So Paolo lied to everybody.

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Paolo said that the web based tools would suplement the tools that were already out. He said flat out that the tools they have now would not be replaced with web based only versions.

Now today WOTC says the character builder, a tool already out will be going web based. So WOTC and Paolo flat out lied to its customer base.  
Paolo said that the web based tools would suplement the tools that were already out. He said flat out that the tools they have now would not be replaced with web based only versions.

Now today WOTC says the character builder, a tool already out will be going web based. So WOTC and Paolo flat out lied to its customer base.  



Can you link the quote you are referring to?

 Any Edition

Paolo said that the web based tools would suplement the tools that were already out. He said flat out that the tools they have now would not be replaced with web based only versions.

Now today WOTC says the character builder, a tool already out will be going web based. So WOTC and Paolo flat out lied to its customer base.  



Can you link the quote you are referring to?



Yes please
 

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

I am posting from my phone at work. I can't search good from my phone. I'll post it when i get home, easier to find on a PC.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Let it be known that Paolo posted that without going through the vetting process, and he was responding to a user who requested that a WotC employee come and post those exact words.  He did not select the words.  He was joking around, and interacting with the community.

He was NOT making an official announcement.

KM, its unfair of you to hold Paolo accountable for this statement when he was actually trying to maintain a presence here on the forums when there was such hostility towards any wotc employee. He should be applauded for sticking his neck out to try and be sociable with us rather than hiding inside the ivory tower of wotc.
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community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Let it be known that Paolo posted that without going through the vetting process, and he was responding to a user who requested that a WotC employee come and post those exact words.  He did not select the words.  He was joking around, and interacting with the community.





I'm pretty sure if someone asks you to post incorrect and misleading info, you're partially accountable. The current tools in no way SUPPLEMENT the existing ones, they REPLACE them.

We were made to wait months on an update, just so we could be screwed over with this DRM crap. We gained nothing, lost our offline updates, and had to pay extra for the "privlege".
Found it. Page 10 of the "are you there, PaoloM" thread. Paolo said "I am proud of the work we have done, they suplement the tools we have nicely.".  

Now, at that point Paolo knew what they were working on. Also in that same thread, alot of other people thought the same thing based on what Paolo said. That the web based stuff would not replace any of the stuff thats out.

So looks to me like WOTC misleads the customer base again. 
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Let it be known that Paolo posted that without going through the vetting process, and he was responding to a user who requested that a WotC employee come and post those exact words.  He did not select the words.  He was joking around, and interacting with the community.

He was NOT making an official announcement.

KM, its unfair of you to hold Paolo accountable for this statement when he was actually trying to maintain a presence here on the forums when there was such hostility towards any wotc employee. He should be applauded for sticking his neck out to try and be sociable with us rather than hiding inside the ivory tower of wotc.



Look, I've been all for Paolo through this entire process, but if he genuinely was just making a joke there? He failed at doing so big time. I absolutely read that as a serious statement - even with you trying to clarify, in that thread, that what he was saying might not be accurate. Wow. I appreciate him trying to keep a presence despite the hostility on these forums, but that was absolute fail on his part, not on WotC's. If it was a joke, it needed to be much better labeled as such...
So according to AL, if something a WOTC staff member posts does not have the high and mighty "offical WOTC Announcement" tag on it, then it can't be taken for fact. Its ok for WOTC staff to mislead the customers as long as its not offical.
THIS JUST IN ... THIS JUST IN ... THIS JUST IN ...

WotC Staff are people.  People make mistakes sometimes.  Get over it.

THIS JUST IN ... THIS JUST IN ... THIS JUST IN ...
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Let it be known that Paolo posted that without going through the vetting process, and he was responding to a user who requested that a WotC employee come and post those exact words.  He did not select the words.  He was joking around, and interacting with the community.

He was NOT making an official announcement.

KM, its unfair of you to hold Paolo accountable for this statement when he was actually trying to maintain a presence here on the forums when there was such hostility towards any wotc employee. He should be applauded for sticking his neck out to try and be sociable with us rather than hiding inside the ivory tower of wotc.



Look, I've been all for Paolo through this entire process, but if he genuinely was just making a joke there? He failed at doing so big time. I absolutely read that as a serious statement - even with you trying to clarify, in that thread, that what he was saying might not be accurate. Wow. I appreciate him trying to keep a presence despite the hostility on these forums, but that was absolute fail on his part, not on WotC's. If it was a joke, it needed to be much better labeled as such...

Agreed.  Execution was poor.  But I still wouldn't blame Paolo.  Instead, I place the blame on corporate policy that prevents him from just speaking openly and directly.
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He also said that they were back on schedule to provide their regular content updates. Here we are on the regular update day and as far as I can tell no regular content update. Thus, another lie.
Yeah, "back to regular update schedual" doesn't really mean "Last update for this application"  usually.
Found it. Page 10 of the "are you there, PaoloM" thread. Paolo said "I am proud of the work we have done, they suplement the tools we have nicely.".  

Now, at that point Paolo knew what they were working on. Also in that same thread, alot of other people thought the same thing based on what Paolo said. That the web based stuff would not replace any of the stuff thats out.

So looks to me like WOTC misleads the customer base again. 



To be fair, KM, I don't believe you are able to speak on behalf of the 'customer base' here, since it is my understanding you have never been a subscriber of DDI?

I think Paolo definitely made a bad call with what he said, but it sounds like it was 'poorly chosen communication' far more than anyone intentionally being misled.
He also said that they were back on schedule to provide their regular content updates. Here we are on the regular update day and as far as I can tell no regular content update. Thus, another lie.

Actually, Trevoer said they were back on schedule.
Not Paolo.
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Yeah, I'm not seeing how, "we're back on schedule to provide regular updates" translates into "there will be no more updates."
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
He also said that they were back on schedule to provide their regular content updates. Here we are on the regular update day and as far as I can tell no regular content update. Thus, another lie.

Actually, Trevoer said they were back on schedule.
Not Paolo.



Ok so Trevor lied and Paolo made a very bad call.

This isnt much better.
He also said that they were back on schedule to provide their regular content updates. Here we are on the regular update day and as far as I can tell no regular content update. Thus, another lie.

Actually, Trevoer said they were back on schedule.
Not Paolo.




They both said it, Trevor posted it twice, once "from the desk of" Paolo. So yeah, thanks for pointing out that Trevor lied to us too.
He also said that they were back on schedule to provide their regular content updates. Here we are on the regular update day and as far as I can tell no regular content update. Thus, another lie.

Actually, Trevoer said they were back on schedule.
Not Paolo.




They both said it, Trevor posted it twice, once "from the desk of" Paolo. So yeah, thanks for pointing out that Trevor lied to us too.

Yea, I may be mistaken about Trevor saying that we are back on schedule.  I can't find his quote, other than the one that was from Paolo's desk.  I retract my statement about that part.
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Seems to me WOTC always seems to have these little commucation flubs. 

I hope everyone sitting there with popcorn is enjoying the show. 
Yeah, I'm not seeing how, "we're back on schedule to provide regular updates" translates into "there will be no more updates."



1) Is this November?
2) Is there an update with the content that "should" be out (1 month lag for books, 2 months for Dungeon & Dragon) coming this month?

Now that you have answered yes to both of these questions stop complaining about the "assumptions" that you made that may or may not have been accurate.
Wizards lying to its fanbase is nothing new.
Yeah, I'm not seeing how, "we're back on schedule to provide regular updates" translates into "there will be no more updates."



1) Is this November?
2) Is there an update with the content that "should" be out (1 month lag for books, 2 months for Dungeon & Dragon) coming this month?

Now that you have answered yes to both of these questions stop complaining about the "assumptions" that you made that may or may not have been accurate.




It is November, but there is no content update.
If I recall correctly, the gist of that thread went something like,

"Man I hope this is something actually new and not just online versions of already existing tools."

"It will supplement the existing tools nicely.  AW YEAH IT'S GONNA BE AWESOME"

I can see how you might accidentally forget that the online character builder you've been solely focused on working on this entire year wasn't just a rehash of... wait...
Yeah, I'm not seeing how, "we're back on schedule to provide regular updates" translates into "there will be no more updates."



1) Is this November?
2) Is there an update with the content that "should" be out (1 month lag for books, 2 months for Dungeon & Dragon) coming this month?

Now that you have answered yes to both of these questions stop complaining about the "assumptions" that you made that may or may not have been accurate.



The answers to both of those questions are not yes.  There has been no tools update this month.  There is no update coming out this month.  There will never be an update.  They're abandoning their tools in favor of a set of online tools.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
Also, WOTC was saying that today would be an update. There was no update of the tools today just the announcement that the character builder was going to be web based.  

Another lie. WOTC needs to really get up on what some basic words mean. "soon" "update" "announcement", "supplement" "replace".

Then maybe there would not be so many commucationflubs if WOTC choose the right words. 
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Let it be known that Paolo posted that without going through the vetting process, and he was responding to a user who requested that a WotC employee come and post those exact words.  He did not select the words.  He was joking around, and interacting with the community.

He was NOT making an official announcement.

KM, its unfair of you to hold Paolo accountable for this statement when he was actually trying to maintain a presence here on the forums when there was such hostility towards any wotc employee. He should be applauded for sticking his neck out to try and be sociable with us rather than hiding inside the ivory tower of wotc.



Look, I've been all for Paolo through this entire process, but if he genuinely was just making a joke there? He failed at doing so big time. I absolutely read that as a serious statement - even with you trying to clarify, in that thread, that what he was saying might not be accurate. Wow. I appreciate him trying to keep a presence despite the hostility on these forums, but that was absolute fail on his part, not on WotC's. If it was a joke, it needed to be much better labeled as such...

Agreed.  Execution was poor.  But I still wouldn't blame Paolo.  Instead, I place the blame on corporate policy that prevents him from just speaking openly and directly.



Sorry, but this is a crock. What if someone was trying to decide wether to sign up again for another year and did so based on what Paolo said? He said it. Regardless of what wotc policy is, or who told him to say it, or if he was allowed to say it. HE SAID IT. Take some responsibility for something admins. Geez.

I have nothing against what Paolo said or who he is. As you can tell, I'm not a DDI subscriber. But all this deflecting of blame is just amateurish.  
Seems to me WOTC always seems to have these little commucation flubs. 

I hope everyone sitting there with popcorn is enjoying the show. 



Oh very much so.


The entertainment value in this latest WotC communication failure has exceeded even my jaded expectations.

can we not get some word on the monster builder, for christs sake

Sorry, but this is a crock. What if someone was trying to decide wether to sign up again for another year and did so based on what Paolo said? He said it. Regardless of what wotc policy is, or who told him to say it, or if he was allowed to say it. HE SAID IT. Take some responsibility for something admins. Geez.

I have nothing against what Paolo said or who he is. As you can tell, I'm not a DDI subscriber. But all this deflecting of blame is just amateurish.  




Agreed. As a representative of a company posting on a company forum, there shouldn't be any expectation of "I'm just posting as a user." I mean, I sympathize with PaoloM's situation and I don't have any animus toward him personally, but he is responsible for the statements he makes in line with corporate policy or in violation of it, and what he said was patently incorrect. Given that he was in a position to know what was correct, it comes off looking very poor.


Edit: I did not fully grasp the whole circumstance of Paolo's statement. While it remains a judgment call he made, and obviously his responsibility to go with the joke or hold back, the struck-out part of the comment is too harsh. I'm fairly sure he'll not hear the end of it from his cow-orkers, either.
Well, I'll be enjoying my up to date cloud based character builder soon (and monster builder coming soon too, read the FAQ, and hopefully some new tools after that), while others gripe about the state of a product they don't even use and continue to use paper while posting tantrums about evil big business and how jealous they are of the rest of us.  You know, the people who are perfectly capable of making characters the old way but see CB for what it is, a helpful tool, and the people who will simply just not subscribe if they don't like it rather than trying to start some sort of penny ante revolution on a message board and demonize those just trying to do their best to keep us informed. 

For those who are subscribers and don't like the new changes, I really do respect your opinions.  I have some reservations too, but I'm going to resubscribe.  But I bet you'll come around eventually when you see the advantages.

Furthermore, I'm going to ban all characters from my campaign that are not created in CB from now on because I hate anti-capitalist luddites.  /sarc 

But seriously, folks.  Good things are on the way.  This will lay the groundwork for many new features to DDI in the future.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

can we not get some word on the monster builder, for christs sake

Read the FAQ.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Yeah, I'm not seeing how, "we're back on schedule to provide regular updates" translates into "there will be no more updates."



1) Is this November?
2) Is there an update with the content that "should" be out (1 month lag for books, 2 months for Dungeon & Dragon) coming this month?

Now that you have answered yes to both of these questions stop complaining about the "assumptions" that you made that may or may not have been accurate.



It is November, but there is no content update.



I reiterate my question
2) Is there an update with content that "should" be out (...) coming this month? Yes.  On the 16th.

Yeah, I'm not seeing how, "we're back on schedule to provide regular updates" translates into "there will be no more updates."



1) Is this November?
2) Is there an update with the content that "should" be out (1 month lag for books, 2 months for Dungeon & Dragon) coming this month?

Now that you have answered yes to both of these questions stop complaining about the "assumptions" that you made that may or may not have been accurate.



The answers to both of those questions are not yes.  There has been no tools update this month.  There is no update coming out this month.  There will never be an update.  They're abandoning their tools in favor of a set of online tools.



"We're back on schedule to provide regular updates"

Where in there is the Character Builder mentioned or as you put it "tools update"?

3) Is there a usable character builder with the latest udpates?

I'm sorry that you "assumed" something that was not correct.  If you need something to rant about try ranting about something that's true like the quote from PaoloM.
Oh, are we turning this into a stupid semantics argument?  Fair enough.  This wasn't an update; it was an announcement.  I wasn't paying a monthly subscription for regular announcements.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
Oh, are we turning this into a stupid semantics argument?  Fair enough.  This wasn't an update; it was an announcement.  I wasn't paying a monthly subscription for regular announcements.




More semantics for you:

You were "updated" with new information.
Ridiculous.

What a PR nightmare.

Employees openly lying to the customers, draconian DRM measures, a total $#!+storm on the boards.

Really Wizards/Hasbro, this is the best you can do?

Unbelievable.

 

"What is the sort of thing that I do care about is a failure to seriously evaluate what does and doesn't work in favor of a sort of cargo cult posturing. And yes, it's painful to read design notes columns that are all just "So D&D 3.5 sort of had these problems. We know people have some issues with them. What a puzzler! But we think we have a solution in the form of X", where X is sort of a half-baked version of an idea that 4e executed perfectly well and which worked fine." - Lesp

In fairness, when Paolo posted the statement that the tools would supplement what we already have, I took it to mean the suite of tools being worked on. He was not specifically referring to this month's release and has said elsewhere today that there are other tools in varying stages of development.

The MB will be made into an online version but other tools that will supplement what we have will also be released. He therefore did not lie to us in the context of what he was posting.

Paolo has communicated all he could to us as and when he could so I think having a thread calling him a liar is extremely harsh.

I reiterate my question
2) Is there an update with content that "should" be out (...) coming this month? Yes.  On the 16th.



"We're back on schedule to provide regular updates"

Where in there is the Character Builder mentioned or as you put it "tools update"?

3) Is there a usable character builder with the latest udpates?

I'm sorry that you "assumed" something that was not correct.  If you need something to rant about try ranting about something that's true like the quote from PaoloM.



I see no announcement of any update of anything.  Just an announcement of a new tool that I'll believe when I see (they had screenshots of the VTT too).  So I repeat: there is no update.
I would have been a lot more receptive to this if they'd updated the offline tools one last time with Dark Sun. Essentials would have been nice too, but at least Dark Sun, since I bought the frigging books two months ago.
Right... that's it for my insider sub, too.

I couldn't care less if the new tool would require me to balance a chicken on my head while I log in...
I'm simply angry that they couldn't get their **** together and AT LEAST get a working Monster Builder ready for launch; or simply ANYTHING in addition to the current tools. Heck, a dice roller would have been news.

Yes, this online thingy sounds like a great idea... for the future.
But honestly, I don't feel like waiting and paying for another 12 month for anything new, or old to be updated to functional form.

It was fun while it lasted, but you've managed to scare away another customer today.

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