So, what happens if one of your rolls to hit crits and the other hits, but doesn't crit. does the whole thing crit?

#1
Oct 30, 2010 22:41:05

#1
Oct 30, 2010 22:41:05

#2
Oct 30, 2010 23:15:09

What do we have if you crit on one but not the other? The one that crits is considered a critical hit and the d6 roll is maximized. The one that hits but does not crit is still a 1d6 roll.

So in this case, you would have 1d6 + 6 + Dex modifier + 2x level + blinding with a 2-hit attack where one hit was a natural 20 and the other was a normal hit.

#3
Oct 31, 2010 5:23:25

If I was running the game, I'd make the whole things maximized if either die was a crit. Just because combat is so brutal and it's never a bad thing to let the players do what? An extra 5 points of damage assuming they rolled minimum on that second d6.

#4
Oct 31, 2010 8:55:44

A little deduction and inference can go a long way to figuring this stuff out. If you hit once and do 1d6 damage or if you hit twice and do 2d6 damage then it's only logical to follow that each hit does 1d6 damage.

Nothing hard to figure out there. If you crit on your first attack and hit with the second, the first attack maxes at 6 points and the second is 1d6. If you crit on both attacks you get 12 points. If you crit on your second attack you get 1d6 for the first and 6 for the second.

*snap* done.

#5
Oct 31, 2010 13:46:29

honestly, I was a little surprised. I thought combat was not that brutal on my guys, running the stuff from the book.

#6
Oct 31, 2010 14:56:02

You could look at the number of hits determining damage, so if the first attack is a hit, the second is only to determine how much damage is done - in which case, only the first attack determines whether the hit is a crit. If the second attack hits, and crits, that'd be a crit, also. But a 1st attack hit, 2nd crit, would just be a regular hit for the higher damage figure.

You could look at both attack rolls as alternate attack rolls on one power, so if either crits, the whole power crits.

You could look at them separately, so if one crits, it's d6 is maximized, and if both crit both d6's are maximized - the problem with that is that other crit effects would both be doubled up in the unlikely event you got two crits. So if you were 8th level and did +2d10 on a crit, you'd do 6+d6 +2d10 on a single crit, and 12 + 4d10 if both rolls were crits. At that point, you're getting awefully close to them just being two separate attacks.

#7
Oct 31, 2010 15:02:53

You could look at the number of hits determining damage, so if the first attack is a hit, the second is only to determine how much damage is done - in which case, only the first attack determines whether the hit is a crit. If the second attack hits, and crits, that'd be a crit, also. But a 1st attack hit, 2nd crit, would just be a regular hit for the higher damage figure.

You could look at both attack rolls as alternate attack rolls on one power, so if either crits, the whole power crits.

You could look at them separately, so if one crits, it's d6 is maximized, and if both crit both d6's are maximized - the problem with that is that other crit effects would both be doubled up in the unlikely event you got two crits. So if you were 8th level and did +2d10 on a crit, you'd do 6+d6 +2d10 on a single crit, and 12 + 4d10 if both rolls were crits. At that point, you're getting awefully close to them just being two separate attacks.

The rules as written stipulate that you make the attack 2 times. Hit (one attack - does not stipulate whether it was the first or the second attack that hit) it does 1d6 + ... on A Hit (both attacks - implies that both attacks hit) you do 2d6 + ...

That breaks down to me as 1d6 per hit, they just lumped it together if both hit. If you crit on one hit (either the first or the second) and you miss with the other, you max the damage for that one hit. If you hit with the second as well, since it is a distinct and seperate attack roll, you only crit on it if you roll a natural 20 on it as well.

So yes, since it is indeed 2 distinct attack rolls, you crit on one or both, you roll an additional 1d10 or 2d10 if both crit.

The rules do not state that criticals happen only per power, but per d20 roll of natural 20 or higher on an attack roll. Powers that allow for 2 distinct attack rolls therefore have the possibility of rolling natural 20s for each distinct attack roll and therfore provide 2 distinct criticals.

#8
Oct 31, 2010 15:28:42

Really, treating it like people have suggested isnt that different than say, a Close Blast power.

Multiple Attack Rolls, One Damage Roll, apply max damage to critically hit targets, and normal damage to the rest. All you're house ruling is how much of the damage gets maxed.

And by extention, as the above suggested, means you COULD make an argument that you can crit twice and add twice your crit damage on the power. I'm not sure if thats in the spirit of the design (given my assumption about what they intended), but I'd probably ok it if a player really wanted. I mean, after all, a double crit is a 1 in 400 chance, right? Not a big deal.

#9
Oct 31, 2010 15:40:02

If it were meant to function like a pair of attacks, each could just do 1d6+DEX+level, and the end effect would be virtually identical (you'd do a little less damage on a single hit, a little more on two). Since they went to all the trouble of making an exception in that sense, maybe it's not intended to work exactly like two attacks in every other sense, either?

I can't think of a lot of reasons to do it that way. One would be to make the attack less swingy in terms of damage. Which would argue for an RAI of aplying the extra effects of a crit only once. :shrug:

None of the plausible interpretations seem like they'd be a major problem, though. The only one that'd strike me as unreasonable would be ruling that both attacks had to crit in order to get any crit effect when both attacks hit.

#10
Oct 31, 2010 15:52:53

Because it's so ambiguous, any approach to the power is a house rule. But the way I'm going to treat it is that one crit maximizes the whole thing and applies special effects like it was any other power, and two crits have no extra effect because getting to apply the bonus damage or other effects a second time is too good.