New Cryptic Alliance Founder, etc) would be a thought... 
I'd be happy with a mount or a companion to bring the power level up. 

There's nothing like a Brutorz to make characters that much tougher.  
In 30+ years of DnD I have never had a character above 11 level.  I just don't see 10+ character levels as essential for me or the way I tend to play rpgs. 
There's nothing like a Brutorz to make characters that much tougher.  

I've always been fond of riding podogs myself...  Though pinetos are great to get reactions from the sensitive ("Wouldn't sitting on that hurt?")

Really, any kind of mount would be cool - even a motorcycle or some weird area 52 hover-board. Man, mounts are more exiting than feats now.


Off to experiment! 
i just wanted to say that in order to need paragon paths, you would first need 11th through 20 levels.
I'd be happy with 5 levels of 'UBER' at 11th - but that's just me. 
I can understand there not being an epic tier

Rifts?
Gammarauders?

In 30+ years of DnD I have never had a character above 11 level.  I just don't see 10+ character levels as essential for me or the way I tend to play rpgs. 

I can certainly understand that, expecially given how D&D played from 0e through 3.5, but in 4e, levels 11-20 actually work.   Epic I'm not so sure about....

11-20 Gamma World wouldn't be entirely out of line.  If you wanted to evoke the classic feel, though, it'd make sense to make the latter levels about something other than you mutant origin.  Like a 'class.'  Or mastering Omega tech.

Thematically, I could see the Tiers breaking down like this:

Heroic:  Surviving and exploring Gamma Terra, collecting Omega Tech, Alpha fluxing all the time.

Paragon:  Stabilized mutations, mastering Omega Tech, getting involved in the machinations of Cryptic Alliances, founding/saving/re-building settlements and cities.

Epic:  Traveling and 'stabilizing' or separating world-lines, possibly leading to un-doing some of the damage of the Big Mistake. 

 

 

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In 30+ years of DnD I have never had a character above 11 level.  I just don't see 10+ character levels as essential for me or the way I tend to play rpgs. 

I can certainly understand that, expecially given how D&D played from 0e through 3.5, but in 4e, levels 11-20 actually work.   Epic I'm not so sure about....


4e is the first edition I actually thought about a campaign beyond 10th level, even want to try epic.



11-20 Gamma World wouldn't be entirely out of line.  If you wanted to evoke the classic feel, though, it'd make sense to make the latter levels about something other than you mutant origin.  Like a 'class.'  Or mastering Omega tech.
...


That is how I saw paragon Gamma World working, something like a paragon path, focusing the Pcs role in the world, i.e. archeologist, gamma warrior, Ishtar Revivalist, Lightning Rod, rogue, Xi conquerer, pyromancer, etc.
That is how I saw paragon Gamma World working, something like a paragon path, focusing the Pcs role in the world, i.e. archeologist, gamma warrior, Ishtar Revivalist, Lightning Rod, rogue, Xi conquerer, pyromancer, etc.



I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Of course, I will be feverishly putting together my own paragon paths now.  Great Idea!

The advancement patterns for Origins are obviously different from 4e classes, presumably the same would be true of hypothetical GW PPs.  Any ideas?


Five levels or 10? 
Maybe:

11th:  Action Point, Paragon at-will 

12th:  Action Point enhancement

13th:  Paragon Utility

14th:  Special ability

15th:  Paragon Encounter


That's actually keeping it pretty close to an origin...



[spoiler="Examiner"]

Examiner



You are skilled in deciphering the knowledge and mastering the artifacts of The Ancients and of other woldlines.  Your mastery of Omega Tech has brought you renown.

Requirement:  You must have a bonus with Mechanics or Science and a minimum 16 INT.
Action Point (level 11): 
Your adventuring exerience lets you act decisively in difficult situations.  1/encounter you can take an extra standard action.
Exerience (level 11):  You gain +4 with Science and Mechanics
Save Bonus (level 11):  You gain a +1 to REF and WILL.
Omega Action (level 11):  When you spend an action point to use Omega Tech, that use does not count for this encounter - so you can use an Omega Tech card that you have already tapped this encounter, or use an Omega Tech card without tapping it, so you don't need to make an Omega Charge Check at the end of the encounter for that card (unless you subsequently use it, of course).
Refurbish (level 14):   At the end of an Extended Rest you can choose an Omega Tech item you have Salvaged and restore it to Charged condition.  When you later fail your Omega Charge Check with this item, you can Salvage it, again.

Omega Proficiency  (Examiner at-will attack 11)

You have learned the proper use of ancient weapons, which others find intimidating.
At Will *  Weapon
Standard     Melee or Ranged: 
Weapon
Requirement:  You must be using an Omega Tech weapon.
Target:  One creature, or target entry of weapon.
Attack:  INT + level vs AC (or defense weapon normally attacks).  You have combat advantage for this attack.
Hit:  1[W]+INT + 2xlevel (or normal weapon damage + INT).  In addition to other effects the weapon may have, the target cannot make Opportunity Attacks and is -2 to hit you, until the end of your next turn.

Cultural Insight  (Examiner Utility 13)
You understand the cultures and histories of alternate worldlines, alowing you to better understand aspects of the patchwork reality in which you live.
Encounter
Free Action         Personal
Trigger: 
You make a Consiracy, Interaction, Science, or Mechanics check or a check involving Omega Tech and dislike the result.
Effect:   You re-roll the check with an additional bonus equal to your INT modifier.  You use the new result, even if it is lower.

Reverse the Polarity!  (Examiner Attack 15)
Reversing the polarity of the neutron flow set up a chain reaction in the sub-etheric matrix that led to a system wide overload... naturally.
Encounter
Standard Action    Area Burst 3 w/in 20
Target:  One type of Omega Tech or terrain feature in burst, and each creature adjacent to an example of the chosen type.
Attack:  INT + level vs REF
Hit:  5d6 + INT +2x level damage.  You can choose for the damage to be untyped or to have two types you designate. 
Miss:  Half damage.
Effect:  The Omega Tech or terrain features you designate are destroyed.  Any effects they have produced, including those with set durrations or that a save could end, are ended immediately.  The entire area of the burst is lightly obscured until the end of the Encounter.

 

 

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Action Point - yes yes.

Now, off to work on Gamma Paragons. 
Gamma Paragons should not be that hard to come up with.  All one has to do is adapt some of the prestige classes from D20 Apocalypse or any other D&D 3.5 material.
I agree with the idea behing this thread, but I'd actually go further with it personally...  I think that Gamma World should have been 100% fully compatible with the rest of D&D (instead of somewhere in the 40-60% range.)

All of the "mutations" in the game could have been done as races, themes, and bloodlines (with certain mutations fitting certain game mechanics better than others.) And they way I figure it, since the big apocalypse in Gamma world was the sudden collapse of many different universes into one single one (which is what allows you to bring in D&D monsters while still being true to the story), then that means that a PC playing a standard D&D race could easily make sense (and could also be very flavorful, especially ones like the Shardmind, Wilden, Thri-Kreen, and such.) Especially since, in 4e, the Core Setting, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Eberron, Gamma Terra, and Sigil (along with any other not-yet-released campaign settings) are all seperate universes / alternate realities within the same Multiverse.


My fervent hope is that any future "4e Modern" campaign settings / rpg's are actually made to be fully compatible.  And if WotC says that it can't be done... tell that to Dias Ex Machina who developed some very awesome 4e Modern campaign setting called Amethyst (which is fully 100% compatible with other D&D products.)
(a) Maybe they will
(b) I hope not though
(c) Because GW isn't really that kind of game

This effectively and efficiently delineates my position as well.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
All the sudden I feel compelled to reproduce D&D races as origins...
I agree with the idea behing this thread, but I'd actually go further with it personally...  I think that Gamma World should have been 100% fully compatible with the rest of D&D (instead of somewhere in the 40-60% range.)

All of the "mutations" in the game could have been done as races, themes, and bloodlines (with certain mutations fitting certain game mechanics better than others.) And they way I figure it, since the big apocalypse in Gamma world was the sudden collapse of many different universes into one single one (which is what allows you to bring in D&D monsters while still being true to the story), then that means that a PC playing a standard D&D race could easily make sense (and could also be very flavorful, especially ones like the Shardmind, Wilden, Thri-Kreen, and such.) Especially since, in 4e, the Core Setting, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Eberron, Gamma Terra, and Sigil (along with any other not-yet-released campaign settings) are all seperate universes / alternate realities within the same Multiverse.


My fervent hope is that any future "4e Modern" campaign settings / rpg's are actually made to be fully compatible.  And if WotC says that it can't be done... tell that to Dias Ex Machina who developed some very awesome 4e Modern campaign setting called Amethyst (which is fully 100% compatible with other D&D products.)



I disagree entirely.  4e has far too much out at this point, and if you made them compatible, people would be trying to bring all different kinds of characters and pcs in.  As a GM the idea of a smaller self contained world excites me more.