CB Questions you would like answered

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I have already gone through the massive thread, again, and pulled out most of the questions that I could find (copied below in the spoiler block), and will be going through other threads (especially the Feature Discussion thread) looking for questions that haven't been answered yet. I will be posting them below as I puill them out and will say when I am done with the thread. If there are any  questions about the Character builder that you would like answered, please post them here or PM them to me. I have been assured by Trevor that he will get answers to as many questions as **** as he can.

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Different paper sizes? Letter is common in NA, but Europe uses A4. They are *almost* identical, but not quite.














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Copy To Clipboard/Import from Clipboard have been very useful to me for

discussing characters. Is this functionality still going to be

available?
















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I probably have 100+ characters in my CB, organized

in folders, for 3 different games, my RPGA characters, my wife's and

friends' characters, delve characters, demo characters, character snap

shots at different levels, etc. Is there going to be a limit to what we

can store in the CB, and are we going to be able to organize them in

folders of some sort?
















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1. Has the base character sheet format been changed at all from the classic CB? If not, can we see a sample of the new one?

2. Is the character sheet still customizable where we can move sections around or hide them?

3. Do we get power cards? Can we hide power cards? Can we duplicate power cards?

4. Can we still customize our power cards by showing damage calculations with multiple weapons?

5. Can we customize the weapons shown in the "basic attacks" section?

5. Can we still have "house ruled" characters? Like giving a character a feat without giving them the prerequisite?
















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Will this new online CB allow for House Rules?

For example:


Letting players take extra feats (I like to give expertise feats for free since they're just a feat tax)

Alternate Point Buy (24 instead of 22)

Does it allow point buy at all? The screenshots seem to point to the useless Essentials model.

Can we bypass useless screens? I'm an experienced player, I don't
need three screens asking me what type of character I'd like to play.


Can I create Homebrew feats? Items? Boons? etc

Will shopping allow me to add rare and uncommon items? You guys
already screwed it up in the old CB, so I'm assuming it'll at least be

that bad on the online version.
















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Will the terms of use be available for us to review? The old license,

oddly enough, only allowed character builder installation on one

computer, despite all the mentions of being able to install it in 5

places from people on the forums. That always bothered me, as you can

see from my earlier posts. =P With this change, I am a bit more

concerned about data availability/sharing with third parties, privacy,

copyright, and all those other related subjects.



Will browser support for ssl or something similar be implemented application-wide?
















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When you say "does not support house rules" do you mean:

A) I can't add (e.g.) Weapon Expertise for free at level 1 for my non-essentials character (which the current builder does)?


and/or


B)

I can't invent a new feat, call it "Mudbunny's Fury" which grants a +1

to attacks against trolls, and have it actually register anywhere in the

character sheet/etc. (which the current builder could not do either)?


Because I'm hoping it's just B and that we're all overreacting, but I can

promise you that A) is a deal-breaker for many of us who otherwise would

be OK with this.
















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1. Do we retain all rights to the creative aspects of the characters on

your servers? (I.E. We don't own all Warlords or their powers, but the

character concept of "Natasha the scarred warlord from the Underdark"

remains the property of the creator and needs permission to be used in a

book or upcoming dragon article.)


2. Do you have plans allowing

players to keep copies of their characters offline in the near future,

beyond unmodifiable and static PDFs?


3. Why was the call made to

release this version of the tool when not everything is up and running

compared to the currently working character builder? Will there be a

discount/rebate planned for current users of the product in light of

this obvious system change?














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What is the time frame for Homebrew options? This isn't a feature, it

is a basic flat out requirement. Not everyone plays ONLY Living

Forgotten Realms. DnD has always been about the homebrew. The current

Builder had this capability from the Beginning.



Are we able to have Concurrent Logins? (i.e. could I be logged into the builder twice?)



What is the time frame to have an export capability so that we can make our

own backups of our characters? I do not like the idea of depending on

WOTC to backup my characters?



What is the restore process and time frame for data recovery?



How frequently will character data be backuped?



I currently use the CB offline because my store does not have internet access, so this seriously sucks.

What is the time frame to have access to your at least view access to your characters after your subscription expires?



What is the Scheduled downtime for the new Builder? What is the

backup/Business continuation plan for the product? We are paying for

access to this content and any outage is a direct loss to the customers.



I understand that Dark Sun the complete System Changes that were made in

Essentials are difficult. But why completely abandon a program that was

working for 95%+ of all of the other content and options in favor of a

program that is much more limited than the current one?


Why not

run the two concurrently until at least the January update? To allow

yourselves more time to finish the product before making this the only

option for ALL new content?



Will there be a pricing drop for the

Subscription (Monthly, Yearly ect.) since we have a less tangible

product than before? Also will there be a new programs for CB Builder

ONLY access?

Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Cathak
Will the character builder include mounts?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
How much bandwidth will it take to run smoothly?  Can a group of six people with six subcriptions all be logged on at once through a home wifi network running on one DSL line and use it at once without any trouble?
Stamhaven

Do you use Iplay4e and InCombat for inspiration on character sheet wrangling layout and functionality?  For me and my group (about 6 other subscribers) those are close to ideal, with the exception of more flexibility for wizard style classes where you want to be able to "hide" certain powers like wizard inactive spells in their spellbook.  But aside from that one piece of funtionality they have mobile web supported formats, agile layout for deciding what to do on any given round and tracking all of the math, conditions and such is a sinch with InCombat.  CB char sheets have always been far too lengthy to be practical at the table.  Many of the folks in my group only keep their subscriptions to keep those two independent tools fully functional.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
My big question is this.  We know that some options will only be available for some character types, i.e. only Dark Sun Characters will have themes available to them.  However, how extensive will this be?  Will I be able to have Dragonmarks in my Dark Sun Campaign or a Spellscar on an Eberron character?

For that matter, how locked in are the magic items and boons to specific campaigns?  If a Magic Item appears in the Dark Sun campaign guide, for instance, will it be available to non Dark Sun Characters?
tvar1

What do the power cards look like?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Will there be any SLA they'll give us on that online service.

People definitely could live with announced and regular downtimes, but just saying: "nah, it won't be an issue" is nothing to hold them against. a definitive SLA like: generally available, except for thursday 10-12 would go a long way in increasing trust or making paybacks for service outages a lot easier to handle. EVERY reliable software company has some form of SLA if they offer a service, that's what it's all about anyway.
Here be dragons: IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cydyvkj/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/c54g6ac/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/csw6fhj/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cbxbgmp/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cz7v5bd/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/ccg9eld/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/c8szhnn/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cp68b5u/.gif)
56767308 wrote:
Sadly, I don't think this has anything to do with wanting Next to be a great game. It has to do with wanting Next to determine who won the Edition War. [...] For those of us who just want D&D Next to be a good game, this is getting to be a real drag.
57870548 wrote:
I think I figured it out. This program is a character builder, not a character builder. It teaches patience, empathy, and tolerance. All most excellent character traits.
Ichnocys

Is there a limit to how many characters we can have stored online?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
franzel_mt

  • Are rituals and martial practices accessible for all characters?

  • I know that HotFK content will not be included in the Nov 16th delivery but is the DM kit content going to be included?

  • Have you been given information from dev that reclassifies old magic items into the new common/uncommon/rare system or is everything old still just uncommon in CB/Compendium?

  • Will Essentials classed characters have access to the full gamut of options from 4e? 
    • I am assuming (read: hoping) that an Essentials rogue/thief will be able to take the Backstab feat from PHB1 and Martial Practices from MP2 if he/she wants to.  Is that right?

    • It also sounds like if that character wasn't made in the Eberron campaign setting, for example, then he/she won't have access to dragonmarks, i.e. the only options you won't have access to are campaign specific.  Is that correct?

    • Speaking of (possible) campaign specific options, are the feats and paragon paths from the FRPG available to any swordmage made in any of the other settings?


Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
what type of demo will you offer? will it be equivalent to the current CB with first 3 level functionality? or will it be a quick video demo or something with very limited options and functionality?

one of the great things about the original CB was that it had full functionality for the first 3 levels so you could show the demo to new players and allow them to learn a bit about the game.
Kozmolio

Will the new online character builder have the same journal function? I use the old character builder journal to track my LFR character's past adventures, gold, xp, story awards, and found items.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Blakey

Will the online CB have the concept of "folders" for organising your PCs?   If not, please can this be bumped up the priority list too?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Evilref

Does this mean I will have to print out the character picture on every character sheet, for example. Or the rituals section or... and so forth? Moving things around is one thing, being forced to print sections I don't want is another (it's not a deal breaker, just a very mild irritation).

IOW, can we pick and choose not only where things show up on the sheet, but whether we can remove entire sections?

(Forgive me if this is an incorrect interpretation of your question.)

(more info on this question provided by Alphastream, in post #95, quoted below:


In line with what BoroGamer wrote, I would like to retain the existing CB functionality to enable and disable various aspects of the character sheet. Being able to turn off certain weapon attacks, select a weapon/implement to print or not print, choose whether a basic attack would print, etc. was a big reason why the CB character sheet was tolerable to good.

Similarly, I would like to be able to control things like the size of a field. On the current CB, you can give an area like the feats list more space and have it print more information or give it less space and you just see one line of text for each feet. That basic level of control was important.

On the subject of power cards, I would like to see at a later time the ability to define custom cards. This would include some decision as to what to print (for example, whether to include flavor text, whether to include actual numbers within the power text or have a summary line that provides actual numbers, whether to mention the item being wielded, etc.). Finally, I would like to see the ability to specify a background for the power card. This would allow me to make, within the CB, something like what I currently make in Magic Set Editor:
Example power cards I made with MSE:

The template is by Daniel Rivera. The image is one specific to my PC. The flavor text is of my own choosing. The numbers are here left blank so I can pencil them in and use the card many times as I level.

I sometimes replace the "(__)" blanks with actual numbers. Usually I just write them in the two spaces below or pencil them in.

Here is an example for my warlock where I used a background created by Daniel Rivera, typed in the power, and added the values directly into the sheet:


Finally, an example item card created with a set made by a different person. The image came from the WotC gallery, cropped and added into the template.



Obviously, it doesn't have to be that custom, but some ability to control what prints, whether actual values (+13 to hit) or generic text (+ CHA) print, and being able to add custom backgrounds could make power cards both more useful and more appealing.

Controlling what prints is important. Many will look at the Essentials sheet you showed and think it is too simple and needlessly states obvious well-known rules. For an intro player, it seems a vast improvement. The current CB's powers print a lot of information I wish I could hide and the cards are unappealing visually.



Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
BoroGamer

Will every sheet display a companion section? A familiar section? even when not needed?

How will it be decided what attacks to put on the character sheet? For instance, i can click into the attack workspace section now, and decide whether melee basic, ranged basic, at wills (some of which may be used as basics), or even more are displayed? Will it just be the default Basics?

How many pages does the standard character sheet run to? It looks as though there isn't loads of info in that screen shot adn youd need about 4 pages + powers for a character?

Will the DM be able to save and distribute a campain setting file as before, showing what content is and isn't allowed in the campain?

What house ruling facility will there be? Any? More than previously? Less than previously? none?
Can I say use a none standard stat distribution (say my DM allows a higher point buy for his campain)? Can I select non-standard powers?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
1. Are the Character Builder and Compendium pulling from the same database (like they should be). Will the other tools do this to.
 ie. Will one data entry into a database push info to compendium and character builder so that multiple entries are eliminated thus reducing errors. If stealth rules change, the change in the database, would allow the compendium and character builder to have the text changed instantly and if the Monster Builder is designed right it would pull the same text as the character builder and compendium.

2. You've mentioned a list of priorities, what are they? What does the staff think needs to be added to CB?

3. I think the architecture that I have seen used with Compendium and Character Builder has the great potential to be built on. Are there future projects that will interconnect and how?

4. How many programmers do you have on this project and how long has the Online Character Builder been in the pipe?

5. What's next? 
LightInfo

Can the online CB add, for example, an extra feat? I'm not talking about making a custom feat, I just want to add a feat to my character at level 1 (so I now have 2 or 3 if human) and then use that slot to take (Weapon/Implement/Heavy Blade/etc.) Expertise, and have it work correctly. The offline CB does this just fine. I don't care if it's legal in any organized play or not, I just want this feature.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere


IOW, can we pick and choose not only where things show up on the sheet, but whether we can remove entire sections?

(Forgive me if this is an incorrect interpretation of your question.)



That's a pretty good summary mudbunny. I understand not being able to move everything around initially. What I don't want to have to do is print character pictures or rituals on a fighter etc.

As an additional question:

What's the timeline on updates and will there be an issues tracker? By which I mean will we have any transparency on what is being worked on. Exporting of characters, house rules, new character sheets etc.

Thanks for this mudbunny.
MtlKnight

What about houseruled feats / powers / paragon paths? Any way to add those, ideally via a campaign setting?

I'm curious about Essentials Magic items too, does this mean every plate +4 is automatically masterwork? In the rules compendium it lists the ACs of Plate and they include masterwork AC appropriate to their enchantment bonus by default. I'd be incredibly happy if enchant magic item from a +3 to a +4 item automatically includes the masterwork boost too.

A simple way to boost magic items +ses from +1 to +2, etc, would be great, instead of having to sell the old one and buy a new one. This isn't what happens in-game, and would be trivial to implement.

I'd also like to know if there are ways to modify your HP total as a houserule, e.g. for hybrid fractional HP. My DM allowed me to use 5.5 HP for my character, as meaning literally 5.5 and not 5.

Is there a way to do this like you can in the current builder? Because if you can't customize your character I don't really see myself using this tool.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
DemonMonkey

I understand there will be no launch functionality for custom items; however, will we still have the ability to give things custom NAMES without altering their functionality?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
(THis question expands on the topic of house-ruling.)

Mock

What are the capabilities of houseruling that will bein the Online Character Builder on November 16th, 2010? Will it:

* Allow you to add a bonus feat to a character, for example Weapon Expertise?
* Allow you to add a generic "thing" (feat, power, item) with simply a name and a text description?
* Allow you to build a character with more than the rules-described point totals (for ability selection)?
* (on a related note) Allow you to build an Essentials-classed character without using one of the three ability arrays provided in Heroes of the Fallen Lands

In other words: does the new builder have the same houseruling capabilities as the old? Less? More? Or is that yet to come?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
BoroGamer

If a current character has a house ruled element and is imported into the online builder, how will it handle it? Remove the element? reject the character? how severe will the houseruled element have to be to get this response? A custom item? A higher points buy? An additional feat?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
kilpatds

From [an] earlier reply, only themes are currently restricted like that.

I'd have assumed Dragonmarks, Spellscars also were... but [Paolo] didn't mention them.

My followup question is more about Inherent bonuses.  Are they supported?  Outside of Darksun?
(Can I add bonus feats?  Powers?  Can i override access rules for feats/powers/PPs?  Can I edit the end numbers?  Can I have not-22 point buy stats?)
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
mellored

What are the current options for printing? 

It it just printing or can you make a PDF?
If you can make a PDF, can you use it to keep track of stuff (edit the HP/surges/ect)?
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
mud, paolo already showed the one sheet and said the other was essentials style. could you please then rephrase the question to 'will you have the old character sheet as an option or are we forced to use simplified ones without all of the numbers on them?'

we KNOW they arent using the old one now, we need to know IF they will put the old one on there
noaharkwv

Will we be able to upload custom portraits for our characters or will we be stuck using the WotC artwork?

Will you make the Magic item Rarity be a selectable feature?

Will the "Homebrew" setting still be a part of the CB?  i.e. Increased Stats, add additional powers (beyond the standard 2 at-will / 4 encounters / 4 dailies), add additional feats, etc. above and beyond the official rules character progression.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere

So Wizards are confident their servers can handle the load. That they've got redundancy.

Given that this service relys on thier servers, are they willing to guarentee this?

Crap happens. Servers fall over, stuff gets bugged, bigger companies have fallen victims to DDOS attacks either aimed at them, or elsewhere taking them out as collateral damage, hacks happen.

WOW for one extends subscriptions when there is downtime. Automatically.

As we've seen with the recent situation wizards are unable to do this (due to their billing being outsourced?)

What would happen if there was an hours unscheduled downtime? A days? A weeks? A months?

Would subs be extended? Subscriptions refunded? Automatically? or will everyone have to write to cust. serv every time they can't access their character? 
Also, a lot of these questions are "will it..." "can we..."

I suspect a lot of the answers to these will be "not at launch, but it's on our to do list"

In those cases some sort of aimed time frame (days,weeks, months, quarters, maybe one day?) would be greatly appreciated. "Soon" isn't much help, that could mean any of the above.

Also not a direct CB question, but when can we expect some Monster Builder functionality? Perhaps a quarter estimate?
to me, it would just be enough to see an actual list of priorities.
so i can look it up and see...

what's in the pipe?

ah, lets see, the mb's not out yet, so no chance i can get the full integrated adventure tools before those points x,y,z are already finished. is there any plan to do so, at least with important features or even bug priorisation?

everyone understands if  things are rescheduled - just noone wants to be left in the dark.
Here be dragons: IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cydyvkj/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/c54g6ac/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/csw6fhj/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cbxbgmp/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cz7v5bd/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/ccg9eld/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/c8szhnn/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cp68b5u/.gif)
56767308 wrote:
Sadly, I don't think this has anything to do with wanting Next to be a great game. It has to do with wanting Next to determine who won the Edition War. [...] For those of us who just want D&D Next to be a good game, this is getting to be a real drag.
57870548 wrote:
I think I figured it out. This program is a character builder, not a character builder. It teaches patience, empathy, and tolerance. All most excellent character traits.
What will the methods of communication be from here on out?

How will this be different from the policy you've been following up to this point? (Key points, tangible changes - not just "lessons have been learned" or "we'll be trying harder") 
Priority List +1

I would love to see what is being worked on, even if next to it is the sentence "it may be a while". I want to be excited about what's in our future. I realize that VTT et al has bit them in the butt but they can just admit that. Obfuscation is bad.

To keep this on track:
If we can use our own pictures/art on the character builder sheet, is that image saved to the database or does it know to access a folder on the computer? I would rather have the image embedded in the character sheet file, so who I send it to/give access to will see the pic to.
Why did WotC elect to not just tell the customers that the offline CB was going to be discontinued with no further updates and tell us that the new online tools was going to be a replacement for the old CB which will require an active DDI subscription to access.



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D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
ZaranBlack asks can we set our abilities randomly? manually? or are we forced to use point buy?

(he has other questions, but they are already on this thread)
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community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
GelatinousOctohedron asks: "How much bandwidth will it take to run? "
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community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
WhiteBaron asks:
Will there be any guarantees of service or regular downtimes?
A product like this should have an SLA stating when and how often it will be offline - will there be such a thing?
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Left-overs from my old list

8. Will there be a Beta Test?

9. Will there be a demo available?

20. Are there plans to offer an API?
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next question from me:

will there be any guarantees or statements on the permanence of service of the character builder?
currently, the ToS say that there will never be such a thing as a permanent application given by DDI, which would mean they could as well scrap the online CB at their leisure any time "soon".
Here be dragons: IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cydyvkj/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/c54g6ac/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/csw6fhj/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cbxbgmp/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cz7v5bd/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/ccg9eld/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/c8szhnn/.gif)IMAGE(http://tinyurl.com/cp68b5u/.gif)
56767308 wrote:
Sadly, I don't think this has anything to do with wanting Next to be a great game. It has to do with wanting Next to determine who won the Edition War. [...] For those of us who just want D&D Next to be a good game, this is getting to be a real drag.
57870548 wrote:
I think I figured it out. This program is a character builder, not a character builder. It teaches patience, empathy, and tolerance. All most excellent character traits.
I have paid for custom portraits for my characters. I own the art. If there is an upload for portraits will WotC now own them?

http://www.enworld.org

Stop by and say hi!

Why did you decide not to include the official 4e character sheet (the one in the PHB and available for download from the website as "4th Edition Character Sheets") in the character builder?  I understand having a new sheet that you think is cool and having only seen a partial shot of it I cannot comment on whether I'll like it better or not, I'm just curious as to the thought process of leaving out the "official" sheet as an option initially.
Hey guys. I don't have answers to all the questions yet, but I wanted to hop back in here with a few that I do have. 

Different paper sizes? Letter is common in NA, but Europe uses A4. They are *almost* identical, but not quite.


This should adjust to your page size. The print option links to your printer(s) and allows you to choose the preferences. I personally printed it out on a few different page sizes and it seemed to adjust just fine, but I didn’t have an A4 paper size to check this out on.


Copy To Clipboard/Import from Clipboard have been very useful to me for discussing characters. Is this functionality still going to be available?


The web-based CB allows you to copy and paste text into text fields that you could normally type into, but it does not allow you to copy the text of other areas of the builder or character sheet.


I have a lot of characters at any given time – How many characters can I save to the web-based Character Builder?

Currently, the limit for saved characters is set to 20. This is something we may increase in the future.


How much can I house rule my character?

Currently you can set your stats beyond the normal point buy thresholds like you could in the older versions of the character builder, so you can have alternate point buys. However, you’re not able to add or create additional feats, create magic items or new powers, or add more trained skills. We’ll be adding this level of customization in future updates.


Can we add and buy uncommon and rare items from the Character Builder? This functionality isn’t in the current version of the CB, but it should be in the CB if the DM wants to allow it.

You can add an uncommon item to a characters inventory or you can buy it and have it placed in the inventory. Currently there are no rare items in the CB or the Compendium, but when they are added, you should be able to add and purchase them as well.


I'll bring some more answers/questions as I get them, and I'm also putting together a larger post that focuses on the two different character sheet options in the updated CB, and some other cool features.

Trevor Kidd Community Manager

Thanks for the update.

Definitely going to need more then 20 slots if I can't export and save to my hard drive. 

So does that mean I can't have a save of my character at every level? 


I have a lot of characters at any given time – How many characters can I save to the web-based Character Builder?


Currently, the limit for saved characters is set to 20. This is something we may increase in the future.



That's terribly low. I don't have many stored and even I'm going to hit that quickly. Any idea of a time scale? 
 
How much can I house rule my character?

Currently you can set your stats beyond the normal point buy thresholds like you could in the older versions of the character builder, so you can have alternate point buys. However, you’re not able to add or create additional feats, create magic items or new powers, or add more trained skills. We’ll be adding this level of customization in future updates.



Any idea of a time scale? I'm not being snarky here, honestly. I'm trying to figure out whether this product is something i want to sub to. This kind of thing (and exporting) might be a make or break feature for me or someone else, so I could do with knowing is this something we'll see in a couple of weeks after release? This quarter? Next quarter? Sometime eventually possibly?

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